Chris Paul 21-22 Thread

[falcolombardi]

Griffin in the playoffs was not a factor at all.

Tearing CP3's teammates down with absurd statements like this will not add rings to CP3's fingers or MVPs to his trophy case, nor will it erase his historic chokejobs. It just makes you look deeply insecure about your guy's legacy.

According to the CP3 fanboys on this site.


It is Griffin's fault that CP3 had one of the worst meltdowns of all time in game 5 against OKC in 2014 which may have cost the Clippers a chance to make the finals that year.

Watch on YouTube

;t=26s

that ens of game 5 is chris paul fault, but it doesnt change the fact he was probably the best player that series regarsless

clippers had a +18 net rating when chris paul played, every other rotation player but glen davis (back up) was in the negative

that series was clippers dominating when paul played and being destroyed when he sat

blaming him for losing that series is like finding a series where wilt struggled with mistakes in the last minute in 1 of 7 games and then diminishing his dominant carryjob the other 6 games and 47 minutes

[coastalmarker99]

CP3 is a choker and his countless playoff meltdowns will be the thing that defines his legacy the most when it's all said and done.

And that's the harsh truth that you guys can't seem to accept.


Nobody will care about his great series against NO.

The thing that everybody will remember about this season for CP3 is the utter meltdown CP3 and the Suns had in game 7.

[falcolombardi]

I can believe that Paul had a quad injury, but:

-- Everyone has something at this time of year.
-- No one is talking about Booker's hamstring or Luka's calf.
-- There was nothing about Paul's play that made you think he was hurt other than the fact that he stunk. It wasn't like last year when he obviously had a shoulder nerve issue and could barely lift his arm.
-- Did his quad prevent him from being a veteran leader? I don't recall him rallying the team or using his voice in huddles like his value as an ATG leader would suggest.
-- This just gives power to the "CP is always hurt in the postseason" narrative.

It's quite the fall from "why isn't he an MVP candidate?" in the RS and 14-for-14 and Luka-hunting Point God in the PS to this.

Does it affect his legacy? My brain tries to tell me no, but it also tells me that this late-career phase starting in OKC was boosting his legacy by showing the level of leadership and floor/ceiling raising that was countering the lack of PS success narratives that had dogged him. Fair or not, this tarnishes all the late-career legacy-boosting that was helping him.

So you clearly aren't here like some others just to troll Paul. So what is your explanation for his play falling off a cliff if not injury? Is it Dallas switching the matchup and he just couldn't handle Dorian Finney-Smith?

As to how any of this defines or doesn't his legacy is for everyone to decide for themselves. But I'm finding myself disturbed by the tenor of the conversation around Paul without anyone offering up any explanation other than "choker". Is that what you think he did?

there is somethingh to be said about paul passivity in game 7 and 6 tho, maybe the quad injury was ruining his shot but those were games, 7 specially, where a heroball approach was bettwr than what suns was doing

if chris paul tried to heroball the suns 25 points a half offense and failed cause his shot was shot by the injury....well, he would have been killed for it still, but it would have been better than what suns did

i am not a fan of the kobe "keep shooting" approach, but there are times for it when a team really needs you to chuck away to have a prayer and you gotta try to carry the offense in a unoptimal way

is the mirror problem of players who try too hard to heroball and freeze their team out, being too team oriented and "optimal" that you dont shot at all if is not a great look when the team desperately needs any offense

[Bergmaniac]

Tearing CP3's teammates down with absurd statements like this will not add rings to CP3's fingers or MVPs to his trophy case, nor will it erase his historic chokejobs. It just makes you look deeply insecure about your guy's legacy.

According to the CP3 fanboys on this site.


It is Griffin's fault that CP3 had one of the worst meltdowns of all time in game 5 against OKC in 2014 which may have cost the Clippers a chance to make the finals that year.

Watch on YouTube

;t=26s

that ens of game 5 is chris paul fault, but it doesnt change the fact he was probably the best player that series regarsless

clippers had a +18 net rating when chris paul played, every other rotation player but glen davis (back up) was in the negative

that series was clippers dominating when paul played and being destroyed when he sat

blaming him for losing that series is like finding a series where wilt struggled with mistakes in the last minute in 1 of 7 games and then diminishing his dominant carryjob the other 6 games and 47 minutes

Exactly. That series would have been a convincing win for the Clippers if they had been able to simply keep it close when Paul was on the bench, But they had a disastrous -34.7 net rating in these minutes with a 82.1 offensive rating. Collison and Crawford were dreadful offensively (both had 46 TS% for the series) and couldn't guard Russ at all.

[coastalmarker99]

People would have forgiven CP3 if he had busted his guts out in game seven and not waited till the fourth quarter when they were down by 40 to get aggressive so he could shamelessly pad his stats.


He had 3 points in three quarters while his team needed an offensive spark.


That's flat-out unforgivable in a game seven at home as the leader of your team.

[dygaction]

I can believe that Paul had a quad injury, but:

-- Everyone has something at this time of year.
-- No one is talking about Booker's hamstring or Luka's calf.
-- There was nothing about Paul's play that made you think he was hurt other than the fact that he stunk. It wasn't like last year when he obviously had a shoulder nerve issue and could barely lift his arm.
-- Did his quad prevent him from being a veteran leader? I don't recall him rallying the team or using his voice in huddles like his value as an ATG leader would suggest.
-- This just gives power to the "CP is always hurt in the postseason" narrative.

It's quite the fall from "why isn't he an MVP candidate?" in the RS and 14-for-14 and Luka-hunting Point God in the PS to this.

Does it affect his legacy? My brain tries to tell me no, but it also tells me that this late-career phase starting in OKC was boosting his legacy by showing the level of leadership and floor/ceiling raising that was countering the lack of PS success narratives that had dogged him. Fair or not, this tarnishes all the late-career legacy-boosting that was helping him.

So you clearly aren't here like some others just to troll Paul. So what is your explanation for his play falling off a cliff if not injury? Is it Dallas switching the matchup and he just couldn't handle Dorian Finney-Smith?

As to how any of this defines or doesn't his legacy is for everyone to decide for themselves. But I'm finding myself disturbed by the tenor of the conversation around Paul without anyone offering up any explanation other than "choker". Is that what you think he did?

there is somethingh to be said about paul passivity in game 7 and 6 tho, maybe the quad injury was ruining his shot but those were games, 7 specially, where a heroball approach was bettwr than what suns was doing

if chris paul tried to heroball the suns 25 points a half offense and failed cause his shot was shot by the injury....well, he would have been killed for it still, but it would have been better than what suns did

i am not a fan of the kobe "keep shooting" approach, but there are times for it when a team really needs you to chuck away to have a prayer

Don't buy the injury stuff. If you injured, let other healthy players on the bench have a chance to play hard...

[falcolombardi]

People would have forgiven CP3 if he had busted his guts out in game seven and not waited till the fourth quarter when they were down by 40 to get aggressive so he could shamelessly pad his stats.


He had 3 points in three quarters while his team needed an offensive spark.


That's flat-out unforgivable in a game seven at home as the leader of your team.

that is literally what i just said, the pasiveness was dissapointing when the occasiom called for heroball chucking

is fine to criticize that part

[falcolombardi]

So you clearly aren't here like some others just to troll Paul. So what is your explanation for his play falling off a cliff if not injury? Is it Dallas switching the matchup and he just couldn't handle Dorian Finney-Smith?

As to how any of this defines or doesn't his legacy is for everyone to decide for themselves. But I'm finding myself disturbed by the tenor of the conversation around Paul without anyone offering up any explanation other than "choker". Is that what you think he did?

there is somethingh to be said about paul passivity in game 7 and 6 tho, maybe the quad injury was ruining his shot but those were games, 7 specially, where a heroball approach was bettwr than what suns was doing

if chris paul tried to heroball the suns 25 points a half offense and failed cause his shot was shot by the injury....well, he would have been killed for it still, but it would have been better than what suns did

i am not a fan of the kobe "keep shooting" approach, but there are times for it when a team really needs you to chuck away to have a prayer

Don't buy the injury stuff. If you injured, let other healthy players on the bench have a chance to play hard...

thay is supposed to be a coach decision tho, if chris paul shouldnt have been playing the fault would be on monty

[MartinToVaught]

According to the CP3 fanboys on this site.


It is Griffin's fault that CP3 had one of the worst meltdowns of all time in game 5 against OKC in 2014 which may have cost the Clippers a chance to make the finals that year.

Watch on YouTube

;t=26s

that ens of game 5 is chris paul fault, but it doesnt change the fact he was probably the best player that series regarsless

clippers had a +18 net rating when chris paul played, every other rotation player but glen davis (back up) was in the negative

that series was clippers dominating when paul played and being destroyed when he sat

blaming him for losing that series is like finding a series where wilt struggled with mistakes in the last minute in 1 of 7 games and then diminishing his dominant carryjob the other 6 games and 47 minutes

Exactly. That series would have been a convincing win for the Clippers if they had been able to simply keep it close when Paul was on the bench, But they had a disastrous -34.7 net rating in these minutes with a 82.1 offensive rating. Collison and Crawford were dreadful offensively (both had 46 TS% for the series) and couldn't guard Russ at all.

Meanwhile in reality, every Clipper not named CP3/Blake outscored every Thunder not named Durant/Westbrook that series, 60 PPG to 46 PPG. That series would have been a convincing win for the Clippers if CP3 stepped up as the "Point God" he's hyped up to be instead of getting outplayed by Westbrook.

[coastalmarker99]

Do you think CP3 would have released the fact that he was hurt had they beaten the Mavs?


If he truly was hurting that badly then he should have sat out and let the other healthy Suns guards on the bench have a chance to play hard.

As it is incredibly selfish not to.

[Texas Chuck]

there is somethingh to be said about paul passivity in game 7 and 6 tho, maybe the quad injury was ruining his shot but those were games, 7 specially, where a heroball approach was bettwr than what suns was doing

Appreciate the attempt at an actual explanation. Do you have any theories why? In Dallas, a lot of the talk was the additional size of DFS was giving him problems that Bullock wasn't. But I don't see how that could account for all of it, because with all the switching Paul certainly had his shots at other guys.

For me if there is one thing I feel confident I know about Chris Paul is that he is a competitive dude. And he doesn't just give up. Now maybe he did here. We did have the incident on mother's day and maybe that shook him more than we think?

I'm just trying to get at answers beyond the clown trolling.

[falcolombardi]

that ens of game 5 is chris paul fault, but it doesnt change the fact he was probably the best player that series regarsless

clippers had a +18 net rating when chris paul played, every other rotation player but glen davis (back up) was in the negative

that series was clippers dominating when paul played and being destroyed when he sat

blaming him for losing that series is like finding a series where wilt struggled with mistakes in the last minute in 1 of 7 games and then diminishing his dominant carryjob the other 6 games and 47 minutes

Exactly. That series would have been a convincing win for the Clippers if they had been able to simply keep it close when Paul was on the bench, But they had a disastrous -34.7 net rating in these minutes with a 82.1 offensive rating. Collison and Crawford were dreadful offensively (both had 46 TS% for the series) and couldn't guard Russ at all.

Meanwhile in reality, every Clipper not named CP3/Blake outscored every Thunder not named Durant/Westbrook that series, 60 PPG to 46 PPG. That series would have been a convincing win for the Clippers if CP3 stepped up as the "Point God" he's hyped up to be instead of getting outplayed by Westbrook.

that is not how thinghs work, in reality clippers won the chris paul minutes dominantly, more so than thunder won the weatbrook and durant minutes

[dygaction]

there is somethingh to be said about paul passivity in game 7 and 6 tho, maybe the quad injury was ruining his shot but those were games, 7 specially, where a heroball approach was bettwr than what suns was doing

if chris paul tried to heroball the suns 25 points a half offense and failed cause his shot was shot by the injury....well, he would have been killed for it still, but it would have been better than what suns did

i am not a fan of the kobe "keep shooting" approach, but there are times for it when a team really needs you to chuck away to have a prayer

Don't buy the injury stuff. If you injured, let other healthy players on the bench have a chance to play hard...

thay is supposed to be a coach decision tho, if chris paul shouldnt have been playing the fault would be on monty

Monty sure has his fair share to take. 5 straight ineffective offensive, heavy TO games from your floor general and you let him average 32mpg? Rick last year used twin tower of Boban and Porzingis out of desperation, at least try big line up with Booker PG and punish the other team inside the paint.

[coastalmarker99]

The Suns were having a lot of internal problems in the locker room between CP3 and Ayton.'

Ayton was getting really pissed off that he wasn't getting enough touches in this series which explains his anger with CP3.

https://streamable.com/1pdt14



I don't see Ayton coming back next season with the Suns considering the fact that he has been harbouring a lot of anger about not getting Maxed plus being frozen out of the offence by CP3 and Booker while he does all the dirty work on defence.

[falcolombardi]

Do you think CP3 would have released the fact that he was hurt had they beaten the Mavs?


If he truly was hurting that badly then he should have sat out and let the other healthy Suns guards on the bench have a chance to play hard.

As it is incredibly selfish not to.

if he was hurt and still played when it didnt benefit phoenix the fault is either

a) monty for playing him

b) the medical staff for underplaying the issue

c) chris paul fault for demanding to play (unlikely hiphotetical) which still would be monty partial fault for letting him

a player is supposed to play or not to play when the coach and team doctors say so, if chris paul should have been on the bench the fault would be on the coaching staff

honest question, if monty asked paul to play and he refused would you be praising paul or criticizing him even more

loss-loss situation for him, play injured and be criticized or dont play/refuse tonñ play and be criticized

[MartinToVaught]

there is somethingh to be said about paul passivity in game 7 and 6 tho, maybe the quad injury was ruining his shot but those were games, 7 specially, where a heroball approach was bettwr than what suns was doing

if chris paul tried to heroball the suns 25 points a half offense and failed cause his shot was shot by the injury....well, he would have been killed for it still, but it would have been better than what suns did

i am not a fan of the kobe "keep shooting" approach, but there are times for it when a team really needs you to chuck away to have a prayer and you gotta try to carry the offense in a unoptimal way

is the mirror problem of players who try too hard to heroball and freeze their team out, being too team oriented and "optimal" that you dont shot at all if is not a great look when the team desperately needs any offense

That's really the core of CP3's issues at the end of the day. I know Westbrook gets a bad rap, but I'll never forget him going down swinging against the Jazz in 2018 Game 6, erupting for 46/10/5 while the entire rest of his team was garbage. CP3 just doesn't have that dimension to his game when the chips are down.

If CP3 and Russ could do a fusion dance like on DBZ, you might have something close to the perfect point guard.

[falcolombardi]

there is somethingh to be said about paul passivity in game 7 and 6 tho, maybe the quad injury was ruining his shot but those were games, 7 specially, where a heroball approach was bettwr than what suns was doing

Appreciate the attempt at an actual explanation. Do you have any theories why? In Dallas, a lot of the talk was the additional size of DFS was giving him problems that Bullock wasn't. But I don't see how that could account for all of it, because with all the switching Paul certainly had his shots at other guys.

For me if there is one thing I feel confident I know about Chris Paul is that he is a competitive dude. And he doesn't just give up. Now maybe he did here. We did have the incident on mother's day and maybe that shook him more than we think?

I'm just trying to get at answers beyond the clown trolling.

chris is really competitive, and he is also really perfectionist

there is a phrase called "letting perfect be the enemy of good" about people who only do thinghs that are ideal and fail to compromise/settle when it is the correct choice

i wonder if paul suffers some of it, if he was hurt he knows his shootikg is likely to be off, he probablt will shot 40% on midrange or whatever which in normal circunstances would be bad for the suns

so if he cannot shot well, he wont shot at all, sometimes being too much of a perfectionist is a bad thingh

i actually have a similar theory for why lebron was so passive in 2011 finals

[coastalmarker99]

The only possible way I can explain the Suns' choke job is Ayton having conflict with CP3 and Monty about his lack of touches.


I have never seen Monty that angry before he basically threw Ayton under the Bus in the post-game and said it was an internal problem when asked about Ayton only playing 17 minutes.


He also said this.

Monty Williams on whether DA is a part of the Suns' long-term plans: "Deandre's situation is something that we'll deal with this summer. I don't want to say anything in regards to that. James and I are going to have conversations about the team in general."

[Lost92Bricks]

Tearing CP3's teammates down with absurd statements like this will not add rings to CP3's fingers or MVPs to his trophy case, nor will it erase his historic chokejobs. It just makes you look deeply insecure about your guy's legacy.

Of course not.

But you watched Griffin's career, you cannot tell me he was a factor, come on. He has 1, maybe 2 good series in his entire career.

He wasn't a good defender and couldn't create his shot well. And he was made of glass.

[falcolombardi]

The only possible way I can explain the Suns' choke job is Ayton having conflict with CP3 and Monty about his lack of touches.


I have never seen Monty that angry before he basically threw Ayton under the Bus in the post-game and said it was an internal problem when asked about Ayton only playing 17 minutes.


He also said this.

Monty Williams on whether DA is a part of the Suns' long-term plans: "Deandre's situation is something that we'll deal with this summer. I don't want to say anything in regards to that. James and I are going to have conversations about the team in general."

the whole team looked shook and in panic, scared even

that definetely is on paul and monty to some degree