Celts Enjoy Raptor, Lettuce & Tomato Sandwiches! VC vs TOR 11/11

[BK_2020]

In 1980 playoffs, with the Celtics down 2-1, Bird proceeded to go 11 for 34 with 10 turnovers in the next 2 games. I don't think he was much of a killer starting off. And in 1981 the Celtics did win the championship but it was hardly thanks to Larry Bird, who consistently came up small in the finals, having games where he shot 3 for 11 (twice), 5 for 16, and 8 for 18. He averaged just 15 ppg on 42% shooting while watching his stacked team destroy the overmatched Rockets without needing much help from him.

[exculpatory]

I became a Celtic fan because of Larry Bird.

I'm an 80's kid.

While JT has no rings and MVP awards, it's also true Bird is not as athletic as JT.

JT also has better handles.

You also don't see Bird dunk like JT.

It's just a matter of time, when JT gets that ring, every Celtic fan will acknowkedge JT's greatness.

Robert Horry has more rings than Kobe.

That doesn't mean Horry is the better player.

Strawmen arguments like 'Horry vs Kobe' are why I wrote this:

If you don't want to count things like MVPs or rings, then just put them on a court together at age 26 each and I guarantee you Larry is the better player by a country mile. I love Tatum but it's true. If you saw Larry, you know this.

I am glad we both got to see Larry. By my way of thinking, taking Larry and giving him the ability to "dunk like Tatum" would have led to no more banners, MVPs, or maybe even regular season wins.

Let's look at some stats:
Regular season:
BPM: Larry 6.9, Tatum 3.4
WS/48: Larry 0.20, Tatum 0.15
PER: Larry 23.5, Tatum 19.8

So Larry leads in all of those, but those are career averages -- let's look at age 24 seasons (Larry's 2nd; Tatum's 6th!):
BPM: Larry 4.3, Tatum 5.5!
WS/48: Larry 0.16, Tatum 0.19!
PER: Larry 19.9, Tatum 23.7!

So at the same age, Tatum is leading in those.

Let's look at playoffs -- first, career averages:
BPM: Larry 6.9, Tatum 4.3
WS/48: Larry 0.17, Tatum 0.13
PER: Larry 21.4, Tatum 19.0

So again, Larry wins on career averages, including his past-his-prime years.
But now let's do playoffs for their age 24 seasons:
BPM: Larry 7.7, Tatum 5.3
WS/48: Larry 0.20, Tatum 0.17
PER: Larry 21.8, Tatum 22.6

So likely some edge to Larry's age 24 playoff season, underlined by the fact that HIS TEAM WON THE TITLE THAT YEAR.
Performance ------> results
Ability --------> results
Fancy handles and dunks --------> who the **** cares this is the Boston Celtics we're about Banners Only my friend!

But I will say, all of this underlines the take-away: Tatum has a chance to get into the conversation about being on the same level as Larry. He's not there yet. He's trending the right direction -- needs the playoff successes to actually make it happen!

sources for stats: BBallRef
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/birdla01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tatumja01.html

I never said JT is already as good as Larry.

What I'm saying is JT is already on the level of Larry.

Let's just put it this way, Larry is a 1st tier superstar.

Paul Pierce is a FIRST TIER SUPER STAR & REMAINS VASTLY UNDERRATED TO THIS DAY.

JT is the only Celtic since Bird to have multiple 1st team All-NBA selections.

McHale only had 1.

So I don't disagree with you about Larry being way better.

But just like Larry, JT is a legit 1st tier superstar.

When JT hits as many clutch shots as Truth did, talk to me.
When JT wins his second chip, talk to me.
I think & hope he will.

Paul played with pure garbage from 1998-1999 until 2006-2007.
JT luckily has not.
Had Paul played w KG from the beginning of his career, he would have won 3-4 chips - AS EQUAL, BEAUTIFULLY MATCHED CO-SUPER STARS!

JT will never pass Bird as a CELTIC legend.
But that is ok.

[Fierce1]

Strawmen arguments like 'Horry vs Kobe' are why I wrote this:



I am glad we both got to see Larry. By my way of thinking, taking Larry and giving him the ability to "dunk like Tatum" would have led to no more banners, MVPs, or maybe even regular season wins.

Let's look at some stats:
Regular season:
BPM: Larry 6.9, Tatum 3.4
WS/48: Larry 0.20, Tatum 0.15
PER: Larry 23.5, Tatum 19.8

So Larry leads in all of those, but those are career averages -- let's look at age 24 seasons (Larry's 2nd; Tatum's 6th!):
BPM: Larry 4.3, Tatum 5.5!
WS/48: Larry 0.16, Tatum 0.19!
PER: Larry 19.9, Tatum 23.7!

So at the same age, Tatum is leading in those.

Let's look at playoffs -- first, career averages:
BPM: Larry 6.9, Tatum 4.3
WS/48: Larry 0.17, Tatum 0.13
PER: Larry 21.4, Tatum 19.0

So again, Larry wins on career averages, including his past-his-prime years.
But now let's do playoffs for their age 24 seasons:
BPM: Larry 7.7, Tatum 5.3
WS/48: Larry 0.20, Tatum 0.17
PER: Larry 21.8, Tatum 22.6

So likely some edge to Larry's age 24 playoff season, underlined by the fact that HIS TEAM WON THE TITLE THAT YEAR.
Performance ------> results
Ability --------> results
Fancy handles and dunks --------> who the **** cares this is the Boston Celtics we're about Banners Only my friend!

But I will say, all of this underlines the take-away: Tatum has a chance to get into the conversation about being on the same level as Larry. He's not there yet. He's trending the right direction -- needs the playoff successes to actually make it happen!

sources for stats: BBallRef
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/birdla01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tatumja01.html

I never said JT is already as good as Larry.

What I'm saying is JT is already on the level of Larry.

Let's just put it this way, Larry is a 1st tier superstar.

Paul Pierce is a FIRST TIER SUPER STAR & REMAINS VASTLY UNDERRATED THIS DAY.

JT is the only Celtic since Bird to have multiple 1st team All-NBA selections.

McHale only had 1.

So I don't disagree with you about Larry being way better.

But just like Larry, JT is a legit 1st tier superstar.

When JT hits as many clutch shots as Truth did, talk to me.
When JT wins his second chip, talk to me.
I think & hope he will.

Paul played with pure garbage from 1998-1999 until 2006-2007.
JT luckily has not.
Had Paul played w KG from the beginning of his career, he would have won 3-4 chips - AS EQUAL BEAUTIFULLY MATCHED CO-SUPER STARS!

JT will never pass Bird in CELTIC as a CELTIC legend.
But that is ok.

I'm sorry but there are standards for being a 1st tier superstar.

Paul Pierce is one of my favorite Celtic players, but he never made All-NBA 1st team, not even once.

[exculpatory]

I never said JT is already as good as Larry.

What I'm saying is JT is already on the level of Larry.

Let's just put it this way, Larry is a 1st tier superstar.

Paul Pierce is a FIRST TIER SUPER STAR & REMAINS VASTLY UNDERRATED TO THIS DAY.

JT is the only Celtic since Bird to have multiple 1st team All-NBA selections.

McHale only had 1.

So I don't disagree with you about Larry being way better.

But just like Larry, JT is a legit 1st tier superstar.

When JT hits as many clutch shots as Truth did, talk to me.
When JT wins his second chip, talk to me.
I think & hope he will.

Paul played with pure garbage from 1998-1999 until 2006-2007.
JT luckily has not.
Had Paul played w KG from the beginning of his career, he would have won 3-4 chips - AS EQUAL, BEAUTIFULLY MATCHED CO-SUPER STARS!

JT will never pass Bird as a CELTIC legend.
But that is ok.

I'm sorry but there are standards for being a 1st tier superstar.

Paul Pierce is one of my favorite Celtic players, but he never made All-NBA 1st team, not even once.

Stupidity of voters - even in Boston, Truth was shamefully & ignorantly underappreciated for his first 9 seasons carrying garbage teams.

[Triple7]

Strawmen arguments like 'Horry vs Kobe' are why I wrote this:



I am glad we both got to see Larry. By my way of thinking, taking Larry and giving him the ability to "dunk like Tatum" would have led to no more banners, MVPs, or maybe even regular season wins.

Let's look at some stats:
Regular season:
BPM: Larry 6.9, Tatum 3.4
WS/48: Larry 0.20, Tatum 0.15
PER: Larry 23.5, Tatum 19.8

So Larry leads in all of those, but those are career averages -- let's look at age 24 seasons (Larry's 2nd; Tatum's 6th!):
BPM: Larry 4.3, Tatum 5.5!
WS/48: Larry 0.16, Tatum 0.19!
PER: Larry 19.9, Tatum 23.7!

So at the same age, Tatum is leading in those.

Let's look at playoffs -- first, career averages:
BPM: Larry 6.9, Tatum 4.3
WS/48: Larry 0.17, Tatum 0.13
PER: Larry 21.4, Tatum 19.0

So again, Larry wins on career averages, including his past-his-prime years.
But now let's do playoffs for their age 24 seasons:
BPM: Larry 7.7, Tatum 5.3
WS/48: Larry 0.20, Tatum 0.17
PER: Larry 21.8, Tatum 22.6

So likely some edge to Larry's age 24 playoff season, underlined by the fact that HIS TEAM WON THE TITLE THAT YEAR.
Performance ------> results
Ability --------> results
Fancy handles and dunks --------> who the **** cares this is the Boston Celtics we're about Banners Only my friend!

But I will say, all of this underlines the take-away: Tatum has a chance to get into the conversation about being on the same level as Larry. He's not there yet. He's trending the right direction -- needs the playoff successes to actually make it happen!

sources for stats: BBallRef
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/birdla01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tatumja01.html

I never said JT is already as good as Larry.

What I'm saying is JT is already on the level of Larry.

Let's just put it this way, Larry is a 1st tier superstar.

Paul Pierce is a FIRST TIER SUPER STAR & REMAINS VASTLY UNDERRATED THIS DAY.

JT is the only Celtic since Bird to have multiple 1st team All-NBA selections.

McHale only had 1.

So I don't disagree with you about Larry being way better.

But just like Larry, JT is a legit 1st tier superstar.

When JT hits as many clutch shots as Truth did, talk to me.
When JT wins his second chip, talk to me.
I think & hope he will.

Paul played with pure garbage from 1998-1999 until 2006-2007.
JT luckily has not.
Had Paul played w KG from the beginning of his career, he would have won 3-4 chips - AS EQUAL, BEAUTIFULLY MATCHED CO-SUPER STARS!

JT will never pass Bird as a CELTIC legend.
But that is ok.

Bird for me, is the greatest celtics. Tatum has to do something really special here to surpass that. Multiple championships and mvp’s. If he surpass Bird, he’s probably in the top ten greatest ever convo. Also, if Jt plays with a KG like talent, he would have won 2 rings already.

[sam_I_am]

When JT hits as many clutch shots as Truth did, talk to me.
When JT wins his second chip, talk to me.
I think & hope he will.

Paul played with pure garbage from 1998-1999 until 2006-2007.
JT luckily has not.
Had Paul played w KG from the beginning of his career, he would have won 3-4 chips - AS EQUAL BEAUTIFULLY MATCHED CO-SUPER STARS!

JT will never pass Bird in CELTIC as a CELTIC legend.
But that is ok.

I'm sorry but there are standards for being a 1st tier superstar.

Paul Pierce is one of my favorite Celtic players, but he never made All-NBA 1st team, not even once.

Stupidity of voters.

We have always agreed about Pierce. He often was underrated compared to Carter, McGrady and Kobe because he played on really bad teams.

One thing that Tatum has that Pierce, McGrady, Carter and even Kobe didn’t have was the ability to elevate his teams to deep playoff runs. As great as Kobe was with Shaq…..he had a run of mediocrity without Shaq before Pao Gasol was gifted to Lakers. The truly great players - Bird, Duncan, Lebron, Jokic - showed the ability to carry a lesser supporting cast to deep playoff runs. Pierce sorta did that once in 2009 when KG was injured. Tatum as a 19 yo rookie took a team down 2 superstars to a 7th game of ECF and has been a winner every year since. Dude is special in a way that even the great Paul Pierce may not have been.

[BK_2020]

If Ainge doesn't get KG and Ray to join in 2007 Pierce gets remembered for his clown antics and empty numbers. If KG doesn't join Pierce he still gets remembered as a top 15 player all time.

[exculpatory]

If Ainge doesn't get KG and Ray to join in 2007, Pierce gets remembered for his clown antics and empty numbers (FIFTEENTH LEADING SCORER IN NBA HISTORY). If KG doesn't join Pierce, he still gets remembered as a top 15 player all time.

Without Paul, KG wins NOTHING with the Celtics. And he also had mostly empty numbers without P0 success in Minny (except for 1 season) before 2007 (& much MUCH better teammates).
And, without KG, vice versa.

Both were studs with perfectly complimentary Super Star skills.

**** period.

We agree about 7, but not about the mother **** Truth, apparently.
No problem.
I am used to it.

[exculpatory]

I'm sorry but there are standards for being a 1st tier superstar.

Paul Pierce is one of my favorite Celtic players, but he never made All-NBA 1st team, not even once.

Stupidity of voters.

We have always agreed about Pierce. He often was underrated compared to Carter, McGrady and Kobe because he played on really bad teams.

One thing that Tatum has that Pierce, McGrady, Carter and even Kobe didn’t have was the ability to elevate his teams to deep playoff runs. As great as Kobe was with Shaq…..he had a run of mediocrity without Shaq before Pao Gasol was gifted to Lakers. The truly great players - Bird, Duncan, Lebron, Jokic - showed the ability to carry a lesser supporting cast to deep playoff runs. Pierce sorta did that once in 2009 when KG was injured. Tatum as a 19 yo rookie took a team down 2 superstars to a 7th game of ECF and has been a winner every year since. Dude is special in a way that even the great Paul Pierce may not have been.

Maybe so, Sam.

[exculpatory]

I'm sorry but there are standards for being a 1st tier superstar.

Paul Pierce is one of my favorite Celtic players, but he never made All-NBA 1st team, not even once.

Stupidity of voters.

We have always agreed about Pierce. He often was underrated compared to Carter, McGrady and Kobe because he played on really bad teams.

One thing that Tatum has that Pierce, McGrady, Carter and even Kobe didn’t have was the ability to elevate his teams to deep playoff runs. As great as Kobe was with Shaq…..he had a run of mediocrity without Shaq before Pao Gasol was gifted to Lakers. The truly great players - Bird, Duncan, Lebron, Jokic - showed the ability to carry a lesser supporting cast to deep playoff runs. Pierce sorta did that once in 2009 when KG was injured. Tatum as a 19 yo rookie took a team down 2 superstars to a 7th game of ECF and has been a winner every year since. Dude is special in a way that even the great Paul Pierce may not have been.

Forgot:
And when JT VERY LIKELY clearly surpasses Paul in a few years with his second chip, & as many clutch shots, let’s not forget WHO JT FINALLY ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BE MENTORED BY FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS DURING THE SUMMER OF 2023 = THE TRUTH!