Should Ryan Mcdonough be fired?

[thamadkant]

McD is a good GM fot acquiring young talent. He took on the job thinking of a long term rebuild. The 48 win season really messed up his plans. Sarver and the board are likely pressuring him rebuild quickly instead. He came on board saying flat out he is thinking of long term rebuild.


I will give him a chance to complete his vision because he did not lie and he has delivered in obtaining young talent. Building a playoff team is another matter... Thats when you trade and sign players to fit the team....

Suns have a lot of picks and tradeable assets... And young players. He has ticked a lot of boxes..

[NiqtheAntiq]

Its funny as my team (Memphis) is just in disarray in the front office as yall are these days.

Hornacek turned a 28 win team into a 46 one a few seasons back so he isn't the problem. The players may not be responding to him but that is McDonough's fault. He messed up team chemistry and made the backcourt smaller than it already was.

Also why on earth would Chandler be a good fit for this team, he is past his prime. Is Len that bad? Was Plumlee that bad?

honestly Memphis needs a shakeup like yall do. Throw us a trade offer. We can start out with Randolph for Chandler and move from there.

[RaisingArizona]

Its funny as my team (Memphis) is just in disarray in the front office as yall are these days.

Hornacek turned a 28 win team into a 46 one a few seasons back so he isn't the problem. The players may not be responding to him but that is McDonough's fault. He messed up team chemistry and made the backcourt smaller than it already was.

Also why on earth would Chandler be a good fit for this team, he is past his prime. Is Len that bad? Was Plumlee that bad?

honestly Memphis needs a shakeup like yall do. Throw us a trade offer. We can start out with Randolph for Chandler and move from there.

I'd gladly do that trade. And yes, Plumlee was that bad.

[DaleyBlind]

I still have faith in McDonough,

But i still feel he makes some WTF decisions, Signing Chandler being the most recent.

[DRK]

I know we signed Tyson to lure LMA....

But thats a hell of alot of money for a guy way past his prime.

I almost threw up when I saw the figures.

If LMA was a Sun now, the Tyson signing would be awesome. But since hes not, Tyson is just a bad player on a bad team with a worse contract

[bwgood77]

I know we signed Tyson to lure LMA....

But thats a hell of alot of money for a guy way past his prime.

I almost threw up when I saw the figures.

If LMA was a Sun now, the Tyson signing would be awesome. But since hes not, Tyson is just a bad player on a bad team with a worse contract

I know he hasn't been great in his first 33 games, but at least we only have to pay him about $46 million for about 255 more.

[NavLDO]

I was surprised to see that many comments in that direction on the yahoo article. Not THAT surprised because when I talk to people in Phx outside of the forum most blame the FO more. I definitely want him making that draft pick. He's put together a decent team. Being so much better than draft picks than team construction, maybe it would have made more sense to keep the Lakers pick and a pass first point guard (though still would have rather had Hood or even Kyle Anderson than Ennis though.

It's hilarious how fans talk out of one side of their mouth in how great Booker, Warren, and Len are, how awesome McD was for getting Bledsoe for $.25 and a cup of coffee, signing IT for pennies on the Dollar, signed EB and Knight for well below the Max, for even trading for a Combo-Guard in Knight who was almost an All-Star and was shooting 41% from beyond the arc (over the past couple years combined, not over the past month, of course), yet out of the other side of their mouths come the 'fire McD--he's a horrible GM' because he paid Chandler $13M per (not $15, as I've seen a few times on this forum).

At LEAST 50% of our issues stem from Morris. The other 50% from the coaching. The talent is there--Bledsoe, Knight, Len, Warren, with other young potentials like Goodwin, Booker, and Leuer.

McD isn't playing Tucker over Warren; McD isn't playing Chandler over Len; McD isn't playing the 2 PG se-up; McD isn't NOT giving developmental minutes to Goodwin, Booker, Warren, and Len; McD didn't cry and whine to the media because he had to share time with EB, and McD CERTAINLY is not playing Kieff/giving him minutes.

What is it you all want McD to do? Make a bad trade for the sake of making the trade? McD isn't going to make a trade until the deadline, or close to it, when he can better dictate the terms. For those that think McD is doing a poor job, or feel there is a better GM out there waiting in the wings, then please, by all means, tell us all who would do better with what he has to work with. Do you remember who was on our roster when we went 25-57? How many are still here? McD was asked to take over a team that was a ****, and turned it into a near contender overnight. McD has collected so many assets that it isn't even funny, and all anyone can complain about is that he traded away a top 5 pick that has still yet to be materialized, and when it is this year, how great of a pick will that be in a weak draft?

And quick, what would you rather have? Pay $17M per for the next 5 years for a 29YO PG with a PER of 13.4 averaging 5.3 Assts, 11.5 Pts, and .269 3PT%? Or a $14M per for 5 years for a 24YO with a PER of 16.99, 5.3 Assts, 19.8 Pts, and .344 3PT% or for the same price, a 26YO with a PER of 20.95, 6.1 Assts, 20.4 Pts and .372 3PT%...AND...a 2018 top 7 protected and 2021 unprotected pick? But...but...but the Heat are a playoff team!! Yep, they are, but it's DESPITE Dragic's play, not because of it. But...but...but Chandler's play is stinking up the joint. Yes, yes it is, but McD isn't playing him, that would be the coaches.

McD has put together a team with a lot of nice talent, and while it may not be a 'top 5-in-the-league' talent, it easily a playoff team talent team. It's up to the coaches to find the right mix, and I believe Horny IS trying to figure that out, but honestly, until Kieff is gone, and honestly, Tucker as well, this team is going to have a tough time. Warren's D is not good; got it. Then by all means, COACHES, fix it. He's young and healthy. There is no reason he can't be at least an average defender out there.

Bledsoe and Knight are 'short'; got it. Then don't play them together. We have Goodwin, Booker, and Weems. Horny can still get 28 minutes for each Knight and Bledsoe by only playing them together for a few minutes.

Coaches get paid for figuring out this kind of stuff. Well, by golly, figure it out. And in the meantime, we fans need to chill out for another 8-10 games when we are at the half way mark. By then, we will still have plenty of time to make a playoff push. We have the talent; Horny just needs to figure out the right mix, is all. At least, that's my opinion. If the collective 'you' do not feel that way, then I guess, yes, 'you' should want McD fired--or at least put on notice. But we went from a 6th man of the year candidate to a uncaring and idiotic fool of a PF. That's not on McD. What IS on McD is making sure that Kieff is gone by the trade deadline, and if he can't be traded, then cut your losses, because honestly, oh yeah, that's right, McD signed Kieff to a steal of a deal at the time, and we can easily 'eat' $8M for the sake of the team.

Ha-ha-ha...LOL! You got me on that one--yeah, maybe Playoffs is a bit 'over-zealous' in my thinking. But I still contend we have a better roster than a 12-21 team.

[No-Man]

The only move where I think the Suns FO has totally maken a mess is the Knight-Thomas switch with the picks involved in it, the difference between both of them, especially with their current contracts is not worth the difference between the picks swaped.
Other than that McD has been good.
My question is, is it Sarver's or McD behind those moves?
Dumping MMorris or signing Chandler look bad as of now, but both where moves that make sense under the assumption that LMA was a possibiltiy and he was, Chandler will be easily dumpable this summer after the C-FA market gets dry and some teams need a piece and have capspace.
And Morris is a fine player but having minutes for TJ is good.

[AtheJ415]

McD is a good GM fot acquiring young talent. He took on the job thinking of a long term rebuild. The 48 win season really messed up his plans. Sarver and the board are likely pressuring him rebuild quickly instead. He came on board saying flat out he is thinking of long term rebuild.


I will give him a chance to complete his vision because he did not lie and he has delivered in obtaining young talent. Building a playoff team is another matter... Thats when you trade and sign players to fit the team....

Suns have a lot of picks and tradeable assets... And young players. He has ticked a lot of boxes..

The thing is, like the Lowe article stated, we have consistently added young talent and have not exchanged young talent for veteran talent. The only move we've made that a rebuilding team wouldn't have from a talent perspective was moving Marcus, and we only did that because of obvious attitude and leadership issues.

I think the surprising win has not really impacted McDonough's actions. He's added young guys across the board and consistently. A team that is trying to rush through a rebuild would be dumping their young talent for vets, meaning we'd have been moving Len, Warren, Booker, and arguably Bledsoe for vets. We'd be moving the Laker pick for a guy more developed and older than Knight who you wouldn't need to go through these growing pains with. The only thing that changed was people's expectations, but I don't buy that McDonough has been rebuilding any differently than a long-term plan would've required. Tyson is the only guy who would point to something like that, and he has some remedial value to our youngsters, or at least theoretically did when we brought him on.

[AtheJ415]

McDonUh-Oh

Given that is their biggest gripe...

had Ryan gone to Marcus first and explained the trade

...
they would have no wind for their pissy sails.

I'm not sure I agree. Again, we're talking about two very self-entitled personalities. In their heads, they took a "discount" (which is laughable). We were the ones doing THEM a favor by reuniting them and allowing them to play together.

Alas, the moment McDonUh-Oh would have gone to Marcus to explain the trade, he still would not have taken it well. This whole "He didn't come to me like a man and tell me about the trade" stuff is blasphemy. They both would have went straight to social media and continued their b*tch-fest.

I agree McDonough should've called him, but let's be real--this is the Morris twins. They are the 2 most immature players I have ever seen, and have shown that well before this incident. Markieff would not be letting this go if they told Marcus about this trade.

[AtheJ415]

I have soured on McD since the last offseason. Initially I loved when he got the job, as he had a very solid background, was speaking very well, etc... But this asset hoarding mentality along with the 2 pg crap has gotten out of hand a bit, and so far I do not see evidence that he is learning (learned) from these situations.
We can look at each case differently, and make up excuses for him - and some of those are really legit - but if there is so much turmoil and bad remarks from players/previous players towards the management it just reeks bad business after a while. Where there is smoke there is fire...
I think he has one-two more seasons, depending on the outcome of this Kief situation, the development of our team (especially the young guys-his draft picks), and the "outcome" of some previous trades (hello lakers pick).
If we don't take steps forward in a season or two, or we'll have another case like Dragic/IT/Morri/Frye/Bledsoe, then I will want him gone asap.

His 2 PG "wish" might be just based on what he sees talent wise around the league. Right now there are more good to very good PGs than SGs. Players that may been that 2-3 in the past, now seem to gravitate towards 3-4(stretch) in systems. So if more talented SGs come into the league he might not be as big on the concept in the future.

I just don't understand why people call Knight a PG at this point. He's not. He's a 2 guard through and through. When we are healthy, he plays very little PG. Bledsoe is our PG.

[No-Man]

The thing is, if the Lakers pick end up been a top5 pick this season or a top5-10 next year, is it worth it the difference between Thomas and Knight (plus Cleveland's pick), because that is the big failure there.

[AtheJ415]

The thing is, if the Lakers pick end up been a top5 pick this season or a top5-10 next year, is it worth it the difference between Thomas and Knight (plus Cleveland's pick), because that is the big failure there.

Would Thomas really be okay here playing with Bledsoe though? And would Bledsoe be okay guarding 2 guards whenever Thomas plays? And why does everyone assume Thomas had this huge trade value? He was really, really good in Sacramento and ended up having to sign here for no money in Phoenix because we were his best offer. Nobody wanted him because he's so small and has a reputation as a ball stopper, neither of which has changed whatsoever in Boston. He's still a really good player there who is tiny and a ball stopper. I think he's undervalued, but GM's think differently.

I'm not sure what the answer to you question is. I will say that a top 5 pick, while it has value, has nowhere near the value many here are giving it. Look at the top 5 picks of all the recent drafts. How many are budding superstars? Hell, how many are better than Knight or Thomas? It's no surefire bet, this is a weak draft at the top, and the thing is, we've gotten top 5 players in all 3 of the past 3 classes imo even though we've drafted much later. Len and Booker were never supposed to be available for us to pick. Warren was a borderline reach but has proven to be underrated by GM's in general.

If we give up the #4 pick in this draft and Thomas in exchange for Knight and a late first, whether it's a win or loss depends on who we would've taken at 4, how good that player becomes, and how good Knight becomes. Knight's upside is much higher than Thomas due to height and athleticism. What concerns me is whether Knight will every defend. His offense is fine despite arguably bad shot selection, because he hits more than enough. If anything that points to upside to me because he would go from a good to elite offensive player if he improves his shot selection.

[AtheJ415]

Yes he should be fired!

There should be a thing called ACCOUNTABILITY!

Its McDs job and responsibility to field a competitive roster and yet after 3 years, we are worse off than where we started. Our win record is actually regressing year by year.

I don't want to hear how he drafts great or its just chemistry problem etc etc. As of now, all he has to show for after 3 years is a mish-mashed dysfunctional team. There should be no excuses. He needs to go!

How in the world are we worse off than when we started? This team with Dudley, Gortat, Scola, and the laker picks is the #30 team in the league for the foreseeable future. The only upside is if we sucked enough, and then got lucky enough with higher odds, to somehow get the top picks in each of the past 3 drafts, which is still amazingly unlikely.

[RunDogGun]

The thing is, if the Lakers pick end up been a top5 pick this season or a top5-10 next year, is it worth it the difference between Thomas and Knight (plus Cleveland's pick), because that is the big failure there.

It would all depend on who that pick ended up being. Could be a Thabett. This board has been crying "Tank for _____" for the last four years. Each of those years we could have drafted that somebody with our normal pick. It started with Perry Jones, then Shabazz, then Noel. The draft is a crapshoot. And then it also depends on who is picked with the Cleveland pick. Later picks turn out well at times like Jimmy Buttler. I agree that a higher pick with a GM like McD should yield a better player, but Len was a top five pick, and he is just as inconsistent as anyone on our team. So what I'm saying is it will take a while to judge that trade, and we can't make that judgement just by where the picks end up in number.

[rsavaj]

It's an interesting question.

We're in a much better place than we were the day before he was hired. We had Lance Blanks running the show, and his mismanagement set the franchise back in an incredibly significant way. We had Lindsey Hunter coaching, which was a joke.

McDonough turned the direction of the franchise around. 13/14 was an amazing year; it was a roster that shouldn't have fit together, but one good coaching job + a group of players that unexpectedly meshed later and we were in an amazing position going forward.

The last two years have not been as good, and as I said before, I'm always a "unless you're an elite coach, the coaching doesn't matter as much as the players" kind of guy. If I'm placing more of the blame on the players, then I have to place more of the blame on the man who constructed this team, and that's McD.

I've understood some of his moves in a vacuum(signing IT that summer seemed like a good idea, even with the chemistry concerns; signing Chandler suddenly seems like the most brilliant idea if Aldridge decides to sign with us, and he was SO close, even by his own admission). I've been really impressed with his drafting(Len/Warren/Booker are great, Archie is...well, he's Archie). I've appreciated how he's grown the overall talent/asset-base of this squad vs where we were beforehand.

But he's not perfect. He's made mistakes, and some of them could end up being really bad. I didn't like the Knight trade, even though I understood the logic of it; McDonough thinks that Knight is better than any player we could have gotten with that pick, and he may be right. I see Knight's talent, but I think his bball-IQ and overall decision-making ends up getting in his own way. He is his own worst enemy. He could be a really great player if he fixed some of his bad habits, but I'm not sure he ever will. If that Lakers pick turns out to be a blue-chip prospect, then we definitely made a bad deal.

The other trade I never understood was giving up IT at the deadline, but that's been discussed above.

So overall, I give him an A+ for 13/14, a B- for 14/15, and a D+ for this current season. Not a great trend, but when you compare that to the spectacular string of failures that plagued this squad under Lance Blanks's tenure, I firmly believe that despite his flaws, and despite the downtrend, McDonough is worth keeping*. It's his 3rd year on the job; let's see what he does with another 2 or 3 years.

*If NOTHING else, the man's draft record is a strong reason to keep him on board.

[TeamTragic]

Yes he should be fired!

There should be a thing called ACCOUNTABILITY!

Its McDs job and responsibility to field a competitive roster and yet after 3 years, we are worse off than where we started. Our win record is actually regressing year by year.

I don't want to hear how he drafts great or its just chemistry problem etc etc. As of now, all he has to show for after 3 years is a mish-mashed dysfunctional team. There should be no excuses. He needs to go!

How in the world are we worse off than when we started? This team with Dudley, Gortat, Scola, and the laker picks is the #30 team in the league for the foreseeable future. The only upside is if we sucked enough, and then got lucky enough with higher odds, to somehow get the top picks in each of the past 3 drafts, which is still amazingly unlikely.

We are not worse since that garbage team with Scola/etc. Come on guys. This team now has a chance due to McD. Before we had no assets, no picks (thanks Sarver) and no direction. At least now we know what works and what doesn't. This team can be better I just don't think it can happen with Sarver/Babby. Hornacek carries blame and that is because he is too soft, too nice and not fiery enough.

[Revived]

Speaking of Scola, he's been solid for the Raptors this season.

[Revived]

The thing is, if the Lakers pick end up been a top5 pick this season or a top5-10 next year, is it worth it the difference between Thomas and Knight (plus Cleveland's pick), because that is the big failure there.

And this is what Lowe was getting at as well. It's not just "McD haters", there are actually rational and unbiased people out there who are beyond confused with where we're headed as an organization.

[Revived]

I have soured on McD since the last offseason. Initially I loved when he got the job, as he had a very solid background, was speaking very well, etc... But this asset hoarding mentality along with the 2 pg crap has gotten out of hand a bit, and so far I do not see evidence that he is learning (learned) from these situations.
We can look at each case differently, and make up excuses for him - and some of those are really legit - but if there is so much turmoil and bad remarks from players/previous players towards the management it just reeks bad business after a while. Where there is smoke there is fire...
I think he has one-two more seasons, depending on the outcome of this Kief situation, the development of our team (especially the young guys-his draft picks), and the "outcome" of some previous trades (hello lakers pick).
If we don't take steps forward in a season or two, or we'll have another case like Dragic/IT/Morri/Frye/Bledsoe, then I will want him gone asap.

His 2 PG "wish" might be just based on what he sees talent wise around the league. Right now there are more good to very good PGs than SGs. Players that may been that 2-3 in the past, now seem to gravitate towards 3-4(stretch) in systems. So if more talented SGs come into the league he might not be as big on the concept in the future.

I just don't understand why people call Knight a PG at this point. He's not. He's a 2 guard through and through. When we are healthy, he plays very little PG. Bledsoe is our PG.

It's because he himself considers himself a PG and hates it when anyone calls him anything other than a pure PG.