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For the record, I love Deng, but he isn't going to improve at this point of his career. Or I should say it's highly unlikely.

He is what he is, a nice third option, who is one of the best perimeter defenders and plays well within the offense and has great intangibles. At the same time, he has a frail body and a not so small contract. We lost two years with Rose's injury. So yes, I'd look to trade Deng now while his value is high then wait til we have a 29 year old Deng, who has Red mentioned elsewhere, will likely demand for another big contract by the time we are ready. By then, the investment would be far less wise to make.

teamCHItown wrote:

kozelkid wrote:I was CLEARLY talking about Sacramento.

My bad. Still, though, how do awful teams like GS and Minnesota have the pieces to compete right now? Those teams suck.

They have key building blocks in place for a vet like Deng.

With GSW, they have Curry, Klay, David Lee, Bogut. Their big concern is health, but when healthy, that's a core that can make some noise.

Minnesota was a team that was clicking and was competing for the 8th seed til Rubio went down. As it is, they have an arguable top 10 player in Love, a very good young player in Pekovic (who should have won most improved), and Rubio who was very good and will continue to improve.

Point is, I think it's fair to say that next year we are out of contention since Rose will not be a 100% til likely 2014. I'd rather go through a mini-rebuild and trade Deng while his value his high.

I don't know about Tyreke Evans. IMO, He is a guy who could be useful to the Bulls but his value in the league is not equal to Deng.

The biggest advantage to the value of Deng is how he can play without the ball. Unfortunately, the Bulls also need a ball handler/shot creator in the worst way and if Boozer could create a shot or the SG(Rip) could do that....then Deng would have been a perfect fit. Deng is a perfect fit in probably 99% of the good teams in the league.
It is really a question of do the Bulls find that second guy by trading Deng?

AAU Teammate wrote:Deng at 6'9" does so much for a team, even as is. Lets say he has the surgery and then finally gives you an offensive (within the arc) year like he did in 06-07. You'd feel stupid for having traded him.

I would move him for a great piece, but I think until he has another of those seasons, his value will always be greatest on our team as opposed to in trade value

Unless some team was just so sick of their defense mentality that they would overpay for Deng (or rather, pay us for what he's worth)

It's more about the long term. I don't believe Deng should or will be in our long term plans, beyond these next 2 years, if he isn't traded before then. I have serious concerns about whether or not he will be a useful player beyond 30 years of age, with a body already lacking in the athleticism department and an injury history that's probably not going to get any better with age. When Deng comes off his current deal, so will the prime years of his career; which is why trading him between now and then is ideal, and the earlier the better in my opinion.

kozelkid wrote:For the record, I love Deng, but he isn't going to improve at this point of his career. Or I should say it's highly unlikely.

Agreed, with the caveat that he'll be better than he was this year, you know, because of the one handed thing.

We lost two years with Rose's injury.

If you're gonna say to years, why not just say 7 or something. Why two years? Rose should be back for the playoffs next season, though not at full explosiveness. Opening night 2013-14 he should be as healthy as he's been as a Bull, frankly.

So yes, I'd look to trade Deng now while his value is high...

How is Deng's value high? He needs surgery that will cause him to miss a month or two of the season.

then wait til we have a 29 year old Deng, who has Red mentioned elsewhere, will likely demand for another big contract by the time we are ready. By then, the investment would be far less wise to make.

We'll be ready full strength, ready to roll for a title, in 2013-14 and there's not a shred of reason to think otherwise unless you think Rose will never be the same in which case I advise people to root for different teams permanently. I think Deng's next deal will be something like 4 years, 35 mil. What's wrong with that?

Deng is a very, very athletic player for a 6-9" - 6'10" guy which he is.

Deng can easily play a lot of stretch 4, which is another reason to keep him unless the perfect deal comes along. If we trade Taj or Boozer, Deng suddenly starts getting real minutes at the 4, which I think is a good thing. He's always seemed effective there.

Mech Engineer wrote:I don't know about Tyreke Evans. IMO, He is a guy who could be useful to the Bulls but his value in the league is not equal to Deng.

The biggest advantage to the value of Deng is how he can play without the ball. Unfortunately, the Bulls also need a ball handler/shot creator in the worst way and if Boozer could create a shot or the SG(Rip) could do that....then Deng would have been a perfect fit. Deng is a perfect fit in probably 99% of the good teams in the league.
It is really a question of do the Bulls find that second guy by trading Deng?

It kinda is. Noah is the only other option who could get us such a player, but if I'm looking for a star perimeter player I'd rather deal Deng. Besides, even though Deng is a better player than Noah, Noah's contract and less games played in this league makes him the more valuable player of the two. That and being a big man in a league without many good ones.

I mean, we gotta look at this realistically. At the earliest, barring some major blockbuster move, we aren't going to be legit contenders til 2013-2014. By then, that will be Deng's tenth season. Following that season, he will also expect one last big extension. Would you be willing to make that risk knowing his injury history? I wouldn't. I think next season is the perfect season for the Bulls to just say "**** it", and try out some young players with upside who simply didn't make it in their current situation or else acquire a late lotto pick in this draft (like a Sullinger or Lamb).

This core just isn't as young as people seem to believe. I think we need to really consider some sort of retooling.

The only Deng for talent trades that I've seen that I'd consider are to Washington (my idea) with brewer for Lewis (who we'd cut because his guarantee is only equal to Deng's salary) and their pick, which we'd use to take Sullinger or Thomas Robinson. Sullinger though, the more video I watch, almost seems like the next Shelden Williams. Thomas Robinson looks like a real talent, to me. I don't watch college ball so I'm not the guy whose opinion matters, but based on scouting reports and highlight videos, there isn't a perimeter player in the draft that I'd trade Deng for. I just don't think any of them seem very good.

And if we did a Deng for Robinson (or Sullinger) deal, I'd only do it if we already had a good Boozer deal ready to go for a wing player, which is very unlikely unless Ben Gordon is coming back. Otherwise we're just a team filled with PFs.

teamCHItown wrote:Agreed, with the caveat that he'll be better than he was this year, you know, because of the one handed thing.

Sure, so if that whole one-handed concern causes teams to be weary, then yes, we wait til next season. Personally, I don't think it will and I'm one who'd deal Deng for say Dorell Wright and GSW's pick in a second.

If you're gonna say to years, why not just say 7 or something. Why two years? Rose should be back for the playoffs next season, though not at full explosiveness. Opening night 2013-14 he should be as healthy as he's been as a Bull, frankly.

Well we lost this year obviously. And we will lose next season. Let's be honest, we aren't beating OKC or Miami with an 80% Rose next season. Nor am I taking into account any other team that might make a leap into contention or the fact that Boozer will probably decline or assuming that our injury prone core stays healthy.

How is Deng's value high? He needs surgery that will cause him to miss a month or two of the season.

Well, it was reported that that might not be the case. Besides, considering it's not something that is that difficult to treat, I still think a few teams would consider him for what he still managed to him. Obviously, it depends on the deals offered. I'm not saying we trade Deng for anything, but I can think of a few deals I'd definitely do or consider.

We'll be ready full strength, ready to roll for a title, in 2013-14 and there's not a shred of reason to think otherwise unless you think Rose will never be the same in which case I advise people to root for different teams permanently. I think Deng's next deal will be something like 4 years, 35 mil. What's wrong with that?

What makes you so confident? We won't have the same depth; I think it's almost certain that Brewer and Korver will be gone. Boozer will further regress if he's even still here and Rip will be gone. I just don't see it. And I think Deng will most certainly get 8 figures given his recent success with being an allstar and all-NBA 2nd defense.

Way I saw it, we had a 3 year window or so before we needed to retool. Thankfully our FO somewhat prepared ahead with savy moves like Mirotic and the Char pick, but with a season lost (and imo the last year of our 3 year window), I say it's a perfect opportunity to move ahead of schedule.

kozelkid wrote:Sure, so if that whole one-handed concern causes teams to be weary, then yes, we wait til next season. Personally, I don't think it will and I'm one who'd deal Deng for say Dorell Wright and GSW's pick in a second.

I gotta say, if Robinson or Sullinger are on the board, I definitely consider this as long as Boozer is gone in another deal simultaneously. I'd do it if I know what Boozer can fetch, which I assume is no better than Ben Gordon, which I'd be OK with.

Well we lost this year obviously. And we will lose next season. Let's be honest, we aren't beating OKC or Miami with an 80% Rose next season. Nor am I taking into account any other team that might make a leap into contention or the fact that Boozer will probably decline or assuming that our injury prone core stays healthy.

Sure but in saying two years, that's kind of casting it in an inaccurate light. Yeah it might be two calendar years until the playoffs where we'd compete, but in saying two years, you make it seem like it's two years longer than anyone else. It's one year longer than every other team in the league. And the reality is, we can easily lose in the 2nd round or ECF next year, and 5 months later be in first place in the new season with a full healthy team, so it's really 5 months between watching the very best teams from home, and kicking their asses again on opening night 2013. See what I'm saying? 5 months is more accurate than two years. We're both right, but mine is the emotionally superior viewpoint.

Well, it was reported that that might not be the case. Besides, considering it's not something that is that difficult to treat, I still think a few teams would consider him for what he still managed to him. Obviously, it depends on the deals offered. I'm not saying we trade Deng for anything, but I can think of a few deals I'd definitely do or consider.

No, Deng definitely needs surgery. the Bulls are playing around talking about it as not being necessary for a couple reasons - to keep his trade value as high as it can be, and to ineffectively make Deng feel guilty for playing in London by implying that he can play another full season taped up one handed. He could play another 10 year without surgery and never miss a game, but he will never play his full game again until he has surgery. He's got a torn tendon. It won't heal on it's own.

What makes you so confident? We won't have the same depth; I think it's almost certain that Brewer and Korver will be gone.

Korver and Brewer both suck. I expect out depth to be better. My expectation for the offseason is bringing back the exact same team with these substitions:

- #29 replaces Lucas and is hopefully better (obviously that's not certain at all)
- Butler replaces Brewer and is able to contribute on both sides of the ball - overall an improvement over Brewer at least by 2013-14.
- MMLE replaces Korver - not sure who yet. I'm hoping somebody like Gerald Green, Jeff Green, or Beasley maybe. I think it could be an improvement over Korver.
- vet min replaces Butler, essentially. I'm thinking TMac or Nocioni.

...and this all ignores a trade we could very well do to bring in a good wing player with one of our bigs and something else.

Boozer will further regress if he's even still here

Why? He improved this year and he's only 30 years old.

and Rip will be gone.

And can be replaced by another MMLE signing.

I just don't see it. And I think Deng will most certainly get 8 figures given his recent success with being an allstar and all-NBA 2nd defense.

I think it's pretty premature to say a guy will get 10+ mil a year two years from now. Even if he does, though, that's a cost decrease to us of several million a year.

Way I saw it, we had a 3 year window or so before we needed to retool. Thankfully our FO somewhat prepared ahead with savy moves like Mirotic and the Char pick, but with a season lost (and imo the last year of our 3 year window), I say it's a perfect opportunity to move ahead of schedule.

I just can't figure out why Carlos Boozer being 31-32 years old vs 30-31 is the difference between this team competing and not. I just can't grasp that. It's like all you people think Korver and Brewer don't suck. I mean, they don't suck, I actually like them both, but those guys are as one-dimensional as it gets, and when you have only 1 star you need all-around players.

This could easily be our team going into 2013-14:

Asik
Noah
Taj
Boozer
Deng
Jeff Green - 2012 MMLE signee
RIP
2013 MMLE - a SG
CJ
Rose
Butler
2012 draft pick
2013 draft pick

It's becoming increasingly apparent to me that the divide on this board right now is between the people trying to get the best team on the cheap, and the people trying to get the best team. I'm in the latter group, and think that the best team on the cheap is not possibly going to be good enough. I think the Bulls FO knows this. The above is my expectation for 2013-14, and could win a title IMO.

Just throwing it out there...

Aside for guys whose careers were hampered by injuries (or reckless behavior in Coleman's case), every ROY went on to have a relatively good or great career. Evans clearly is a very talented / high-ceiling player, but he's played out of position since last year, since they added Thornton.. not to mention Westphal seemed like a bad coach for that group.

I would've kept Deng in favor of not having to develop an iso-scoring project alongside Rose, but missing him for a year... Trades centered around Deng-for-Evans make a lot of sense. Bulls would get the higher-ceiling, and cheaper player, so you have to sweeten the deal in King's favor, but just saying, it prob makes both teams happy, unless they draft Gilchrist or Barnes.

Deng for Evans/Salmons.. maybe toss in a lottery-protected future pick, like 2014. They're young at every position, and they're adding another top-5 pick... at some point you simply need to stop playing the Clippers/Baby-Bulls game and get a cohesive team in place, and Luol is someone who can lead and set a good example. Cousins and Thornton aren't exactly Durant and Westbrook, in terms of character. As a Kings fan, I like the trade, esp. w/a future pick.

As a Bulls fan, I rest easy knowing we still have the deepest PF/C rotation in the league, perhaps the best coach in the eastern conference, and a 20+ ppg who can get better.

3 Things:

1: Deng is nother athletic, but he's an outstanding basketball player.

2: Deng is way more valuable to the Chicago Bulls than he would be to any other team in the league.
A team would really have to overpay for him to equal his value to our Chicago Bulls.

3: Tyreke would flourish with this teams structure, No way in hell would I trade Deng for him unless they sweeten that pot something serious..

I'd probably do Deng for Evans straight up, or Deng for Evans, Salmons & #36 (then try and package with #29 & move up)

I'll pass on this overrated loser who hasn't lived up to help the lowly Kings even make a playoff appearance.

I said this before Rose went down, and I'll say it again....optimizing this team just for Rose having the ball at all times is a bad idea. He cannot physically handle the workload of a Thibs led championship run all by himself. Evans can be our Lebron while Rose can play the role of Wade.

A poster mentioned that we had no chance with a 80% D Rose. Do people not forget how much of a workhorse this dude is and his drive and determination is off the charts. That and look at the self esteem of the team when Rose went down...our confidence went in the toilet...but the opposite will happen next year when he comes back I think hes gonna make the team sooo pumped.

Im not saying were gonna be title contenders but I hate the notion that some posters are already throwing away next season. Rose comes back and were a lower seed ANYTHING could happen.

LobosJordan wrote:I'll pass on this overrated loser who hasn't lived up to help the lowly Kings even make a playoff appearance.

Key word "lowly"... Only so much you can do when your coaches suck, there's no direction in the franchise outside of collecting assets and pondering a move to a new city, and your starters average around 22.2 years of age (pulling that number out my ass but it's gotta be around there)...

To be fair, Lebron missed the playoffs his 1st two seasons as well. And Durant missed them 2 seasons as well. And their teams had much more direction. Really has nothing to do with it.

Evans has 4 things going for him... he's healthy, shows all-star scoring ability, has size/athleticism to defend well, and hasn't shown bad character like Cousins or JR Smith. Just saying, given Thibodeau's history with players, chances are he can help Evans become an all-star... Given that it'll be a year before Rose can play, transitioning into a slightly altered team isn't a bad idea. We need a scorer/play-maker more than a defensive-specialist/spot-up shooter.

MrSparkle wrote:

LobosJordan wrote:I'll pass on this overrated loser who hasn't lived up to help the lowly Kings even make a playoff appearance.

Key word "lowly"... Only so much you can do when your coaches suck, there's no direction in the franchise outside of collecting assets and pondering a move to a new city, and your starters average around 22.2 years of age (pulling that number out my ass but it's gotta be around there)...

To be fair, Lebron missed the playoffs his 1st two seasons as well. And Durant missed them 2 seasons as well. And their teams had much more direction. Really has nothing to do with it.

Evans has 4 things going for him... he's healthy, shows all-star scoring ability, has size/athleticism to defend well, and hasn't shown bad character like Cousins or JR Smith. Just saying, given Thibodeau's history with players, chances are he can help Evans become an all-star.

I think the talent/skillset evaluation is important to how this guy will perform with a change of scenery to a winning organization. The Kings with their stadium issues, coach issues, immaturity issues looks like a organization which was coasting in a business sense. Some guys take more time to mature/bloom. That's why it is very difficult to say something that Evans will be a bust here by watching a few games on TV. All we want from GarPax as Bulls fans is to trust them that they will make a good evaluation of the player. What we know as fans is that this team needs that other semi-star player to help Rose.

That said, is he worth a Deng? Evans is at his low-point but has been a top 3 pick and a Rookie of the Year. What is the value for Evans for GarPax? IMO, I don't think they will give up Deng even if they want him. They will want a more proven player for Deng like a Rudy Gay or Gordon than Evans(off-course for Gordon they will have to add more).

Evans is a pretty talented dude, but man his IQ always seems in question. If he developed a perimeter shot and got his in between game to a respectable level then I would be all in. His rookie year just seems like fools gold to me.

There goes bulls fans AGAIN overrating players.