Curry V Magic

[rtiff68]

A player can be so good at one facet of the game that it puts them ahead of another more well-rounded player in terms of overall impact.

...this, and also: when did Magic become some kind of impact defender? Saying that Steph "isn't nearly as good of a defender" is a bit of an overstatement. Both Magic and Curry are/were largely considered average-ish defenders; Magic led the league in steals twice, while Curry did it once.

Magic wasn't known for defensive stops but he atleast knew how to use his size and height to contest shots effectively better than Curry ever has.

I guess I don't see a hypothetical difference that is prominent enough to make the claim that Curry "isn't nearly as good of a defender," especially when you tacked it onto Magic's advantage as a passer...

[Johnny Tomala]

I still have Curry at 5th as PG:

1) Magic Johnson
2) Oscar Robertson
3) Jerry West
4) John Stockton
5) Stephen Curry
6) Isiah Thomas
7) Chris Paul
8) Jason Kidd
9) Bob Cousy
10) Walt Frazier

As a PG I won't ever rate Curry about Top 3, he may pass Stockton if he gets past him in All-NBA teams (Stockton 11, Curry 5), but tbh I'd take Stockton as PG every time over Curry. Chris Paul too, but Curry is better player than CP.

[Cavsfansince84]

I still have Curry at 5th as PG:

1) Magic Johnson
2) Oscar Robertson
3) Jerry West
4) John Stockton
5) Stephen Curry
6) Isiah Thomas
7) Chris Paul
8) Jason Kidd
9) Bob Cousy
10) Walt Frazier

As a PG I won't ever rate Curry about Top 3, he may pass Stockton if he gets past him in All-NBA teams (Stockton 11, Curry 5), but tbh I'd take Stockton as PG every time over Curry. Chris Paul too, but Curry is better player than CP.

If you're classifying West as a sg then I think anywhere from 4-6 is a respectable place to put him right now. In a few more years I'd say more like 2-4. Maybe #1 if you just aren't high on Magic at all.

[drchaos]

I still have Curry at 5th as PG:

1) Magic Johnson
2) Oscar Robertson
3) Jerry West
4) John Stockton
5) Stephen Curry
6) Isiah Thomas
7) Chris Paul
8) Jason Kidd
9) Bob Cousy
10) Walt Frazier

As a PG I won't ever rate Curry about Top 3, he may pass Stockton if he gets past him in All-NBA teams (Stockton 11, Curry 5), but tbh I'd take Stockton as PG every time over Curry. Chris Paul too, but Curry is better player than CP.

If you're classifying West as a sg then I think anywhere from 4-6 is a respectable place to put him right now. In a few more years I'd say more like 2-4. Maybe #1 if you just aren't high on Magic at all.

Cousy should be a couple spots higher but otherwise a great list.

[WarriorGM]

I still have Curry at 5th as PG:

1) Magic Johnson
2) Oscar Robertson
3) Jerry West
4) John Stockton
5) Stephen Curry
6) Isiah Thomas
7) Chris Paul
8) Jason Kidd
9) Bob Cousy
10) Walt Frazier

As a PG I won't ever rate Curry about Top 3, he may pass Stockton if he gets past him in All-NBA teams (Stockton 11, Curry 5), but tbh I'd take Stockton as PG every time over Curry. Chris Paul too, but Curry is better player than CP.

What are you even rating with that list? You differentiate between as a PG and a player? If Curry is not a PG what is he? What is a PG according to this list? Seems to imply this list is imagining some version of Curry minus some of his skills which wouldn't really be Curry at all.

[BoatsNZones]

Just some fun/crazy stats here:

Curry has made more 3's in the last 9 games this month than Magic made in the first 9 years of his career.

Curry could also go 0 for his next 500 on 3pt attempts and still have a higher career 3pt% than Ray Allen.

The Human Torch.

[Lockdown504090]

Just some fun stats here:

Curry has made more 3's in the last 9 games this month than Magic made in the first 9 years of his career.

Curry could also go 0 for his next 500 on 3pt attempts and still have a higher career 3pt% than Ray Allen.

The Human Torch.

curry could also play for another 12 years and not pass magic in dimes. This is truly a very interesting debate. Curry had durant magic had kareem. Curry had 1 title without durant, magic had 0 without kareem, but did make the finals, losing to michael jordan and pippen.

The argument can be made quite easily that if pippen went down, thats a W for LA, since scotties defense on magic was critical, since michael was getting that work from Magic, Whereas the warriors still needed six to beat lebron and timofey mozgof in 2015, then lost to the cavs when they played at full strength.

The gap between curry as a scorer is very much the same gap that exists between their playmaking, magic was offering a ton on the glass and in transition. Curry has that whole orbital gravity thing.

Then theres the whole HIV thing cutting his career short. Magic retired initially at 31. Curry is 32. The accomplishment magic has in that short period of time is mindboggling and the only guy whos done more in that span of time is mike. Curry will have the longevity though.

This one is super close right now, but I dont think its fair to put curry over michael at this stage yet.

[BoatsNZones]

Just some fun stats here:

Curry has made more 3's in the last 9 games this month than Magic made in the first 9 years of his career.

Curry could also go 0 for his next 500 on 3pt attempts and still have a higher career 3pt% than Ray Allen.

The Human Torch.

curry could also play for another 12 years and not pass magic in dimes. This is truly a very interesting debate. Curry had durant magic had kareem. Curry had 1 title without durant, magic had 0 without kareem, but did make the finals, losing to michael jordan and pippen.

The argument can be made quite easily that if pippen went down, thats a W for LA, since scotties defense on magic was critical, since michael was getting that work from Magic, Whereas the warriors still needed six to beat lebron and timofey mozgof in 2015, then lost to the cavs when they played at full strength.

The gap between curry as a scorer is very much the same gap that exists between their playmaking, magic was offering a ton on the glass and in transition. Curry has that whole orbital gravity thing.

Then theres the whole HIV thing cutting his career short. Magic retired initially at 31. Curry is 32. The accomplishment magic has in that short period of time is mindboggling and the only guy whos done more in that span of time is mike. Curry will have the longevity though.

This one is super close right now, but I dont think its fair to put curry over michael at this stage yet.

Yeah, I mean ultimately the only true comparisons they hold is that they play the same position (in an entirely different manner) and by all accounts/eye-test are the rare team-first superstars. I would argue that Curry's playmaking goes well beyond the APG, but Magic without question gets the nod there as a GOAT playmaker. You are also omitting the 2nd Finals Curry had pre-KD where it took multiple injuries + a suspension to the Warriors side for them to ultimately barely get edged in a game 7. They win it all things being equal (and not something I would bother to bring up if you did not go with the 2015 narrative).

Magic still clearly ranks higher for me on any All Time list, but Curry is still in his prime and adding to his stats/accolades. I can revisit this one in a couple more years.

[_qubik]

Not bashing Curry, he is the greatest shooter ever, and go nuts on the floor more often than not, but Magic for me is still the gold standard for passing and playmaker, he could do what scoring guards almost always can, impact more than the stat sheet and help teams win

Curry impacts more than the stat sheet as much as anyone today with the gravity he commands and the spacing he provides for his teammates. He's arguably the greatest impact stat crusher of the past decade - #1 in 5 year luck-adjusted RAPM, and that doesn't even include either of his two MVP seasons, where he was the unquestioned #1.

Thats why I said I wasnt bashing him, see, the guy is great, do record breaking stuff, but I would stick to Magic.

[WarriorGM]

Steph's playmaking is being grossly underestimated. Passes are bursts of offense. The gravity Steph possesses is a constant pull. It not only creates openings for passes and drives it creates spacing for shots.

I saw an attempt at recreating RAPM for Magic. If it was close to accurate, Magic isn't in the same tier as Curry.

[Lockdown504090]

Just some fun stats here:

Curry has made more 3's in the last 9 games this month than Magic made in the first 9 years of his career.

Curry could also go 0 for his next 500 on 3pt attempts and still have a higher career 3pt% than Ray Allen.

The Human Torch.

curry could also play for another 12 years and not pass magic in dimes. This is truly a very interesting debate. Curry had durant magic had kareem. Curry had 1 title without durant, magic had 0 without kareem, but did make the finals, losing to michael jordan and pippen.

The argument can be made quite easily that if pippen went down, thats a W for LA, since scotties defense on magic was critical, since michael was getting that work from Magic, Whereas the warriors still needed six to beat lebron and timofey mozgof in 2015, then lost to the cavs when they played at full strength.

The gap between curry as a scorer is very much the same gap that exists between their playmaking, magic was offering a ton on the glass and in transition. Curry has that whole orbital gravity thing.

Then theres the whole HIV thing cutting his career short. Magic retired initially at 31. Curry is 32. The accomplishment magic has in that short period of time is mindboggling and the only guy whos done more in that span of time is mike. Curry will have the longevity though.

This one is super close right now, but I dont think its fair to put curry over michael at this stage yet.

Yeah, I mean ultimately the only true comparisons they hold is that they play the same position (in an entirely different manner) and by all accounts/eye-test are the rare team-first superstars. I would argue that Curry's playmaking goes well beyond the APG, but Magic without question gets the nod there as a GOAT playmaker. You are also omitting the 2nd Finals Curry had pre-KD where it took multiple injuries + a suspension to the Warriors side for them to ultimately barely get edged in a game 7. They win it all things being equal (and not something I would bother to bring up if you did not go with the 2015 narrative).

Magic still clearly ranks higher for me on any All Time list, but Curry is still in his prime and adding to his stats/accolades. I can revisit this one in a couple more years.

That was the year curry was coming off an mcl right? if so i totally forgot about that, but i do remember the draymond thing. This is serious nitpicking but has always slightly annoyed me; I kinda wish curry checked draymonds nonsense a little more often, and even durant to an extent when he was there.

[2020]

You mean is Curry a better passer? No. He wouldn't even crack the top 10 all time if we're talking about stictly passing. He's a better player than either though. That isn't even for debate.

Curry is the closest thing to Magic Johnson we have today. Different players. But both as iconic and legendary. The point guard community waiting 20+ years for another transcended PG and they finally got it.

How is Curry the better player if he's not nearly as good of a passer or defender? The only thing he has over most is his scoring/shooting, but there's more to the game than just shooting so your post here makes no sense. All you're really saying here is Curry is the more popular mainstream star.

A player can be so good at one facet of the game that it puts them ahead of another more well-rounded player in terms of overall impact.

I'm sure were are all aware of that. But we are also aware that this is not Curry vs. Ramon Sessions it's Curry vs. Chris Paul (who many including myself have as a better PG than Curry).

To be fair, I CAN'T say Chris Paul is a better player than Curry but I can say CHRIS PAUL IS A BETTER PG THAN CURRY by a margin. I CAN'T say Curry is a better player than Nash either. Listen I get that Curry is a Supernova Flamethrower but there's more to talent than shooting. I'll even admit that Curry along with Shaq, and LeBron are some of the most amazing unstoppable forces I've seen in the NBA since I started watching basketball.

[cornchip]

All I can say is this...

I've watched both of them play and never once did I think Curry was a better player than Magic Johnson. Like it didn't enter my mind at all.

Around 87-90 Magic is only inferior to Jordan's prime and Lebron's 2nd Cleveland stint (I would say even with his Miami stint) imo.

[DCasey91]

Magic is like Lebron their offensive gameplay is just so much more robust than Curry’s is or ever will be.
I don’t rate Curry highly as a playmaker at all compared to other ATG PG’s.

CP3 as a point guard is better, Harden as a point guard is better, Lebron is just flat out better lol.

Curry is a combo guard more than a point guard.

Pound for Pound though he is one of the greatest ever. But there’s limitations when there’s monsters ahead of you. Just how it is

[70sFan]

I saw an attempt at recreating RAPM for Magic. If it was close to accurate, Magic isn't in the same tier as Curry.

These 1980s RAPM recreations are never very accurate because of not enough games available, but if they were close to accurate, then Magic is definitely in the same tier as Curry:

https://squared2020.com/1984-85-rapm/
https://squared2020.com/1987-88-nba-rapm/

1985: 8.92 (1st in the league)
1988: 6.62 (2nd in the league)

I wouldn't put much weight into these stats, but since you mentioned them - you are wrong again.

[Raps in 4]

How is Curry the better player if he's not nearly as good of a passer or defender? The only thing he has over most is his scoring/shooting, but there's more to the game than just shooting so your post here makes no sense. All you're really saying here is Curry is the more popular mainstream star.

A player can be so good at one facet of the game that it puts them ahead of another more well-rounded player in terms of overall impact.

I'm sure were are all aware of that. But we are also aware that this is not Curry vs. Ramon Sessions it's Curry vs. Chris Paul (who many including myself have as a better PG than Curry).

To be fair, I CAN'T say Chris Paul is a better player than Curry but I can say CHRIS PAUL IS A BETTER PG THAN CURRY by a margin. I CAN'T say Curry is a better player than Nash either. Listen I get that Curry is a Supernova Flamethrower but there's more to talent than shooting. I'll even admit that Curry along with Shaq, and LeBron are some of the most amazing unstoppable forces I've seen in the NBA since I started watching basketball.

The only metric that matters is a player's impact on winning. How they achieve that is irrelevant. Curry is one of the most productive players in NBA history.

[HeartBreakKid]

Curry goes from God like to the regular season to just....really really good but not like anything we've ever seen before in the post season.

Curry is "just" a 60 TS% shooter during his MVP seasons in the post season. 25-28 PPG on 60 TS% is certainly MVP caliber production and is elite in a year by ear basis, but not all time craziness. That's the thing - you can't really act like Curry is some omega unstoppable force because he obviously is not that God like, and the Warriors defense was generally the thing that translated better in the post season (they had a ton of great defenders, so it makes sense).

The gravity is great but without the god like scoring to go along with it it doesn't seem like he's the offensive goat in the post season - which is more important than being the offensive goat in the RS by a decent amount.


Generally speaking, it seems like Magic is a better post season player - which probably makes him a more valuable player overall.


Magic can create his own offense more consistently is probably the main thing. The passing vs shooting stuff is kinda obvious, so there is no reason to get into that argument - they both make their teammates better and both have played with some crazy stacked teams.

We've seen Magic play a bit more around more mortal teams to get an idea of what he can do though than Curry has.

[mdonnelly1989]

curry is a scam



ID rather have magic , oscar, kidd, nash, payton Stockton, I THomas ( the real I thomas) to play point for my team.
Probably there are other pgs id take over curry.


BTw magic lead a **** 90-91 roster to the finals, seriously it was an injured and old worhty, a bunch of old corpses like scott, thompson, drew, teagle, and a couple of green youngsters far from ready in divac and campbell.

[a8bil]

I get the sense that those trashing Curry's playmaking skills are box score watchers and don't see him play often. He is a fantastic playmaker...elite vision and passing skills. It's just that the GSW offense uses a lot of passing and off ball movement to create shot opportunities, which takes the ball out of steph's hands. Put him in a traditional offensive scheme and his assists will go up significantly.

[VanWest82]

This discussion feels like it should be crazy and disrespectful but I don't believe it is. I'd still go with Magic but I had to stop and think about it.