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funkatron101 wrote:I fully expect some struggles in the first couple of years. I just don't understand why people are caught up in his size.
EDIT: It occurs to me that my right may be misplaced, as you were responding to the size-in-comparison-to-Aaron-Brooks issue and the notion that Rubio doesn't have a strong base. Oops. Yeah, his basic physical dimensions aren't the problem, there are lots of guards who don't have a huge powerful frame. Yeah, he's not going to be Chauncey Billups or Jason Kidd in year one, but his size isn't an issue, it's an advantage for sure. It's the pedestrian athletic talent and his weak shooting ability that will be the issue, not his size.
jinxed wrote:Tsherkin wrote..
Yet despite his shooting which needs improvement..his average NBA athleticism..He is still the BEST offensive player in Europe..
How is this the case?...well..he has an off the charts basketball IQ. He knows how to run an offense..run a pick and roll..he knows how to get the ball to the guy who's hot. He knows when to shoot, when not to shoot. He knows when to push the fast break, when to slow it up..he knows hot to run a play, take care of the shot clock etc...etc..
He's also a very good defender. Even against NBA talent..in three games against team USA he has 10 steals..in about 60 minutes...so that's 6 steals per 36..
tsherkin wrote:
Yes, but...
Nash is one of the best shooters in NBA history. Not just as a set shooter, either, but off the dribble and on creative shots in the mid-range area while off-balance and contested.
Rubio, to be polite, is not a very good shooter and certainly not compensating for his comparatively weak athleticism with his perimeter game. He's a threat to pass, certainly, but he's got to be a threat to score before that really means all that much. He was perfectly HORRIBLE as a scoring threat in the Euroleague this year, something that's been consistently true.
So discussing him in comparison to Nash doesn't make sense, even if you're only trying to discuss size. Nash has a trump card, something that helps compensate for the fact that he's not an explosive athlete. He's got one of the best basketball IQs in the business, is arguably the best pick-and-roll guard in the last 20 years and he's one of the best shooters the league has ever seen.
Rubio has talent and potential, but he's going to have a rather large hurdle to overcome. Even Jason Kidd had a reasonably reliable shot out to 20-22 feet, which Rubio does not, and he had a post game that Rubio does not. Like Kidd, Rubio doesn't finish especially well under the arc and he isn't an explosive athlete (although in his day, Kidd was perhaps the quickest player end to end with the ball in his hands apart from Iverson).
He's going to struggle. I picture a fair number of turnovers and fouls and an exceedingly low scoring efficiency. He's going to have moments where his passing shines through and he's going to adjust and adapt with time, but he's not going to be a wildly effective player as a rookie.
EDIT: It occurs to me that my right may be misplaced, as you were responding to the size-in-comparison-to-Aaron-Brooks issue and the notion that Rubio doesn't have a strong base. Oops. Yeah, his basic physical dimensions aren't the problem, there are lots of guards who don't have a huge powerful frame. Yeah, he's not going to be Chauncey Billups or Jason Kidd in year one, but his size isn't an issue, it's an advantage for sure. It's the pedestrian athletic talent and his weak shooting ability that will be the issue, not his size.
Apollo64 wrote:jinxed wrote:Tsherkin wrote..
Yet despite his shooting which needs improvement..his average NBA athleticism..He is still the BEST offensive player in Europe..
How is this the case?...well..he has an off the charts basketball IQ. He knows how to run an offense..run a pick and roll..he knows how to get the ball to the guy who's hot. He knows when to shoot, when not to shoot. He knows when to push the fast break, when to slow it up..he knows hot to run a play, take care of the shot clock etc...etc..
He's also a very good defender. Even against NBA talent..in three games against team USA he has 10 steals..in about 60 minutes...so that's 6 steals per 36..
Can a mod please ban this guy? He is either nuts or trolling for laughs.
jinxed wrote:Apollo64 wrote:jinxed wrote:Tsherkin wrote..
Yet despite his shooting which needs improvement..his average NBA athleticism..He is still the BEST offensive player in Europe..
How is this the case?...well..he has an off the charts basketball IQ. He knows how to run an offense..run a pick and roll..he knows how to get the ball to the guy who's hot. He knows when to shoot, when not to shoot. He knows when to push the fast break, when to slow it up..he knows hot to run a play, take care of the shot clock etc...etc..
He's also a very good defender. Even against NBA talent..in three games against team USA he has 10 steals..in about 60 minutes...so that's 6 steals per 36..
Can a mod please ban this guy? He is either nuts or trolling for laughs.
He has the best offensive adj plus/minus in the Euroleague...I.E the best offensive player in Europe over the last two years.
Go read the OP
Apollo64 wrote:[
The stat is worthless.
Have you even watched Rubio play in this season?
8 Mile Ilic wrote:BubbaTee wrote:Johnny Firpo wrote:I know one thing, the Wolves will win more games with him, than without him. He will be an impactful quality starting PG at the very least. He may shoot 38% percent from the floor, but he won't hurt his team much with it. That's how great a passer he is. He has one elite skill, and that happens to be the most important one when it comes to a point guard. He won't be a bust, just no way.
Even if his offense is horrible he's still a better defender than Ridnour or Flynn. Though he might struggle at first in adjusting to the "breathe on him and it's a foul" rules the NBA has regarding perimeter defense. Once he gets a feel for the rules, he should be MIN's best perimeter defender.
In that case Minnesota better start planning for the 2012 draft lottery.
jinxed wrote:
2) NEVER use just one year's data. Adjusted plus/minus NEEDS a lot of data to lower the error rate. At least two is the general rule of thumb. The euroleague stats are over the last two years. Three years is optimal.
jinxed wrote:I'm not sure why you think he's a pedestrian athlete..no he's not world class explosive like Dwyane Wade..not even close..but he's got great stamina..I've never seen him tired..although i've never seen him play 40 minutes he either..and I wouldn't see him as a weak athlete ..he has good coordination..he dunks very easily..I would say AVERAGE nba athlete..
tsherkin wrote:I wouldn't say average because his lateral quickness and leaping ability are so unimpressive. Athleticism isn't an advantage to him, it's a hindrance, and that makes him below average. Athletically, he has more in common with JJ Redick than a lot of other guys, though by my eye he isn't stump-armed like Redick. His stamina is tough to evaluate; he plays a limited number of games and not a lot of minutes... and he doesn't play at a pace that's similar to the NBA. Having said that, lots of Euroleague guys end up not having an issue in that respect in the NBA, so I'm not going to worry about it.
.
BadWolf wrote:
You're using 40 games for Rubio and want to use at least 160 for NBA players to make it comparable?
jinxed wrote:J.J Redick is the best athlete on the Orlando Magic.
What? That's crazy..isn't he on the same team as Dwight Howard?
Yep. But J.J still is.
Every year before training camp the Magic have a competition called the "Iron Magic" to see who the best athlete is on the team. It's a competition comprising of 8 different events..including bench press, 3 minute run, vertical leap, sprints, and agility drills.
In 2009 J.J Redick won the competition. In 2010 Gortat did, but he's no longer on the team..so J.J remains the incumbent champion.
We need to stop thinking people are unathletic because they have white skin..
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
jinxed wrote:J.J Redick is the best athlete on the Orlando Magic.
What? That's crazy..isn't he on the same team as Dwight Howard?
Yep. But J.J still is.
Every year before training camp the Magic have a competition called the "Iron Magic" to see who the best athlete is on the team. It's a competition comprising of 8 different events..including bench press, 3 minute run, vertical leap, sprints, and agility drills.
In 2009 J.J Redick won the competition. In 2010 Gortat did, but he's no longer on the team..so J.J remains the incumbent champion.
We need to stop thinking people are unathletic because they have white skin..
kd35sneighbor wrote:Tony Parker ain't that great of a shooter and he's doing well. But he's a great finisher at the rim? Sure, but Rubio is no slouch in that regard, and you can't judge him off how he did in Europe anyway.
