Jokic is 3rd this season in wins among MVP candidates

[bradybunch]

The best ability is availability.

Be available and you might win.

Right guy won.

[BelgradeNugget]

the fact that embiid went through drama and turmoil with ben simmons and had similar numbers with harden is exact reason why he should of been MVP. Joker has had the same team dang near 2+ yrs,

And the fact that Embiid is black and Jokic white disqualifies Jokic for you, right?

privelege all it is. reminds me when nash won over shaq and kobe

This reverse racism take you keep having is pretty weird. Don't think it's something anyone should be discussing but it is just as likely if not more likely that they gave it to the white guy over the black guy for racist reasons. Saying that he's European and not white is just plain stupid lmao.

Never said he is Europian, not white, don't know where you got it. He is white and for poster above it is his "privilage" and something bad. Are you really trying to say people are going to vote for somebody because he is Eastern European, Serbian and not for Philly sweetheart Embiid. If you want to pull race card it is something for Americans, for Eastern Europeans there is a lot of xenophobia felt here.

[Godymas]

this playoffs is proving Embiid deserved it over Jokic, especially if they beat Miami

but Jokic was all time great this season too

Are you aware that regular season MVP has nothing to do with playoffs? If Embiid averaged 100ppg 50rpg and 20apg right now in playoffs, Jokic would have still deserved to be regular season MVP.

yes i'm aware, did it occur to you that i didn't give a ****

[HardenToSixers]

The best ability is availability.

Be available and you might win.

Right guy won.

Jokic is available to order a pizza right now that's for sure

[Duke4life831]

The best ability is availability.

Be available and you might win.

Right guy won.

Jokic is available to order a pizza right now that's for sure

Again zero relevance to this conversation. Also the only way someone would make this argument is if they remove all context all together.

[USWAY]

Not that I even want to delve into this conversation, but I do wonder what winning % were amongst the top MVP candidates.

[Fairview4Life]

Not that I even want to delve into this conversation, but I do wonder what winning % were amongst the top MVP candidates.

66% for the Sixers with Embiid playing, 62% for the Nuggets with Jokic playing. not sure about the others.
Without Embiid the Sixers were at 43%, and without Jokic the Nuggets were at 25%.

[maxwellcu]

Not that I even want to delve into this conversation, but I do wonder what winning % were amongst the top MVP candidates.

66% for the Sixers with Embiid playing, 62% for the Nuggets with Jokic playing. not sure about the others.
Without Embiid the Sixers were at 43%, and without Jokic the Nuggets were at 25%.

Now take (66% - 43%) and multiply it by 68, and compare that number to what you get when you take (62% - 25%) and multiply it by 74.

What do you get? 15.6 vs 27.4. Hmm, interesting. Kinda looks an awful lot like the relative disparity in "VORPY WAR" or whatever the hot take twitter term of the day is, doesn't it?

This is the simplest unbiased measure of contribution to wins I think anyone can possibly conjure, and it gives an outcome that matches up pretty closely to what the more sophisticated stats tell us. And before anyone complains that it isn't "unbiased", you might want to inform yourself as to what "unbiased" actually means. I'll help you out without that, it isn't too hard:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_of_an_estimator

[PennSports]

yes lets use per game stats for everything except for winning percent. Then we go to total wins!

winning 1 more game on a much worse percent because Embiid had Covid is nothing to brag about

[azapikoa]

yes lets use per game stats for everything except for winning percent. Then we go to total wins!

winning 1 more game on a much worse percent because Embiid had Covid is nothing to brag about

but winning 1 more game on a much worse team is definitely something to brag about

[Lalouie]

There was a lot of discussion on RG about winning. Which player won more games? So I decided to look for it on nba.com. I used two criteria. 1st is ppg>22 to single out players who are generally considered top of the league. The other criteria is a little harder to understand for some people. A little bit advanced. It says "for player X to be rewarded with winning game, he must first participate in the game". Sorry if this is a little hard for some to understand. Here is the list of players and wins by their teams in games they played.

1. Devin Booker 56
2. Jayson Tatum 49
3. Nikola Jokic 46
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo 45
5. Joel Embiid 45
6. Stephen Curry 45
7. Karl-Anthony Towns 44
8. Luka Doncic 44
9. DeMar DeRozan 43
10. Jaylen Brown 43

Discuss

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=W&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=PTS*GE*22

winning is part but not the whole criteria for mvp and i think it's purposely vague in order to incite discussion
so basically your point is pointless

so it's like this....if playerX has outstanding or even unique stats that makes his team a 45win where elsewise they would be a 25win team...why is he not more deserving that playerY who has very good stats but because his team is more well rounded with better talent his team is a 60win team. at what point do you not consider being everything to a team is not as good as being part on a "better" team. or to put it another way,,,does playerX on a crappy team have to be so superstarish that he make a cellar team into a contender? let me tell you how many times that has happened - off the top of my head TWICE with kareem and bird.

the paradigm for your assertion of course is westbrook who averaged a triple double and got flack for it.
there are several criteria and winning is just a tie breaker WHEN ALL ELSE IS EQUAL

i mean what is the diff twixt the two. well,,,,one has better teammates. so tell me why having better teammates becomes any kind of defining criteria for mvp. if that's the case i will posit that dray should have won mvp a few times already

We had 45 pages of MVP discussion. As we all know Jokic had historically great season stat wise. Argument against him was stats are not everything, Winning is more important. Now we know that only 2 MVP candidates had more wins then him. Now, winning is not everything. What are these other criteria he doesn't check?

Something about Westbrook. He had absolutely amazing season when he won MVP. Argument against him occurred later. He was stat-padding rebounds, whole team boxed-out for him. His rebounds were uncontested. He didn't challenge shots, let players he guarded take wide open shots to collect rebound. He was jelling at teammates to shoot so he can have assists.
Jokic does nothing like that. He lead the league in RS in challenged shots. Top in the league in box-outs. Top in the league in contested rebounds. He never stat pad points or assists, goes for the best play. That is the difference between Westbrook and Jokic although Westbrook definitely had amazing MVP season.

then you didn't read beal who said, and i paraphrase, "i thought rw was padding his rebounds but i was wrong".
and on the matter of padding a guard's rebounds. THAT SHOULD BE DE RIGUEUR for all guards because the ball moves faster upcourt before the defense sets....instead of wasting precious 2 seconds of the rebounder looking for his pg to hand the ball off to.

to wit: hellz bellz i think all pg's should average double figures in boards...especially a guy like lonzo who the bulls should be clearing out for 12 > 15 rebounds. the fact is westbrook DOES work hard for his boards

[Archx]

this playoffs is proving Embiid deserved it over Jokic, especially if they beat Miami

but Jokic was all time great this season too

Are you aware that regular season MVP has nothing to do with playoffs? If Embiid averaged 100ppg 50rpg and 20apg right now in playoffs, Jokic would have still deserved to be regular season MVP.

yes i'm aware, did it occur to you that i didn't give a ****

Nice way of saying "It has to be this way because i said so..."

[Cubbies2120]

yes lets use per game stats for everything except for winning percent. Then we go to total wins!

winning 1 more game on a much worse percent because Embiid had Covid is nothing to brag about

Gotcha - so just to get you on record, what arbitrary number of games should a player need to participate in?

Lets say Embiid went 15-0, and was injured for every other game, is he the regular season MVP of an 82 game season?

What about 20-2?

Just curious

If he wasn't out with Covid, who is to say he wouldn't have gotten another injury? This was literally his most injury-free year of his career, and he still missed 14 games, got to the playoffs, and his body isn't holding up again.

[Cubbies2120]

Sixers fans saying "Well Sixers had more wins!", y'all sure you wanna go down that road?

If we start giving credit to players for wins they did NOT participate in, we need to do the same for losses, correct?

In that case, what does it say for Embiid's legacy that he was on two of the worst teams of all time?

Or do we only give him credit for the wins he was on the bench for, while ignoring the losses? Juuuuuust curious

[Cubbies2120]

this playoffs is proving Embiid deserved it over Jokic, especially if they beat Miami

but Jokic was all time great this season too

Are you aware that regular season MVP has nothing to do with playoffs? If Embiid averaged 100ppg 50rpg and 20apg right now in playoffs, Jokic would have still deserved to be regular season MVP.

yes i'm aware, did it occur to you that i didn't give a ****

Cool - what are your opinions on Embiid for MLB MVP? Embiid for NFL Offensive player of the year?

Those have about as much relevance to the conversation as the playoffs do to the regular season MVP award.

[Cubbies2120]

The best ability is availability.

Be available and you might win.

Right guy won.

Jokic is available to order a pizza right now that's for sure

When he orders that pizza, he should UberEats some milk and calcium supplements Embiid's way

[Archx]

Are you aware that regular season MVP has nothing to do with playoffs? If Embiid averaged 100ppg 50rpg and 20apg right now in playoffs, Jokic would have still deserved to be regular season MVP.

yes i'm aware, did it occur to you that i didn't give a ****

Cool - what are your opinions on Embiid for MLB MVP? Embiid for NFL Offensive player of the year?

Those have about as much relevance to the conversation as the playoffs do to the regular season MVP award.

Didn't you read? He doesn't give a **** because he said so It's playoffs so obviously Embiid should be regular season MVP.

[Murray_17]

There was a lot of discussion on RG about winning. Which player won more games? So I decided to look for it on nba.com. I used two criteria. 1st is ppg>22 to single out players who are generally considered top of the league. The other criteria is a little harder to understand for some people. A little bit advanced. It says "for player X to be rewarded with winning game, he must first participate in the game". Sorry if this is a little hard for some to understand. Here is the list of players and wins by their teams in games they played.

1. Devin Booker 56
2. Jayson Tatum 49
3. Nikola Jokic 46
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo 45
5. Joel Embiid 45
6. Stephen Curry 45
7. Karl-Anthony Towns 44
8. Luka Doncic 44
9. DeMar DeRozan 43
10. Jaylen Brown 43

Discuss

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=W&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=PTS*GE*22

I think Jokic won fair and square and he's a generational offensive weapon but this is a bad argument

Both the bucks and the sixers ended with a higher srs than Denver, mostly because the eastern conference this years was better.

Jokic also played more game than Giannis and Embiid, which means his wining percentage is worse, even if he won more games.


Jokic has like every advanced metric to defend his case anyways, i don't get whythe need to use stuff like this

[PennSports]

yes lets use per game stats for everything except for winning percent. Then we go to total wins!

winning 1 more game on a much worse percent because Embiid had Covid is nothing to brag about

Gotcha - so just to get you on record, what arbitrary number of games should a player need to participate in?

Lets say Embiid went 15-0, and was injured for every other game, is he the regular season MVP of an 82 game season?

What about 20-2?

Just curious

If he wasn't out with Covid, who is to say he wouldn't have gotten another injury? This was literally his most injury-free year of his career, and he still missed 14 games, got to the playoffs, and his body isn't holding up again.

What a ridiculous argument going to the maximum extreme immediately. I simply stated a fact that with 6 more games played he has 1 win. You guys are all about efficiency right? Except for when it works against Jokic, then we use totals. Embiid and Giannis had higher win percents in a comparable amount of games played.

Lets completely flip your silly argument. Is 6 games the threshold between MVP and not MVP? What would be a comparable amount of games? 4? 2? 1? Does he have to have perfect attendance to be valedictorian?

[soxfan2003]

There was a lot of discussion on RG about winning. Which player won more games? So I decided to look for it on nba.com. I used two criteria. 1st is ppg>22 to single out players who are generally considered top of the league. The other criteria is a little harder to understand for some people. A little bit advanced. It says "for player X to be rewarded with winning game, he must first participate in the game". Sorry if this is a little hard for some to understand. Here is the list of players and wins by their teams in games they played.

1. Devin Booker 56
2. Jayson Tatum 49
3. Nikola Jokic 46
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo 45
5. Joel Embiid 45
6. Stephen Curry 45
7. Karl-Anthony Towns 44
8. Luka Doncic 44
9. DeMar DeRozan 43
10. Jaylen Brown 43

Discuss

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=W&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=PTS*GE*22

This stat is STUNNING to someone who grew up watching basketball in very late 70's and then watched league expand. Never did I think the 2nd and 3rd players on a list like this would just have 49 and 46 wins respectfully. It just shows how teams are deemphasizing regular season and even star players in mid 20's are missing lots of games.