The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- MasterIchiro
- RealGM
- Posts: 21,388
- And1: 6,845
- Joined: Jan 18, 2013
- Location: The Dirty Water
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
I just think over the last 20 years, the NBA has steadily trended towards team playmaking and away from isolation. Teams gradually have played more like European teams where the assist is the prize of a possession not the point. The initial reaction of the highest paid players was to organize and insulate their games, to protect their touches, points and money. This is the ball movement era. It's not just the Nets and Lakers, but superteams are losing their edge and dominance. I just think top-heavy teams are difficult to manage and not close to the guarantee they used to be. Balanced teams can compete with less talent at the top. People used to wonder how Team USA with all its superstars could lose to some foreign country. This is how. To make matters even more challenging, ball movement teams are playing both ends. Stars who only focus only on scooping up points are losing value. GM's are targeting 2-way players who can move the ball and guard multiple positions. This is the end of the iso ball era.
It has been written...
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- MrDollarBills
- RealGM
- Posts: 77,651
- And1: 54,525
- Joined: Feb 15, 2008
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
MasterIchiro wrote:I just think over the last 20 years, the NBA has steadily trended towards team playmaking and away from isolation. Teams gradually have played more like European teams where the assist is the prize of a possession not the point. The initial reaction of the highest paid players was to organize and insulate their games, to protect their touches, points and money. This is the ball movement era. It's not just the Nets and Lakers, but superteams are losing their edge and dominance. I just think top-heavy teams are difficult to manage and not close to the guarantee they used to be. Balanced teams can compete with less talent at the top. People used to wonder how Team USA with all its superstars could lose to some foreign country. This is how. To make matters even more challenging, ball movement teams are playing both ends. Stars who only focus only on scooping up points are losing value. GM's are targeting 2-way players who can move the ball and guard multiple positions. This is the end of the iso ball era.
Well said. You are 100% correct.
Yeah, you need a star to get those tough isolation buckets in crunch time but the way that the Nets play is not conducive to winning basketball. You need movement, ball movement, cuts and good IQ players that can make the correct reads on top of shooting/two way defenders on the perimeter.
I thought Sean Marks was a modern era GM, but it seems like he's just as clueless as the last ass hole who ran this team.
Please consider donating blood: https://www.nybc.org/
2025-2026 Indiana Pacers
C: J. Valanciunas /T. Bryant
PF: K. Kuzma /J. Robinson-Earl
SF: T. Evbuomwan /J. Howard
SG: T. Hardaway Jr. /V. Williams Jr.
PG: C. Payne /G.Vincent
2025-2026 Indiana Pacers
C: J. Valanciunas /T. Bryant
PF: K. Kuzma /J. Robinson-Earl
SF: T. Evbuomwan /J. Howard
SG: T. Hardaway Jr. /V. Williams Jr.
PG: C. Payne /G.Vincent
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- Mauro Pedrosa
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,630
- And1: 4,408
- Joined: Oct 15, 2016
- Contact:
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
MasterIchiro wrote:I just think over the last 20 years, the NBA has steadily trended towards team playmaking and away from isolation. Teams gradually have played more like European teams where the assist is the prize of a possession not the point. The initial reaction of the highest paid players was to organize and insulate their games, to protect their touches, points and money. This is the ball movement era. It's not just the Nets and Lakers, but superteams are losing their edge and dominance. I just think top-heavy teams are difficult to manage and not close to the guarantee they used to be. Balanced teams can compete with less talent at the top. People used to wonder how Team USA with all its superstars could lose to some foreign country. This is how. To make matters even more challenging, ball movement teams are playing both ends. Stars who only focus only on scooping up points are losing value. GM's are targeting 2-way players who can move the ball and guard multiple positions. This is the end of the iso ball era.
Fantastic post and I’m glad things are trending this way
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
-
CeltsfaninDC
- Assistant Coach
- Posts: 3,791
- And1: 2,338
- Joined: Oct 26, 2005
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
wco81 wrote:Is there an offseason thread?
Sounds like Kyrie getting an extension is all but guaranteed.
Sure you can't let him walk without getting assets back. But have we seen the ceiling for the Nets, which was probably last year, being defeated in 7 games by the eventual champions?
Because it seems like giving Kyrie a big extension limits your cap and you've traded away a lot of draft assets, though did the Nets get back FRPs from Philly?
Seems like Nets are in dire need of more length, athleticism and youth, as well as a scorer off the bench so they don't have to lean on KD playing over 40 MPG.
Also have to wonder if the Nets would have been better off never trading for Harden in the first place. They'd have Allen and Levert still. Not that Levert is a great defender or shooter but the Nets were hurt by having to play their small guards so much.
Sure you can... addition by subtraction.
If you give him that max extension then you are locked into him for the next 4-5 years. Thats a long time for a guy that changes his mind regularly, quits on teams and doesn't follow through on his obligations. Force his hand and make him OPT IN for one year with a big promise that if he actually plays and plays at an all-star level THEN he can get the big extension. When he doesn't do any of those things then you have an easy out. You now have two guys with huge deals that appear to want to do anything except play basketball.
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
-
wco81
- RealGM
- Posts: 26,968
- And1: 11,512
- Joined: Jul 04, 2013
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
Kyrie has played 105 games in 3 seasons. But they may have no choice but to give him a huge extension.
Big decisions including many role players who are eligible for new deals. Franchise guide by former Nets exec Bobby Marks.
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/33805473/nba-offseason-guide-2022-how-brooklyn-nets-approach-offseason
Big decisions including many role players who are eligible for new deals. Franchise guide by former Nets exec Bobby Marks.
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/33805473/nba-offseason-guide-2022-how-brooklyn-nets-approach-offseason
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
-
dcstanley
- Starter
- Posts: 2,405
- And1: 1,560
- Joined: Nov 20, 2017
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
MasterIchiro wrote:I just think over the last 20 years, the NBA has steadily trended towards team playmaking and away from isolation. Teams gradually have played more like European teams where the assist is the prize of a possession not the point. The initial reaction of the highest paid players was to organize and insulate their games, to protect their touches, points and money. This is the ball movement era. It's not just the Nets and Lakers, but superteams are losing their edge and dominance. I just think top-heavy teams are difficult to manage and not close to the guarantee they used to be. Balanced teams can compete with less talent at the top. People used to wonder how Team USA with all its superstars could lose to some foreign country. This is how. To make matters even more challenging, ball movement teams are playing both ends. Stars who only focus only on scooping up points are losing value. GM's are targeting 2-way players who can move the ball and guard multiple positions. This is the end of the iso ball era.
It's difficult for me to consider this iteration of the Nets a superteam.. The roster construction is just too flawed. Limited amount of wing-sized players, a surplus of guards and old centers, and redundant skillsets between their two best players. I still think pairing two or three max guys is the best way to win in this league but they need skillsets that synergize and supporting casts that fit around them. The Clippers, for example, should be the favorites next year if healthy.
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- Hello Brooklyn
- RealGM
- Posts: 17,549
- And1: 13,326
- Joined: Dec 24, 2012
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
wco81 wrote:Is there an offseason thread?
Sounds like Kyrie getting an extension is all but guaranteed.
Sure you can't let him walk without getting assets back. But have we seen the ceiling for the Nets, which was probably last year, being defeated in 7 games by the eventual champions?
Because it seems like giving Kyrie a big extension limits your cap and you've traded away a lot of draft assets, though did the Nets get back FRPs from Philly?
Seems like Nets are in dire need of more length, athleticism and youth, as well as a scorer off the bench so they don't have to lean on KD playing over 40 MPG.
Also have to wonder if the Nets would have been better off never trading for Harden in the first place. They'd have Allen and Levert still. Not that Levert is a great defender or shooter but the Nets were hurt by having to play their small guards so much.
I don't understand why you think the ceiling was last year. Last year Harden/Kyrie were hurt and KD has too much offensive burden.
This year was just a disaster from start to finish. And we couldn't recover for the playoffs.
If youre the Nets youre hoping next year is more like last year with better health. And nothing like this year.
Nets have plenty of assets to tap into for next year.
Simmons and Harris are two wing defenders. That would solve the biggest problem instantly.
They also do have some decent young prospects who didn't see time in the playoffs in Sharpe, Kessler Edwards, and Cam Johnson. I expect them to at least to be in the rotation next year.
The Philly first rounders are also most likely going to be traded.
I also think Claxton will continue to develop. Despite his FT collapse in Game 4 I was really impressed by him in the Celtics series. He did a decent job guarding Tatum/Brown when nobody else on the roster really could at all.
The problem isn't role players in my view.
Its coaching and continuity. The reason the Nets were better last season is because they had a season of playing well together.
A full 65+ games of the same roster and coaches for a full year would do more to improve this team than any roster move would.
The Levert/Allen thing doesn't matter to me. Levert is just not a positive NBA player. Allen is good and would help. But I think Simmons is better if he can ever manage to get his **** together.
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
-
wco81
- RealGM
- Posts: 26,968
- And1: 11,512
- Joined: Jul 04, 2013
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
Yeah I wasn't familiar with the Nets young players. But can you have Claxton and Simmons in the same lineup with their FT problems and unwillingness/inability to make shots other than at the rim?
One way to look at it is that although they were swept, all 4 games were competitive. But Celtics will only get better, Tatum and Brown have the chance to improve because they're still 25, same for some of their key role players like both Williams, who are younger.
Giannis is going to be in his prime for 4-5 more years at least.
So running it back with most of this roster may not be enough.
One way to look at it is that although they were swept, all 4 games were competitive. But Celtics will only get better, Tatum and Brown have the chance to improve because they're still 25, same for some of their key role players like both Williams, who are younger.
Giannis is going to be in his prime for 4-5 more years at least.
So running it back with most of this roster may not be enough.
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
-
Karate Diop
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,435
- And1: 11,389
- Joined: May 19, 2017
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
The biggest problem is that there's no system, no sets, and no adjustments...
Don't get me wrong the roster could stand to improve, but this season's results - even with all the craziness was completely unacceptable...
Don't get me wrong the roster could stand to improve, but this season's results - even with all the craziness was completely unacceptable...
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
-
Shark
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,829
- And1: 983
- Joined: Dec 22, 2010
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
Karate Diop wrote:The biggest problem is that there's no system, no sets, and no adjustments...
Don't get me wrong the roster could stand to improve, but this season's results - even with all the craziness was completely unacceptable...
This is why there's no excuses for what happened this season. If there was a system in place we should have been able to do better when KD went down. But there isn't any system. KD went down and we went on a double digit losing streak that dropped us out of the running for one of the top spots in the East.
And that losing streak started while we still had Harden. Maybe he had already checked out. He certainly was a bit hobbled as well. But we saw other teams spend extended periods of time without their best players and they didn't go on a double digit losing streak like we did. The Heat's longest losing streak was 4. The Clippers longest streak was 5. The only streaks that were longer than ours belong to 3 lottery teams (Houston, Detroit, Portland) and the other double digit losing streaks belonged to another 3 lottery teams (Indy, OKC, Orlando). Its embarrassing just how much of a leash Nash is getting. But w/e. Its clear that Nash isn't going anywhere right now. Hopefully he actually puts the time in to improve as a coach.
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- gigantes
- Starter
- Posts: 2,159
- And1: 1,097
- Joined: Dec 11, 2008
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
This is probably going to sound stoopid & reactionary, but the more I turn the whole puzzle over in my mind, the more obvious it seems that the smartest thing now would be to move on from KD & Kyrie and get a jump on the inevitable rebuild. Because as stated above, winning and sacrificing to win are clearly not their highest priorities, and they both come loaded with extra challenges on top of that.
For example, even KD, as amazing as he's been, is going to start next season at 34yo, and the problem with aging players is not just that they tend to decline, but that they're also more statistically prone to injuries. The Nets have been incredibly lucky with KD, but it's not remotely something I'd want to rely on.
After this draft, I believe the Nets still owe their '24 and '26 picks to the Rockets, plus of course pick swaps in '23, '25 & '27, with two Sixers picks coming back. If they can make quality deals for Kyrie, KD, and probably Joe, I'm thinking that should put the Nets roughly back in the bonus, far better shape than they were when Marks first took over. Whether the Nets assets are hugely valuable to HOU or not, that part's simply water under the bridge, now. The Rox aren't even in our conference, and regardless, you can't manage your franchise just to avoid benefiting another team.
I think a rebuild starting this summer would be a lot less painless this time around. Marks did nicely picking the last four rookies, and there's little choice but to see what Simmons can bring next season. Bruce (25yo), Clax (23) and Drummond (28) all need to be decided on, but the money would be there, if necessary. With the expected picks coming back from the trades above, Marks can get back to his strengths and add whatever extra talent and 'gems in the rough'-type players the scouting dept can scare up.
Sure, there wouldn't be many wins next season, but there'd be a lot more talented young guys to watch than last time around, and a chance to reset back to the core values that Marks used to preach, which was accountability, hard work, and "Brooklyn grit." I think most Nets fans could get on board with that soon enough, and we'd likely get back our national reputation for what that's worth.
Of course it would also constitute a setback when it came to star players eying the Nets as a destination, but hopefully that wouldn't be relevant for a couple years, and I think the BOS sweep helps a lot to establish that the KD-Kyrie tandem just wasn't working, anyway.
Is this something Marks would actually entertain doing, even fractionally? I doubt it. It sounds like he's convinced himself that due to a weird set of circumstances (true enough), the Nets were missing huge chunks of their payroll for most of the season (Harris, Kyrie, Harden/Simmons). Also true enough, and it's a pretty damn convincing argument in a vacuum. Unfortunately, it misses the more important issue that a team built around these two is too problematic as a consistent title-aspirant, not to mention the serious age and flakiness concerns, which will never go away.
So-- it sounds a lot like Marks believes that Nash is worth sticking with, that these two stars are still worth building around, and that quite possibly the Sixers picks will be traded to help get them a bit more help. I therefore expect the Nets to keep bumbling along like this for the next few years, sometimes coming tantalizingly close like last year, but ultimately having little to show for all the years and talent sent out the door, reaching too hard for the prize. Winning isn't everything of course, but I think what makes this so excruciating compared to the team from just a couple years ago is that this these guys aren't even likeable, nor fun to watch. That's a bit of a killer, that is.
For example, even KD, as amazing as he's been, is going to start next season at 34yo, and the problem with aging players is not just that they tend to decline, but that they're also more statistically prone to injuries. The Nets have been incredibly lucky with KD, but it's not remotely something I'd want to rely on.
After this draft, I believe the Nets still owe their '24 and '26 picks to the Rockets, plus of course pick swaps in '23, '25 & '27, with two Sixers picks coming back. If they can make quality deals for Kyrie, KD, and probably Joe, I'm thinking that should put the Nets roughly back in the bonus, far better shape than they were when Marks first took over. Whether the Nets assets are hugely valuable to HOU or not, that part's simply water under the bridge, now. The Rox aren't even in our conference, and regardless, you can't manage your franchise just to avoid benefiting another team.
I think a rebuild starting this summer would be a lot less painless this time around. Marks did nicely picking the last four rookies, and there's little choice but to see what Simmons can bring next season. Bruce (25yo), Clax (23) and Drummond (28) all need to be decided on, but the money would be there, if necessary. With the expected picks coming back from the trades above, Marks can get back to his strengths and add whatever extra talent and 'gems in the rough'-type players the scouting dept can scare up.
Sure, there wouldn't be many wins next season, but there'd be a lot more talented young guys to watch than last time around, and a chance to reset back to the core values that Marks used to preach, which was accountability, hard work, and "Brooklyn grit." I think most Nets fans could get on board with that soon enough, and we'd likely get back our national reputation for what that's worth.
Of course it would also constitute a setback when it came to star players eying the Nets as a destination, but hopefully that wouldn't be relevant for a couple years, and I think the BOS sweep helps a lot to establish that the KD-Kyrie tandem just wasn't working, anyway.
Is this something Marks would actually entertain doing, even fractionally? I doubt it. It sounds like he's convinced himself that due to a weird set of circumstances (true enough), the Nets were missing huge chunks of their payroll for most of the season (Harris, Kyrie, Harden/Simmons). Also true enough, and it's a pretty damn convincing argument in a vacuum. Unfortunately, it misses the more important issue that a team built around these two is too problematic as a consistent title-aspirant, not to mention the serious age and flakiness concerns, which will never go away.
So-- it sounds a lot like Marks believes that Nash is worth sticking with, that these two stars are still worth building around, and that quite possibly the Sixers picks will be traded to help get them a bit more help. I therefore expect the Nets to keep bumbling along like this for the next few years, sometimes coming tantalizingly close like last year, but ultimately having little to show for all the years and talent sent out the door, reaching too hard for the prize. Winning isn't everything of course, but I think what makes this so excruciating compared to the team from just a couple years ago is that this these guys aren't even likeable, nor fun to watch. That's a bit of a killer, that is.
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- Pablo Escobar
- Head Coach
- Posts: 7,294
- And1: 4,778
- Joined: May 13, 2009
- Location: Medellín
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
Brian Windhorst hit it on the head with this article. Nets sold their entire culture to Kd/world b flat and they're making all the moves.
"In the end, it seems, what Durant and Irving think is the only thing that matters."
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/33812380/why-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving-relationship-fuel-undermine-brooklyn-nets-future
"In the end, it seems, what Durant and Irving think is the only thing that matters."
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/33812380/why-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving-relationship-fuel-undermine-brooklyn-nets-future
Plata o Plomo?
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
-
NetsJets
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,600
- And1: 722
- Joined: Oct 27, 2015
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
We need to sign a shooting big to start at the 5 if Simmons is going to be in the lineup. That way he’s surrounded by spacing with KD, Kyrie, Harris and the starting center whoever that will be. Then Claxton comes off the bench. I only want to see Claxton and Simmons in the lineup together at the end of games for offense/defense personnel situations.
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- Hello Brooklyn
- RealGM
- Posts: 17,549
- And1: 13,326
- Joined: Dec 24, 2012
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
wco81 wrote:Yeah I wasn't familiar with the Nets young players. But can you have Claxton and Simmons in the same lineup with their FT problems and unwillingness/inability to make shots other than at the rim?
One way to look at it is that although they were swept, all 4 games were competitive. But Celtics will only get better, Tatum and Brown have the chance to improve because they're still 25, same for some of their key role players like both Williams, who are younger.
Giannis is going to be in his prime for 4-5 more years at least.
So running it back with most of this roster may not be enough.
I think Claxton has to fix his FT issues if he wants to see the floor.
Simmons has been a decent FT shooter in the past. So I think he can fix that issues mentally.
I think Claxton will be the traditional Center. But if we need to go smaller we can take him out in crunch time. And perhaps Simmons or KD can play Center.
Either way I think there is a need to have a stretch 4 or 5 on the Nets.
I'm looking to trade one of those Philly picks for that type of player.
Celtics/Bucks will not go anywhere.
But I thin Nets are a totally different team with Simmons/Harris and a full year of playing together.
The Celtics were a disaster last year and the Bucks were in the same boat 2 years ago. Nets have to find a way to right the ship like they did.
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- Hello Brooklyn
- RealGM
- Posts: 17,549
- And1: 13,326
- Joined: Dec 24, 2012
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
NetsJets wrote:We need to sign a shooting big to start at the 5 if Simmons is going to be in the lineup. That way he’s surrounded by spacing with KD, Kyrie, Harris and the starting center whoever that will be. Then Claxton comes off the bench. I only want to see Claxton and Simmons in the lineup together at the end of games for offense/defense personnel situations.
Warriors started Looney and Draymond all year both of who can't shoot.
Granted they have Curry. I think KD/Kyrie/Harris is enough spacing and offense. And you want a traditional Center in the lineup.
I def agree we also need a stretch 5 though. In case it doesn't work.
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- Hello Brooklyn
- RealGM
- Posts: 17,549
- And1: 13,326
- Joined: Dec 24, 2012
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
gigantes wrote:This is probably going to sound stoopid & reactionary, but the more I turn the whole puzzle over in my mind, the more obvious it seems that the smartest thing now would be to move on from KD & Kyrie and get a jump on the inevitable rebuild. Because as stated above, winning and sacrificing to win are clearly not their highest priorities, and they both come loaded with extra challenges on top of that.
For example, even KD, as amazing as he's been, is going to start next season at 34yo, and the problem with aging players is not just that they tend to decline, but that they're also more statistically prone to injuries. The Nets have been incredibly lucky with KD, but it's not remotely something I'd want to rely on.
After this draft, I believe the Nets still owe their '24 and '26 picks to the Rockets, plus of course pick swaps in '23, '25 & '27, with two Sixers picks coming back. If they can make quality deals for Kyrie, KD, and probably Joe, I'm thinking that should put the Nets roughly back in the bonus, far better shape than they were when Marks first took over. Whether the Nets assets are hugely valuable to HOU or not, that part's simply water under the bridge, now. The Rox aren't even in our conference, and regardless, you can't manage your franchise just to avoid benefiting another team.
I think a rebuild starting this summer would be a lot less painless this time around. Marks did nicely picking the last four rookies, and there's little choice but to see what Simmons can bring next season. Bruce (25yo), Clax (23) and Drummond (28) all need to be decided on, but the money would be there, if necessary. With the expected picks coming back from the trades above, Marks can get back to his strengths and add whatever extra talent and 'gems in the rough'-type players the scouting dept can scare up.
Sure, there wouldn't be many wins next season, but there'd be a lot more talented young guys to watch than last time around, and a chance to reset back to the core values that Marks used to preach, which was accountability, hard work, and "Brooklyn grit." I think most Nets fans could get on board with that soon enough, and we'd likely get back our national reputation for what that's worth.
Of course it would also constitute a setback when it came to star players eying the Nets as a destination, but hopefully that wouldn't be relevant for a couple years, and I think the BOS sweep helps a lot to establish that the KD-Kyrie tandem just wasn't working, anyway.
Is this something Marks would actually entertain doing, even fractionally? I doubt it. It sounds like he's convinced himself that due to a weird set of circumstances (true enough), the Nets were missing huge chunks of their payroll for most of the season (Harris, Kyrie, Harden/Simmons). Also true enough, and it's a pretty damn convincing argument in a vacuum. Unfortunately, it misses the more important issue that a team built around these two is too problematic as a consistent title-aspirant, not to mention the serious age and flakiness concerns, which will never go away.
So-- it sounds a lot like Marks believes that Nash is worth sticking with, that these two stars are still worth building around, and that quite possibly the Sixers picks will be traded to help get them a bit more help. I therefore expect the Nets to keep bumbling along like this for the next few years, sometimes coming tantalizingly close like last year, but ultimately having little to show for all the years and talent sent out the door, reaching too hard for the prize. Winning isn't everything of course, but I think what makes this so excruciating compared to the team from just a couple years ago is that this these guys aren't even likeable, nor fun to watch. That's a bit of a killer, that is.
Yeah I think its would be foolish and reactionary to trade away KD.
Kevin Durant is the best player who has ever put on a Net unfirom.
And hes never had a good team. First year the whole team got injured. This year Kyrie nuked the season.
You can't have an all time great player and just give up.
Like I've been saying weve seen other teams come back from disastrous situations and win.
Look at the Bucks in 2020. Look at the Celtics last year. Look at Miami last year.
A full season of health and chemistry would make this a completely different team.
34 is old but KD was still elite this year. And no reason to think there will be a big decline after a full summer off.
As bad as things are, rebuilding sucks. And what are the chances we ever draft a player as good as Durant? Highly unlikely.
I'd rather see the Nets compete for the next few years than just tank. Maybe one year luck will come our way. The best team doesn't always win.
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- MrDollarBills
- RealGM
- Posts: 77,651
- And1: 54,525
- Joined: Feb 15, 2008
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
Hello Brooklyn wrote:NetsJets wrote:We need to sign a shooting big to start at the 5 if Simmons is going to be in the lineup. That way he’s surrounded by spacing with KD, Kyrie, Harris and the starting center whoever that will be. Then Claxton comes off the bench. I only want to see Claxton and Simmons in the lineup together at the end of games for offense/defense personnel situations.
Warriors started Looney and Draymond all year both of who can't shoot.
Granted they have Curry. I think KD/Kyrie/Harris is enough spacing and offense. And you want a traditional Center in the lineup.
I def agree we also need a stretch 5 though. In case it doesn't work.
I think that we can play Claxton and Simmons together but i wouldn't compare them to Draymond and Looney. Draymond is good to at least hit 1 out of every 3 attempts from three. Simmons doesn't shoot threes and then you have to factor how bad both Simmons and Claxton are at FT shooting. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Please consider donating blood: https://www.nybc.org/
2025-2026 Indiana Pacers
C: J. Valanciunas /T. Bryant
PF: K. Kuzma /J. Robinson-Earl
SF: T. Evbuomwan /J. Howard
SG: T. Hardaway Jr. /V. Williams Jr.
PG: C. Payne /G.Vincent
2025-2026 Indiana Pacers
C: J. Valanciunas /T. Bryant
PF: K. Kuzma /J. Robinson-Earl
SF: T. Evbuomwan /J. Howard
SG: T. Hardaway Jr. /V. Williams Jr.
PG: C. Payne /G.Vincent
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- MrDollarBills
- RealGM
- Posts: 77,651
- And1: 54,525
- Joined: Feb 15, 2008
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
Hello Brooklyn wrote:gigantes wrote:This is probably going to sound stoopid & reactionary, but the more I turn the whole puzzle over in my mind, the more obvious it seems that the smartest thing now would be to move on from KD & Kyrie and get a jump on the inevitable rebuild. Because as stated above, winning and sacrificing to win are clearly not their highest priorities, and they both come loaded with extra challenges on top of that.
For example, even KD, as amazing as he's been, is going to start next season at 34yo, and the problem with aging players is not just that they tend to decline, but that they're also more statistically prone to injuries. The Nets have been incredibly lucky with KD, but it's not remotely something I'd want to rely on.
After this draft, I believe the Nets still owe their '24 and '26 picks to the Rockets, plus of course pick swaps in '23, '25 & '27, with two Sixers picks coming back. If they can make quality deals for Kyrie, KD, and probably Joe, I'm thinking that should put the Nets roughly back in the bonus, far better shape than they were when Marks first took over. Whether the Nets assets are hugely valuable to HOU or not, that part's simply water under the bridge, now. The Rox aren't even in our conference, and regardless, you can't manage your franchise just to avoid benefiting another team.
I think a rebuild starting this summer would be a lot less painless this time around. Marks did nicely picking the last four rookies, and there's little choice but to see what Simmons can bring next season. Bruce (25yo), Clax (23) and Drummond (28) all need to be decided on, but the money would be there, if necessary. With the expected picks coming back from the trades above, Marks can get back to his strengths and add whatever extra talent and 'gems in the rough'-type players the scouting dept can scare up.
Sure, there wouldn't be many wins next season, but there'd be a lot more talented young guys to watch than last time around, and a chance to reset back to the core values that Marks used to preach, which was accountability, hard work, and "Brooklyn grit." I think most Nets fans could get on board with that soon enough, and we'd likely get back our national reputation for what that's worth.
Of course it would also constitute a setback when it came to star players eying the Nets as a destination, but hopefully that wouldn't be relevant for a couple years, and I think the BOS sweep helps a lot to establish that the KD-Kyrie tandem just wasn't working, anyway.
Is this something Marks would actually entertain doing, even fractionally? I doubt it. It sounds like he's convinced himself that due to a weird set of circumstances (true enough), the Nets were missing huge chunks of their payroll for most of the season (Harris, Kyrie, Harden/Simmons). Also true enough, and it's a pretty damn convincing argument in a vacuum. Unfortunately, it misses the more important issue that a team built around these two is too problematic as a consistent title-aspirant, not to mention the serious age and flakiness concerns, which will never go away.
So-- it sounds a lot like Marks believes that Nash is worth sticking with, that these two stars are still worth building around, and that quite possibly the Sixers picks will be traded to help get them a bit more help. I therefore expect the Nets to keep bumbling along like this for the next few years, sometimes coming tantalizingly close like last year, but ultimately having little to show for all the years and talent sent out the door, reaching too hard for the prize. Winning isn't everything of course, but I think what makes this so excruciating compared to the team from just a couple years ago is that this these guys aren't even likeable, nor fun to watch. That's a bit of a killer, that is.
Yeah I think its would be foolish and reactionary to trade away KD.
Kevin Durant is the best player who has ever put on a Net unfirom.
And hes never had a good team. First year the whole team got injured. This year Kyrie nuked the season.
You can't have an all time great player and just give up.
Like I've been saying weve seen other teams come back from disastrous situations and win.
Look at the Bucks in 2020. Look at the Celtics last year. Look at Miami last year.
A full season of health and chemistry would make this a completely different team.
34 is old but KD was still elite this year. And no reason to think there will be a big decline after a full summer off.
As bad as things are, rebuilding sucks. And what are the chances we ever draft a player as good as Durant? Highly unlikely.
I'd rather see the Nets compete for the next few years than just tank. Maybe one year luck will come our way. The best team doesn't always win.
We can win with KD, but Marks needs to get back in control of this franchise. We need actual coaching that incorporates analytics and modern basketball formulas. KD wants to play ISO ball and it is clear that we aren't going to win that way against teams that have high IQ coaches who understand how the game is played in 2022. Something has to give, and if Marks doesn't push for common sense to this situation, we will never win with KD.
KD needs to humble himself and realize that moving the ball, giving, going and getting it back is what wins now.
and f*ck Kyrie, i could care less what they do with him.
Please consider donating blood: https://www.nybc.org/
2025-2026 Indiana Pacers
C: J. Valanciunas /T. Bryant
PF: K. Kuzma /J. Robinson-Earl
SF: T. Evbuomwan /J. Howard
SG: T. Hardaway Jr. /V. Williams Jr.
PG: C. Payne /G.Vincent
2025-2026 Indiana Pacers
C: J. Valanciunas /T. Bryant
PF: K. Kuzma /J. Robinson-Earl
SF: T. Evbuomwan /J. Howard
SG: T. Hardaway Jr. /V. Williams Jr.
PG: C. Payne /G.Vincent
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
- Hello Brooklyn
- RealGM
- Posts: 17,549
- And1: 13,326
- Joined: Dec 24, 2012
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
MrDollarBills wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:NetsJets wrote:We need to sign a shooting big to start at the 5 if Simmons is going to be in the lineup. That way he’s surrounded by spacing with KD, Kyrie, Harris and the starting center whoever that will be. Then Claxton comes off the bench. I only want to see Claxton and Simmons in the lineup together at the end of games for offense/defense personnel situations.
Warriors started Looney and Draymond all year both of who can't shoot.
Granted they have Curry. I think KD/Kyrie/Harris is enough spacing and offense. And you want a traditional Center in the lineup.
I def agree we also need a stretch 5 though. In case it doesn't work.
I think that we can play Claxton and Simmons together but i wouldn't compare them to Draymond and Looney. Draymond is good to at least hit 1 out of every 3 attempts from three. Simmons doesn't shoot threes and then you have to factor how bad both Simmons and Claxton are at FT shooting. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Draymond was a 29% shooter and nobody even considers guarding him. Its the same thing as Simmons. Ws would be better off if he didn't shoot those.
Simmons was also a 61% FT shooter last year and just had a breakdown in the playoffs. Which isnt far off from Draymond at 65%. He can get back to that in the right headspace.
And Looney also shoots about the same from the FT line as Claxton did last year. Who was improving in the last few months before his playoff collapse.
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
-
wco81
- RealGM
- Posts: 26,968
- And1: 11,512
- Joined: Jul 04, 2013
-
Re: The KD/Kyrie Era has been a colossal failure
Warriors scrape by with bad FT shooting. They have very good FT shooters but also poor ones so they get played off or subbed in crunch time, except for Draymond.
It may still be their downfall in the second round and beyond if they survive.
It will take a special coach to buoy up Simmons' confidence to take the occasional 3 and also not be afraid in big situations to be put on the FT line.
Because since that meltdown vs. Atlanta last year, his mental makeup seems to have deteriorated.
It's interesting another Australian was a top 5 lotto pick, has all kinds of athleticism, but couldn't make his shot work and played in the Euro league this past year. Maybe someone will take a chance on Exum again but eventually the do or die aspect of these wings seems to be whether they can be a decent threat to hit an open 3 point shot.
If they can't, they become marginal players like Stanley Johnson or Hollis-Jefferson.
Simmons is still an all-NBA and all-defense player despite his inability or unwillingness to take and make open 3 pointers. But he's going to have to turn around the narrative on whether he can be effective in big game situations if he wants another big contract.
He will still be under 30 when his current deal expires.
Maybe invest money and time on a shrink. That's not being flippant, it's been a thing for decades, you have these very athletic wings but you have to develop them to be effective shooters. I remember an old SI article about Jerome Kersey. The Blazers didn't hire a shrink exactly but they hired these people who helped him visualize becoming effective enough to stay in the league.
It may still be their downfall in the second round and beyond if they survive.
It will take a special coach to buoy up Simmons' confidence to take the occasional 3 and also not be afraid in big situations to be put on the FT line.
Because since that meltdown vs. Atlanta last year, his mental makeup seems to have deteriorated.
It's interesting another Australian was a top 5 lotto pick, has all kinds of athleticism, but couldn't make his shot work and played in the Euro league this past year. Maybe someone will take a chance on Exum again but eventually the do or die aspect of these wings seems to be whether they can be a decent threat to hit an open 3 point shot.
If they can't, they become marginal players like Stanley Johnson or Hollis-Jefferson.
Simmons is still an all-NBA and all-defense player despite his inability or unwillingness to take and make open 3 pointers. But he's going to have to turn around the narrative on whether he can be effective in big game situations if he wants another big contract.
He will still be under 30 when his current deal expires.
Maybe invest money and time on a shrink. That's not being flippant, it's been a thing for decades, you have these very athletic wings but you have to develop them to be effective shooters. I remember an old SI article about Jerome Kersey. The Blazers didn't hire a shrink exactly but they hired these people who helped him visualize becoming effective enough to stay in the league.










