Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains

[C_Money]

I remember Rob Babcock making a similar comment like this and getting roasted by Jalen Rose in the press. Not a good idea to screw up team morale before the season begins.

[xAIRNESSx]

I remember Mike Babcock of the Leafs saying something similar the season before they won the Matthew’s lottery.

[NBA Sheady]

Honestly, I know Masai brought a championship with the the very short-term Kawhi / Gasol acquisitions, but when I watch the newer GMs like in NY, Atlanta, Chicago and Brooklyn making strong moves mixing young and older talent, it is hard for me to see the vision for Toronto.

My guess is the FO is creating a nucleus of young talent. Some of those guys will realize their talent and some won't. If a few of our top talents actually develop we can trade the rest and start searching for the vets to round out a roster. They likely don't think we're good enough to worry about vets right now.

I think it's much like Matt Thomas was an attempt to get a dead-eye shooter. I suspect they'll do this every year until one sticks.

Right now we have a hilarious amount of 6-9 ish guys with length. We'd never be so lucky as to have all of them develop but surely we'll try to build around the few who do.

I feel like they have these little experiments they run and they're not afraid to clean up when they make a mess. Matt Thomas got us a 2nd.

[original fan]

Well, from what I read i can agree with different view points, but in order to choose a path you have to be flexible and let things play out first.If we are bad like say 10 seed, tank to the bottom by overplayin young guys to get experience.From this view point, you get 2 benefits.#1 you accelerate young players growth#2 you add a high pick that could be a star.If our guys are playing out of their minds and we are firmly in the playoff picture, you don't freaking tank.It means that the value our guys is high thus enabling you to consolidate a couple of them with future prospects for a superstar .Generally speaking, this is analysis of our own team, the other side of the equations stands to be where the league stands.I can not see it even if all goes well for us beating the Brooklyns of this league in the next couple of years.So if we are to trade for a superstar, it has to be for a young one also, not for someone like Dame for instance, to align it both with the growth of our team and where the competition is at the moment.
Its a complicated process and not black and white, I did not even mention here the element of luck ,which makes things even more complicated.I for one believe in our leadership, they have gained my trust and respect in almost a decade.The only thing we can do prey for a bit of luck(we got the 4th pick after all,lol)

Ps:I do not see Fred being moved, he means way more to us than any other team.Even if we are tanking we need a mature leader, and I see him replacing Kyle there.And as far as salary goes, he will outplay it with his game alone this coming season.
The carrot being dangled if the right opportunity present itself is Seikam for a few reasons imo.

[Kingsway_fan]

Da yutes

That might fly pre Championship, post it's called an "inferior product". It's followed by a lot of canceled season tickets, a reduction in prices and subscription packages.

Team will be exciting to watch.. place will still sell out.

[MavCarter]

Honest question, if we're a lottery team again...like last year. What's the motivation for people to watch all year?

Do people think this fan base is going to actually stick around, like the Leaf's apathetic fan base?

Thinking about what fans want should never conflate with team building. If it was up to the fans we would have rescinded the kawhi trade and have no championship right now

[Syd-TK3]

Nick Nurse also did a podcast today where he said Scottie Barnes will play a lot. Multiple positions , get lots of reps

do you have the link by any chance?

nvm, found it, for those who want to listen to The Nurse (starts at minute 9)

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL29reW91dmVnb3Q1bWludXRlcy9mZWVkLnhtbA/episode/b2t5b3V2ZWdvdDVtaW51dGVzLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL2NmYzMwODI2LTQ2ZWYtM2E2MC1hOGQ1LWM0MzYxZDIxNGM4OA?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwjQxJfu6u_yAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQGQ&hl=en-CA

Hopefully they start Scottie he deserves all the minutes while Siakam out

[ash_k]

Nurse will find magic in the bottle this season

FVV/Trent/OG/Siakam/Birch ->. Biggest weakness is shot creation but hopefully Trent and OG developing will help.

Our biggest issue last year was our **** bench.

Dragic / Flynn / Barnes / Boucher / Precious / Yuta

Can Boucher find the shooting stroke he had early in the year?
How good is Barnes?
How good is Precious?
Will Flynn run the offense or try and score too much?
Will Dragic play with us?
Can Yuta be consistent?

So many questions with lot of upside potential.

Last year, our biggest issue was PLAYING ON THE ROAD ALL SEASON without a center.
From a 'shot creation' perspective then what is the difference between our 2019/2020 roster (2nd best team overall) and our 2020/2021 roster- Gasol's passing? Cause we certainly scored as many points.
AND dont forget to mention "we have Nick Nurse."

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Da yutes

That might fly pre Championship, post it's called an "inferior product". It's followed by a lot of canceled season tickets, a reduction in prices and subscription packages.

Team will be exciting to watch.. place will still sell out.

I'm of the mind that this is a good team as constructed.

But, if it's a 27 win team as some poeple/ESPN are pushing. There's nothing exciting about that, that's a slog.

[WuTang_CMB]

Nurse will find magic in the bottle this season

FVV/Trent/OG/Siakam/Birch ->. Biggest weakness is shot creation but hopefully Trent and OG developing will help.

Our biggest issue last year was our **** bench.

Dragic / Flynn / Barnes / Boucher / Precious / Yuta

Can Boucher find the shooting stroke he had early in the year?
How good is Barnes?
How good is Precious?
Will Flynn run the offense or try and score too much?
Will Dragic play with us?
Can Yuta be consistent?

So many questions with lot of upside potential.

I just dont see how we dont win 45 games barring any injuries. This has 13/14 written all over it for me and with better coaching - that's the key. Playing at home will certainly help.

And it will be a fun year because of the developmental growth stage of so many players.

1) OG - biggest one, expect another jump
2) Trent - had a nice jump last season, expect some more
3) Precious - solid young player with a ton of upside, will have some growing pains but the potential is there.
4) Flynn - with 15-20min a night and running bench mob 2.0, he will have a jump this season
5) Barnes - last but not least ... Nurse says he'll play a lot and mix him around the lineup. Up and down year I guess but the highs will have us all oozing of what he can be in 3 years.

Nurse seems to always put it all together and outside of Miami, Brooklyn, Milwaukee and Philly, I think we can beat any other team... we just gotta manage the schedule well.

[C_Money]

Are we even an exciting team though? A defence-first team with some possibly very ugly offence?

The casuals won’t go for that.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Thinking about what fans want should never conflate with team building. If it was up to the fans we would have rescinded the kawhi trade and have no championship right now

I agree with that.

I'm just not sure the push for the tank is based off talent on hand. More so, who we didn't pick. I'd bet a lot of the people pushing for another down year didn't want who we got.

[KrazyP]

And team tank will be in the game threads crying after every win. Should be a fun season.

Masai basically said nothing we dont already know. The average age of the rotation players is something like 23-24. Obviously there will be growing pains. The offense is going to be butt ugly at times.

The team will come out and try to compete for the first half of the season and then make an assessment on tanking after the all-star break.

Damn remember the days when Treadmill nation said we would NEVER tank and that we had to preserve winning culture? Ah good times.

Let’s just hope if Masai does intend to tank he does a better job than last season (albeit we did okay by getting lucky and jumping 3 spots so no complaints here just saying let’s make that push for bottom 6).

If the pro tankers aren't happy with a top four pick...when does it end. It doesn't seem like they actually have a plan.

'

This is where the disconnect between "blind tankers" and "team mediocre" comes from and leads to the toxicity on this board.

Ujiri is not an idiot. If the team struggles, he can tank towards the end of the season after a period of evaluation. His thinking is dynamic and flexible....it can change as the situation before him unfolds. If the team wins games, he will view that as a positive and build with that. Thats what led to the 2019 championship. i.e. he originally wanted to trade Lowry back in 2013 and tank but when the team started winning games he changed his strategy 180 degrees. Back in 2013, TWO didnt care about the turn around - they were adamant about the need to tank for Andrew Wiggins.

In contrast to Ujiri, team tankster is not flexible. If the team wins games early on, team tank will view this as a negative and will end up spamming the game boards about the need to tank and the need to trade everybody on the team over the age of 25. I personally find that stuff infuriating and I know other long time posters here do as well.

One last point, having young vets like Siakam/VanVleet on the team is NOT a bad thing. It brings some balance, structure and leadership to a team which is good for player development. In the absense of these types of players, the system on the floor can often become unstructured and chaotic which is bad for player development....one of the primary reasons most tanking teams fail. If the Raps win 40 games instead of 30 games because of VanVleet/Siakam, tank Nation will be pissed but I dont think Ujiri will be overly concerned.

[vulture]

Nurse will find magic in the bottle this season

FVV/Trent/OG/Siakam/Birch ->. Biggest weakness is shot creation but hopefully Trent and OG developing will help.

Our biggest issue last year was our **** bench.

Dragic / Flynn / Barnes / Boucher / Precious / Yuta

Can Boucher find the shooting stroke he had early in the year?
How good is Barnes?
How good is Precious?
Will Flynn run the offense or try and score too much?
Will Dragic play with us?
Can Yuta be consistent?

So many questions with lot of upside potential.

I just dont see how we dont win 45 games barring any injuries. This has 13/14 written all over it for me and with better coaching - that's the key. Playing at home will certainly help.

And it will be a fun year because of the developmental growth stage of so many players.

1) OG - biggest one, expect another jump
2) Trent - had a nice jump last season, expect some more
3) Precious - solid young player with a ton of upside, will have some growing pains but the potential is there.
4) Flynn - with 15-20min a night and running bench mob 2.0, he will have a jump this season
5) Barnes - last but not least ... Nurse says he'll play a lot and mix him around the lineup. Up and down year I guess but the highs will have us all oozing of what he can be in 3 years.

Nurse seems to always put it all together and outside of Miami, Brooklyn, Milwaukee and Philly, I think we can beat any other team... we just gotta manage the schedule well.

The defense will be special and we saw a lot of schemes in summer league, but the offence is a concern and if we can be average on that end, they can make the playoffs.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Are we even an exciting team though? A defence-first team with some possibly very ugly offence?

The casuals won’t go for that.

A bad team that plays defense is poison for fans. They won't watch that. They'll watch a competitive team that plays defense, though, so it really depends on the W-L.

[vulture]

Are we even an exciting team though? A defence-first team with some possibly very ugly offence?

The casuals won’t go for that.

If they win, the city will love them. also toronto loves hard working and hustling players so this team will be a hit.
don't forget the vibes of the young players.

[2019nbachamps]

Honestly, I know Masai brought a championship with the the very short-term Kawhi / Gasol acquisitions, but when I watch the newer GMs like in NY, Atlanta, Chicago and Brooklyn making strong moves mixing young and older talent, it is hard for me to see the vision for Toronto.

My guess is the FO is creating a nucleus of young talent. Some of those guys will realize their talent and some won't. If a few of our top talents actually develop we can trade the rest and start searching for the vets to round out a roster. They likely don't think we're good enough to worry about vets right now.

I think it's much like Matt Thomas was an attempt to get a dead-eye shooter. I suspect they'll do this every year until one sticks.

Right now we have a hilarious amount of 6-9 ish guys with length. We'd never be so lucky as to have all of them develop but surely we'll try to build around the few who do.

I feel like they have these little experiments they run and they're not afraid to clean up when they make a mess. Matt Thomas got us a 2nd.

I'm not endorsing what we are doing but the vision is pretty clear. Our goals are to try to build a winning team with young players under contract control + taking gambles on low risk, medium reward free agents. Our front office values cap flexibility than most other teams in the NBA. We have been one of the few teams in the last few years that hasn't had a single bad contract.

Obviously with low risk comes lower rewards. You need to make gambles via trades and free agency to enjoy upside benefits. We gambled by trading DeRozan + 1st for Kawhi (it was a gamble due to his unknown injury status + mercurial temperament + belief he wanted to go to LA). Fortunately, the gamble paid off.

Since then however we have been one of the most risk averse teams in the NBA which has contributed to us falling down the league's pecking order. Anyways, its clear the vision is our best shot of competing is through this model. My bet is they begin to take risks when they feel we are a couple of pieces away from being a true contender in the East.

To be honest I do not think there is a need for us to be impatient. There is almost nothing we can do now to compete with the Nets. Then you have the Bucks, and a few others clearly better than us. I think we just need to embrace at least 2-3 more years of rebuilding before fortune hopefully begins to favour us.

[Mikistan]

Da yutes

That might fly pre Championship, post it's called an "inferior product". It's followed by a lot of canceled season tickets, a reduction in prices and subscription packages.

Team will be exciting to watch.. place will still sell out.

No chance ticket prices ever ever drop in this market with our oligopoly owners

[Steelo Green]

Masai is smart.

This team as many have said is likely to be out of the playoffs with at best fighting to get in (my guess is they are 11-12 in the conference).

If they somehow surprise, these comments will be forgotten as Masai the genius built a team already succeeding.

The reality though if we’re back in the lottery is he can say well I said we are rebuilding before the season started.

[Dalek]

Honestly, I know Masai brought a championship with the the very short-term Kawhi / Gasol acquisitions, but when I watch the newer GMs like in NY, Atlanta, Chicago and Brooklyn making strong moves mixing young and older talent, it is hard for me to see the vision for Toronto.

My guess is the FO is creating a nucleus of young talent. Some of those guys will realize their talent and some won't. If a few of our top talents actually develop we can trade the rest and start searching for the vets to round out a roster. They likely don't think we're good enough to worry about vets right now.

I think it's much like Matt Thomas was an attempt to get a dead-eye shooter. I suspect they'll do this every year until one sticks.

Right now we have a hilarious amount of 6-9 ish guys with length. We'd never be so lucky as to have all of them develop but surely we'll try to build around the few who do.

I feel like they have these little experiments they run and they're not afraid to clean up when they make a mess. Matt Thomas got us a 2nd.

I'm not endorsing what we are doing but the vision is pretty clear. Our goals are to try to build a winning team with young players under contract control + taking gambles on low risk, medium reward free agents. Our front office values cap flexibility than most other teams in the NBA. We have been one of the few teams in the last few years that hasn't had a single bad contract.

Obviously with low risk comes lower rewards. You need to make gambles via trades and free agency to enjoy upside benefits. We gambled by trading DeRozan + 1st for Kawhi (it was a gamble due to his unknown injury status + mercurial temperament + belief he wanted to go to LA). Fortunately, the gamble paid off.

Since then however we have been one of the most risk averse teams in the NBA which has contributed to us falling down the league's pecking order. Anyways, its clear the vision is our best shot of competing is through this model. My bet is they begin to take risks when they feel we are a couple of pieces away from being a true contender in the East.

To be honest I do not think there is a need for us to be impatient. There is almost nothing we can do now to compete with the Nets. Then you have the Bucks, and a few others clearly better than us. I think we just need to embrace at least 2-3 more years of rebuilding before fortune hopefully begins to favour us.

To me building a winning team is a team that wins and makes the playoffs as a middle seed or contender. Whatever else is just treadmilling. Toronto literally won the title two years ago, so winning culture should be there.

Considering we have several big contracts and zero flexibility, I don't see the flexibility you do. I think the way we currently are constructed we don't even have a way to re-sign Boucher next year. Yet, we have Khem Birch signed for three seasons for some reason.

There is always the option to shed more of the salaries and fully commit to the youth. I hope Toronto just doesn't sit on its assets too long as has been the case the past few years.