2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[jalengreen]

Since Russell first title (65 seasons) about 20% of them of them have had a Tatum level star or worse by my count (12-13). That's putting him in the zone of guys like Reed, Cowens, Barry, and Hayes in my book ("not a Jordan, but not a 04 Billups"), yes those are some great players and ones like Reed and Cowens have MVPs but Tatum is 1st team All NBA so he is still pretty credible star. Half of them are in the 70s but I think people also underestimate how much chance has played a role in the superstar dominance from 1980-now just like the 70s having less was also probably chance. There could have been some titles like 2002 Kings or a Blazers Pacers finals in 2000. Or for example in the 90s the Sonics just peaked one year too late, if they had their best playoff run in 94 or 95 they could have snuck one in before Jordan. The Blazers with Drexler would be another team with bad luck competition wise that if the seas parted a bit more possibly could have been a champion. There should be more champions with players on Tatum's level, it's just there was a bit of a streak for a while of either undisputed superstars or teams with obviously no superstar like the Pistons and nothing in the middle. They were many contenders over that time period who fit that description but they all lost at a a level that will probably balance out over time. The current Heat and Suns can also be encouraged for that reason that they have a shot.

I've always felt that the "can they realistically win a championship as the #1 option?" title has been given out a little too selectively by fans for this reason. The Suns over the past two years are a good example as you mentioned - up 2-0 in the 2021 Finals without a top 10 player.

[LesGrossman]

Not saying it's a guarantee Boston wins but I think people are not used to assuming the best Eastern teams are as good as the best Western teams.

Boston went through a murders row all the way from round 1 to now. Could make the argument every team Boston beat would beat the Mavericks. I actually fully believe that would be the case.

Some people saying GSW would sweep is crazy.

I dont see how KD + scrubs, getting swept, are part of "a murders row". Fully enabled Nets - different story. Kyrie having his head up his ass and mostly occupied letting everyone know how he prioritizes ramadan over his job he gets paid millions for, and Simmons still being unable to play, and KD being forced to play point forward which is certainly not his forte, i'd say thats a rather easy task.

thats their first round opponent. that's an incredibly strong opponent to face in the first round - compare that to the nuggets? saying the nets are durant+scrubs (which isn't true) and somehow not realizing that is substantially better than the atypical low seed opponent.

A LOT of people thought the Nets would win. Typically a lot of people do not think the 7th seed will win at all. The Celtics had threatening opponents in every round.


Nets, Bucks, Heat and Warriors for a championship is a murders row dude. What championship team has went through 4 opponents like that in the past years?

Hold on, you really think those Nets were tougher than the Nuggets?

[GSP]

Read on Twitter

If Jjj could stop getting in foul trouble and playing 25 MPG we might see some historic block and steal numbers

[falcolombardi]

Read on Twitter

If Jjj could stop getting in foul trouble and playing 25 MPG we might see some historic block and steal numbers

trying to block and steal every possesion usually leads tl more fouls, so both thinghs are kinda related

[70sFan]

I dont see how KD + scrubs, getting swept, are part of "a murders row". Fully enabled Nets - different story. Kyrie having his head up his ass and mostly occupied letting everyone know how he prioritizes ramadan over his job he gets paid millions for, and Simmons still being unable to play, and KD being forced to play point forward which is certainly not his forte, i'd say thats a rather easy task.

thats their first round opponent. that's an incredibly strong opponent to face in the first round - compare that to the nuggets? saying the nets are durant+scrubs (which isn't true) and somehow not realizing that is substantially better than the atypical low seed opponent.

A LOT of people thought the Nets would win. Typically a lot of people do not think the 7th seed will win at all. The Celtics had threatening opponents in every round.


Nets, Bucks, Heat and Warriors for a championship is a murders row dude. What championship team has went through 4 opponents like that in the past years?

Hold on, you really think those Nets were tougher than the Nuggets?

I do, Nuggets has nothing to offer outside of Jokic. Joker is amazing, but they weren't that hard to beat. Nets roster is far more talented, at least they could make shots.

On the other hand, I don't think Grizzlies or Mavs were on lower level than Miami, at least not clearly.

[Texas Chuck]

On the other hand, I don't think Grizzlies or Mavs were on lower level than Miami, at least not clearly.

The main point, and one I make a lot on here, is that even if we could say the Celtics faced tougher competition as a fact, that has no relevance on this matchup. Teams can only beat who is put in front of them and obviously as the teams are still alive both teams beat all comers.

I get as a fan its fun to talk about who you beat and wanting to talk them up. I love talking with Mavs fans about all the MVP's and superstars the Mavs beat on the way to the title in 2011. But I don't think beating the Lakers the year after their great 3 year run or beating the baby Thunder the year before their Finals trip meant they were better than the Heat who beat who they beat. It's just fun storytelling in the end.

I do also understand how it must have felt as a fan of an East team to have heard for 2 decades that your conference is inferior and to have to watch one player totally dominate it for nearly a decade as further evidence of that. But people put way too much stock in opponent quality. You can beat weak teams and still be a great team.

[HeartBreakKid]

I dont see how KD + scrubs, getting swept, are part of "a murders row". Fully enabled Nets - different story. Kyrie having his head up his ass and mostly occupied letting everyone know how he prioritizes ramadan over his job he gets paid millions for, and Simmons still being unable to play, and KD being forced to play point forward which is certainly not his forte, i'd say thats a rather easy task.

thats their first round opponent. that's an incredibly strong opponent to face in the first round - compare that to the nuggets? saying the nets are durant+scrubs (which isn't true) and somehow not realizing that is substantially better than the atypical low seed opponent.

A LOT of people thought the Nets would win. Typically a lot of people do not think the 7th seed will win at all. The Celtics had threatening opponents in every round.


Nets, Bucks, Heat and Warriors for a championship is a murders row dude. What championship team has went through 4 opponents like that in the past years?

Hold on, you really think those Nets were tougher than the Nuggets?

The Nets that nearly beat the Celtics 3/4 times? Better than the Nuggets without their 2nd and third best players.

Yeah...pretty easily.

[HeartBreakKid]

I don't think it sounded this way given the context of the post.

Really? What's your interpretation of the pragmatics of putting an injury in quotes?

That this had no tangible effect on Curry. I am not sure if that's true, but Curry didn't seem too hobbled after that moment. Another thing is that Celtics started their run before it happened.

This is exactly it lol.

He wasn't hobbled at all. I was like oh god, this is going to be a "steph curry is hurt thing" when they showed a replay of him.

Here is what happened. Absolutely no one here noticed Curry tweaked his ankle and would not have noticed if Mark Jackson did not point it out on commentary.

And afterward....Steph Curry was the same as before. The guy who I quoted brought up Curry's "twisted" ankle as if all the stars aligned for the Celtics to win, like Curry getting "injured" was an asterisk to game 1 (now if you're asking me why I put injuries in quote, then I would simply reflect that - why are you assuming he is injured?).

[Colbinii]

thats their first round opponent. that's an incredibly strong opponent to face in the first round - compare that to the nuggets? saying the nets are durant+scrubs (which isn't true) and somehow not realizing that is substantially better than the atypical low seed opponent.

A LOT of people thought the Nets would win. Typically a lot of people do not think the 7th seed will win at all. The Celtics had threatening opponents in every round.


Nets, Bucks, Heat and Warriors for a championship is a murders row dude. What championship team has went through 4 opponents like that in the past years?

Hold on, you really think those Nets were tougher than the Nuggets?

The Nets that nearly beat the Celtics 3/4 times? Better than the Nuggets without their 2nd and third best players.

Yeah...pretty easily.

The MOV for Boston against the Nets was smaller in 4 wins than it was in 7 game series against the Bucks and Heat.

The Nets series was every bit as close as the Bucks and Heat series.

[Texas Chuck]

The 2014 Spurs barely beat a mediocre 8th seed in the first round whose best player had the worst playoff series of his career. Then they blitzed every other opponent.

You guys are continuing to put stock in something that simply isn't that important. What matters is advancing. The Celtics should now be favored to win this series because they are up 1-0 and still have all their home games left. Not because we imagine they beat 3 better teams.

It's also funny that Paul was supposedly injured making the Suns not a good team, but Lowry and Butler were legit injured and not a mention of how that helped the Celtics win a 7 game series that was a 2 point margin 20 seconds from the end of it....

We can all write the narrative we want to write....

[falcolombardi]

Hold on, you really think those Nets were tougher than the Nuggets?

The Nets that nearly beat the Celtics 3/4 times? Better than the Nuggets without their 2nd and third best players.

Yeah...pretty easily.

The MOV for Boston against the Nets was smaller in 4 wins than it was in 7 game series against the Bucks and Heat.

The Nets series was every bit as close as the Bucks and Heat series.

couldnt disagree more

in a series the sample size is so small compared to a season than using margin of victory only is too noisy and a single blowout more can give a misleading average

this is somethingh where you cannot use average alone

[LukaTheGOAT]

Derrick White’s last 4 games in the playoffs (Inflation Adjusted per 75 possessions):

•) 22.2 points
•) 2.7 rebounds
•) 4.8 assists (3.1 rim/3PT ast.)
•) 1.3 bad pass tov.
•) 1.7 steals
•) 1.0 blocks
•) 70.7 TS%
•) Boston had a +5.9 rORtg w/ White on the court

[70sFan]

What do you think about potential greatest finals performances project after the finals?

[Dutchball97]

What do you think about potential greatest finals performances project after the finals?

Would be fun since it's not something we've really gone into yet but might be a bit soon to do it right after the finals when we've also got POY voting and the peaks project starting around that time.

[70sFan]

What do you think about potential greatest finals performances project after the finals?

Would be fun since it's not something we've really gone into yet but might be a bit soon to do it right after the finals when we've also got POY voting and the peaks project starting around that time.

Yeah, that's probably true. Maybe I'll start the project after peaks project.

[MartinToVaught]

It's also funny that Paul was supposedly injured making the Suns not a good team, but Lowry and Butler were legit injured and not a mention of how that helped the Celtics win a 7 game series that was a 2 point margin 20 seconds from the end of it....

There's a reason why I've started calling him Teflon Chris. CP3 gets more excuses made for him than any athlete I've ever seen.

[MartinToVaught]

What do you think about potential greatest finals performances project after the finals?

Well, we can already pencil in #1 at least.

[70sFan]

What do you think about potential greatest finals performances project after the finals?

Well, we can already pencil in #1 at least.

It's definitely one of the best choices, but I don't he is without competition.

[Homer38]

Shaq had 3 monster finals in 2000 to 2002,so he will high!

[sp6r=underrated]

Since Russell first title (65 seasons) about 20% of them of them have had a Tatum level star or worse by my count (12-13). That's putting him in the zone of guys like Reed, Cowens, Barry, and Hayes in my book ("not a Jordan, but not a 04 Billups"), yes those are some great players and ones like Reed and Cowens have MVPs but Tatum is 1st team All NBA so he is still pretty credible star. Half of them are in the 70s but I think people also underestimate how much chance has played a role in the superstar dominance from 1980-now just like the 70s having less was also probably chance. There could have been some titles like 2002 Kings or a Blazers Pacers finals in 2000. Or for example in the 90s the Sonics just peaked one year too late, if they had their best playoff run in 94 or 95 they could have snuck one in before Jordan. The Blazers with Drexler would be another team with bad luck competition wise that if the seas parted a bit more possibly could have been a champion. There should be more champions with players on Tatum's level, it's just there was a bit of a streak for a while of either undisputed superstars or teams with obviously no superstar like the Pistons and nothing in the middle. They were many contenders over that time period who fit that description but they all lost at a a level that will probably balance out over time. The current Heat and Suns can also be encouraged for that reason that they have a shot.

I've always felt that the "can they realistically win a championship as the #1 option?" title has been given out a little too selectively by fans for this reason. The Suns over the past two years are a good example as you mentioned - up 2-0 in the 2021 Finals without a top 10 player.

Dr Postivity is right that teams with non-MVP level players are short sold. This Finals will result in a team without either guy being in my top 3 winning the. title

But I'll add the post-1999 NBA CBA, with max salaries, and post 96(?) rookie scale, has made it a lot harder for ensemble teams. Since superstars are groosly underpaid that makes their importance more vital.

Getting of max salaries would do a lot to make it easier for teams without superstars. This is something you should want as a basketball fan. Part of the reason egregious tank jobs occur is the sense of futility NBA owners/mgmt feel about competing without a superstar.

Max salaries aren't going anywhere sadly because they were a tool of the owners to break the union.