Which Trio would you prefer?

[Magilla_Gorilla]

I think a lineup of Rose/Harden/Lebron/Bosh/Howard would be decent.

Not enough spacing...

[nitetrain8603]

As a ridiculous oversimplification of the players:

Rose/Deng/Noah = All offense/Offense+Defense/Offense+Defense

Rose/Anthony/Asik = All offense/All offense/ All defense

Of all the arguments, team balance is not in favor of the hypothetical trio.

Since when did Deng become a 2-way player? This isn't 2007 or even 2010 in which he was better than he is now, but still no one who scares you offensively in his best years offensively.

Deng and Noah would only have one guy to pass the ball to since they can't score themselves. As Gordon would say in Batman...THERES ONLY ONE GUY HOLDING THE TRIGGER

Deng can't score? Are we only counting isolation scoring or something?

No, we're counting TS%, eFG%, isolation scoring and mid range scoring.

[nitetrain8603]

Boozer is still on the team. I am talking about closing out the game, where Boozer is out anyway. Melo and Rose are both scorers who are known for hitting big shots and can get their own. As for overall lineup, I think Melo only "plays dumb" because he is allowed to. Either way, it seems to work given the success of his offense. Being the second option to Rose with Thibs as HC would be incredible. I just don't see any good reason why he would be bad for the Bulls. I think part of it is because he plays for the Knicks and forced a trade to get there, but just simply for basketball reasons alone, you can't say no to the league scoring champ and one of the top MVP candidates who lead his team to the 2nd team. A lot of people have said he would need to be on a team that already has a leader on the court. We have that in Rose.

Regardless, the time for that has long gone.

I'm a big believer that players should be judged on what role they would play on a title team. I honestly think Melo is one of the few guys in the league that might be nearly impossible to win a title with. He's shot like crap for several years in a row in the playoffs. He doesn't pass. He's a below average defender most of the time. I don't really think he can adjust his game to being a secondary player.

I also think Noah is a great player, and much better than Asik. Noah is better IMO on both sides of the ball than Asik. Sure, Asik is better on D in the low post, but Noah is probably the best defender all around the court - the most versatile, best recovering big man defender in the league. He's also probably the best ball handling and passing C, and a great leader. He has a solid J now (even though it's not respected which is a problem), and he's a very good FT shooter for a big man.

I'm a defense-is-50%-of-the-game-guy. I think Noah is a better player than Melo. Not in a vacuum - but much more likely to fit into a title-winning lineup. To me, Melo isn't good enough as a #1 guy to win a title with, and is until-proven-otherwise incapable of playing a supporting role. I might be wrong, but I don't really like him anyway so I don't care.

They both play opposite sides of the ball. Are you saying, Noah's defense is better than Melo's offense? I disagree strongly. I also disagree in that Noah is better defensively than Asik. Offensively, he is. But if I have Melo and Rose on my team, I don't need Asik to score, I need him to defend and board.

[nitetrain8603]

So there are less than 35 players in the league who have any offensive game at all? Again, the point is he is not ALL defense.

In that case, neither is Rose nor Melo. Melo's defense this past season was at least on par with Deng's offense and I STILL don't know why you are calling Rose all offense. You don't want to go down that road.

He used raw PPG standings which is skewed by minutes. He also doesn't take into account skillset and how valuable someone actually being able to dribble the ball is. You might as well say Deng is a better offensive player than nate robinson.

Seriously. Crawford is able to create for himself, get his jumper off whenever he wants or gets to the lane whenever he wants. Without even looking up the stats, I'd say Crawfords PER36 are much better offensively than Deng's and his TS% and eFG% are better too.

[blumeany]

Noah is leagues better than Asik, just not on paper. His passing, ability to advance/handle the ball, ability to guard multiple positions, make him an anchor of this team. When we have more threats on offense, we'll see his passing ability become even more valuable. Unless his injuries become a more serious problem, you ride with him and Rose. You also see what Butler does this coming season. I think we'll get to see whether he has a ceiling and where that is. Then, you can decide to deal him or not. Right now, the guys you have to worry about are Deng and Boozer. Huge contracts that restrict the Bulls' financial flexibility and players not delivering value for what they are paid.

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[G I N T]

That depends on what we have at SG and PF, but if it's the same as what we've had the past few years, I'll take Rose/Anthony/Asik. Not saying they'd beat Miami, but I'd feel a lot better about their chances than with Rose/Deng/Noah. LeBron can no longer choose to defend Rose without the Heat suffering for it. Deng can't make Miami pay for something like this. And while Noah is more versatile than Asik, you still get outstanding rim protection and rebounding from Asik. It would definitely be worth it given the massive gap between Deng and Melo.

[nitetrain8603]

Noah is leagues better than Asik, just not on paper. His passing, ability to advance/handle the ball, ability to guard multiple positions, make him an anchor of this team. When we have more threats on offense, we'll see his passing ability become even more valuable. Unless his injuries become a more serious problem, you ride with him and Rose. You also see what Butler does this coming season. I think we'll get to see whether he has a ceiling and where that is. Then, you can decide to deal him or not. Right now, the guys you have to worry about are Deng and Boozer. Huge contracts that restrict the Bulls' financial flexibility and players not delivering value for what they are paid.

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The myth of Noah continues. Noah is a great passer, no arguments there. Asik, is as good advancing the ball and starting the break. Unless you mean actually dribbling the rock in which I and almost every other fan cringe when Noah tries to dribble the rock past the timeline. Multiple positions? I don't get that. And Noah's injuries have already been a major problem. Are people waiting for him to fracture a few bones in his bodies before they start worrying about his health?

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Asik, is as good advancing the ball and starting the break. Unless you mean actually dribbling the rock in which I and almost every other fan cringe when Noah tries to dribble the rock past the timeline.

Show me another Center in the league that's capable of doing this........

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BkOW7OllBE[/youtube]

[nitetrain8603]

Asik, is as good advancing the ball and starting the break. Unless you mean actually dribbling the rock in which I and almost every other fan cringe when Noah tries to dribble the rock past the timeline.

Show me another Center in the league that's capable of doing this........

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BkOW7OllBE[/youtube]

Ask and you shall receive:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ja0D68J4s[/youtube]

Show me Noah doing this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cn-EoNGVD4[/youtube]

Oh, and for good measure:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxdvNSgCEqU[/youtube]

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Asik, is as good advancing the ball and starting the break. Unless you mean actually dribbling the rock in which I and almost every other fan cringe when Noah tries to dribble the rock past the timeline.

Show me another Center in the league that's capable of doing this........

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BkOW7OllBE[/youtube]

Ask and you shall receive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ja0D68J4s

Show me Noah doing this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cn-EoNGVD4

And if Cousins wasn't a head case we'd be comparing him to the greats of the last 20 years. He is though so we don't.

[nitetrain8603]

Show me another Center in the league that's capable of doing this........

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BkOW7OllBE[/youtube]

Ask and you shall receive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ja0D68J4s

Show me Noah doing this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cn-EoNGVD4

And if Cousins wasn't a head case we'd be comparing him to the greats of the last 20 years. He is though so we don't.

Because Noah yelling at Ron Adams and getting into it with players his rookie season isn't being a headcase. Point being, you could turn it around in the right environment.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Asik, is as good advancing the ball and starting the break. Unless you mean actually dribbling the rock in which I and almost every other fan cringe when Noah tries to dribble the rock past the timeline.

Show me another Center in the league that's capable of doing this........

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BkOW7OllBE[/youtube]

Ask and you shall receive:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ja0D68J4s[/youtube]

Show me Noah doing this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cn-EoNGVD4[/youtube]

Oh, and for good measure:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxdvNSgCEqU[/youtube]

Haha....well played, NT.

Regarding the behind the back pass from Cousins, I'm confident that I could find similar passes from the best passing Center in the NBA...Joakim Noah. None in my back pocket at the moment, though .

Regarding the other clip, I have never doubted the physical ability of Cousins....only his mental state.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Ask and you shall receive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ja0D68J4s

Show me Noah doing this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cn-EoNGVD4

And if Cousins wasn't a head case we'd be comparing him to the greats of the last 20 years. He is though so we don't.

Because Noah yelling at Ron Adams and getting into it with players his rookie season isn't being a headcase. Point being, you could turn it around in the right environment.

Sure he could, but Cousins issues aren't limited to his rookie year or to even the NBA. Cousins has issues go way back.

[blumeany]

Noah is leagues better than Asik, just not on paper. His passing, ability to advance/handle the ball, ability to guard multiple positions, make him an anchor of this team. When we have more threats on offense, we'll see his passing ability become even more valuable. Unless his injuries become a more serious problem, you ride with him and Rose. You also see what Butler does this coming season. I think we'll get to see whether he has a ceiling and where that is. Then, you can decide to deal him or not. Right now, the guys you have to worry about are Deng and Boozer. Huge contracts that restrict the Bulls' financial flexibility and players not delivering value for what they are paid.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

The myth of Noah continues. Noah is a great passer, no arguments there. Asik, is as good advancing the ball and starting the break. Unless you mean actually dribbling the rock in which I and almost every other fan cringe when Noah tries to dribble the rock past the timeline. Multiple positions? I don't get that. And Noah's injuries have already been a major problem. Are people waiting for him to fracture a few bones in his bodies before they start worrying about his health?

Both Noah and Taj have the ability to switch on defense without being a giant liability. Asik has 0 ball skills and has barely learned how to finish around the rim. Do I also hold my breath when Noah brings the ball up? Yes. But he's rarely screwed things up when he has. I'm not trying to overvalue Noah, he has flaws. I think people are overvaluing Omer though. He didn't become all-pro in Houston. He just got better stats with more playing time.

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[blumeany]

Thibs isn't a miracle worker. The reason he's been able to get the most out of the guys he does is because each one has either had a good work ethic or was willing to grind. Don't know if guys like Howard, Cousins,or Smith (either one) would work that way.

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[Magilla_Gorilla]

Noah is leagues better than Asik, just not on paper. His passing, ability to advance/handle the ball, ability to guard multiple positions, make him an anchor of this team. When we have more threats on offense, we'll see his passing ability become even more valuable. Unless his injuries become a more serious problem, you ride with him and Rose. You also see what Butler does this coming season. I think we'll get to see whether he has a ceiling and where that is. Then, you can decide to deal him or not. Right now, the guys you have to worry about are Deng and Boozer. Huge contracts that restrict the Bulls' financial flexibility and players not delivering value for what they are paid.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

The myth of Noah continues. Noah is a great passer, no arguments there. Asik, is as good advancing the ball and starting the break. Unless you mean actually dribbling the rock in which I and almost every other fan cringe when Noah tries to dribble the rock past the timeline. Multiple positions? I don't get that. And Noah's injuries have already been a major problem. Are people waiting for him to fracture a few bones in his bodies before they start worrying about his health?

Both Noah and Taj have the ability to switch on defense without being a giant liability. Asik has 0 ball skills and has barely learned how to finish around the rim. Do I also hold my breath when Noah brings the ball up? Yes. But he's rarely screwed things up when he has. I'm not trying to overvalue Noah, he has flaws. I think people are overvaluing Omer though. He didn't become all-pro in Houston. He just got better stats with more playing time.

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And a much faster pace.

I'm still surprised though that Atlanta and NO seemed to have decided against pursuing him.

[Wingy]

That depends on what we have at SG and PF, but if it's the same as what we've had the past few years, I'll take Rose/Anthony/Asik. Not saying they'd beat Miami, but I'd feel a lot better about their chances than with Rose/Deng/Noah. LeBron can no longer choose to defend Rose without the Heat suffering for it. Deng can't make Miami pay for something like this. And while Noah is more versatile than Asik, you still get outstanding rim protection and rebounding from Asik. It would definitely be worth it given the massive gap between Deng and Melo.

My sentiments exactly. Unless you catch lightning in a bottle, you need at least 2 offensive creators.

[DaeDae]

The pace thing is the biggest reason I cringe at people comparing ASIK to Noah. And I'm not some Noah nut-huggger. I'd give him up for Aldridge. But he's plainly better than asik and there's no way around that.

[nitetrain8603]

The pace thing is the biggest reason I cringe at people comparing ASIK to Noah. And I'm not some Noah nut-huggger. I'd give him up for Aldridge. But he's plainly better than asik and there's no way around that.

PER36 stats were as good as his previous years in Chicago, if not worse IIRC. So pace would be an argument if he wasn't out doing the same thing with us before.

[Trm3]

Rose/Deng/Noah. Melo doesn't make his teammates better (hello Amare Stoudemire) and doesn't defend. Omer remains an offensive liability.

We don't need him to " make his teammates better" Rose is the superstar PG. Outside of passing Omer isn't any less offensively challened than Noah. Melos offensive ability more than offsets the difference in offense between Noah ans Asik and his offense is way more of a game changer tha Deng's defense. I also think Melo is a better defender than he has shown, but he is asked to do so much offensively and his coaches also haven't really demanded it of him. Thibs would get the most out of him.

I just don't see how that lineup can be stopped down the stretch, which has been our achilles heel especially when Rose isn't superman.

Melo doesn't have any offensive ability. He has "scoring" ability. That's all he does, he's great at it, though not efficient. Stoudemire was playing some of the best basketball of his career in NY until Melo came along. Lin was playing out of his mind until Melo came back from injury.

Noah does EVERYTHING better than Omer offensively. Passing, catching passes, ball handling, helping to break pressure defense by dribbling the ball and making the correct decision. Hitting the occasional tornado, the occasional lefty hook.

Melo only plays well with the ball in his hands. And it's not like he's LeBron or Wade where he drives, sucks the defense in, then finds the open man. He just shoots, all the time. He doesn't move without the ball like Wade does. He doesn't finish above the rim like LeBron and Durant do. Never was a fan of dealing Deng and Noah for Melo.

My goodness took the words right out of my mouth..actually u said it better than I would have but I feel the same but I'll go as far as saying I've never like him nor did I ever want him on our Bulls. Frankly, I'm glad he didn't want to be here cause I didn't want him.

Just another player this board overrates. The "BIG 3" on the overrate team:

Howard
Melo
Mayo