Tatum VS Luka

[CobraCommander]

Not sure if a player that is creating a lot of shots on below average efficiency (Dinwiddie) is making the case for a great supporting cast. Mavs roster lacks balance. They have 2-3 capable ballhandlers that cannot really play off the ball. Rest of the players are solid catch and shoot options but every time they put the ball on the floor I expect a turnover.

Read on Twitter

It got them to the WCF this year, and last year Brunson was MIA, KP on one leg, and they still took a contender level team to 7 with meltdown in game 3 and Luka playing injured in game 4.
The team is short upgrading Powell to a 30 MPG legit starting center who can rebound and protect the rim of being a contender IMO.

Sounds like Houston with harden - hmmmm

[ChartFiction]

Neither of your stats show anything except that Doncic is a high usage ballstopper and building around Doncic-ball creates a decrepit iso roster, both of which are already known.

Is this another "Trust me bro' because i said so" argument?

Luka generated 121.4 points per chance against the Warriors on that high pick-and-roll, now compare that to prime Harden (91.6 points per chance during those conference finals).

Offense was the last of Mavs problems against GSW, or in these playoffs in general. They even had a higher ORTG than Celtics have right now on a slower pace lol.

Warriors vs Mavs was a chuck em, no defense series.

Every single player from Draymond to Dinwiddie was getting whatever they wanted.

Not remotely comparable series.

[Archx]

Neither of your stats show anything except that Doncic is a high usage ballstopper and building around Doncic-ball creates a decrepit iso roster, both of which are already known.

Is this another "Trust me bro' because i said so" argument?

Luka generated 121.4 points per chance against the Warriors on that high pick-and-roll, now compare that to prime Harden (91.6 points per chance during those conference finals).

Offense was the last of Mavs problems against GSW, or in these playoffs in general. They even had a higher ORTG than Celtics have right now on a slower pace lol.

Warriors vs Mavs was a chuck em, no defense series.

Every single player from Draymond to Dinwiddie was getting whatever they wanted.

Not remotely comparable series.

Ok so now you're admitting that Mavs actually had a diverse offense? Because at first you said that Doncic is a high USG% ballstopper. Which one is it now?
Because clearly something worked for them if they got this far and hardly anyone expected them to win against the Jazz not to mention Suns.

[nikster]

Not sure if a player that is creating a lot of shots on below average efficiency (Dinwiddie) is making the case for a great supporting cast. Mavs roster lacks balance. They have 2-3 capable ballhandlers that cannot really play off the ball. Rest of the players are solid catch and shoot options but every time they put the ball on the floor I expect a turnover.

Read on Twitter

It got them to the WCF this year, and last year Brunson was MIA, KP on one leg, and they still took a contender level team to 7 with meltdown in game 3 and Luka playing injured in game 4.
The team is short upgrading Powell to a 30 MPG legit starting center who can rebound and protect the rim of being a contender IMO.

Sounds like Houston with harden - hmmmm

Also sounds like Lebron in Cleveland-
Hmmmmmm

[ChartFiction]

Is this another "Trust me bro' because i said so" argument?

Luka generated 121.4 points per chance against the Warriors on that high pick-and-roll, now compare that to prime Harden (91.6 points per chance during those conference finals).

Offense was the last of Mavs problems against GSW, or in these playoffs in general. They even had a higher ORTG than Celtics have right now on a slower pace lol.

Warriors vs Mavs was a chuck em, no defense series.

Every single player from Draymond to Dinwiddie was getting whatever they wanted.

Not remotely comparable series.

Ok so now you're admitting that Mavs actually had a diverse offense? Because at first you said that Doncic is a high USG% ballstopper. Which one is it now?
Because clearly something worked for them if they got this far and hardly anyone expected them to win against the Jazz not to mention Suns.

No, they don't have a diverse offense. It's an iso or high pnr from doncic or brunson 90% of the time.

Curry didn't even wake up out of bed for that series. All Warriors had to do was beat out average TS% against a Mavs starting lineup that is awful on defense to take the series.

[Mavrelous]

Not sure if a player that is creating a lot of shots on below average efficiency (Dinwiddie) is making the case for a great supporting cast. Mavs roster lacks balance. They have 2-3 capable ballhandlers that cannot really play off the ball. Rest of the players are solid catch and shoot options but every time they put the ball on the floor I expect a turnover.

Read on Twitter

It got them to the WCF this year, and last year Brunson was MIA, KP on one leg, and they still took a contender level team to 7 with meltdown in game 3 and Luka playing injured in game 4.
The team is short upgrading Powell to a 30 MPG legit starting center who can rebound and protect the rim of being a contender IMO.

Sounds like Houston with harden - hmmmm

Houston with Harden (Paul instead of Brunson, Gordon instead of Dimwiddie and Capella instead of Powell, Ariza instead of Bullock and PJT instead of DFS) was CP3 injury away of beating the absolute prime Warriors in 2018, they were up 3-2 before Paul went down, so it's not too shabby.

[zonedefense]

Neither of your stats show anything except that Doncic is a high usage ballstopper and building around Doncic-ball creates a decrepit iso roster, both of which are already known.

Sure. Let´s just ignore the giant efficiency gap. Not like +8% eFG matter in a player comparisation. The numbers show that Luka is a better shot creator than Tatum. And it´s not close. Highlighted by the fact that when it mattered in the current finals series Brown delivered the big shots for the Celtics.

[Archx]

Warriors vs Mavs was a chuck em, no defense series.

Every single player from Draymond to Dinwiddie was getting whatever they wanted.

Not remotely comparable series.

Ok so now you're admitting that Mavs actually had a diverse offense? Because at first you said that Doncic is a high USG% ballstopper. Which one is it now?
Because clearly something worked for them if they got this far and hardly anyone expected them to win against the Jazz not to mention Suns.

No, they don't have a diverse offense. It's an iso or high pnr from doncic or brunson 90% of the time.

Curry didn't even wake up out of bed for that series. All Warriors had to do was beat out average TS% against a Mavs starting lineup that is awful on defense to take the series.

i do agree Mavs didn't do a good job on defense, you're right on that one.

[life_saver]

Luka is a tier above Tatum. This comparison is just a joke

[Birdon]

Luka
Smart
Brown
Horford
Timelord

Cs with less turnovers with Luka as the primary ball handler.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

You take Luka over JT, despite JT’s large advantage on D, because Luka controls games and when he’s hot it’s really a bonus because he can beat you in so many ways. That’s the LBJ comp on offence.

I like Tatum less and less. I don’t like his game. And all the fishing and crying is such bad TV- Luka also cries non-stop and he fishes too, but he also gives you the other end of the spectrum, he plays with a ton of joy. You get it all. With Tatum, he’s either crying or blank. No personality.

[Bob8]

Luka had 20 against GSW in game one of a horrible game and then missed 10 threes against them to lose the series against GSW….we got a comparison against equal teams - Boston is a defensive juggernaut and Tatum is more than double what Luka is on defense -

Tatum is averaging 10 points less than Luka against Warriors with horrendous shooting.

Luka was the best player in WCF, Curry is a few classes better than Tatum in the Finals. Tatum is not even playing like a star. You would have been laughing at Luka, if he played series like that. 34 FG%?

No Luka wasn’t the best- he was getting empty stats - had 20’point scorers next to him every game and losing each game while playing horrible defense… PER LUKA-

You guys don’t get- Luka in game 1 and in game 5 COST the mavs the series and Dinwiddie was good in those games - Wiggins was getting what he wanted against Luka -

Look the GSW was toying with the mavs - Luka included -! Getting 21 in the 4th quarter of a game that was out of hand to get you empty calorie stats is such bs. You guys want to give Luka credit for losing while Tatum is winning - have fun.

How can you defend Tatum's horrendous shooting? 34 FG%, only 1 game over 40%. And it's not only about his shooting, he scored only 11 points in Q4 in the Finals.

Why did Warriors win yesterday? Because of Curry. More or less all others Warriors were bad. Why did Celtics lose yesterday? Because of Tatum. Others were pretty solid. Forget about Luka for the moment and try to realistically grade Tatum's performance.

Luka has averaged 10 points more than Tatum against Warriors, attempting only 3 shots more.

[Archx]

Tatum is averaging 10 points less than Luka against Warriors with horrendous shooting.

Luka was the best player in WCF, Curry is a few classes better than Tatum in the Finals. Tatum is not even playing like a star. You would have been laughing at Luka, if he played series like that. 34 FG%?

No Luka wasn’t the best- he was getting empty stats - had 20’point scorers next to him every game and losing each game while playing horrible defense… PER LUKA-

You guys don’t get- Luka in game 1 and in game 5 COST the mavs the series and Dinwiddie was good in those games - Wiggins was getting what he wanted against Luka -

Look the GSW was toying with the mavs - Luka included -! Getting 21 in the 4th quarter of a game that was out of hand to get you empty calorie stats is such bs. You guys want to give Luka credit for losing while Tatum is winning - have fun.

How can you defend Tatum's horrendous shooting? 34 FG%, only 1 game over 40%. And it's not only about his shooting, he scored only 11 points in Q4 in the Finals.

Why did Warriors win yesterday? Because of Curry. More or less all others Warriors were bad. Why did Celtics lose yesterday? Because of Tatum. Others were pretty solid. Forget about Luka for the moment and try to realistically grade Tatum's performance.

Luka has averaged 10 points more than Tatum against Warriors, attempting only 3 shots more.

His answer will be "Elite defense from Tatum"... that elite defense allows Curry to have his best series in the playoffs so far.

Another argument he will bring up is playmaking. Yet Tatum makes 4.5 passes per game less than Luka on 4 more minutes played per game. He'll bring up APG but Tatum has fallen slightly below now. Luka averages MORE potential assists per game and MORE 2ndary assists per game, creating more chances for others.
Luka also averaged MORE created points per game for the team via assists or scoring. And even though Tatum averages same APG he still has lower AST%.
He can't even use the On/Off argument because both are almost identical. And he 100% can't use any other advance metrics because Luka beats him almost everywhere else.

There is almost no stat in the playoffs that goes in Tatum's favor. Like i said before, even defensive metrics are quite close. But obviously eye test on defense does give Tatum a bit of an advantage. I have no issues with that.

The only reason why someone still can have an argument is that there are still 2 or 3 games to be played, so Tatum still has time to redeem himself.

[CobraCommander]

No Luka wasn’t the best- he was getting empty stats - had 20’point scorers next to him every game and losing each game while playing horrible defense… PER LUKA-

You guys don’t get- Luka in game 1 and in game 5 COST the mavs the series and Dinwiddie was good in those games - Wiggins was getting what he wanted against Luka -

Look the GSW was toying with the mavs - Luka included -! Getting 21 in the 4th quarter of a game that was out of hand to get you empty calorie stats is such bs. You guys want to give Luka credit for losing while Tatum is winning - have fun.

How can you defend Tatum's horrendous shooting? 34 FG%, only 1 game over 40%. And it's not only about his shooting, he scored only 11 points in Q4 in the Finals.

Why did Warriors win yesterday? Because of Curry. More or less all others Warriors were bad. Why did Celtics lose yesterday? Because of Tatum. Others were pretty solid. Forget about Luka for the moment and try to realistically grade Tatum's performance.

Luka has averaged 10 points more than Tatum against Warriors, attempting only 3 shots more.

His answer will be "Elite defense from Tatum"... that elite defense allows Curry to have his best series in the playoffs so far.

Another argument he will bring up is playmaking. Yet Tatum makes 4.5 passes per game less than Luka on 4 more minutes played per game. He'll bring up APG but Tatum has fallen slightly below now. Luka averages MORE potential points per game and MORE 2ndary assists per game, creating more chances for others.
Luka also averaged MORE created points per game for the team via assists or scoring. And even though Tatum averages same APG he still has lower AST%.
He can't even use the On/Off argument because both are almost identical. And he 100% can't use any other advance metrics because Luka beats him almost everywhere else.

There is almost no stat in the playoffs that goes in Tatum's favor. Like i said before, even defensive metrics are quite close. But obviously eye test on defense does give Tatum a bit of an advantage. I have no issues with that.

The only reason why someone still can have an argument is that there are still 2 or 3 games to be played, so Tatum still has time to redeem himself.

It’s opinion at this point I will concede that obviously- I also think a full committed Luka is a different animal all together -

There is nothing to say Luka won’t be better on defense and offense when he gets his conditioning under control. His stats are not all time great level impressive when you consider his usage. You guys are projecting about Luka as much as I am about Tatum. The only real argument for Luka over Tatum to me is Luka is further away from his physical prime than Tatum is, AND there is possibly more upside. I’m just not impressed with Luka playing like harden and having less playoff success than guys like Kawhi, Lebron, Giannis and Kobe that fully embrace the role of being elite on both ends of the court—- all year——and can do more than just score.

Luka, AI and Harden need damn near perfect teams to be as effective and win like a guy like Curry (also a defensive liability that can score) and Luka isn’t near the player Curry is when it comes to efficiency.


Luka agrees with me more than he agrees with you guys btw, he continued to discuss his conditioning and defense- while you guys pine about how great he is - y’all should take his word that he is still growing (just like Tatum)....the nba and mavs will be better when Luka realizes that wanting to be great on defense happens in the offseason - It’s the next level in his evolution...it’s not a slight...it’s a fact and a compliment- There are guys that have maxed out and they are what they are and are not Luka...Luka is a chubby 6’8” wing at 23 with no physical limits that prevent him from being an all world defender...

[CobraCommander]

Luka
Smart
Brown
Horford
Timelord

Cs with less turnovers with Luka as the primary ball handler.

Yet Luka actually leads the league in turn overs.....let me think about that one. So Boston will have less turn overs if they add the guy that turns it over more often.....than anyone IN THE NBA-

That’s some 4 D Chess level thinking!

Spoiler:

And Boston goes from being one of the best defensive teams EVER....with a 6’10” athlete that can guard 5 positions....

BoSTON fans come get your boy-

[Wagonband]

Luka
Smart
Brown
Horford
Timelord

Cs with less turnovers with Luka as the primary ball handler.

Yet Luka actually leads the league in turn overs.....let me think about that one. So Boston will have less turn overs if they add the guy that turns it over more often.....than anyone IN THE NBA-

That’s some 4 D Chess level thinking!

Spoiler:

And Boston goes from being one of the best defensive teams EVER....with a 6’10” athlete that can guard 5 positions....

BoSTON fans come get your boy-

How do you even get the time in the day to post in this thread so much...

Yes Luka would have less TO's in Boston than he does in Dallas, because he wouldn't need to have the ball that much in his hands, and because teams couldn't double and triple team him like they do in Dallas.

But overall you are just pushing your agenda in this thread and just ignore every time you are proven wrong and try for another angle. Give it a break. If Luka had this type of series you would probably double your number of posts overall writing in every thread how Luka is overrated. This series is hardcore proof that Tatum is overrated, and you are choosing to ignore it

[CobraCommander]

It got them to the WCF this year, and last year Brunson was MIA, KP on one leg, and they still took a contender level team to 7 with meltdown in game 3 and Luka playing injured in game 4.
The team is short upgrading Powell to a 30 MPG legit starting center who can rebound and protect the rim of being a contender IMO.

Sounds like Houston with harden - hmmmm

Also sounds like Lebron in Cleveland-
Hmmmmmm

Two things can be true lol


Y’all kill me disrespecting Lukas team mates Dinwiddie and Brunson while Lebron was playing with Delladova and his dad Delonte West!

Who would you rather have ?

[rapstarter]

Luka
Smart
Brown
Horford
Timelord

Cs with less turnovers with Luka as the primary ball handler.

Yet Luka actually leads the league in turn overs.....let me think about that one. So Boston will have less turn overs if they add the guy that turns it over more often.....than anyone IN THE NBA-

That’s some 4 D Chess level thinking!

Spoiler:

And Boston goes from being one of the best defensive teams EVER....with a 6’10” athlete that can guard 5 positions....

BoSTON fans come get your boy-

Tatum actually has much higher TOV% than Luka in the playoffs. Luka just has the ball more. If he had Smart, Brown, Horford and Williams, he wouldn't have to do as much. This is no 4D chess.

Also, Boston is a great defensive team because they have great defensive players in all positions. One team has Robert Williams at 5, the other has Dwight Powell/Maxi Kleber. There's only so much a team can do defensively if your rim protection is nonexistent.

[CobraCommander]

Luka
Smart
Brown
Horford
Timelord

Cs with less turnovers with Luka as the primary ball handler.

Yet Luka actually leads the league in turn overs.....let me think about that one. So Boston will have less turn overs if they add the guy that turns it over more often.....than anyone IN THE NBA-

That’s some 4 D Chess level thinking!

Spoiler:

And Boston goes from being one of the best defensive teams EVER....with a 6’10” athlete that can guard 5 positions....

BoSTON fans come get your boy-

How do you even get the time in the day to post in this thread so much...

Yes Luka would have less TO's in Boston than he does in Dallas, because he wouldn't need to have the ball that much in his hands, and because teams couldn't double and triple team him like they do in Dallas.

But overall you are just pushing your agenda in this thread and just ignore every time you are proven wrong and try for another angle. Give it a break. If Luka had this type of series you would probably double your number of posts overall writing in every thread how Luka is overrated. This series is hardcore proof that Tatum is overrated, and you are choosing to ignore it

I’m actually at a basketball camp right now in the pacwest with mid to high level AAU players hoping to be the next Marjon or Jackson Grant or Paolo....you would he surprised how much this conversation comes up and we talk about it...parents kids etc...

You can say what you want but even the coaches are divided on Luka vs Tatum vs Trae vs Zion..... people have other than me have never seen anyone like Luka win a ring and no one sees Luka as Lebron but the most uneducated of REALGM players that don’t get that the OTHER GUYs rarely want to play with Harden or Luka or Westbrook like players.... and everyone agrees about how great Luka is...you guys under estimate how crazy it is that Tatum is nearly Giannis size and can do things that a guard does.....

[CobraCommander]

Luka
Smart
Brown
Horford
Timelord

Cs with less turnovers with Luka as the primary ball handler.

Yet Luka actually leads the league in turn overs.....let me think about that one. So Boston will have less turn overs if they add the guy that turns it over more often.....than anyone IN THE NBA-

That’s some 4 D Chess level thinking!

Spoiler:

And Boston goes from being one of the best defensive teams EVER....with a 6’10” athlete that can guard 5 positions....

BoSTON fans come get your boy-

Tatum actually has much higher TOV% than Luka in the playoffs. Luka just has the ball more. If he had Smart, Brown, Horford and Williams, he wouldn't have to do as much. This is no 4D chess.

Also, Boston is a great defensive team because they have great defensive players in all positions. One team has Robert Williams at 5, the other has Dwight Powell/Maxi Kleber. There's only so much a team can do defensively if your rim protection is nonexistent.

You know what I mean...and again you just got to narrow isolated stats...in the 82 games of the regular season did Luka lead the league in TOs?

Also Tatum didn’t get 3 blocks yesterday and can guard all 5 positions? So the Boston players saying Tatum is a great defender and their leader are lying - got it


With as bad as Tatum is I’m surprised the Celtics still playing with him and that he was 6th in mvp and all nba 1st team