Tatum VS Luka

[juanc]

Luka has find the Celtics G spot

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[Bob8]

Luka still has the edge on JT, as I think he's a tad more talented but I honestly believe Tatum works harder than him and kind of "wants it" more than him.

Luka's pretty commonly out of shape and somewhat injury prone - I wouldn't be mad if that's enough for folks to side with Tatum.

Genetics might also help though as I think that considering the way their bodies are built, even if he took off seasons as lightly as Luka,JayTat would still probably be in far better shape and gain much less fat than Luka.

Fat out of shape Luka is averaging near 30 points triple double. If Tatum takes of season as lightly as Luka, he might be in better shape than Luka, but almost unplayable. I believe Luka being out shape and doing what he does should be very scary for rest of the league.

[Mavrelous]

Here are the comparison this season between the 2, check both RS and PO.

I'd like to see the objective measure in which Tatum isn't an inferior scorer.
Playmaking is heaven and earth, Luka is a point forward, he runs the offense, Tatum passes off the double team or the penetration, this isn't slight difference, Luka was the maestro behind the most efficient offense until 2020.
Luka is also the better rebounder, Luka is the difference between DAL being an average rebounding team to horrible rebounding team.
What do we have else? yeah defense, Luka's metrics are better defensively, but I don't think he is the better defender, but claiming this difference make Tatum a better player, may slightly be affected by homerism.

[Drax]

Fat out of shape Luka is averaging near 30 points triple double. If Tatum takes of season as lightly as Luka, he might be in better shape than Luka, but almost unplayable. I believe Luka being out shape and doing what he does should be very scary for rest of the league.

Have you ever heard the term post-ASG-Tatum, it's a thing. The thing you say about Luka and his shape can be applied to Tatum and his mental state post offseason. If Tatum ever shows up for an entire season fully locked in you better hide your wings because he eats them alive.

[Harry Garris]

Tatum being tiers above defensively gives him the edge right now

And yet the Mavs were an elite defensive team this year even with Luka's alleged limitations.

Clearly he's not as good as Tatum, he just isn't athletic enough to be an elite defender. But he's not a liability either.

[Bob8]

Fat out of shape Luka is averaging near 30 points triple double. If Tatum takes of season as lightly as Luka, he might be in better shape than Luka, but almost unplayable. I believe Luka being out shape and doing what he does should be very scary for rest of the league.

Have you ever heard the term post-ASG-Tatum, it's a thing. The thing you say about Luka and his shape can be applied to Tatum and his mental state post offseason. If Tatum ever shows up for an entire season fully locked in you better hide your wings because he eats them alive.

You might look at Luka's post ASG numbers too, which are even better than Tatum's. Even more, Luka has beaten and was better individually in both head to head this year, last time after ASG in the Garden. So it's difficult to understand how Tatum is eating Luka alive. We have seen vice versa 2 times this year.

[Johnny Firpo]

Here are the comparison this season between the 2, check both RS and PO.

I'd like to see the objective measure in which Tatum isn't an inferior scorer.
Playmaking is heaven and earth, Luka is a point forward, he runs the offense, Tatum passes off the double team or the penetration, this isn't slight difference, Luka was the maestro behind the most efficient offense until 2020.
Luka is also the better rebounder, Luka is the difference between DAL being an average rebounding team to horrible rebounding team.
What do we have else? yeah defense, Luka's metrics are better defensively, but I don't think he is the better defender, but claiming this difference make Tatum a better player, may slightly be affected by homerism.

Crazy how they were LITERALLY the same three point shooter in the regular season. Darn near same number of attempts and same exact percentage. Thought Tatum would be much better.

[Bob8]

Here are the comparison this season between the 2, check both RS and PO.

I'd like to see the objective measure in which Tatum isn't an inferior scorer.
Playmaking is heaven and earth, Luka is a point forward, he runs the offense, Tatum passes off the double team or the penetration, this isn't slight difference, Luka was the maestro behind the most efficient offense until 2020.
Luka is also the better rebounder, Luka is the difference between DAL being an average rebounding team to horrible rebounding team.
What do we have else? yeah defense, Luka's metrics are better defensively, but I don't think he is the better defender, but claiming this difference make Tatum a better player, may slightly be affected by homerism.

Crazy how they were LITERALLY the same three point shooter in the regular season. Darn near same number of attempts and same exact percentage. Thought Tatum would be much better.

There's 1 big difference in their shooting. Luka's 3s are only 21% assisted, Tatum's 3s are 56% assisted. This is huge difference.

Similar situation is with 2-pointers. Luka only 10% assisted shots and Tatum over 40%. Luka is much better shooter, taking difficulty of shots in context.

[Drax]

Similar situation is with 2-pointers. Luka only 10% assisted shots and Tatum over 40%. Luka is much better shooter, taking difficulty of shots in context.

What about free throw shooting? No context of difficulty or assists.

[Gimli]

Why are you even so obsessed with these "two way player" arguments?

Giannis is 1x DPOY and couldn't do **** against Doncic in the last game. Also the entire Bucks team couldn't stop him. It doesn't matter how good Giannis is on defense, he can't stop Doncic. Likewise Doncic can't stop Giannis. But Doncic will do much more damage on offense than Giannis.

And it's similar with Tatum. Tatum won't be able to guard Doncic at all and Doncic won't be able to guard him, but Doncic will outproduce him on offense.

And in case you haven't noticed, the Mavs have like 3rd best defense in 2022, with the lineup of Doncic Brunson Bullock DFS and Powell.... Doncic can't be so terrible, if they are the 3rd best defense in the nba...


You can bring this "two way player" when Derozan faces Giannis or whenever you want, but the fact is, no one will stop Doncic and Doncic won't stop anyone and the Mavs lineup of Brunson + Doncic + Bullock + DFS + Powell will still do an extremely good job on defense and the opposing team will somehow try to limit Doncic as well... And the Mavs and the Celtics have similarly good defense anyway. There is absolutely no way you can bring Tatum being some good defender against Doncic...

[SelfishPlayer]

This has been discussed in the media for several seasons now. The people who chose Tatum I thought were wrong by a large degree. But with this playoff series against Durant, Tatum looks like the better overall player and who you would want to build a team with. There is no shortage of guards that can get you 30 if you put the ball in their hands. Luka gets in the way of that guard because that's his role and then some. Tatum can play with that guard. Tatum can play with Luka. Luka can't play with Luka! Look at how well Tyrese Haliburton plays without D. Fox. Haliburton and Luka can't play to their best together. Tatum can be Tatum no matter who is dominating the ball. That's rare.

[Gimli]

This has been discussed in the media for several seasons now. The people who chose Tatum I thought were wrong by a large degree. But with this playoff series against Durant, Tatum looks like the better overall player and who you would want to build a team with. There is no shortage of guards that can get you 30 if you put the ball in their hands. Luka gets in the way of that guard because that's his role and then some. Tatum can play with that guard. Tatum can play with Luka. Luka can't play with Luka! Look at how well Tyrese Haliburton plays without D. Fox. Haliburton and Luka can't play to their best together. Tatum can be Tatum no matter who is dominating the ball. That's rare.

Tell that to Donovan Mitchell.
First give him Jaylen Brown and then we'll see how Luka plays with another star. Tatum is being Tatum, because he's not a playmaker. If you give him the ball all the time, he'll just shoot a bunch of times himself. Luka actually assists other people, so he won't be the only one scoring. And Tatum needs other people to assist him much more than Doncic needs them. Maybe also that is the reason why Tatum doesn't hold the ball as much, because he would just get an inefficient shot...

And THJ was completely fine playing next to Doncic... Got a bunch of free points from him, nice contract (too big for him) and he could play iso 1 on 1 all the time. Brunson only suddenly became much more better player. In January he wasn't yet as good as he is right now.

You can also say that DFS thrives much more next to Doncic. And he wouldn't get not nearly as many open 3 pointers next to Tatum. So perhaps Tatum does allow other star to have more of the ball in his hands, but for other rotational players, like Powell, Bullock, DFS, Kleber they would much rather play with Doncic than with Tatum. Just look at how many open points Gobert gets from Mitchell, before critizing Doncic from holding the ball so much.

[Bob8]

Similar situation is with 2-pointers. Luka only 10% assisted shots and Tatum over 40%. Luka is much better shooter, taking difficulty of shots in context.

What about free throw shooting? No context of difficulty or assists.

Luka is scoring more points with slightly better % creating more or less everything by himself. That's kinda difficult. If we add that he's much better passer with doubled assists number, it's obvious that he's offensive monster, offensive system by himself. Tatum is not even close to that. And Luka is doing all that being fat.

I give you that Tatum is better FT shooter. FT shooting is interesting though, Luka was over 80% FT shooter in Europe, so it's either mental thing or maybe his bad conditioning has something to do with it.

[Bob8]

This has been discussed in the media for several seasons now. The people who chose Tatum I thought were wrong by a large degree. But with this playoff series against Durant, Tatum looks like the better overall player and who you would want to build a team with. There is no shortage of guards that can get you 30 if you put the ball in their hands. Luka gets in the way of that guard because that's his role and then some. Tatum can play with that guard. Tatum can play with Luka. Luka can't play with Luka! Look at how well Tyrese Haliburton plays without D. Fox. Haliburton and Luka can't play to their best together. Tatum can be Tatum no matter who is dominating the ball. That's rare.

Why would Luka play with Luka? Give Luka M.Bridges, few 3&D players and Ayton and they will dominate Nba for a decade. They might have won it this year, if they had decent C.

Nets were a mess the whole season and we're talking here like they were contenders? Bad defensive team too. You're forgetting 1 thing, Luka has dominated and won against more or less everyone in MVP conversation. 2x against Tatum.

[Harry Garris]

This has been discussed in the media for several seasons now. The people who chose Tatum I thought were wrong by a large degree. But with this playoff series against Durant, Tatum looks like the better overall player and who you would want to build a team with. There is no shortage of guards that can get you 30 if you put the ball in their hands. Luka gets in the way of that guard because that's his role and then some. Tatum can play with that guard. Tatum can play with Luka. Luka can't play with Luka! Look at how well Tyrese Haliburton plays without D. Fox. Haliburton and Luka can't play to their best together. Tatum can be Tatum no matter who is dominating the ball. That's rare.

Yeah I disagree with that. Luka is not James Harden off the ball where he stands with his hands on his hips. He can spot up, post up, set screens for others. You don't want Luka playing off the ball much because he's an elite playmaker. Putting the ball in anyone else's hands while Luka is on the floor just makes your offense worse, that's why the Mavs don't do it often.

[hugepatsfan]

Luka by himself makes you a top tier offense. Just by himself, no matter who is around him (within reason of course). Tatum has not been that guy and he's still not that guy yet. But, he's really made a ton of strides as a playmaker. If he continues to improve there and be someone who can just each and every time down the court generate good shots for himself and/or others then maybe it's more of a discussion.

Offense is more important than defense. So with he gap between them right now, the comparison really ends there. However, Tatum truly has special ability on the other end. If he's able to continue to make strides as a playmaker to where he's close enough to Luka, then the defense could make it a discussion. We're not there yet.

[Drax]

Spoiler:

Similar situation is with 2-pointers. Luka only 10% assisted shots and Tatum over 40%. Luka is much better shooter, taking difficulty of shots in context.

What about free throw shooting? No context of difficulty or assists.

Luka is scoring more points with slightly better % creating more or less everything by himself. That's kinda difficult. If we add that he's much better passer with doubled assists number, it's obvious that he's offensive monster, offensive system by himself. Tatum is not even close to that. And Luka is doing all that being fat.

I give you that Tatum is better FT shooter. FT shooting is interesting though, Luka was over 80% FT shooter in Europe, so it's either mental thing or maybe his bad conditioning has something to do with it.

I didn't say Tatum is the better scorer or facilitator, because i don't think he is. But you said Luca is a much better shooter and on that point i disagree. Free throw shooting to me is a good indicator of how good someone really is at shooting. In addition while i agree Luca's shots are more difficult most of the time, you gotta factor in a bigger time frame. I'd never evaluate a shooter (important not scorer) based on one season. And Tatum's career FT and 3PT shooting numbers are way better than Doncic's. Again doesn't mean Luca isn't the better scorer, but i refuse to agree he is a better shooter.

[tsherkin]

I think it's pretty cool how many of these little arguments we have this year. There is a present crop of talent in the league that is abyssally deep, and it's awesome!

[Bob8]

Spoiler:

What about free throw shooting? No context of difficulty or assists.

Luka is scoring more points with slightly better % creating more or less everything by himself. That's kinda difficult. If we add that he's much better passer with doubled assists number, it's obvious that he's offensive monster, offensive system by himself. Tatum is not even close to that. And Luka is doing all that being fat.

I give you that Tatum is better FT shooter. FT shooting is interesting though, Luka was over 80% FT shooter in Europe, so it's either mental thing or maybe his bad conditioning has something to do with it.

I didn't say Tatum is the better scorer or facilitator, because i don't think he is. But you said Luca is a much better shooter and on that point i disagree. Free throw shooting to me is a good indicator of how good someone really is at shooting. In addition while i agree Luca's shots are more difficult most of the time, you gotta factor in a bigger time frame. I'd never evaluate a shooter (important not scorer) based on one season. And Tatum's career FT and 3PT shooting numbers are way better than Doncic's. Again doesn't mean Luca isn't the better scorer, but i refuse to agree he is a better shooter.

Career eFG%, Luka 52.8, Tatum 52.5, Luka scoring much more. When you compare 3-pts %, you must compare difficulty of shots and volume. Luka career 3pt attempts are 8.2 vs Tatum's 5.9.

Bottom line is that Luka is scoring 5.5 points more in his career with better eFG% and creating everything alone. I would say better scorer and shooter.

If we look at career numbers, what you said we should, the difference between them is enormous, Luka basically much better in everything, being 1 year younger and having big room for improvement with his conditioning. The funniest thing is, that he being fat and already around top 5 player, puts his ceiling in the sky. Or better, he hasn't ceiling at all.

[Texas Chuck]

Um, I think the playmaking gap is smaller than the defensive gap,

Talk to me about Tatum's playmaking please.

Because I would have Luka an elite playmaker, like Jokic is probably better, then maybe Lebron, maybe Paul, but the list doesn't extend beyond that. I do not have Tatum that level of defender.

And Luka I have as a subpar, but far from tragic defender. My biggest question is Tatum's playmaking. I get he's a better playmaker relatively speaking than Luka is a defender, but I don't think of him as anything special as a playmaker.

So sincere question here, help me understand who Tatum is as a playmaker?