Tatum VS Luka

[Archx]

Players love reading about themselves. They see all of this talk about how bad they are and how great Luka is. Luka fans don't understand this at all. They don't understand how they are feeding a negative team chemistry that these same players haven't experienced anywhere else or rarely have experienced because so few players are qualified to be positioned as a hero in a hero ball oriented organization. Keep downplaying playoff wins without Luka and watch how his hero ball teams continue to not win championships. Luka Ball doesn't even allow for a Scottie Pippen to cover him defensively. Scottie can't shoot well enough as exposed by his time in Houston playing off Hakeem and Barkley as a failed 3 and D rather than a championship point forward with Jordan.

You completely glossed over my last point. What playoff team, in your opinion, has a worse top to bottom roster, taking away each teams best player, than the Mavs? The ONLY team is the Nuggets and they're missing their second and third best player.

The Mavs beat the Suns. The Suns were looked at by many as the title favorite going into the playoffs. That achievement alone trumps any example you can possibly give of Luka's game being a net negative to the teams overall performance.

I will gladly admit to any of Luka's shortcomings once I see him play with another all star for an entire season.

Calling him out for not doing better with what he has had so far into his career is just a clown take.

Great Luka beat an old CP3 and Booker a player he is clearly better than. History will not care. Luka is a great one right? Well he will be judged by championships. I will begin judging him by not taking a step back. He can't take a step back next season imo.

So now, CP3, Booker, Ayton, Bridges are suddenly nobodies? Best team during the regular season, hello?

I would also say that Gobert, Mitchell, Conley, Bogdanovic are also quite good players with Clarkson as the best 6th guy in the league.

You have to give Mavs way more credit than just "they beat old CP3". A guy who went 14/14 vs Pelicans few games earlier. If they shot as well as they did vs Suns the GSW series could have also gone completely in different direction.

[dc]

You have to give Mavs way more credit than just "they beat old CP3". A guy who went 14/14 vs Pelicans few games earlier. If they shot as well as they did vs Suns the GSW series could have also gone completely in different direction.

The Mavs shot the 3 pretty well vs. the Warriors. In 3 out of 5 games, they shot 40% or better from 3 and shot a better % than the Warriors in all 3 of those games.

[Archx]

You have to give Mavs way more credit than just "they beat old CP3". A guy who went 14/14 vs Pelicans few games earlier. If they shot as well as they did vs Suns the GSW series could have also gone completely in different direction.

The Mavs shot the 3 pretty well vs. the Warriors. In 3 out of 5 games, they shot 40% or better from 3 and shot a better % than the Warriors in all 3 of those games.

Yeah you are correct, averages balanced out at the end. Their horrible paint defense and poor rebounding was even a bigger factor. Luka averaged 10 RPG and the next best guy was DFS with 5.5, while their main 2 centers averaged 4.6 and 2.6.

[SelfishPlayer]

You completely glossed over my last point. What playoff team, in your opinion, has a worse top to bottom roster, taking away each teams best player, than the Mavs? The ONLY team is the Nuggets and they're missing their second and third best player.

The Mavs beat the Suns. The Suns were looked at by many as the title favorite going into the playoffs. That achievement alone trumps any example you can possibly give of Luka's game being a net negative to the teams overall performance.

I will gladly admit to any of Luka's shortcomings once I see him play with another all star for an entire season.

Calling him out for not doing better with what he has had so far into his career is just a clown take.

Great Luka beat an old CP3 and Booker a player he is clearly better than. History will not care. Luka is a great one right? Well he will be judged by championships. I will begin judging him by not taking a step back. He can't take a step back next season imo.

So now, CP3, Booker, Ayton, Bridges are suddenly nobodies? Best team during the regular season, hello?

I would also say that Gobert, Mitchell, Conley, Bogdanovic are also quite good players with Clarkson as the best 6th guy in the league.

You have to give Mavs way more credit than just "they beat old CP3". A guy who went 14/14 vs Pelicans few games earlier. If they shot as well as they did vs Suns the GSW series could have also gone completely in different direction.

You say that as if there is a single NBA championship amongst them. If Luka is who people say, he should absolutely have beaten them. People put Luka into statistical conversations with Lebron and MJ then talk about how bad the team is around him when that team made it to the western conference finals with him, and won playoff games without him.

[Kobe187]

I actually like Tatum’s game better, but it’s very close between the two. Tatum can play effectively without the ball, is more fluid, can play to the pace of his teammates, better defensively. Luka is like prime Harden, great at scoring and very effective but that doesn’t necessarily translate to winning against good teams in the playoffs as they can adjust as we saw the Warriors do when they started to double aggressively causing Luka to become a turnover machine, too ball dependant in my opinion.

[Bob8]

All highly regarded scorers in today's age have TS% over 60.

Including 37 year old LeBron who's also shooting more 3s now and has a 62% TS.

The average in the league is now 57-58% TS in 2022.

LeBron played playoffs?

What is average for points in playoffs?

Stats aren't suppose to go with recency bias. It's easy to go against my opinion now by leaning on a recent win against Phoenix, a team that looked like it sank on it's own with a 37 year old leader.

I expect this to be probably the worst time for me to argue my opinion. It'll probably be easier every year henceforth. I just feel like arguing it now because I think it's very clear and will be the mainstream opinion within a few years.

You're arguing against a player, who was in first All Nba team 3x in a row. Only 1 player in Nba history did that before he was 24 years old. I guess people, who put him there 3x in a row are clueless.

You're arguing against a player, who is avg. 32.5/9/8 in playoffs. Only MJ better with 33.4 points, but with only 6.4 rebounds and 5.7 assists, and much worse efficiency. All others are under 30 points. Majority have worse efficiency too, Giannis included.

You're arguing against a player, who lead objectively very average roster to WCF.

And the best thing for the end, he's only 23 years old.

Good luck about your mainstream opinion.

[3toheadmelo]

It's extremely close. I'm still not sure how people are coming to any other conclusion.

Luka is better on offense. He's 23 and already one of the best offensive players ever. The skills, the production, it's all there.

But Tatum is also one of the best offensive players in the league and of his generation. So there's a gap but not a huge one.

Then if we keep in mind that defense is literally half the game, the gap on that end is more significant and clearly favors Tatum.

So do you want the incredible offensive package Luka gives you or the elite two way package Tatum gives you? I dunno. Both teams are very happy with their guy and beyond that it's apples and oranges and probably comes down to a matter of personal taste.

Yeah even though I prefer Tatum because of his elite defense and ability to play off the ball I do think it’s very close either way.

[CobraCommander]

It's extremely close. I'm still not sure how people are coming to any other conclusion.

Luka is better on offense. He's 23 and already one of the best offensive players ever. The skills, the production, it's all there.

But Tatum is also one of the best offensive players in the league and of his generation. So there's a gap but not a huge one.

Then if we keep in mind that defense is literally half the game, the gap on that end is more significant and clearly favors Tatum.

So do you want the incredible offensive package Luka gives you or the elite two way package Tatum gives you? I dunno. Both teams are very happy with their guy and beyond that it's apples and oranges and probably comes down to a matter of personal taste.

Luka upside Harden comparison and Tatum has a chance to be a 6’10 Kobe....uh Kobe over Harden 10 times out of the 10.

Luka avg 28 points this year and wasn’t even top 5 offensively - Jokic and Trae were clearly better offensively with Embiid being better offensively IMO as well...

Lukas amazing but we haven’t seen a guy like Luka being the best player on a championship winning team....with his usage and his shooting %s winning big- Tatum is a bigger than normal prototype wing....Luka is so talented and driven in big games that he just scores at will...but I’m just not sure that’s going to translate into winning a chip more than Tatum will

[Archx]

It's extremely close. I'm still not sure how people are coming to any other conclusion.

Luka is better on offense. He's 23 and already one of the best offensive players ever. The skills, the production, it's all there.

But Tatum is also one of the best offensive players in the league and of his generation. So there's a gap but not a huge one.

Then if we keep in mind that defense is literally half the game, the gap on that end is more significant and clearly favors Tatum.

So do you want the incredible offensive package Luka gives you or the elite two way package Tatum gives you? I dunno. Both teams are very happy with their guy and beyond that it's apples and oranges and probably comes down to a matter of personal taste.

Luka upside Harden comparison and Tatum has a chance to be a 6’10 Kobe....uh Kobe over Harden 10 times out of the 10.

Luka avg 28 points this year and wasn’t even top 5 offensively - Jokic and Trae were clearly better offensively with Embiid being better offensively IMO as well...

Lukas amazing but we haven’t seen a guy like Luka being the best player on a championship winning team....with his usage and his shooting %s winning big- Tatum is a bigger than normal prototype wing....Luka is so talented and driven in big games that he just scores at will...but I’m just not sure that’s going to translate into winning a chip more than Tatum will

It is absolutely amazing how people went from "won't be able to dribble in the nba" to "his rookie year is a fluke, next Tyreke Evans" all the way to "he's not good enough, can't get out of the 1st round" and now "he can't win a title like this".

What happens if he does win like this? What's the next excuse going to be? I'm not arguing anything i'm simply curious how people come to these type of conclusions. Because of Harden? Or Lebron's early Cavs days? I mean.. people do evolve and teams can upgrade.

Many didn't think Tatum will be as good as he is or even the fact that he will be in the finals already this year, but here we are.

[Bob8]

It's extremely close. I'm still not sure how people are coming to any other conclusion.

Luka is better on offense. He's 23 and already one of the best offensive players ever. The skills, the production, it's all there.

But Tatum is also one of the best offensive players in the league and of his generation. So there's a gap but not a huge one.

Then if we keep in mind that defense is literally half the game, the gap on that end is more significant and clearly favors Tatum.

So do you want the incredible offensive package Luka gives you or the elite two way package Tatum gives you? I dunno. Both teams are very happy with their guy and beyond that it's apples and oranges and probably comes down to a matter of personal taste.

Luka upside Harden comparison and Tatum has a chance to be a 6’10 Kobe....uh Kobe over Harden 10 times out of the 10.

Luka avg 28 points this year and wasn’t even top 5 offensively - Jokic and Trae were clearly better offensively with Embiid being better offensively IMO as well...

Lukas amazing but we haven’t seen a guy like Luka being the best player on a championship winning team....with his usage and his shooting %s winning big- Tatum is a bigger than normal prototype wing....Luka is so talented and driven in big games that he just scores at will...but I’m just not sure that’s going to translate into winning a chip more than Tatum will

Suddenly RS numbers fit narrative better? Difficult to say anything bad against Luka, if you look at playoffs numbers, isn't it?

It's difficult to say something bad about a 23 years old player, who was in first All Nba team 3x in a row, but at least you can try. When you look at his playoffs numbers...

[CobraCommander]

It's extremely close. I'm still not sure how people are coming to any other conclusion.

Luka is better on offense. He's 23 and already one of the best offensive players ever. The skills, the production, it's all there.

But Tatum is also one of the best offensive players in the league and of his generation. So there's a gap but not a huge one.

Then if we keep in mind that defense is literally half the game, the gap on that end is more significant and clearly favors Tatum.

So do you want the incredible offensive package Luka gives you or the elite two way package Tatum gives you? I dunno. Both teams are very happy with their guy and beyond that it's apples and oranges and probably comes down to a matter of personal taste.

Luka upside Harden comparison and Tatum has a chance to be a 6’10 Kobe....uh Kobe over Harden 10 times out of the 10.

Luka avg 28 points this year and wasn’t even top 5 offensively - Jokic and Trae were clearly better offensively with Embiid being better offensively IMO as well...

Lukas amazing but we haven’t seen a guy like Luka being the best player on a championship winning team....with his usage and his shooting %s winning big- Tatum is a bigger than normal prototype wing....Luka is so talented and driven in big games that he just scores at will...but I’m just not sure that’s going to translate into winning a chip more than Tatum will

Suddenly RS numbers fit narrative better? Difficult to say anything bad against Luka, if you look at playoffs numbers, isn't it?

It's difficult to say something bad about a 23 years old player, who was in first All Nba team 3x in a row, but at least you can try. When you look at his playoffs numbers...

They actually play in the reg season but honestly Bob no one saying anything bad about Luka by saying I haven’t seen anyone like Luka win a ring....everyone saying it because we saw Harden play statically better than Luka but not win playing a similar style. In game 5 of the conf finals Lukas team was making a run but couldn’t stop anyone.

But by comparison- We saw Tatum score 40+ and play defense ON Giannis, Butler and KD...and beat them...and btw Jason Tatum is 24 years old - wow Jason Tatum is so young and keeps getting better on defense and offense - and guess what? He is the best player on a player in the finals...


Btw bob-
I think Luka is going to be a good defender next year. Significantly better. Luka has the size necessary plus the willingness. Luka has said defense is his prime focus.

When Luka is in prime shape he will move better laterally on defense and then he will be a true 2 way player. Everyone saying he can’t ever be a good defender are looking at chubby Luka and making it seem like he is destined to be overweight forever....this is where Luka being 23 is a huge advantage- I would bet Luka going to be an all nba defender when he commits to his body like all the true great wings have before him...

[Darren]

Luka has to work harder losing upper body weight. If Luka fixes the defensive issue, then surely ahead of Tatum. As of now, it's easier to build around Tatum because a two-wayed stars attract Ring chaser. This pay dividend to the supporting cast. By the time Luka fixes it, it's all Luka. Personal greatness is limited with injuries and bad rhythm but smartness and team ball triumph.

[CobraCommander]

It's extremely close. I'm still not sure how people are coming to any other conclusion.

Luka is better on offense. He's 23 and already one of the best offensive players ever. The skills, the production, it's all there.

But Tatum is also one of the best offensive players in the league and of his generation. So there's a gap but not a huge one.

Then if we keep in mind that defense is literally half the game, the gap on that end is more significant and clearly favors Tatum.

So do you want the incredible offensive package Luka gives you or the elite two way package Tatum gives you? I dunno. Both teams are very happy with their guy and beyond that it's apples and oranges and probably comes down to a matter of personal taste.

Luka upside Harden comparison and Tatum has a chance to be a 6’10 Kobe....uh Kobe over Harden 10 times out of the 10.

Luka avg 28 points this year and wasn’t even top 5 offensively - Jokic and Trae were clearly better offensively with Embiid being better offensively IMO as well...

Lukas amazing but we haven’t seen a guy like Luka being the best player on a championship winning team....with his usage and his shooting %s winning big- Tatum is a bigger than normal prototype wing....Luka is so talented and driven in big games that he just scores at will...but I’m just not sure that’s going to translate into winning a chip more than Tatum will

It is absolutely amazing how people went from "won't be able to dribble in the nba" to "his rookie year is a fluke, next Tyreke Evans" all the way to "he's not good enough, can't get out of the 1st round" and now "he can't win a title like this".

What happens if he does win like this? What's the next excuse going to be? I'm not arguing anything i'm simply curious how people come to these type of conclusions. Because of Harden? Or Lebron's early Cavs days? I mean.. people do evolve and teams can upgrade.

Many didn't think Tatum will be as good as he is or even the fact that he will be in the finals already this year, but here we are.

Arch I never said any of those things...Luka like every other 6’8 nba wing can write their own story. Luka won’t be better than Tatum to me if all Luka does is play great offense when Tatum can give you 40 and also defend against Luka, KD, Harden, butler and Giannis...

Luka said he going to be in shape next year and is committed to defense - when 23 year old Luka does that I think it will be a fairer comparison to 24 year old Tatum.

No excuses from me- but why would I say a star that plays one side of the ball at a high level is better than a star player that plays both sides of the ball at a all nba 1st team level?

Just cause you love Luka doesn’t mean that Tatum isn’t better than him...if Tatum gets a ring this year I don’t think there will be a question who is the better player

[jumblin]

Prior to this year I def would have said Luka.

But Luka has let himself go and looks like a fat guy waddling around the park now, where Tatum has vastly improved both his body and playmaking skills, which was the glaring weakness in his game.

To me you gotta question the priorities of guy as young as Luka who has let his body go like that.

[Pennebaker]

Jayson Tatum is more of a piece whereas Luka is a flat out superstar. If Luka was on the Celtics, Tatum would be the 2nd option.

So I don't see the Celtics as being led by Tatum. They're more led by committee.

[SeanieWard]

This is a good comparison. It's close but Luka is better to me. Tatum is much more athletic and a better defender but Luka's feel for the game is up there with LeBron. It's elite. He's a better iso player than Tatum to me, a much better passer, better rebounder, more clutch, and more consistent

[Bob8]

Luka upside Harden comparison and Tatum has a chance to be a 6’10 Kobe....uh Kobe over Harden 10 times out of the 10.

Luka avg 28 points this year and wasn’t even top 5 offensively - Jokic and Trae were clearly better offensively with Embiid being better offensively IMO as well...

Lukas amazing but we haven’t seen a guy like Luka being the best player on a championship winning team....with his usage and his shooting %s winning big- Tatum is a bigger than normal prototype wing....Luka is so talented and driven in big games that he just scores at will...but I’m just not sure that’s going to translate into winning a chip more than Tatum will

Suddenly RS numbers fit narrative better? Difficult to say anything bad against Luka, if you look at playoffs numbers, isn't it?

It's difficult to say something bad about a 23 years old player, who was in first All Nba team 3x in a row, but at least you can try. When you look at his playoffs numbers...

They actually play in the reg season but honestly Bob no one saying anything bad about Luka by saying I haven’t seen anyone like Luka win a ring....everyone saying it because we saw Harden play statically better than Luka but not win playing a similar style. In game 5 of the conf finals Lukas team was making a run but couldn’t stop anyone.

But by comparison- We saw Tatum score 40+ and play defense ON Giannis, Butler and KD...and beat them...and btw Jason Tatum is 24 years old - wow Jason Tatum is so young and keeps getting better on defense and offense - and guess what? He is the best player on a player in the finals...


Btw bob-
I think Luka is going to be a good defender next year. Significantly better. Luka has the size necessary plus the willingness. Luka has said defense is his prime focus.

When Luka is in prime shape he will move better laterally on defense and then he will be a true 2 way player. Everyone saying he can’t ever be a good defender are looking at chubby Luka and making it seem like he is destined to be overweight forever....this is where Luka being 23 is a huge advantage- I would bet Luka going to be an all nba defender when he commits to his body like all the true great wings have before him...

Young Harden was averaging 20 points less than Luka.

Harden in his career is avg. 10 points less than Luka.

Harden is averaging 4 rebounds and 2 assist less than Luka.

Harden's best playoffs is 31.6/6.9/6.6, Luka's best playoffs 35.7/7.9/10.3.

And somehow Luka's ceiling is Harden.

At the moment the only player comparable to Luka in playoffs is MJ, who was even better scorer, but less efficient and with less rebounds and assists. MJ has won only 1 game in his first 3 playoffs, being swept 2 times. I wonder, what prediction would you made for him back then?

Tatum has much better team that Luka. Team with multiple great defenders and DPOY.

If we compare Luka and Tatum this playoffs,

31.7/9.8/6.4 vs. 27/6.7/5.9. Not exactly close.

Luka's D would have looked much better too, if he was playing with DPOY and great rim protector.

About your precious Trae, Luka was 3x first All Nba team, Trae 1x 3rd All Nba team. It looks to me that not many see Trae as better player like you. Unfortunately for Trae, size matters.

[Bob8]

Prior to this year I def would have said Luka.

But Luka has let himself go and looks like a fat guy waddling around the park now, where Tatum has vastly improved both his body and playmaking skills, which was the glaring weakness in his game.

To me you gotta question the priorities of guy as young as Luka who has let his body go like that.

You mean a fat guy, who was averaging 31.7/9.6/6.9 and has led his team in WCF? I guess it must be difficult to watch fat European dominating Nba with fantastic American athletes. Even worse, back2back MVP is not exactly prototype of great athlete either.

I believe the right question is, what happens when Luka eventually decides to take his conditioning seriously? We for sure won't have threads like this anymore.

[floppymoose]

Tatum is significantly better. Luka is overrated. Luka is going to be the next Carmello.... perennial all-star who never crosses the finish line. As a GSW fan, I'm much more concerned with Tatum than I was with Luka.

[Bob8]

Tatum is significantly better. Luka is overrated. Luka is going to be the next Carmello.... perennial all-star who never crosses the finish line. As a GSW fan, I'm much more concerned with Tatum than I was with Luka.

You're concerned with Tatum or Boston? It's obvious that Boston has much better team than Dallas.

I noticed very interesting thing. Luka's supporters are focusing on Luka. His game, his stats and his achievements. Nothing negative about Tatum. On the other hand, many Tatum supporters are bashing Luka rather than focusing on Tatum. Kinda sad actually.

Prime Carmelo was worse in everything in comparison to young Luka. Just stupid comparison with clear objective.

I always wondered, how moderators can afford trolling comments?