The Right time to make a BIG Move

[Jamaaliver]

Who trades anyone?

Isnt Pau an outright UFA? Why would we have to give up anything to get him?

I would just make a reasonable offer to him, I believe he hates being on that team with that management. I think he fits well in the system we have, and he could flourish.

Trading for Pau was my idea. I stand by it. I'd be hesitant to use all this summer's cap space on Pau and not have a starting spot for him.

it's an unpopular position. I accept it. The truth is even in his prime, winning championships and making All-Star teams and All-NBA teams, guys here were against adding Pau. They were more convinced our own PF would lead us to the promised land...

[PandaKidd]

Why wouldnt we offer Pau, then Trade millsap for something we need like a wing player?

Am I missing somethign here
Pau isnt making 20 million, hes prob in the 10-12 million range now

[Jamaaliver]

Why wouldnt we offer Pau, then Trade millsap for something we need like a wing player?

Am I missing somethign here
Pau isnt making 20 million, hes prob in the 10-12 million range now

Agreed. It all comes back to the same place. we either sign Pau and trade Millsap for a wing. Or we trade for Pau and then use some of that $10 million+ in cap space for a wing.

I personally think getting a good deal for a SF in Free Agency would be easier than trading an expiring contract for a wing we like on a contract we like.

[PandaKidd]

Understood. I think Pau + AH would be better than AH+PM. Thats just me.

We would have to sign/draft a REALLY athletic wing to compliment Teague, but I would like that team more than the tandem of AH and PM currently

[Jamaaliver]

On a less divisive note, we've been rumored for weeks to be chasing a draft pick in the top 10. In the unlikely event that DF actually gets aggressive and goes through with such a move, who would you guys think we'd be attempting to draft with, say, the #8 pick in this draft?

[Jamaaliver]

^I feel pretty comfortable guessing it's Dario Saric. Both our GM and Coach were overseas recently watching him play in their championship game. His skill fits our system very well. He'd be a matchup problem as a 6'10" point forward. He'd improve our rebounding. He's polished/experienced having played professionally for the last few years. He's been recognized several times for his individual play including being named Regular Season MVP and Finals MVP this year.

I surmise Ferry has a serious Love Jones for Saric and is willing to sacrifice Teague and/or Millsap to get him.
And if we manage to get Saric in the top-10 and still hold on to the #15 pick, we'd be sitting pretty for whichever young star fall out of the lottery and into our laps. (Rodney Hood, please!)

[ATLHawksfan21]

Jamaal I don't think your rationale is valid, or at least not how you're presenting it.

Pau is a future Hall of Famer... and Carmelo isn't? Carmelo has a better chance of making the Hall of Fame than Pau does.

I told you guys for years, Josh was not irreplaceable. The same goes for Millsap.

I agree that Milsap can be replaced. When it comes to a Milsap for Pau swap, I would just rather let Milsap play out his contract and keep the cap space that we will have going in to the next off-season where there is a loaded FA class. I used to want Pau a year or two ago, but he has some serious mileage on that 7' frame and I don't want to tie up cap space for 3 years in hopes that he stays healthy. He is certainly still capable of contributing when healthy but his signing won't get us to a title.

[azuresou1]

No one is saying Millsap is irreplaceable, just like very few people thought Josh was irreplaceable. You are constructing a strawman argument to try to prove your point.

You want to just sign a SF? What SF free agents are out there? Hayward? Decent but about to get paid. Deng? Garbage. Ariza? Overpaid role player. Parsons? RFA. Anyone else I'm missing? Melo who you hate and we wouldn't have cap space for if we trade Millsap for Pau. Paul Pierce? I guess he fits with your team vision of "old but used to be good 4 years ago."

Alternately you want to sacrifice TWO borderline All-Stars for the #8 pick? That's a terrible rate of return.

[Jamaaliver]

I agree that Milsap can be replaced. When it comes to a Milsap for Pau swap, I would just rather let Milsap play out his contract and keep the cap space that we will have going in to the next off-season where there is a loaded FA class. I used to want Pau a year or two ago, but he has some serious mileage on that 7' frame and I don't want to tie up cap space for 3 years in hopes that he stays healthy. He is certainly still capable of contributing when healthy but his signing won't get us to a title.

This is a very well articulated post. And while i fundamentally disagree with your conclusion, I fully understand your concerns and acknowledge that everything you've mentioned has merit.

I still believe, that if we put Horford next to an All-Star caliber Center, we'd be largely unstoppable in the Eastern Conference.

[Jamaaliver]

No one is saying Millsap is irreplaceable, just like very few people thought Josh was irreplaceable. You are constructing a strawman argument to try to prove your point.

You want to just sign a SF? What SF free agents are out there? Hayward? Decent but about to get paid. Deng? Garbage. Ariza? Overpaid role player. Parsons? RFA. Anyone else I'm missing? Melo who you hate and we wouldn't have cap space for if we trade Millsap for Pau. Paul Pierce? I guess he fits with your team vision of "old but used to be good 4 years ago."

Alternately you want to sacrifice TWO borderline All-Stars for the #8 pick? That's a terrible rate of return.

You lost me. For most of the past decade guys here dared me to name a forward capable of replacing Josh. They said I was an idiot with an agenda because I wanted Josh gone. NO one could replace his impact they said. (Seriously, this is why I spend so much time in the archives.)

We're attempting to mimic the Spurs. So, I'd construct a team built almost identical to that team. From 2005 - present.

As far as two borderline All Stars...I still don't follow. Millsap would be traded for Pau. Teague and Muscala (and maybe Jenkins) would be offered for #7 or #8.

That way we get the young prospect Danny Ferry likes and still have the cap space to pursue minor Free Agents.
I don't view Teague as difficult to replace.

[Jamaaliver]

No one is saying Millsap is irreplaceable, just like very few people thought Josh was irreplaceable. You are constructing a strawman argument to try to prove your point.

Also, this comment is very frustrating as I told you for years that Josh was easily replaced.

Josh Smith is one of the few reasons why we're in this game right now.

Yes, Josh Smith has his faults. So do most players in the league. What do you mean "it's not about the other players?" YES IT F***ING IS, YOU ONLY PLAY 5 PLAYERS AT ONCE. If he's so easily replaced, then find a suitable replacement for the team. It shouldn't be hard, right?

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1180008&start=33

[Jamaaliver]

I'm nothing if not consistent...two years ago, almost to the day:

And for that matter, Gasol and Horford would be the best Frontcourt in the Eastern Conference.

We'd at least have an advantage against CHI, Miami, NYK in that regards...

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1187805&start=18

[azuresou1]

Let's recap that same thread, since you apparently have some selective reading:

- You post a Josh Smith rant thread after a playoff game where he is the best player on the floor
- You suggest that we trade him for a Top 5 pick and sign Jason Thompson (checking... yup, still an overpaid bench big)
- HMFFL points out that it's unlikely we'll get a Top 5 pick for Josh
- I point out that Jason Thompson is garbage
- You put our lack of success on Josh
- I point out that Joe is worse and gets paid double, yet you don't mention anything about him, and that we SHOULD trade Josh but your rationale is empty
- You say he's easily replaceable and that he's not a Top PF
- I state that's not a legitimate argument for a trade, and ask you for players who can replace his production
- You then say we could trade Josh for MKG (the #2 pick)
- I point out that Charlotte would never trade the #2 pick for Josh, because any team that bad needs young talent
- You do that "no you're right" thing women do when they're losing an argument
- I ask you, again, for a list of players who could replace him
- You bump the thread this Feb gloating
- I point out that Millsap is better than he was in 2011/2012

You're posting this revisionist history where you're the lone visionary who had the foresight to trade Josh when everyone else fought tooth and nail to keep him - when in fact most people weren't opposed to trading him, they just realized that he wasn't the issue compared to the fact that we were committing $30M to Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams.

[Jamaaliver]

I'm honestly not even sure where this is going. I'm telling you, Millsap is not replaceable. Just like I told you guys Smoove was not replaceable.

You said, no one ever said Smoove isn't replaceable. Despite the fact that you and I went back and forth for YEARS on this issue.

PS I'd take Josh for a top 5 draft pick and Jason Thompson to this day.

[azuresou1]

... You need to seriously polish up on your reading comprehension.

PS You still don't seem to get the fact that no one was going to trade a Top 5 pick for Josh Smith

[Jamaaliver]

... You need to seriously polish up on your reading comprehension.

PS You still don't seem to get the fact that no one was going to trade a Top 5 pick for Josh Smith

But if a team is willing to trade a top 8 pick for Teague, we HAVE to take it, right?

We get a cheap young player who could be a top player soon, and we get the cap space to pursue a replacement, right?

This is really fun, BTW. RealGM fixed the archives so now you can simply view a poster's comments over the years VERY easily.

Why no interest in Paul Millsap? Mediocre defender, 27 puts him at the late side of his prime, is realistically a solid 4th option on a championship team, and plays arguably the most stacked position in the league.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1178671&start=6
I'd trade this guy for a championship winning Center ina heartbeat.

[azuresou1]

Sure if we can get an 8 for Teague, which I doubt we can.

It's funny how you can find the post but can't seem to find the title, which reads: Why isn't there more interest in <insert your guy here>?

Note who the topic creator is.

[theatlfan]

1st guys this is a bit out of control now. As far as the Gasol for Millsap deal, my only comment is that I'd guess that, if worse came to worse, we could deal Millsap for pure cap space without giving up an asset (and might even net one). Hence, by using cap space to sign Gasol, we still have all the options open in terms of fishing in FA for the wing or trading Millsap for one.

In terms of deals, my favorite deal would still be trading Millsap for RFA Parsons. HOU can find package Asik and T Jones up and shop for a better SF... h3ll, maybe they could add Lin and a 1st or 2 and land 'Melo - NYK wouldn't care about the extra $$ on those contracts.

^I feel pretty comfortable guessing it's Dario Saric. Both our GM and Coach were overseas recently watching him play in their championship game. His skill fits our system very well. He'd be a matchup problem as a 6'10" point forward. He'd improve our rebounding. He's polished/experienced having played professionally for the last few years. He's been recognized several times for his individual play including being named Regular Season MVP and Finals MVP this year.

I surmise Ferry has a serious Love Jones for Saric and is willing to sacrifice Teague and/or Millsap to get him.
And if we manage to get Saric in the top-10 and still hold on to the #15 pick, we'd be sitting pretty for whichever young star fall out of the lottery and into our laps. (Rodney Hood, please!)

1st I whole-heartedly agree that Saric would be our target at 8. Saric is challenging Vonleh for #5 on my personal Big Board, so he'd be my call even if we dealt up to BOS at 6. This is mirrored by the fact that we supposedly like Kyle Anderson who I feel would play a similar role that Saric would play for us, so I think we'd be very interested.

As far as 15, I kind of have the feeling that we'd pass on Hood. Maybe I'm wrong, but he's been falling pretty badly since the combine - a lot of pundits are thinking he's a 1-D player whose stock was artificially high since he was playing in Parker's shadow (which others see as a positive...). At this point, I honestly have no idea who we'd tab at 15. I'm just hoping that McDermott, LaVine, Payton, and Ennis are gone (well, as long as we don't deal Schröder) so we can get the guy who is the highest I could see on my personal board.

[Jamaaliver]

As far as 15, I kind of have the feeling that we'd pass on Hood. Maybe I'm wrong, but he's been falling pretty badly since the combine - a lot of pundits are thinking he's a 1-D player whose stock was artificially high since he was playing in Parker's shadow

I completely understand this. I've been up and down on him myself, especially since you 'sold me' on James Young instead. But Rodney Hood's game seems perfectly made for the Spurs style offense we run. And his skill set (and limitations) are almost identical to Danny Green when he came out of college.

I agree that we will likely pass himover, especially if Young or Kyle Anderson are available. But, I'm trying to evaluate personnel based on their potential fit in our system.

Hood needs to improve defensively, but I can absolutely see him fitting in well due to his IQ and shooting stroke.

Updated: There is apparently a growing possibility Hood won't even be available at #15.
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[PandaKidd]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... -On-July-1


Think Kyrie signs it?