Seed the West

[Texas Chuck]

my mavericks havent improved so we should give up some wins....
phoenix got worse
Portland hasnt improved
houston should be giving back 25 wins or so
Minny hasnt improved
Memphis hasnt improved
Kings havent improved
GSW havent improved (assuming Bogut and Curry miss their usual combined 75 games)
Spurs havent improved



Lots of teams will obv be giving wins back to the group and several should be around the same % as last year barring the obv injuries--unexpected drop-offs and break-outs

[LoyalKing]

Jazz are definitely not in the same tier of DEN, MEM and LAC. And they are definitely not better than Dallas.

I simply don't see why there's so much talk about the Jazz off-season when they just added mediocre players like Mo Williams, Marvin Williams and Randy Foye.

Just for comparison, PHX added Dragic, Scola and Beasley. GS will start the season with a healthy Curry, Bogut and David Lee. Minny added AK and Roy and they will have Pek and Rubio back fully healthy.

[Ell Curry]

Here's a better way for me to put it.

Teams are in no particular order, just a tier of how high I think they can get. Example, the first tier has the Lakers, Spurs and Thunder, meaning those teams will probably be the 1, 2, and 3 seeds-- just not in any particular order. Then the next tier, 4-7 has teams that will most likely land 4-7-- just not in any particular order, etc.

1-3 Tier:
Lakers, Spurs, Thunder

4-7 Tier:
Nuggets, Jazz, Grizzlies, Clippers

8-11 Tier:
Mavs, Wolves, Blazers, Golden State

12-15 Tier:
Suns, Rockets, Kings, Hornets

I mostly agree with this, with the following distinctions:

1. The Mavs will be in that 2nd tier after a big year from Dirk, who comes back motivated and ready to show Dwight Howard and whoever else that coming to Dallas gives them a top 5 or 6 player by their side. They have solid guard depth and while I'm not a Kaman fan at all, I think they can get by with Brand and Wright playing at center for decent stretches of time. If Dirk has his usual season, his team will win 45-50, barring a complete defensive collapse (which I suppose is possible with all the new guys coming in).

2. The Suns and Kings will be alone in the bottom tier. The Hornets and Rockets will be in the low 30's, since they each have a good offensive guard (Gordon and LIn) and defensive big man who can protect the rim (Anthony Davis and Omer Asik) and it's hard to be too bad on O with a good ball dominant guard or bad on D with a good anchor inside. I think the Suns and Kings win totals are in the low to mid 20's, while the Hornets and Rockets are closer to the mid-30's.

3. I think the Nuggets might have a great regular season in them. They finished dead last in 3pters against in both volume and accuracy. If teams cool off against them a bit and with their great depth and home-court advantage and McGee finding a decent role with Karl and his upbeat style, I can very much see them winning 55 games, being up there with the Spurs, Lakers and Thunder but losing in 1st round to Memphis or the Clippers (4-5 series) or in the 2nd round to one of the West big dogs.

[Texas Chuck]

Jazz are definitely not in the same tier of DEN, MEM and LAC. And they are definitely not better than Dallas.

I simply don't see why there's so much talk about the Jazz off-season when they just added mediocre players like Mo Williams, Marvin Williams and Randy Foye.

Just for comparison, PHX added Dragic, Scola and Beasley. GS will start the season with a healthy Curry, Bogut and David Lee. Minny added AK and Roy and they will have Pek and Rubio back fully healthy.

its about fit tho. Was everyone excited about the Mavs 2010 offseason? No. They got killed my every major publication/media outlet/the forums. But the pieces fit together like a glove.

No the Jazz arent the 2011 Mavs but their pieces fit so much better this year. They have actual shooters to give their strong bigs room to work, they have a real pg and a real sf. Those are big improvements. Much more so than adding Beas and downgrading Nash into Dragic or counting on Rubio/Roy to be healthy and make up a ton of ground on the Jazz or counting on GSW to either stay healthy or play defense.

[Johnny Firpo]

the old dallas team used to get top 4 all the time. no question there.

but they arent finishing top 2. nor winning a title.

keep homering it up. its the offseason - the time homers live for.

Who said they're gonna win a title? Reading comprehension ftw.

[carrottop12]

Jazz are definitely not in the same tier of DEN, MEM and LAC. And they are definitely not better than Dallas.

I simply don't see why there's so much talk about the Jazz off-season when they just added mediocre players like Mo Williams, Marvin Williams and Randy Foye.

Just for comparison, PHX added Dragic, Scola and Beasley. GS will start the season with a healthy Curry, Bogut and David Lee. Minny added AK and Roy and they will have Pek and Rubio back fully healthy.

A lot of people have noted Phoenix as a team that added pieces. Did they forget Nash left for nothing? And adding AK/losing Beasley is essentially a push if it's the same AK that had been in Utah in his final three years.

[horacexgrant]

1) OKC
2) Spurs
3) Clippers
4) Lakers
5) Memphis
6) Dallas
7) Nuggets
8) don't know

[LoyalKing]

Jazz are definitely not in the same tier of DEN, MEM and LAC. And they are definitely not better than Dallas.

I simply don't see why there's so much talk about the Jazz off-season when they just added mediocre players like Mo Williams, Marvin Williams and Randy Foye.

Just for comparison, PHX added Dragic, Scola and Beasley. GS will start the season with a healthy Curry, Bogut and David Lee. Minny added AK and Roy and they will have Pek and Rubio back fully healthy.

its about fit tho. Was everyone excited about the Mavs 2010 offseason? No. They got killed my every major publication/media outlet/the forums. But the pieces fit together like a glove.

No the Jazz arent the 2011 Mavs but their pieces fit so much better this year. They have actual shooters to give their strong bigs room to work, they have a real pg and a real sf. Those are big improvements. Much more so than adding Beas and downgrading Nash into Dragic or counting on Rubio/Roy to be healthy and make up a ton of ground on the Jazz or counting on GSW to either stay healthy or play defense.

Well,

Dallas fans weren't excited because Chandler was always injured but when he played a single season healthy, he completely changed the Mavs. He was the key in that off-season and he was the key addition in the 2010 title. Mo Williams, Foye and Marvin Williams are not game changers like Chandler and the Jazz don't have a player like Dirk.

Bogut could have a similar impact with GS. He is a top 3 Center when healthy. With Rubio and Pekovic healthy, Minny is a very good team and will definitely fight for a playoff spot. I don't think PHX is the conversation for a playoff spot yet, but you can't call their off-season horrible (as the Jazz fan did) when your team added Marvin Williams, Mo Williams and Randy Foye.

Dallas will be better than the Jazz next season and the Jazz won't be a playoff team. You guys can book any and I am willing to bet against any Jazz homer about it.

[Muggsy Bogues]

A lot of people have noted Phoenix as a team that added pieces. Did they forget Nash left for nothing? And adding AK/losing Beasley is essentially a push if it's the same AK that had been in Utah in his final three years.

Well, seeing as AK won the Euroleague MVP last season, I don't think he's likely to revert to his Utah self. Phoenix you may have a point about... Beasley's a question mark and their depth's not good.

[teamgrizz]

I find it hilarious that people say the Grizzlies didn't replace OJ and have not improved. Have some of you kept up with the moves the team has made? The Rudy/ZBO argument is still being brought up. Truth be told, ZBO and Rudy played together in the 09-10 season and they looked great together. They also looked good together in 2010-11.

This is a team that won 41 games in a 66 game season without their best player for the most part. They brought back 7 rotational players: Conley, TA, Gay, ZBO, Marc, Pondexter and Speights. Added Ellington, Bayless, Arthur is back and should see some improvement in Selby. How does a team get worse that has improved every season since the 09-10 season with all of the injuries they've had throughout the past two seasons?

I guarantee that Memphis will at least be a top 4 seed in the West next season. I even have them winning the division, but its hard to say because the Spurs seem to never stop winning.

1) OKC
2) LAL
3) MEM
4) SAS
5) LAC
6) DEN
7) DAL
8) UTA

[Ell Curry]

Jazz are definitely not in the same tier of DEN, MEM and LAC. And they are definitely not better than Dallas.

I simply don't see why there's so much talk about the Jazz off-season when they just added mediocre players like Mo Williams, Marvin Williams and Randy Foye.

Just for comparison, PHX added Dragic, Scola and Beasley. GS will start the season with a healthy Curry, Bogut and David Lee. Minny added AK and Roy and they will have Pek and Rubio back fully healthy.

its about fit tho. Was everyone excited about the Mavs 2010 offseason? No. They got killed my every major publication/media outlet/the forums. But the pieces fit together like a glove.

No the Jazz arent the 2011 Mavs but their pieces fit so much better this year. They have actual shooters to give their strong bigs room to work, they have a real pg and a real sf. Those are big improvements. Much more so than adding Beas and downgrading Nash into Dragic or counting on Rubio/Roy to be healthy and make up a ton of ground on the Jazz or counting on GSW to either stay healthy or play defense.

The fact that Favors improved a lot, Millsap at SF worked really well for them and Mo and Marvin Williams being good spot up shooters all seem like good harbingers for the Jazz. If their rotation is:
Favors-Jefferson-MarvinWilliams-Hayward-MoWilliams
+ Millsap, Kanter, Burks and 15 minutes of meh backup PG play from Tinsley, that looks like a really solid team, especially if 2 of Favors, Hayward and Burks take a leap forward. Defensively, having Favors playing more should help, as should Marvin Williams' length and solid D.

The West really is deep this year. I think only the Suns (playing Beasley big minutes at the 3 is going to kill them, they have no real SG and Scola's not a good defender, so I think they're the favorites to finish last in the league on D) and Kings (Cousins will have to be a monster, since their 2nd best player is Marcus Thornton and their 3rd best player is uh, well, I think, maybe Isaiah Thomas was for real?) will be bad. The Rockets and Hornets look like they'd be competing for Eastern playoff spots to me, but they'll probably finish 15 games out in the West.

[IBProfane]

1. Oklahoma City Thunder
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. San Antonio Spurs
4. Los Angeles Clippers
5. Denver Nuggets
6. Memphis Grizzlies
7. Utah Jazz
8. Dallas Mavericks


9. Minnesota Timberwolves
10. Golden State Warriors
11. Portland Trailblazers
12. New Orleans Hornets
13. Phoenix Suns
14. Sacramento Kings
15. Houston Rockets

I'm surprised to see almost all the debate on this thread is over the Jazz. In my mind, their ceiling is 4th because they won't surpass OKC, SAS or LAL. I believe their floor is 10 or 11 (I'd be extremely surprised if they finished that low), no way they finish below NO, SAC, HOU or PHX. All these people saying the Jazz are going to finish 13th? Phoenix, Minnesota and Phoenix improved? So did Utah, Phoenix DID NOT improve, they lost Steve Nash and Grant Hill. Dragic is a nice player, but saying Phoenix improved means they finish 8th or higher. There is virtually no way that happens unless Beasley immediately realizes his full potential and it would still be a long shot.

I think many posters are sleeping on Denver, some people are overrating the Clippers. Golden State getting a little too much love, they are going to have some problems defensively and Bogut won't be able to help everyone. If New Orleans had a point guard besides Vasquez, I think they could contender for a playoff spot. If Brandon Roy returns to all-star form, Minnesota makes the playoffs over Utah or Dallas. There are going to be a lot variables in the West next year.

[mkflournoy]

This will be the best grizzlies team to date. Gay and Randolph will both be healthy. We lost OJ but replaced him with bayless, who can actually handle the point when conleys out, unlike OJ. Arthur is back, Wroten and Selby will contribute. We are going to be really good defensively again, and much improved offensively.

Conley/ Bayless/ Wroten
Tony Allen/ Ellington/ Selby
Gay/ Pondexter
Randolph/ Arthur
Gasol/ Speights/ Haddadi

[Nuggets_Talk]

my mavericks havent improved so we should give up some wins....
phoenix got worse
Portland hasnt improved
houston should be giving back 25 wins or so
Minny hasnt improved
Memphis hasnt improved
Kings havent improved
GSW havent improved (assuming Bogut and Curry miss their usual combined 75 games)
Spurs havent improved



Lots of teams will obv be giving wins back to the group and several should be around the same % as last year barring the obv injuries--unexpected drop-offs and break-outs

i dont think you have been paying attention. according to their fans, every single team in the west (except houston) is going to win more games and have a higher seed next year. fact.

[Nuggets_Talk]

the old dallas team used to get top 4 all the time. no question there.

but they arent finishing top 2. nor winning a title.

keep homering it up. its the offseason - the time homers live for.

Who said they're gonna win a title? Reading comprehension ftw.

fair enough but you said "Also, that roster is definitely upgraded, i would even say it's better than our championship roster"

mav fans love to use that one.

you definitely are NOT implying this mav team can win a title in 2013 so my bad on that.

[Nuggets_Talk]

I find it hilarious that people say the Grizzlies didn't replace OJ and have not improved. Have some of you kept up with the moves the team has made? The Rudy/ZBO argument is still being brought up. Truth be told, ZBO and Rudy played together in the 09-10 season and they looked great together. They also looked good together in 2010-11.

This is a team that won 41 games in a 66 game season without their best player for the most part. They brought back 7 rotational players: Conley, TA, Gay, ZBO, Marc, Pondexter and Speights. Added Ellington, Bayless, Arthur is back and should see some improvement in Selby. How does a team get worse that has improved every season since the 09-10 season with all of the injuries they've had throughout the past two seasons?

I guarantee that Memphis will at least be a top 4 seed in the West next season. I even have them winning the division, but its hard to say because the Spurs seem to never stop winning.

1) OKC
2) LAL
3) MEM
4) SAS
5) LAC
6) DEN
7) DAL
8) UTA

wait...what? you have them winning the division but its "hard to say"? you just said it. if the grizz dont win their division, you are then wrong and look stupid. if they win it, you look amazing.

[Nuggets_Talk]

This will be the best grizzlies team to date. Gay and Randolph will both be healthy. We lost OJ but replaced him with bayless, who can actually handle the point when conleys out, unlike OJ. Arthur is back, Wroten and Selby will contribute. We are going to be really good defensively again, and much improved offensively.

Conley/ Bayless/ Wroten
Tony Allen/ Ellington/ Selby
Gay/ Pondexter
Randolph/ Arthur
Gasol/ Speights/ Haddadi

oj mayo is better than bayless. by a lot.

they wont be top 4 (okc, lal, sas, lac) but i can see 5th or 6th.

[Mr Grant Hill]

denver fans think they have something to contribute? lol. please just contribute your 7th seed expectations and leave. thx.

[Inigo_Montoya]

1. Thunder
2. Lakers
3. Spurs
4. Clippers
5. Grizzlies
6. Nuggets
7. Mavericks
8. Timberwolves

9. Jazz
10. Warriors
11. Trailblazers
12. Rockets
13. Kings
14. Hornets
15. Suns

8 and below were tough to rank

[Nuggets_Talk]

denver fans think they have something to contribute? lol. please just contribute your 7th seed expectations and leave. thx.

awwww...