Do you think Raptors NBA title is more impressive than Cavs NBA title?

[ropjhk]

I'd say the Raptors Run was one of the most unimpressive. Their championship literally has an asterisk in most people's eyes.

Why even write that, do you think that would garner you any credibility as a rational poster?

They beat a team without their 1st and 3rd best player in the finals. Literally nobody thinks they would beat a healthy warriors team. I can't think of a team who had more favorable circumstances in any finals of the last 20+ years.

Fun fact that people seem to forget is that Klay Thompson actually played in 5 of 6 finals games. These people also forget how the Raptors vastly outplayed the Warriors throughout the series and also how the Raptors beat the Warriors in both regular season matchups. The Warriors would not have won if Klay was completely healthy. Maybe they would have won if they had Durant, but we'll never truly know. I consider the overall evidence to be inconclusive, but if the evidence hints at anything it's that the 2019 Raptors matched up very well against the 2019 Warriors.

As far as thinking about a team with more favorable circumstances in the last 20+ years I guess you've already forgotten about the 2015 Warriors.

[Official]

Why even write that, do you think that would garner you any credibility as a rational poster?

They beat a team without their 1st and 3rd best player in the finals. Literally nobody thinks they would beat a healthy warriors team. I can't think of a team who had more favorable circumstances in any finals of the last 20+ years.

Fun fact that people seem to forget is that Klay Thompson actually played in 5 of 6 finals games. These people also forget how the Raptors vastly outplayed the Warriors throughout the series and also how the Raptors beat the Warriors in both regular season matchups. The Warriors would not have won if Klay was completely healthy. Maybe they would have won if they had Durant, but we'll never truly know. I consider the overall evidence to be inconclusive, but if the evidence hints at anything it's that the 2019 Raptors matched up very well against the 2019 Warriors.

As far as thinking about a team with more favorable circumstances in the last 20+ years I guess you've already forgotten about the 2015 Warriors.

The 2015 Warriors are a good example but Cleveland still had their best player and the best player in that series - Lebron. The warriors were without their best player KD. Very simplistic view yes but key pivotal point nonetheless. He was the their closer and would have been the best player in that series. I know the Kawahi bandwagon is fully loaded now but even those fans know KD was the better player. Also, I forgot about Demarcus Cousins, they got to play a hobbled version of him too - could barely get off the ground. But you essentially you agreed with me in your last statement - they had extremely favorable circumstances - No KD, No Klay for game 6, and a still injured Cousins.

[13th Man]

I'd say the Raptors Run was one of the most unimpressive. Their championship literally has an asterisk in most people's eyes.

Why even write that, do you think that would garner you any credibility as a rational poster?

They beat a team without their 1st and 3rd best player in the finals. Literally nobody thinks they would beat a healthy warriors team. I can't think of a team who had more favorable circumstances in any finals of the last 20+ years.

When you said the Raptors Run, this usually implies more than one series i.e. their run through the playoffs. Maybe you shouldn't have used that term as it could easily be misconstrued to mean their playoff run.

[13th Man]

Why even write that, do you think that would garner you any credibility as a rational poster?

They beat a team without their 1st and 3rd best player in the finals. Literally nobody thinks they would beat a healthy warriors team. I can't think of a team who had more favorable circumstances in any finals of the last 20+ years.

Fun fact that people seem to forget is that Klay Thompson actually played in 5 of 6 finals games. These people also forget how the Raptors vastly outplayed the Warriors throughout the series and also how the Raptors beat the Warriors in both regular season matchups. The Warriors would not have won if Klay was completely healthy. Maybe they would have won if they had Durant, but we'll never truly know. I consider the overall evidence to be inconclusive, but if the evidence hints at anything it's that the 2019 Raptors matched up very well against the 2019 Warriors.

As far as thinking about a team with more favorable circumstances in the last 20+ years I guess you've already forgotten about the 2015 Warriors.

Good post, and we still beat the Warriors in 6 games, not 7. Salty fans will never give us our due credit but that's fine. We're the champions, they're not.

[Drygon]

Stop using KD's absence to discredit Raptors' NBA title!

People on General Board always discredit KD's contributions for Warriors.

Warriors defeated Rockets & Blazers without KD & were still a title contender.

[JordansBulls]

Raptors title was more impressive because Kawhi faced actual competition on his way to the finals. Eastern Conference back in 2016 was an absolute joke which Lebron basically sleepwalked to the finals. Lebron also got a lucky break from Draymond getting suspended in game 5 because if that didn't happen Lebron would've got eliminated

This. Not to mention Kawhi didn't have someone who outplayed the other team's best player as well.

[tdotrep2]

beating sixers and bucks on way to the finals is one of the most impressive things any team has done, the fact that it gets looked over is laughing. Give me a list of championship teams with a tougher road.

[nikster]

I'd say the Raptors Run was one of the most unimpressive. Their championship literally has an asterisk in most people's eyes.

Why even write that, do you think that would garner you any credibility as a rational poster?

They beat a team without their 1st and 3rd best player in the finals. Literally nobody thinks they would beat a healthy warriors team. I can't think of a team who had more favorable circumstances in any finals of the last 20+ years.

Imagine thinking Raptors had it easier than facing a starting lineup featuring Mozgov, Shumpert, Delly and TT.

[queridiculo]

The Warriors were essentially at full strength and controlled the series against the Cavs.

I don't see how you can ignore the injuries to Durant and Thompson when making a comparison between the two.

[pingpongrac]

I'd say the Raptors Run was one of the most unimpressive. Their championship literally has an asterisk in most people's eyes.

Why even write that, do you think that would garner you any credibility as a rational poster?

They beat a team without their 1st and 3rd best player in the finals. Literally nobody thinks they would beat a healthy warriors team. I can't think of a team who had more favorable circumstances in any finals of the last 20+ years.

Do the 2015 Warriors not ring a bell? Love missed the entire series and Kyrie played one game, forcing Cleveland to trot out a starting lineup of Dellavedova/Shumpert/LeBron/Thompson/Mozgov with Smith, Jones (34) and Miller (35) off the bench for the remaining 5 games. The Warriors basically beat LeBron and a bunch of scrubs in 6 games.

KD was the biggest loss for either team; however, the Cavs missing their 2nd and 3rd best players for almost the entire series is bigger than the Warriors missing KD - who wasn't even the Warriors' clear-cut best player - for the series and Klay for 1.25 games. Cousins and Looney were hobbled at times, but that's not worth mentioning in the same breath considering they were the 6th/7th most important players for the Warriors this past year.

Toronto's entire playoff run was clearly more impressive than the 2016 Cavs, but Cleveland winning the Finals in 2016 was a more impressive feat.

[gh123]

beating sixers and bucks on way to the finals is one of the most impressive things any team has done, the fact that it gets looked over is laughing. Give me a list of championship teams with a tougher road.

Literally any other team ever.

[gpoon]

Why even write that, do you think that would garner you any credibility as a rational poster?

They beat a team without their 1st and 3rd best player in the finals. Literally nobody thinks they would beat a healthy warriors team. I can't think of a team who had more favorable circumstances in any finals of the last 20+ years.

Imagine thinking Raptors had it easier than facing a starting lineup featuring Mozgov, Shumpert, Delly and TT.

what are you talking about...

Mosgov > Draymond
Shumpert > Klay
Delly > steph
TT > Barnes
Lebron > Iggy

[tdotrep2]

beating sixers and bucks on way to the finals is one of the most impressive things any team has done, the fact that it gets looked over is laughing. Give me a list of championship teams with a tougher road.

Literally any other team ever.

explain

[Gooner]

the cavs were expected to win and lbj was recruiting any shooter he wanted, and he had love and irving.

The Cavs were expected to win against the 73-9 Golden State Warriors?

Yes.

[jimmy keys]

Guess you missed the first part about me despising the Raps. Take the backhanded compliment and move on it's about all I got for them.

I find it weird you 'despise' a team. There isn't a single team I despise in the league, I'm an NBA fan. All teams have their issues, all teams have their potential.

So very strange.

You're GM came out and said "F" Brooklyn so forgive me if I don't root for TOR and hope they lose. I find it even more strange that you like all the teams. I most certainly don't root for teams like NYK, BOS, LAL etc. It's about the most natural thing in sports to despise your teams rivals. It's healthy lol.

Aside from winning the championship that was probably the greatest moment in Raptors franchise history. Apparently they're erecting a statue of Masai in front of Scotiabank Arena in the likeness of that moment. The statue will feature Masai with his middle finger pointed directly southeast towards Brooklyn for eternity. I will link the article later when I dig it up.

So "F" Brooklyn & "F" everybody else too. WE THE CHAMPS!

[raptor jesus]

beating sixers and bucks on way to the finals is one of the most impressive things any team has done, the fact that it gets looked over is laughing. Give me a list of championship teams with a tougher road.

That's a very short list imo. Off the top of my head, within the last 25 years or so: '95 Rockets, maybe '11 Mavs.

[Joerezz7]

Stop using KD's absence to discredit Raptors' NBA title!

People on General Board always discredit KD's contributions for Warriors.

Warriors defeated Rockets & Blazers without KD & were still a title contender.

No they’re not. Cut it out. They swept a weak trash blazers team and only beat Houston one and a half game. They wouldn’t of beat the Rockets a full series without KD.
By the way the Warriors Finals record with KD is 9-1. Without him they are 8-10 which is a losing record. They would’ve beat the Raptors if they had KD

[BigtimeNBAfan]

No not even close. The Cavs beat a 73 win team which nobody has ever done in history. That outweighs a little tougher road in the ECF. Raptors also obviously faced a finals team with 2 stars injured including possibly the best player in the league in Durant. Sorry, congrats to the Raptors, but it wasn't as impressive.

[Hugi Mancura]

Regular season doesn't mean anything. Skill difference between top teams and bottom team is huge. If top teams would play seriously all regular season games there would be several teams in near history reaching that 70 win plateau, but because top teams know they can get to playoffs without even trying in regular season they are resting their stars. Only games that matter are playoff games. That Cavs team would have won almost 70 games if they would have wanted, but they didn't. Healthy 65 win team beating injured 73 win team is not a huge surprise. It is almost expected result. Toronto teams wasn't as good as that Cavs team, but they somehow won.

Who claims that they expected Toronto to win championship in the beginning of playoffs? I believe the amount of people is much smaller than the amount of people believing Cavs would win it all. Is it more impressive? I don't know, but it is a bigger surprise.

[Brofessor24]

Here's my take:

All NBA titles are equally as impressive, regardless if the favorite wins or the underdog wins.

If the favorite wins, it's more expected (but still impressive nonetheless).

If the underdog wins, it's more unexpected (but still impressive nonetheless).

When the above phenomenon occurs, it's because of the following: the favorite underperforming and the underdog either maintaining its usual level of play and/or playing better than it usually does. The difference between the amount of victories determines how much of an underdog the team with less victories is.

If the difference is 5 victories or less (ex: in 2011 the Heat only won 1 more game than the Mavs), the team with less victories is a slight underdog. If the difference is 6-9 victories (ex: in 2009 the Cavs won 7 more games than the Magic), the team with less victories is an intermediate underdog. If the difference is 10 victories or more (ex: in 2016 the GSW won 18 more games than the Thunder), the team with less victories is a heavy underdog.

A slight or an intermediate underdog typically only needs to maintain its usual level of play in order to beat a favorite that is underperforming. However, a heavy underdog needs to play better than it usually does in order to beat a favorite that is underperforming.