2020 Draft - Part II

[nate33]

Have to feel the Celtics are more likely to get a better pick than 9 in a trade but I can’t help fantasizing about the payitforward special. Who would you all draft at 14,26 and 30? For me it would be RJ Hampton Isaiah Stewart and Tyler Bey (or maybe Hampton Desmond Bane and Azubuike). So many solid 5s late I can’t bring myself to go with Achiuwa at 14

I'd love to come away with Achiuwa, Tyler Bey and Flynn. We'd probably have to package our #37 with the #30 to move up to get Flynn in the mid 20's.

[doclinkin]

Celtics might be trying to get a top 10 pick to trade for Jrue, as well as the Nuggets and others. That would also mean the Pelicans have no interest in those 3 firsts so the Celtics could be struggling to consolidate those picks. I would make that trade back IF we could trade 26 + 30 + 37 for 20 and take Josh Green. Come away with Achiuwa and Green, two of the best athletes, Green has great body control and quick release on his shot, and Sheppard has said we need to get more bouncy. We really need explosiveness on a team filled with TBj, Rui, Wagner, Bonga, Robinson, Bertans

Spoiler:

Good point about the Celtics having other motives to trade up.

If Okongwu and Halliburton are off the board, I'm happy to trade down with Boston and draft Achiuwa at #14. I'd probably do different things with those later picks. I'm not thrilled about Green position-wise. We already have Beal and TBJ to play SG. If you are looking for "bounce", why not just grab Tyler Bey? Especially since Green isn't really much more than a 3&D guard anyhow. He's not a playmaker.

Green does have outstanding athleticism measurements, though. 30.5" standing vertical, 39.5" max vertical, 3.12 second sprint, and a 10.64 lane agility. Excluding point guards, only Cassius Stanley and some guy named Jalen Harris are more explosive. Green has good size for a SG too: 6'-6" (in shoes) with a 6'-10" wingspan, though that's a bit small for a small forward.

Green is also one of the best positional defenders in the draft. Quick active and smart. Some games it seems like he defends every possession like he is in the final four. Every possession counts. Here, for instance, a random game against South Dakota State:

Watch on YouTube

[payitforward]

I'll just chime in here to point out that only 3 players in the past 12 years picked lower than 46 have done anything in the NBA before first being waived: Isaiah Thomas, Kyle O'Quinn, and Monte Morris. 3 guys out of 168 players. And only one of them was starting caliber.

If we are going to buy a pick, it better be in the upper half of the second round. Late second round picks merely take up a roster spot we should be using to try out G-League guys. At least G-Leaguers have some professional experience and can often step into an NBA game and fill a role. I'd rather have Jordan McRae or Gary Payton II than the 53rd pick in the draft.

This is an extremely useful corrective, nate. But, you've missed a few -- &, to me, they point to the fact that the curve might not be smooth. I.e. opportunity is available to the sharp-eyed.

2d half of R2 in 2018 -- the names I'd call attention to are:

#46 DeAnthony Melton -- a terrific player on his way to a long, productive NBA career
#47 Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk -- played 1265 minutes this year
#48 Keita Bates-Diop -- a solid journeyman in the making it would seem
#49 Chimezie Metu -- hasn't played a lot (but quite well in his low minutes). SA is said to be very high on him.
#54 Shake Milton -- another terrific player on his way to a long, productive NBA career.

This doesn't make your overall point any less valid -- not in the slightest! But it does indicate that some drafts seem to be stocked in R2 & others not.

[payitforward]

Hmmm - think I'll move the above to the R2 thread....

[Shoe]

Good point about the Celtics having other motives to trade up.

If Okongwu and Halliburton are off the board, I'm happy to trade down with Boston and draft Achiuwa at #14. I'd probably do different things with those later picks. I'm not thrilled about Green position-wise. We already have Beal and TBJ to play SG. If you are looking for "bounce", why not just grab Tyler Bey? Especially since Green isn't really much more than a 3&D guard anyhow. He's not a playmaker.

Green does have outstanding athleticism measurements, though. 30.5" standing vertical, 39.5" max vertical, 3.12 second sprint, and a 10.64 lane agility. Excluding point guards, only Cassius Stanley and some guy named Jalen Harris are more explosive. Green has good size for a SG too: 6'-6" (in shoes) with a 6'-10" wingspan, though that's a bit small for a small forward.

I think the combo of Green being 3 years younger and his jump shot is what elevates him over Bey for me. He seems to have a solid base with his feet and high wrist flick. They both averaged 1.5 steals a game.

Also you can see that high wrist flick when he attacks the basket. If he consistently shows that kind of touch around the rim it's just another way to punish close outs.

Spoiler:

[doclinkin]

The activity level and IQ elevates him over Tyler Bey for me. Slightly. TBey has awesome physical skills, but seems often like he is moving around underwater or unsure. Green is always working. He's a sure thing solid pro, if not a high upside freak of nature.

[doclinkin]

Good point about the Celtics having other motives to trade up.

Scuttlebutt is they are trying to trade Kemba and picks for Jrue, and Hayward for Myles Turner. If so, that Boston team would be a tough out in the postseason.

[pcbothwel]

The activity level and IQ elevates him over Tyler Bey for me. Slightly. TBey has awesome physical skills, but seems often like he is moving around underwater or unsure. Green is always working. He's a sure thing solid pro, if not a high upside freak of nature.

Agreed... Ive come down on Bey a little bit as of late. His awareness, physicality, and coordination/functional athleticism have me a bit tepid on him. Either way, he'll be gone in the 20's so it wont be an issue for us.

[WizarDynasty]

The activity level and IQ elevates him over Tyler Bey for me. Slightly. TBey has awesome physical skills, but seems often like he is moving around underwater or unsure. Green is always working. He's a sure thing solid pro, if not a high upside freak of nature.

Agreed... Ive come down on Bey a little bit as of late. His awareness, physicality, and coordination/functional athleticism have me a bit tepid on him. Either way, he'll be gone in the 20's so it wont be an issue for us.

I have been watching S. Bey and very unimpressed with his slow first step. He also doesn't have alot of explosiveness getting off the ground. Also appears to have a very poor standing reach for a small forward. Definitely not above 8'11 on reach. No explosive first step and doesn't have elite standing reach.

[DCZards]

Okoro: this is a kid who shot the 3 at .286 & shot FTs at .672. He wasn't a strong rebounder, his assists were low but his TOs were not low. In short, he did NOT put up good numbers as a college Freshman. That is who we'd be picking. That & not the idea in your or anyone's mind of what his "upside" is.

He might turn out to be really good. That goes without saying. All the same, I'd call him one of the highest risk picks we could possibly make at #9.

Then again, he might be gone when #9 comes around. In fact, word is the Celtics want to trade up to pick him. If they are hot to trot, & we could get #s 14, 26 & 30, we'd have committed highway robbery.

I’d be willing to take the chance that Okoro improves his shooting. He’s only 19 years old and it’s not unusual for young players to improve as shooters with practice and coaching.

As a 19 year old frosh at Cal, Jaylen Brown shot 29% on 3s and 65% from the FT line. His rookie season with Boston he made 34% of his 3s and shot 68% from the line. Last season, he shot 38% on 3s and 72% from the line.

From day one, Okoro brings athleticism, lateral quickness, defensive intensity and versatility, effort and work ethic to the Zards. Those are things you can’t coach and that you are unlikely to be able to instill into a player.

P.S.: I suggest you check out some of the videos of Okoro. He's a much better--and willing--passer than the assist #s show.

[Ruzious]

Okoro: this is a kid who shot the 3 at .286 & shot FTs at .672. He wasn't a strong rebounder, his assists were low but his TOs were not low. In short, he did NOT put up good numbers as a college Freshman. That is who we'd be picking. That & not the idea in your or anyone's mind of what his "upside" is.

He might turn out to be really good. That goes without saying. All the same, I'd call him one of the highest risk picks we could possibly make at #9.

Then again, he might be gone when #9 comes around. In fact, word is the Celtics want to trade up to pick him. If they are hot to trot, & we could get #s 14, 26 & 30, we'd have committed highway robbery.

I’d be willing to take the chance that Okoro improves his shooting. He’s only 19 years old and it’s not unusual for young players to improve as shooters with practice and coaching.

As a 19 year old frosh at Cal, Jaylen Brown shot 29% on 3s and 65% from the FT line. His rookie season with Boston he made 34% of his 3s and shot 68% from the line. Last year, he shot 38% on 3s and 72% from the line.

From day one, Okoro brings athleticism, lateral quickness, defensive intensity and versatility, effort and work ethic to the Zards. Those are things you can’t coach and that you are unlikely to be able to instill into a player.

P.S.: I suggest you check out some of the videos of Okoro. He's a much better passer than the assist #s show.

Right - Jaylen Brown is another in that same kind of mold for Okoro to follow. And he took a giant step up this past season.

[Ruzious]

Fellow draft enthusiasts, please feel free to test your skills in the draft contest in the Draft Forum. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2000703 - just for fun and bragging rights. Ignore the people taking it too seriously.

[WizarDynasty]

Jaylen Brown is also 4 inches longer with an 8'8 standing reach. Okoro is 8'4. Just imagine a 6'2 player guarding a 6'6 player. Dramatic difference.

i tell you who will really be good in about 3 years is jaden mcdaniels. If you look at his elbow, it is really coordinated and advanced. He shoots with a high elbow and he has good hip bend to as tall as he is. Kind of has the giannis all star potential once his lower leg strength fills out. He has number offense potential. The GM that takes him is going to look like a Genius in a few years. He got alot more hip bend training but you can see the signs are there. For a 6;10 guy...once he's get his hip bending training complete, it's going to be really hard to stop him. I mean like kevin Durant type unstoppable release points. Again just pay attention to his hips, he has difficulty maintaining a low hip bend but the effort is there, and he will only get better. He will be a franchise player if he keeps working on his hip bend.

[payitforward]

...trade 26 + 30 + 37 for 20 and take Josh Green....

First off, that's way more than one would have to give. Certainly 26 & 30 would buy 20 -- even that seems a little high. 26 & 37 is marginal to get 20 but it might work. But... I don't see the value you see in moving up from those picks.

Of course, this is all pretty speculative, since we don't actually have those picks! But, for one thing, there's a strong possibility that Josh Green will be there at #26. & if he's not, let's assume for a moment that we would be able to pick 3 of the following 6 guys with #26, 30 & 37: Bane, Tillman, Tyler Bey, Malachi Flynn, Paul Reed & Daniel Oturu.

If my intuition is correct, you like this in part b/c you think we only need (or can absorb, or... something) 2 rookies. Am I right?

I can't figure out why you think that, since we have a total of 9 players with guaranteed contracts, & 3 of them are Admiral Schofield, Jerome Robinson & Moritz Wagner, while a 4th is the expiring Ish Smith.

[Ed Wood]

I'm fairly happy spending a late first on Josh Green. Interrupting the flow a little here, but can I ask what exactly has sold people on the prospect of spending a mid-lottery pick on Precious Achiuwa? I think he's a draftable prospect - he had a decent one year in college and his physical markers are more than fine. I'm not as up in arms about the idea of using a late lottery or, better yet, a pick in the 20s on him, but what makes him a more exciting pick than, say, Jalen Smith? He's a little better built than Smith, but he certainly wasn't a better college player, and he's older.

The focus on Okongwu tracks very naturally for me - for one he was a very good college player and his strengths would make him a good fit - there's an appealing confluence of talent and need there. Achiuwa isn't really in the same neighborhood in either dimension to me.

[nate33]

Interrupting the flow a little here, but can I ask what exactly has sold people on the prospect of spending a mid-lottery pick on Precious Achiuwa? I think he's a draftable prospect - he had a decent one year in college and his physical markers are more than fine. I'm not as up in arms about the idea of using a late lottery or, better yet, a pick in the 20s on him, but what makes him a more exciting pick than, say, Jalen Smith? He's a little better built than Smith, but he certainly wasn't a better college player, and he's older.

He has elite athleticism and a great motor. Those are the two things you can't teach. You just don't see many guys that big and tall with that much agility, strength and balance. I love how he rebounds outside of his area. He's also nearly ambidextrous, finishing with either hand easily. I posted a highlight a few weeks ago of him making a 3/4 court pass with his left hand.

He is certainly very raw, but part of that is explained by him coming to basketball at a late age. He grew up in Nigeria and never picked up a basketball until 8th grade. And although he has a fairly low shooting percentage, his shooting form isn't broken. Ultimately he has one of the higher upsides of anyone in this draft. I don't think I'd take him at #9, but if we trade down to #14, I like him.

All of this assumes his personality markers and work ethic check out. Obviously, if he is a lazy bum who doesn't like practice, then nevermind.

[WizarDynasty]

I'm fairly happy spending a late first on Josh Green. Interrupting the flow a little here, but can I ask what exactly has sold people on the prospect of spending a mid-lottery pick on Precious Achiuwa? I think he's a draftable prospect - he had a decent one year in college and his physical markers are more than fine. I'm not as up in arms about the idea of using a late lottery or, better yet, a pick in the 20s on him, but what makes him a more exciting pick than, say, Jalen Smith? He's a little better built than Smith, but he certainly wasn't a better college player, and he's older.

The focus on Okongwu tracks very naturally for me - for one he was a very good college player and his strengths would make him a good fit - there's an appealing confluence of talent and need there. Achiuwa isn't really in the same neighborhood in either dimension to me.

at guy with 9'2 standing reach, elite lateral quickness, and high motor is normally gone with the top five picks of the draft. Anything he does on top of that is icing on the cake.
Now if hte medical shows that aChiuwa has some degenerative knee condition, or that he has mental health problems, then i believe we should pass. I don't think he will be there at 14, which is why Boston is trying to move down. He definitely fits the type of player that they need. They are guard oriented team that needs a high motor forward that can defend on the perimeter and challenge shots. there is no in the draft like Achiuwa. Again, I hate hyping Achiuwa because for all we know he could have an Andre Blatche...Javale McGee knuckle head personality. Josh Green and Smith will never be seen as your lockdown "scotty pippen forward.. draymond green forward". Your forward has to be the best defender on the team. Washington doesn't have one and they don't come around often. To me, if Achiuwa is there at 9, there is no way I am risking losing Pippen, because I want to look fancy, and show everyone how shrewd a GM I am. Most of these picks after the pick 20 are almost certain to not even be in the NBA after 5 years. This draft is like the Shawn Marion and even the Giannis draft. Okongwu is never going to be elite at defending in space and he isn't very long. Now if we find hat Okongwu has a 9'2 standing reaching insteal of 8'10. there is huge difference between 6'8 and 7'0 tall or 4 inches.
Jaden Smith is a project that hasn't grown into his body, not coordinated, I wouldn't count on him contributing for about 3 or 4 years. My main concern with Achiuwa, is this, is basketball is main love. I heard him mention how he wants to be seen as more than a basketball player. You can't speak like that until you are an allstar in nba. Secondly, he is from Nigeria and moved here when was 14. How closely will he evolve with the culture of DC. We see it with alot of players who are not from East Coast, will he be gone as soon as he gets the chance?
HOw well will AChiuwa's personality fit with Wall, Beal, and Hachi? He showed alot of leadership skills at Memphis, will his alpha personality fit with a guy like Wall who likes to take command on the court?
Maybe we need to draft more of a beta type player?

[pcbothwel]

Guys... I'm scouting RJ Hampton a little deeper, and while I wont say he is worth the 9th pick... We NEED to come of this draft with a guard.
I cannot believe how many talented PG/Lead guards their are in this draft. Hampton, Maxey, Lewis, Riller, Pritchard, Flynn, Winston, Jones....even Mannion and Cole Anthony... Im sure some will bust, but all these guys have place in the league even if they dont hit an AS ceiling. There are some nice FVV/Lou Williams guys and we need to get one for cheap to make a difference

[payitforward]

Okoro: this is a kid who shot the 3 at .286 & shot FTs at .672. He wasn't a strong rebounder, his assists were low but his TOs were not low. In short, he did NOT put up good numbers as a college Freshman. That is who we'd be picking. That & not the idea in your or anyone's mind of what his "upside" is.

He might turn out to be really good. That goes without saying. All the same, I'd call him one of the highest risk picks we could possibly make at #9.

Then again, he might be gone when #9 comes around. In fact, word is the Celtics want to trade up to pick him. If they are hot to trot, & we could get #s 14, 26 & 30, we'd have committed highway robbery.

I’d be willing to take the chance that Okoro improves his shooting. He’s only 19 years old and it’s not unusual for young players to improve as shooters with practice and coaching.

As a 19 year old frosh at Cal, Jaylen Brown shot 29% on 3s and 65% from the FT line. His rookie season with Boston he made 34% of his 3s and shot 68% from the line. Last season, he shot 38% on 3s and 72% from the line.

From day one, Okoro brings athleticism, lateral quickness, defensive intensity and versatility, effort and work ethic to the Zards. Those are things you can’t coach and that you are unlikely to be able to instill into a player.

P.S.: I suggest you check out some of the videos of Okoro. He's a much better--and willing--passer than the assist #s show.

Perhaps I came off as more "down" on Okoro than I intended. Of course he's a high-value prospect. & I'm sure he'll improve, being 19.

But... he still seems to carry more risk than most of the guys whom we might consider at #9. Who knows, perhaps he has an upside that warrants the greater risk?

[Gig18]

I like Achuiwa --- even at 9 --- if we're set on picking a big guy and Okongwu or Wiseman don't slide. He's got a good motor, good skills and early on he can concentrate on defense and rebounding. He's nimble, someone said he has a soccer background, and he's got really impressive body control and touch around the basket.
Having said that, I'm not sure they don't move around and pick a guard. Hampton, Maxey, Cole Anthony. Heck, if he slides, Haliburton.
And then, with as many interesting guys in the second round, maybe buy another pick. There are shooters, defenders, wings with upside and LOTS of guards.