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Uh… interesting start to the season.

One game in and we already have locker room troubles... this is going to be a long season.

It's literally the same vomit from last year. Clueless coach and players in a dysfunctional system & roster.
Same old, same old.
And AKME wants the fanbase to endure this unmitigated disaster for who knows how long!! SMFH!!

I really don’t understand why they expected a a different outcome running it back with the same core with a couple new role players sprinkled in. Lonzo was the glue that made this team work in 2021 and that was a long time ago

kodo wrote:

rosenthall wrote:Some thoughts:

- The team did an admirable job of sticking to its strategy of having a better shot profile with more 3's, but boy did we look uncomfortable doing it. You can tell it's not in a lot of our guys' DNA to play like we did tonight.
- Coby was alright, but his probing style seems to conflict with the way Zach and DeMar like to play. I was thinking it'd be okay to have Coby start and JC come off the bench due to overall talent, but after seeing how much Coby has to use the ball and how much of a system player Carter is, I think we really would see a nice boost by flipping Pat and Coby for C & C. If tonight's game is a sign of things to come I think this will happen sooner rather than later.

The issue with starting Coby, who has earned it so far, is the defense. Coby can't guard Shai, so Patrick was on him and SGA just ripped Patrick up. And Coby was just too small to guard Giddey, who also put up a good game. Overall Coby & Patrick's assignments dropped 51 points 16 assists on high efficiency.

Post ASG last season it wasn't Coby & Patrick defending out there it was Beverley & Caruso, two elite defenders. And before Beverley it was Ayo, who also shows up as a top 10 screen defender below Caruso. And the reality is that we need elite on-ball defense because as we all just watched...we just let other teams hoist 3s like a pickup game.

So while I think Coby's played really well lately, the team won more when he & Patrick came off the bench in favor of defensive specialists.

This chasing of the "shooting profile" has gotten the Bulls far away from how they won games last season, which wasn't offense.

I followed this game by refreshing ESPN box score --- I did not watch the game, I watched the stats.

I was watching it nip and tuck on the box score from 1st to 3rd quarter while watching my 2 yo run around and my 8 yo do his baseball practice.

It was 79-76 3rd quarter before my attention got pulled to other things.

Some minutes later, maybe about 20 minutes later, I refresh, and all of a sudden its 100-84 with 10:19 to go. Oh crap time.

The game was over with that surge, and we had no response to coming back --- that was a rehash of post-Lonzo 2021-2022.

The downslide coincided with the removal of Coby and the insertion of Jevon. Coby was not having a great game statistically, maybe OK, but looked better than Zach.

Again, I don't know what happened exactly, but sometimes I think the importance of our defensive point guards are overstated in these games, especially when we have a slumping offensive response. The defensive guards are only important provided that our offense (everyone else who is not a defensive guard) can actually produce enough to keep up with the opposing team. Teams know that Caruso and Jevon aren't really going to be threats to score which makes their job on defense a lot easier.

I thought the team would come out with energy and something to prove. Instead, that manifested itself as Lavine just being selfish.

The defense was surprisingly reactionary. Whatever benefit AKME thought they would get from continuity just doesn't seem to be there. That looked like a team that had never played together.

I'll start a little controversy: Derozan wasn't playing ISO selfish ball. When he doesn't, that just opens the team up to mindlessly pass the ball around the perimeter before forcing up a bad shot. Derozan ISO ball is terrible to watch but its the team's most effective offense. Its unfortunate that is the case. Fans WANT Lavine and Patrick and others to be these offensive dynamos that can create when they get the ball but they just . . . aren't. Hanging around the perimeter waiting for an open shot created by someone else is probably the best they are going to get.

coldfish wrote:I thought the team would come out with energy and something to prove. Instead, that manifested itself as Lavine just being selfish.

The defense was surprisingly reactionary. Whatever benefit AKME thought they would get from continuity just doesn't seem to be there. That looked like a team that had never played together.

I'll start a little controversy: Derozan wasn't playing ISO selfish ball. When he doesn't, that just opens the team up to mindlessly pass the ball around the perimeter before forcing up a bad shot. Derozan ISO ball is terrible to watch but its the team's most effective offense. Its unfortunate that is the case. Fans WANT Lavine and Patrick and others to be these offensive dynamos that can create when they get the ball but they just . . . aren't. Hanging around the perimeter waiting for an open shot created by someone else is probably the best they are going to get.

It's just a terrible indictment of AKME's stubborn refusal to accept they cannot build a talented modern roster.
How in the hell are we extending Billy D, Vuc, and now Demar possibly with absolutely no positive results to show for it? I suspect as a couple have said we may start the season from either 1-10 to 4-7.
We're stuck literally in NBA hell until proven otherwise.

How many days before AK uses the word "patience" ?

Also, normally in an opening game loss, it can be major overreactions.

But this is different for us because this is literally a continuation of last season with the same roster. So we aren't making overreactions. There is now a heaping pile of evidence.

And even the whole 14-9 record when we got Pat Bev was still fools gold. Alot of those wins were still tank wins. Beating Philly, Denver and Memphis were nice. But we still lost in the same fashion as before. And games we needed to win like against Atlanta, we still lost.

I think the problem with AKME in this situation, is the players individually aren't the issue. Vooch, Zach, Demar are all unequivocally very good players. But the combination of them together is really bad. We are trying to shuffle the pieces around them to make it better but we ultimately keep running down the same path.

AKME at some point have to pivot. It doesn't mean burning it down to the stomps. He doesn't have to. But the combination of the big 3 just has to change. That also includes BIlly Donovan.

Billy isn't a horrible coach but he isn't the one that's going to get us anywhere either. Bills is not creative enough nor does he have a strong enough voice. We know this because his post-game comments are exactly the same. If the team doesnt respond, its either the coach is lying about the expectations, or the team is totally tuning him out.

Its only 1 game on paper, but this is more like an extended 22-23 season.

The 6ft Hurdle wrote:

kodo wrote:

rosenthall wrote:Some thoughts:

- The team did an admirable job of sticking to its strategy of having a better shot profile with more 3's, but boy did we look uncomfortable doing it. You can tell it's not in a lot of our guys' DNA to play like we did tonight.
- Coby was alright, but his probing style seems to conflict with the way Zach and DeMar like to play. I was thinking it'd be okay to have Coby start and JC come off the bench due to overall talent, but after seeing how much Coby has to use the ball and how much of a system player Carter is, I think we really would see a nice boost by flipping Pat and Coby for C & C. If tonight's game is a sign of things to come I think this will happen sooner rather than later.

The issue with starting Coby, who has earned it so far, is the defense. Coby can't guard Shai, so Patrick was on him and SGA just ripped Patrick up. And Coby was just too small to guard Giddey, who also put up a good game. Overall Coby & Patrick's assignments dropped 51 points 16 assists on high efficiency.

Post ASG last season it wasn't Coby & Patrick defending out there it was Beverley & Caruso, two elite defenders. And before Beverley it was Ayo, who also shows up as a top 10 screen defender below Caruso. And the reality is that we need elite on-ball defense because as we all just watched...we just let other teams hoist 3s like a pickup game.

So while I think Coby's played really well lately, the team won more when he & Patrick came off the bench in favor of defensive specialists.

This chasing of the "shooting profile" has gotten the Bulls far away from how they won games last season, which wasn't offense.

I followed this game by refreshing ESPN box score --- I did not watch the game, I watched the stats.

I was watching it nip and tuck on the box score from 1st to 3rd quarter while watching my 2 yo run around and my 8 yo do his baseball practice.

It was 79-76 3rd quarter before my attention got pulled to other things.

Some minutes later, maybe about 20 minutes later, I refresh, and all of a sudden its 100-84 with 10:19 to go. Oh crap time.

The game was over with that surge, and we had no response to coming back --- that was a rehash of post-Lonzo 2021-2022.

The downslide coincided with the removal of Coby and the insertion of Jevon. Coby was not having a great game statistically, maybe OK, but looked better than Zach.

Again, I don't know what happened exactly, but sometimes I think the importance of our defensive point guards are overstated in these games, especially when we have a slumping offensive response. The defensive guards are only important provided that our offense (everyone else who is not a defensive guard) can actually produce enough to keep up with the opposing team. Teams know that Caruso and Jevon aren't really going to be threats to score which makes their job on defense a lot easier.

I'm not even sure Carter is better on defense than Coby anyway.

Tough team to start off the season against. If this team is below .500 after the first six games, I'm pushing the panic button. The guys have to get use to our new play style.

I didn’t hate the offensive system last night. I thought it was better, but we just don’t have the players to consistently shoot threes and knock them down at a high rate.

Add in that our dribble drive penetration is very average and our threes aren’t always completely open like OKC’s were.

Zach was awful. No defending him last night. He was atrocious. His lone skillset at least fits this new system. He can at least shoot from deep.

DDR, no clue here. If this is our new system, I don’t see how he fits it.

If Pat hits 2 of those threes his numbers look better. He didn’t, but I think he does long term. In general, I liked what I saw from Pat last night.

Last thing, we have no strategy on player development. None. Billy has no clue how to develop young talent. Meanwhile, you see OKC’s young players all contributing. That’s our biggest issue. The vets are one thing, but having zero development from draft picks is a real boat anchor on the team.

My "Ok, let's just blow it up..."-moment in this game came in the middle of the third quarter when the starters straight up didn't know what to run on offense for a couple possessions in a row. They all looked at each other, nobody moved, it resulted in a shotclock violation and some terrible shots while the Thunder started to blow them out. How does this still happen? It's unacceptable on every level. The players have to be better, Billy has to be better and AKME finally have to see what everybody else has seen for a while now.

This group has proven, over and over again, that keeping it together is nothing but a waste of time. Not everything in that game was terrible and I'm sure they will win enough to compete for the Play-In, but this team has no upside to be good.

I didn’t even watch the game but looking at the box score, it feels like this is the same team we’ve had for the last few years. I think this team has run its course. Time to change something serious if we want to see different results.


Sent from somewhere you’ve never been.

BigUps wrote:Last thing, we have no strategy on player development. None. Billy has no clue how to develop young talent. Meanwhile, you see OKC’s young players all contributing. That’s our biggest issue. The vets are one thing, but having zero development from draft picks is a real boat anchor on the team.

I'm ready to complain about Billy and the development of young talent once the management adds young talent worth developing. The Bulls must have the least interesting "group" of young players in the entire league. That's not on Billy.

28 win team

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Just saw the LaVine quote about not playing with enough heart.

It's the first game of the season. Have some shame, man.

Got home from work when the 1st was mostly done. Watched the game on and off as I was on the phone. Zach did not play well, but I did like how he was attacking the basket, but his shot selection otherwise was not good at all. A lot of settling for jumpers or shooting off the dribble.

I noticed one play where Coby passed it to Vooch where he was mostly open at the arc and he kinda flailed his arms in a "what are you doing right now?" way that made me wonder was he upset at Vooch for not shooting it or what? Beyond that, the defense leaving so many 3s open was confusing as to why Billy wasnt telling them to run people off the line. I'll live with inside shots, but the 3pt defense needed to be better since our shooters werent hitting their shots (besides Craig). We didnt have the luxury of matching those shots so we shouldnt have been giving them open looks. We took three more 3pts than them but they made 7 more than we did. If we match them we win this game by 1 point...which still isnt good.

I'm not panicking after one game, even tho a players only meeting after the first game of the season doesnt really sound good imo, but if we come out at .500 or under around the end of Nov (first 20 games) THEN I'll press the panick button. Starting with Billy's job, which I was calling for back in 2022 after that playoff series against the Bucks. AKME HAVE to pivot if that happens. And I'm not saying have a firesale, but definitely gotta move some people.

I'm a bit relieved. If they don't turn it around within a few games I can cancel my YoutubeTV without regret and stop being exposed to all the horrific commercials and programming.

The good news is that Zach should still have good trade value and Demar and Patrick haven't been extended.

They really came out of the gates looking pretty good IMO. They just can't shoot that well as a team, which is why trying to artificially pump up their 3PA will be a mistake IMO. Demar and Caruso's attempts from the arch looked particularly bad IMO.

And Zach Lavine just burns possessions and momentum with his frequent ill-advised shots still in his 10th season. I'm kind of done with him.

Carter and Ayo gonna be bad contracts imminently IMO. Obviously in the case of Ayo that could be seen from a million miles away. A .500 team signs it's low-ceiling 10th man to a 3 year contract after drafting and signing multiple replacements/hopeful upgrades. That's worse than the Vuc trade. Maybe not in impact, but in egregiousness.

Man, I was excited to spew my early hot takes, but you guys beat me to them

I liked our 3pt attempts conceptually, but Demar shouldn't take them - not his game. Other than that, we had a ton of missed open 3's that I'm willing to bet we start making over time. Billy needs to adjust the starting line-up and move Coby and Pat to the bench. I liked that they both upped their shots, but they were at the expense of the starter's shots and I think that among other things took those guys out of their rhythm. Also, our bench unit suffered from a lack of scoring. The starters would have benefitted from having Craig's rebounding and defensive leadership.

Zach looked out of sorts. If he makes his 3's, this is a different game, and he seems uncomfortable with catch and shoot 3's, and maybe it's a matter of time.

Maybe the most interesting development that has gone under the radar is the potential impact of the new flopping rule on Demar's game. I think that dude has made a living off of falling down after almost every shot he takes in the past (usually off of minimal contact), and IMO the new rule will cost him more than most guys in the league. To his credit, he didn't fall down much, but he also didn't get to the line. Contrary to my prior point, maybe he should be working on his 3 ball, but I see a long season for him.

Zach always seems OK cause his TS % is usually good. But that gets to how overrated TS% is as a metric. Not sure how the flawed assumptions of TS% affect Zach, but my problem with him has always been that he has absolutely no sense of game or shot clock management. He takes 59 TS% or whatever type shots regardless of the shot clock. IMO, every team should spend at least the first 15 seconds of the shot clock trying to get a 95 TS% type shot (dunk or layup).

The entire dynamic history of the miraculous Steph Curry has absolutely warped basketball minds everywhere.