Luka Doncic Part III

[SportsGuy8]

Note that I wrote "as a prospect", compared to all the other players that either were in the lottery, or at least talked about.

Drazen, and a couple others that played around Drazen's time, weren't even considered real NBA prospects, as only rare NBA personnel even heard of them at the time.

Prospect does not mean NBA draftee. It means any young player with prospective ability. In terms of level of prospective ability, we could discuss for days European perimeter players that had more talent than Doncic.

With Doncic, it's not at all about his talent - it's about how good he actually is, and about how productive he is. But that's not the same thing as talent. He's nowhere remotely near being the top European perimeter talent ever.

In that sense you're obviously correct.

The term "prospect" isn't only strictly used in that sense, though. It's not just about one's talent, but the actual probability or chance of them playing and succeeding in the NBA. It comes from the original definition of the word as "The possibility or likelihood of some future event occurring."

OK, enough nitpicking.

[Bob8]

We cant compare anyone at 18 to Doncic because they havent really played competitive basketball at 18. And Aco Perovic is a moron so take that as you wish.

Im saying that Doncic doesnt have a huge ceiling and will struggle to reach Dragic's level while Bogdanovic who is and was a better shooter than Doncic might end up being better than Doncic if Doncic doesnt improve and struggles to adapt to the NBA game.

Dragic was a joke in Europe, he was shooting 27% for 3 and 70%Fts in his last season, when he was 22 years old.

Bogdanovic was shooting 20%, when he was 20 years old, 37% 21 year old, 35% 22 years old, 37% 23 and 43% 24 years old. Fts 80%. How you can say that Bogdanovic was better shooter? Doncic has 3 years to get to 35%.

Bogdanovic has elite shooting touch but had sub-optimal mechanics. Doncic has an average touch and sub-optimal mechanics. Yes, this is my subjective opinion. Anyway Bogdanovic is a pretty good shooter now while Doncic is yet to get there if he ever does.

and how Doncic with average touch can be shooting 61% for 2? A miracle?

[Alatan]

Dragic was a joke in Europe, he was shooting 27% for 3 and 70%Fts in his last season, when he was 22 years old.

Bogdanovic was shooting 20%, when he was 20 years old, 37% 21 year old, 35% 22 years old, 37% 23 and 43% 24 years old. Fts 80%. How you can say that Bogdanovic was better shooter? Doncic has 3 years to get to 35%.

Bogdanovic has elite shooting touch but had sub-optimal mechanics. Doncic has an average touch and sub-optimal mechanics. Yes, this is my subjective opinion. Anyway Bogdanovic is a pretty good shooter now while Doncic is yet to get there if he ever does.

and how Doncic with average touch can be shooting 60% for 2? A miracle?

A miracle in the form of Euroleagues trash rim protectors and defenders in general.

[Mirotic12]

I agree that Doncic has a good feel for the game but he is super athletically limited. It takes both skill and athletic ability to become a star.

Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Jason Kidd
John Stockton
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Tim Duncan
Ray Allen
Mark Price
Chris Paul
Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Carmelo Anthony
Paul Pierce
Yao Ming
Stephen Curry

No, it does not. Not one of those above guys was anything more than at best OK athletically. Most of them were no better than Doncic as athletes, or actually worse.

It's simply untrue that you have to be very athletic to be a star. Totally untrue.

Doncic is a below average athlete for his position witch is guard/wing. From that list apart from centers and power forwards, who is exactly a below average NBA athlete and is not a once in a generation shooter?

Are you being serious?

[Bob8]

Bogdanovic has elite shooting touch but had sub-optimal mechanics. Doncic has an average touch and sub-optimal mechanics. Yes, this is my subjective opinion. Anyway Bogdanovic is a pretty good shooter now while Doncic is yet to get there if he ever does.

and how Doncic with average touch can be shooting 60% for 2? A miracle?

A miracle in the form of Euroleagues trash rim protectors and defenders in general.

Now I believe you watched only 5 games. He’s shooting pretty difficult 2s.

[Mirotic12]

In that sense you're obviously correct.

The term "prospect" isn't only strictly used in that sense, though. It's not just about one's talent, but the actual probability or chance of them playing and succeeding in the NBA. It comes from the original definition of the word as "The possibility or likelihood of some future event occurring."

OK, enough nitpicking.

Except that the basketball world does not evolve around the NBA, nor the NBA draft. Every year, plenty of the best players and plenty of the most talented players are never drafted. So NBA draft pick should never be synonymous with talent. Especially for non-American players. Even then, all kinds of American NCAA players don't get picked either, despite many of them being far better than guys that do get drafted.

The NBA draft is nothing more than a dog and pony show to generate some interest to NBA fans after the season is over. That's it. In reality, the whole thing is a complete joke of a way to pick basketball players for a league.

And many of the best European players never played in the NBA, while numerous scrubs from Europe did play in the NBA. The NBA isn't the sole standard of what a player is, or isn't. No matter how much some NBA fans think that.

We cant compare anyone at 18 to Doncic because they havent really played competitive basketball at 18. And Aco Perovic is a moron so take that as you wish.

Im saying that Doncic doesnt have a huge ceiling and will struggle to reach Dragic's level while Bogdanovic who is and was a better shooter than Doncic might end up being better than Doncic if Doncic doesnt improve and struggles to adapt to the NBA game.

Bogdanovic...I don't know which one you mean, Bojan or Bogdan, but anyway, neither one of them is a better shooter than Doncic is. In fact, I think Doncic is clearly a better shooter than either of them. I'm not just looking at stats on a screen, and having zero context to them. From actually watching all 3 of them play a lot of games...Doncic is the best shooter of the three.

[Alatan]

Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Jason Kidd
John Stockton
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Tim Duncan
Ray Allen
Mark Price
Chris Paul
Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Carmelo Anthony
Paul Pierce
Yao Ming
Stephen Curry

No, it does not. Not one of those above guys was anything more than at best OK athletically. Most of them were no better than Doncic as athletes, or actually worse.

It's simply untrue that you have to be very athletic to be a star. Totally untrue.

Doncic is a below average athlete for his position witch is guard/wing. From that list apart from centers and power forwards, who is exactly a below average NBA athlete and is not a once in a generation shooter?

Are you being serious?

Larry Bird- better athlete than Doncic, much better shooter
Magic Johnson - better athlete, much bigger
Jason Kidd - better athlete and i dont think much of him anyway
John Stockton - better athlete
Steve Nash - much better shooter
Dirk Nowitzki - 7 footer and a much better shooter
Tim Duncan - center
Ray Allen - much better shooter
Mark Price - much better shooter
Chris Paul - was a much better athlete is a better shooter
Pau Gasol - center
Marc Gasol - center
Carmelo Anthony - trash player who also is a better athlete
Paul Pierce - still a better athlete
Yao Ming - center
Stephen Curry - best shooter ever

I didnt say a player must be elite athlete and have elite skills to be a star but that in general a player must be at least average in athletic ability to be a star unless he is one of the most skilled player that have ever stepped on the floor. Doncic aint that.

[Mirotic12]

Larry Bird- better athlete than Doncic, much better shooter
Magic Johnson - better athlete, much bigger
Jason Kidd - better athlete and i dont think much of him anyway
John Stockton - better athlete
Steve Nash - much better shooter
Dirk Nowitzki - 7 footer and a much better shooter
Tim Duncan - center
Ray Allen - much better shooter
Mark Price - much better shooter
Chris Paul - was a much better athlete is a better shooter
Pau Gasol - center
Marc Gasol - center
Carmelo Anthony - trash player who also is a better athlete
Paul Pierce - still a better athlete
Yao Ming - center
Stephen Curry - best shooter ever

I didnt say a player must be elite athlete and have elite skills to be a star but that in general a player must be at least average in athletic ability to be a star unless he is one of the most skilled player that have ever stepped on the floor. Doncic aint that.

Doncic is an OK athlete. He's obviously more athletic than you are claiming. He's more athletic than numerous players in that list. So you either have never seen Doncic play, or you are just going out of your way to say negative things about him.

Valid criticism is perfectly fine. Saying he's just alright athletically, is OK. Saying he's just average or whatever....but you are making him out to be something he isn't. He beats most of the players on the list in terms of athleticism.

Also, you are for some reason making Doncic out to be a worse shooter than he really is. None of your criticism comes off as being objective, to someone that regularly watches Doncic play.

You even managed to make Doncic smaller than he is, claiming Magic was "much bigger"....no, Magic was most definitely not "much bigger".

[Bob8]

Why we don’t just say what is obvious. Alatan sees Doncic as white Euro, who can’t jump. Nothing that we say will change that. And that’s how 90% of Americans see Doncic.

[Mirotic12]

Why we don’t just say what is obvious. Alatan sees Doncic as white Euro, who can’t jump. Nothing that we say will change that. And that’s how 90% of Americans see Doncic.

Very sad, but based on this forum, also seems to be very true.

[Alatan]

Why we don’t just say what is obvious. Alatan sees Doncic as white Euro, who can’t jump. Nothing that we say will change that. And that’s how 90% of Americans see Doncic.

Alatan sees Doncic as a player of average and below average skills that is hyped as the best European player ever and a probable NBA superstar. Would it annoy you if Stimac was hyped up to be the next Sabonis?

[VCfor3]

Why we don’t just say what is obvious. Alatan sees Doncic as white Euro, who can’t jump. Nothing that we say will change that. And that’s how 90% of Americans see Doncic.

I think most Americans see Doncic as a very very good player with the chance to be special. They are aware that most top European guard prospects are overhyped, but think that Doncic has the best chance to be the exception. What he has done at times has been crazy. He should have a pretty solid floor which is very appealing. As for his ceiling, it will depend on how much his BBIQ, vision, touch, etc are able to overcome his average athleticism. He could become just a decent starter or in the right situation could become a truly elite player. All top picks are a gamble but I think more people than not would say he is worth that gamble.

[JMac1]

Why we don’t just say what is obvious. Alatan sees Doncic as white Euro, who can’t jump. Nothing that we say will change that. And that’s how 90% of Americans see Doncic.

I think most Americans see Doncic as a very very good player with the chance to be special. They are aware that most top European guard prospects are overhyped, but think that Doncic has the best chance to be the exception. What he has done at times has been crazy. He should have a pretty solid floor which is very appealing. As for his ceiling, it will depend on how much his BBIQ, vision, touch, etc are able to overcome his average athleticism. He could become just a decent starter or in the right situation could become a truly elite player. All top picks are a gamble but I think more people than not would say he is worth that gamble.

Who do you want Doncic or Ayton?

[VCfor3]

Why we don’t just say what is obvious. Alatan sees Doncic as white Euro, who can’t jump. Nothing that we say will change that. And that’s how 90% of Americans see Doncic.

I think most Americans see Doncic as a very very good player with the chance to be special. They are aware that most top European guard prospects are overhyped, but think that Doncic has the best chance to be the exception. What he has done at times has been crazy. He should have a pretty solid floor which is very appealing. As for his ceiling, it will depend on how much his BBIQ, vision, touch, etc are able to overcome his average athleticism. He could become just a decent starter or in the right situation could become a truly elite player. All top picks are a gamble but I think more people than not would say he is worth that gamble.

Who do you want Doncic or Ayton?

I'm leaning towards Doncic personally and think that Memphis would go after him or trade down a couple spots if they get the top pick. With the team determined to compete again next year with Conley and Gasol, a center wouldn't make a ton of sense. SF would be the target with JJJ or Bagley being a decent fallback. Doncic also will hopefully transition quickly and have an immediate impact as a starter. Conley plays well off the ball so Doncic getting run as a point-forward would fit in well. The Grizzlies team defense and ability to put Green on the opposing team's better forward would also help cover some of Doncic's potential defensive liabilities.

[JMac1]

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Watch on YouTube

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Looks Athletic enough to me

[JMac1]

I think most Americans see Doncic as a very very good player with the chance to be special. They are aware that most top European guard prospects are overhyped, but think that Doncic has the best chance to be the exception. What he has done at times has been crazy. He should have a pretty solid floor which is very appealing. As for his ceiling, it will depend on how much his BBIQ, vision, touch, etc are able to overcome his average athleticism. He could become just a decent starter or in the right situation could become a truly elite player. All top picks are a gamble but I think more people than not would say he is worth that gamble.

Who do you want Doncic or Ayton?

I'm leaning towards Doncic personally and think that Memphis would go after him or trade down a couple spots if they get the top pick. With the team determined to compete again next year with Conley and Gasol, a center wouldn't make a ton of sense. SF would be the target with JJJ or Bagley being a decent fallback. Doncic also will hopefully transition quickly and have an immediate impact as a starter. Conley plays well off the ball so Doncic getting run as a point-forward would fit in well. The Grizzlies team defense and ability to put Green on the opposing team's better forward would also help cover some of Doncic's potential defensive liabilities.

Yup. If we get second or first pick, I think we end up with Ayton either way.......

[Bob8]

Why we don’t just say what is obvious. Alatan sees Doncic as white Euro, who can’t jump. Nothing that we say will change that. And that’s how 90% of Americans see Doncic.

Alatan sees Doncic as a player of average and below average skills that is hyped as the best European player ever and a probable NBA superstar. Would it annoy you if Stimac was hyped up to be the next Sabonis?

**** this draft if below average skills, white guy, who can’t jump is in conversation for top2 pick.

Alatan for Gms advisor, he knows the truth behind the myth.

Stimac comparison is spot on. Congrats.

How wrong are they, https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/3/12/17092408/nba-mock-draft-2018-luka-doncic-deandre-ayton-mavin-bagley-chicago-bulls-cleveland-cavaliers

Stimac at #1? Wtf?

[UcanUwill]

Evan Turner is his floor.

Oh come on man....Doncic is way better than Evan Turner. Hollis Thompson can't even stay in the end of Olympiacos' rotation in EuroLeague. Joe Ingles was a role player his whole time in EuroLeague....

I am sorry, but there is zero chance, absolutely zero, that Evan Turner would sniff the production Doncic has, if he was on Real Madrid.

You are way underrating Doncic here, big time.

I have no doubt Evan Turner would be a big star in Euroleague. He is 6'7 athlete with great PG skills, he would be Euroleague MVP contender easily. Just look how good he has looked in inferior competitions in the past. He dominated college and he looked great in those NBA Europe live games against European teams. Evan Turner is a damn good player, who now stuck in a bad situation, whenever he gets a chance at playmaking, he looks great, even when he is inferior athlete on the court. Put him against Euroleague teams, where he actually has athletic advantage and hes a superstar.

Joe Ingles was a role player in Europe yes, but he is a different player now. I can name probably 60 players who look better in Euroleague than what Ingles looked, but does that mean all these players would be better in the NBA than what Ingles looks now? Of course not, not even close.

[Bob8]

Evan Turner is his floor.

Oh come on man....Doncic is way better than Evan Turner. Hollis Thompson can't even stay in the end of Olympiacos' rotation in EuroLeague. Joe Ingles was a role player his whole time in EuroLeague....

I am sorry, but there is zero chance, absolutely zero, that Evan Turner would sniff the production Doncic has, if he was on Real Madrid.

You are way underrating Doncic here, big time.

I have no doubt Evan Turner would be a big star in Euroleague. He is 6'7 athlete with great PG skills, he would be Euroleague MVP contender easily. Just look how good he has looked in inferior competitions in the past. He dominated college and he looked great in those NBA Europe live games against European teams. Evan Turner is a damn good player, who now stuck in a bad situation, whenever he gets a chance at playmaking, he looks great, even when he is inferior athlete on the court. Put him against Euroleague teams, where he actually has athletic advantage and hes a superstar.

Joe Ingles was a role player in Europe yes, but he is a different player now. I can name probably 60 players who look better in Euroleague than what Ingles looked, but does that mean all these players would be better in the NBA than what Ingles looks now? Of course not, not even close.

Joe Ingels career stats in Euroleague,

5.6/2.7/1.7

Joe Ingles career stats in Nba,

6.7/2.8/2.6

Luka Doncic 18 years old,

17/5/4.5

How are this numbers comparable?

If Doncic will have Joe Ingles’s stats in his rookie season, he will be called a bust.

[UcanUwill]

Joe Ingels career stats in Euroleague,

5.6/2.7/1.7

Joe Ingles career stats in Nba,

6.7/2.8/2.6

Luka Doncic 18 years old,

17/5/4.5

How are this numbers comparable?

If Doncic will have Joe Ingles’s stats in his rookie season, he will be called a bust.

Interesting point, but does not prove stats from EL translate 1/1. I really doubt Doncic right now is 17/5/5 caliber player in the NBA, or is better than NBA vets like Turkoglu/Turner. Some of you need to set your expectations a bit lower.