Jaden Ivey

Threezus · Post #201 » by **Threezus** » Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:33 am

King Ken wrote:I definitely believe Ivey will be the 4th overall pick. Just not to SAC. Teams I like to get #4 overall are Indiana and Brooklyn.

I wouldn't be against the Hawks finding a way to get him at 4 if the price is right. Wouldn't be against a SG like Dyson either i think he can be a good 2 way SG.

BostonCouchGM · Post #202 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:18 am

I have Ivey as a potential star. Not quite at Edwards level as a prospect but very close. I was one of the very few who thought Edwards was a great prospect and future star so it's no slight on Ivey and I've been higher on Ivey than most.

SelfishPlayer · Post #203 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:54 pm

Russell Westbrook can be improved upon even if the player averages half the rebounds Russ did at his peak. All the player would need to do is simply be a flat out better shooter and cut the turnovers in half. That is a better Russell Westbrook without the "special motor" AKA colluding with teammates to steal their rebounds.

Big J · Post #204 » by **Big J** » Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:13 pm

When guys have Iveys level of scoring and athleticism you take him and figure out the details later. His potential is just too high to pass up.

bucknut · Post #205 » by **bucknut** » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:10 pm

I think this guys is a bigger, heavier, wider shoulders stronger Ja Morant with longer strides and creates more space and is actually more explosive then murant....maybe not more athletic but a more powerful longer step to create space.

Creates most space on a stepback on anyone in the league day 1

D Wade is a good comparison for this guy - he's got hall of fame potential.

Big J · Post #206 » by **Big J** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:27 am

Yea some dudes get butthurt when you make the Morant comp, but there’s a reason it keeps being made.

DroseReturnChi · Post #207 » by **DroseReturnChi** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:59 pm

bucknut wrote:I think this guys is a bigger, heavier, wider shoulders stronger Ja Morant with longer strides and creates more space and is actually more explosive then murant....maybe not more athletic but a more powerful longer step to create space.

Creates most space on a stepback on anyone in the league day 1

D Wade is a good comparison for this guy - he's got hall of fame potential.

he isnt ja. much closer to wade, westbrook, rose as an archetype. the only reason morant is brought up is we hadnt athletic guards in a while. never liked morant finally a true successor is here that can dominate all the midget guards.

King Ken · Post #208 » by **King Ken** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:45 pm

Crazy we get Cade and Jaden on the same squad. Det will be a problem for years to come. I still feel the PF is the only position they are missing long-term.

clyde21 · Post #209 » by **clyde21** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:01 pm

Big J wrote:Yea some dudes get butthurt when you make the Morant comp, but there’s a reason it keeps being made.

because people are lazy.

The Moose · Post #210 » by **The Moose** » Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:52 am

just re: the whole Ivey position thing

Givony was on Zach Lowe's podcast post draft, and he said Ivey is very self aware, and was telling teams that he isn't a point guard and doesn't expect to be a point guard.

The Cade/Ivey fit has a chance to be so harmonious

BostonCouchGM · Post #211 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:51 am

The Moose wrote:just re: the whole Ivey position thing

Givony was on Zach Lowe's podcast post draft, and he said Ivey is very self aware, and was telling teams that he isn't a point guard and doesn't expect to be a point guard.

The Cade/Ivey fit has a chance to be so harmonious

positions don't matter. Guys at every position run offenses around the league. It's about who is initiating the action at the top of the key and Ivey will be doing that a hell of a lot even potentially more than Cade. It's because his first step is elite which puts pressure on the bigs in PnR when they switch. In that regard, if Cade wasn't there, Ivey WOULD be the defacto "PG" initiating the offense. That's when he's at his best. I kinda think the fit with Cade isn't really optimal tbh since they both need the ball and neither are as good off as on. But I think he was too talented to pass up so they took him regardless and will worry about fit later. Kinda like how they took Cade even though they had just taken Hayes the previous draft. They badly need Cade to get his three ball % up for this to work out.

The Moose · Post #212 » by **The Moose** » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:19 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:
The Moose wrote:just re: the whole Ivey position thing

Givony was on Zach Lowe's podcast post draft, and he said Ivey is very self aware, and was telling teams that he isn't a point guard and doesn't expect to be a point guard.

The Cade/Ivey fit has a chance to be so harmonious

positions don't matter. Guys at every position run offenses around the league. It's about who is initiating the action at the top of the key and Ivey will be doing that a hell of a lot even potentially more than Cade. It's because his first step is elite which puts pressure on the bigs in PnR when they switch. In that regard, if Cade wasn't there, Ivey WOULD be the defacto "PG" initiating the offense. That's when he's at his best. I kinda think the fit with Cade isn't really optimal tbh since they both need the ball and neither are as good off as on. But I think he was too talented to pass up so they took him regardless and will worry about fit later. Kinda like how they took Cade even though they had just taken Hayes the previous draft. They badly need Cade to get his three ball % up for this to work out.

While Cade doesn't have an elite first step or burst, he's still effective at creating advantages off the dribble due to his pacing/craft, is the better passer of the two and a better scorer at the inbetween levels. Ivey misses too many reads to be given true initiator responsibilities imo.

I'm sure Ivey will get plenty of PnR reps, but I would guess he's used primarily as a second side/action guy early on who maintains or capitalises on the advantages created by Cade, where he is likely to be far better against scrambling/shifting defenses and attacking close outs than Cade would be. It should simplify his playmaking tasks too and take a lot of that responsibility off his shoulders.

Cade was good at creating advantages last season but the roster really lacked perimeter players to capitalise on these. Hayes/Joseph/Bey provided very little rim pressure, are unathletic and are not all that effective at attacking closeouts. Ivey is going to thrive and feast in these situations.

But yes, Cade's 3 ball definitely needs to get back to his college levels, because he is going to get far more catch and shoot opportunities this season

SelfishPlayer · Post #213 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Fri Jul 8, 2022 7:53 am

Ivey is an NBA lead ball handler all day long.

Watch on YouTube

Post #214 » by **jman3134** » Fri Jul 8, 2022 9:16 pm

Not sure what the highlights were, but he didn't look prototypical "floor general" last night. They played him often off ball with both Hayes and/or Saben Lee bringing it up. But, that was one of the worst games I've ever seen in my life.

He often makes the right pass, but he isn't usually passing people open in a way that an elite point guard does. That may not matter if he is used off ball and/or moves well enough without the ball, which I think he does.

As one of his biggest supporters on this board, last night was not a night where I felt that he lived up to my expectations (not by a longshot). He wasn't as dynamic 1 on 1 and wasn't able to isolate as much as I'm anticipating in the NBA. When he did get by his man, the help was right with him. He normally beats the secondary defender as well. He didn't capitalize.

SelfishPlayer · Post #215 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Fri Jul 8, 2022 10:34 pm

jman3134 wrote:Not sure what the highlights were, but he didn't look prototypical "floor general" last night. They played him often off ball with both Hayes and/or Saben Lee bringing it up. But, that was one of the worst games I've ever seen in my life.

He often makes the right pass, but he isn't usually passing people open in a way that an elite point guard does. That may not matter if he is used off ball and/or moves well enough without the ball, which I think he does.

As one of his biggest supporters on this board, last night was not a night where I felt that he lived up to my expectations (not by a longshot). He wasn't as dynamic 1 on 1 and wasn't able to isolate as much as I'm anticipating in the NBA. When he did get by his man, the help was right with him. He normally beats the secondary defender as well. He didn't capitalize.

Floor generals don't win NBA MVPs anymore so why you are looking for him to be an outdated style of PG is perplexing.

Post #216 » by **jman3134** » Fri Jul 8, 2022 10:49 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
jman3134 wrote:Not sure what the highlights were, but he didn't look prototypical "floor general" last night. They played him often off ball with both Hayes and/or Saben Lee bringing it up. But, that was one of the worst games I've ever seen in my life.

He often makes the right pass, but he isn't usually passing people open in a way that an elite point guard does. That may not matter if he is used off ball and/or moves well enough without the ball, which I think he does.

As one of his biggest supporters on this board, last night was not a night where I felt that he lived up to my expectations (not by a longshot). He wasn't as dynamic 1 on 1 and wasn't able to isolate as much as I'm anticipating in the NBA. When he did get by his man, the help was right with him. He normally beats the secondary defender as well. He didn't capitalize.

Floor generals don't win NBA MVPs anymore so why you are looking for him to be an outdated style of PG is perplexing.

Lmao please read my posts and understand my position before you post. That is exactly my point. I was commenting on duke's position on Ivey (though he agrees he can play off ball).

Basketball is positionless but you need someone running your sets and settling things down. Ivey isn't that right now, so it is important that Cade can bring this to the table. All about fit.

SelfishPlayer · Post #217 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Fri Jul 8, 2022 11:06 pm

jman3134 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
jman3134 wrote:Not sure what the highlights were, but he didn't look prototypical "floor general" last night. They played him often off ball with both Hayes and/or Saben Lee bringing it up. But, that was one of the worst games I've ever seen in my life.

He often makes the right pass, but he isn't usually passing people open in a way that an elite point guard does. That may not matter if he is used off ball and/or moves well enough without the ball, which I think he does.

As one of his biggest supporters on this board, last night was not a night where I felt that he lived up to my expectations (not by a longshot). He wasn't as dynamic 1 on 1 and wasn't able to isolate as much as I'm anticipating in the NBA. When he did get by his man, the help was right with him. He normally beats the secondary defender as well. He didn't capitalize.

Floor generals don't win NBA MVPs anymore so why you are looking for him to be an outdated style of PG is perplexing.

Lmao please read my posts and understand my position before you post. That is exactly my point. I was commenting on duke's position on Ivey (though he agrees he can play off ball).

Basketball is positionless but you need someone running your sets and settling things down. Ivey isn't that right now, so it is important that Cade can bring this to the table. All about fit.

What is Cade and his 3.7 turnovers to only 5.6 assists "settling down?" He needs to have the ball taken out of his hands.

Post #218 » by **jman3134** » Fri Jul 8, 2022 11:12 pm

Arguing just to argue now. Cade is 20 years old and those are his rookie numbers. He is a much more calming presence bringing up the ball than Ivey.

I am saying he should initiate the offense. Would you rather Hayes?

tmorgan · Post #219 » by **tmorgan** » Fri Jul 8, 2022 11:15 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:What is Cade and his 3.7 turnovers to only 5.6 assists "settling down?" He needs to have the ball taken out of his hands.

Just go ahead and admit you don’t watch the Pistons. It’s cool, hasn’t been much to see for a decade.

Cade does make sloppy passes. It was an issue and he’s addressing it. He was also the offensive engine, either scoring or passing, for 36 minutes a game. We had no interior finishers except Diallo until Bagley showed up. We had no high quality volume shooters until Bey settled down half way through the year. It wasn’t ideal.

There are gonna be so many people flabbergasted by Cade’s “numbers” development that have less to do with Cade getting better and more to do with having quality teammates. Maybe not this year, but soon.

SelfishPlayer · Post #220 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Fri Jul 8, 2022 11:47 pm

jman3134 wrote:Arguing just to argue now. Cade is 20 years old and those are his rookie numbers. He is a much more calming presence bringing up the ball than Ivey.

I am saying he should initiate the offense. Would you rather Hayes?

Those are horrible assist to turnover numbers for a rookie PG and especially for a #1 overall pick.