OT: The next President of the United States: ★★★ Donald Trump ★★★

[League Circles]

I'm definitely down about voting for Hilary, though unless a third party candidate inspires me quickly, I do plan to vote for her. I oppose almost her entire platform. Nearly everything she says I disagree with. BUT, at least with her I don't have to worry about unprecedented disaster and maybe my wife being deported (a legal permanent resident but who knows what he'll try to get done).

Absolutely blew my mind that the dems let her get as far as she did. Of course when I saw how bad the dem primary candidates were I kinda got it.

[TheStig]

Being audited doesn't prevent you from releasing your taxes. He could release everything right now. He doesn't want to b/c he is a tax cheat and he doesn't want to show he hasn't paid any taxes, despite his income.

I would like to see his taxes but I also want to see the 33,000 emails that Clinton deleted that some may contain classified information and put our national security in danger. I think the media needs to push on both issues and not one.

Trump's tax "cheat" isn't technically illegal. If you find loopholes....you use them.

It's not? How do we know? He hasn't shown his taxes. Just recently we found out he directed a couple million in payments to his charity. If we saw his taxes, we could tell if he actually paid taxes on it or if he is guilty of tax evasion.

Add in the business fine he agreed to settle with a donation from his foundation? That's self dealing.

And what billionaire needs to do these things to save a bit in taxes. We aren't talking about millions or tens of millions. We are talking about tens of thousands.....

[dice]

Trump's tax "cheat" isn't technically illegal. If you find loopholes....you use them.

I know that. He's using the laws of the nation to his advantage and I really don't blame him. We would all do the same but what I am trying to say is that they are pushing the whole Tax thing hardcore but they don't even bother to push on the mess with the e-mails. Clinton and the media are one evil team that are just trying to destroy this country. I rather vote for Trump than for Clinton anyday. She's too corrupt in my mind.

We really don't know if he's cheated on his taxes or not, b/c, unlike every other person who has run for President since 1980, he refuses to release them. And I do very much blame multi-millionaires for not paying taxes. One reason I supported Bernie Sanders is to change the laws of the nation to stop that from happening.

i have no problem with him using every loophole he can find. as mentioned, almost all of us would. the loopholes themselves are the problem

As far as the emails, it sucks that they are missing but I'm not sure what you're supposed to find.

the biggest problem with the email situation: arrogance, foolishness, whatever you want to call it. she either thought she would get away with it or that there shouldn't be an issue with it. either way it's a problem. as for the actual harm done? very likely nothing. her private server was not hacked (that we know of). meanwhile the government account was. and the classified material? i'm not sure whether that's an issue of her having neglected to vet the info properly or if it just goes back to the server issue again

Meanwhile Trump (1) use charitable donations to pay debts (illegal) (2) hired undocumented workers to work at his casinos, hotels and gulf courses (illegal) (3) defrauded thousands and wasted millions of taxpayers money on his "university" (illegal) (4) advocated for the stopping and frisking of every person in Chicago (illegal) (5) threatened to ban Muslims from immigrating to the United States (illegal) (6) on numerous occasions refused to pay people who had done work for him (illegal) and (7) may have ignored government restrictions on dealing with cubs (illegal).

8) ogles his daughter (should be illegal)
9) advocates for putin (irresponsible at best)

And once we get into a comparison of the intelligence of the two candidates - ooh boy. Hope for all our sakes, Hillary wins. Trump makes W Bush look like Stephen Hawking.

that i'm not going along with. trump is not dumb. most of his acolytes are though, and that's who he's cynically playing to. which brings us to...

10) pretends (?) to be a racist to appeal to voters
11) pretty clearly IS virulently sexist

[warmonger]

Trump supporters don't care if he pays taxes or not. However, most Americans don't mind paying their fair share of taxes to support our troops, improve the infrastructures, and making America more livable for us all. Donald Trump thinks American POWs are losers, so it's not surprising that his supporters don't feel Trump should pay any taxes that would be used to support them.

[TeK]

Clinton Foundation and Clinton Campaign are two wholly separate entities that have never mixed funds. The Clinton Foundation is a charity with top ratings for the work they do across the world.

So you believe that Saudia Arabia is donating multiple millions to the CF to aid it's philanthropic efforts?

We men. You can assume.

It's fairly evident that yes, on paper, they don't mix funds, but do you actually believe that? I don't. Do you also believe that these people, as well as Soros and the Rockefellars would be spending this much money without some sort of handshake agreement? Hilary is more corrupt than what you're making it out to be.

[TeK]

He's a blowhard. The IRS only audits the last 7 years (which he hasn't ever released the IRS audit letter to prove) but that doesn't stop him from releasing 1980-2008.....

Being audited doesn't prevent you from releasing your taxes. He could release everything right now. He doesn't want to b/c he is a tax cheat and he doesn't want to show he hasn't paid any taxes, despite his income.

I would like to see his taxes but I also want to see the 33,000 emails that Clinton deleted that some may contain classified information and put our national security in danger. I think the media needs to push on both issues and not one.

https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/

[TeK]

Realistically speaking, I assume the majority of us are in IL. IL is so heavily dem favored that the vote for or against Hil won't really matter either way.

All I'm saying is I don't trust her motives behind closed doors, she will be an extension of the Obama campaign, we will still have a ton of debt piling up, and in 10yrs we will be a 3rd world country. The TPP will pass. This will be advantageous for big business, but may put the smaller guys out of business as they won't be able to turn a profit. To the average consumer this will be fine for the first few yrs. To the small business that has to close and fire 200ppl this will be a disastrous life changing event.

[gardenofsound]

I think people saying "3rd world country" lack some perspective on what that actually means... (I spent a lot of time in India growing up). We are nowhere close to that level of poverty... Anywhere. Not in trailer parks nor projects.

In general I don't trust anyone in politics that much. That said, if Obama were running this year, I'd vote for him. With an obstructionist Congress, he has still run the office with class and dignity. He has restored our image across the world. I'm no longer anxious that I will have to answer people's pointed questions about the USA as I did with Bush.

If Clinton is an extension of Obama, then please sign me up.

[TheSuzerain]

All I'm saying is I don't trust her motives behind closed doors, she will be an extension of the Obama campaign, we will still have a ton of debt piling up, and in 10yrs we will be a 3rd world country.

[greenl]

He has restored our image across the world.

Not so much- unless that image is of a blood thirsty war mongering nation that indiscriminately terrorizes Muslim countries with drone warfare.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/1-threat-peace-world-guess-who-its-us

[TheSuzerain]

He has restored our image across the world.

Not so much- unless that image is of a blood thirsty war mongering nation that indiscriminately terrorizes Muslim countries with drone warfare.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/1-threat-peace-world-guess-who-its-us

He undeniably has restored the US's image worldwide. There are a few exceptions (Russia), but the overall trend is quite obviously positive.

Most importantly, Western Europe:



There is a surefire way to crater our image abroad though!

[greenl]

He undeniably has restored the US's image worldwide. There are a few exceptions (Russia), but the overall trend is quite obviously positive.

Most importantly, Western Europe:


.

So we are, everyone agrees, the biggest threat to world peace. But collective confidence in Obama or Clinton by the Europeans means our image is 'restored'? Restored our image to what- exactly?

[TheSuzerain]

He undeniably has restored the US's image worldwide. There are a few exceptions (Russia), but the overall trend is quite obviously positive.

Most importantly, Western Europe:


.

So we are, everyone agrees, the biggest threat to world peace. But collective confidence in Obama or Clinton by the Europeans means our image is 'restored'? Restored our image to what- exactly?

Everyone doesn't agree. 24% of respondents said that the US is the biggest threat to world peace per your link. 24%. I'll also add that the data you are citing is from 2013.

Under Obama, confidence has been restored in America as an actor in global affairs. That's what that graph shows.

[dice]

Clinton Foundation and Clinton Campaign are two wholly separate entities that have never mixed funds. The Clinton Foundation is a charity with top ratings for the work they do across the world.

So you believe that Saudia Arabia is donating multiple millions to the CF to aid it's philanthropic efforts?

does it matter why they are doing it if she doesn't play along? will they get a refund if she doesn't do their bidding?

the answer to both questions is the same

it certainly doesn't look good, though. i think everyone can agree about that

It's fairly evident that yes, on paper, they don't mix funds, but do you actually believe that? I don't

so you think that hillary will be returning favors to donors that have never benefited her personally OR her campaign? how does that make sense?

Do you also believe that these people, as well as Soros and the Rockefellars would be spending this much money without some sort of handshake agreement? Hilary is more corrupt than what you're making it out to be.

soros? the rockefellers? they are philanthropists. that has never been seriously questioned. same with bill gates and warren buffett. you're really going to have to come up with better examples

[dice]

If Clinton is an extension of Obama, then please sign me up.

and she will be. her administration will simply exist to cement the gains that obama has made. i don't anticipate any substantial further gains, but it still wipes the floor with the alternative

the primary benefit of a clinton presidency would be to get more moderately progressive justices on the supreme court. probably by far

[greenl]

Under Obama, confidence has been restored in America as an actor in global affairs. That's what that graph shows.

No- it shows that 10 European countries have more faith in Obama than Trump/Bush to make better decisions. Interesting that each line on that graph is trending downward. And you are right- it is only 24% who feel that the US is the biggest threat to world peace- but that's over 60 different countries and we came in first by a wide margin.

[dice]

as for the national debt, it's a problem to be sure. but how big of a problem at this stage?



note that that chart projects forward an entire generation. and even THAT pales in comparison to the kind of debt the UK has experienced:



furthermore, we all know the kind of debt that would be accrued if trump's tax proposals went into effect. probably even him. of course, that doesn't stop him from trying to use the debt against clinton

what constitutes unsustainable debt? according to Europe's Stability and Growth Pact, it is anything over 120% of gdp IF the annual budget deficit is over 3%. and here is the USA's annual deficit as % of GDP:

https://caf-instforamericasf.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Def_As_Pct_GDP_Chart.jpg

if the deficit is below 3%, debt as % of GDP up to 180% is considered sustainable. only if the line is crossed into UNsustainability does the situation become urgent. so the debt situation in the united states is, though obviously a concern and unwise to maintain as a matter of fiscal responsibility, far from urgent

[gardenofsound]

I don't think there's anyone who can restore middle east confidence in the USA. We have eroded far too much of our goodwill there over the past 60-70 years, though the last person who may have had some goodwill built up out there would have been... Bill Clinton.

Meanwhile, in Africa, South America, and Asia east of Pakistan, Obama is seen in a very positive light, especially compared to Bush.

As a teenager traveling in India just before Iraqi Freedom until Obama's presidency began, I heard from anyone who found out I was American, how much they hated Bush and asked me why he was elected, as if I was partially responsible for his election and policy. I wasn't even eligible to vote, let alone having voted for him. The 180 in attitudes since Obama has been president has been astounding.

[dice]

Under Obama, confidence has been restored in America as an actor in global affairs. That's what that graph shows.

No- it shows that 10 European countries have more faith in Obama than Trump/Bush to make better decisions. Interesting that each line on that graph is trending downward. And you are right- it is only 24% who feel that the US is the biggest threat to world peace- but that's over 60 different countries and we came in first by a wide margin.

1) a correction is not the same as a downtrend
2) the united states is easily the biggest player on the world stage. as long as that remains the case it will always be a polarizing force. there is a certain percentage of foreigners that will always hate the US. the more genuine threats to world peace (and there are many) are splitting the vote

[TheSuzerain]

I don't think there's anyone who can restore middle east confidence in the USA. We have eroded far too much of our goodwill there over the past 60-70 years, though the last person who may have had some goodwill built up out there would have been... Bill Clinton.

Meanwhile, in Africa, South America, and Asia east of Pakistan, Obama is seen in a very positive light, especially compared to Bush.

As a teenager traveling in India just before Iraqi Freedom until Obama's presidency began, I heard from anyone who found out I was American, how much they hated Bush and asked me why he was elected, as if I was partially responsible for his election and policy. I wasn't even eligible to vote, let alone having voted for him. The 180 in attitudes since Obama has been president has been astounding.

I was abroad in Europe recently, and Trump was a frequent topic brought up whenever I said I was American. Usually in a mocking manner. Trump just has no hope of being an effective statesman.

I also got to witness the travelling Brits in there 20s melt down in real-time when the Brexit passed.