Thoughts on LeBron starting over Tatum in the Olympics? Is it unfair veteran privilege?

[tsherkin]

2022 Nets - Celtics:

Tatum: 30, 7, and 5, 61.6 TS%, 21.1 GmSc, won 4-0
Durant: 26, 6, and 6, 52.6 TS%, 15.3 GmSc, lost 0-4

Does Tatum throughly outplaying Durant in a playoff series count for nothing?

No, not really. That's a 2 year-old series where Durant got the full focus of a high-end Boston defense without the benefit of his full team. We've seen what that does to players.

And since then Durant has won 1 playoff series and Tatum has won 8.

And? Team quality and chemistry matter. And Tatum also just won an NBA title whilst shooting 38.8% FG, 26.3% 3P and posting a 50.5% TS, 6.1% worse than playoff league average. So I don't know how much you really want to factor in series victories or single-series performance.

And I’m not even sure how strong the teammate argument is. In 2022 Durant had Kyrie, Bruce Brown, Seth Curry, and Nic Claxton. In 2023 Durant had Booker, CP3, Ayton, and Payne.

And in 2023, Paul played 2/6 games against the eventual-champion Nuggets, Durant certainly dried up from 3 in that series, but between the two, I'd take his mid-range game over Tatum's game the vast majority of the time.

In 2024 Durant had Booker, Beal, Gordon, and Nurkic.

And this is supposed to sell team-based advantage? My dude. That isn't a particularly compelling team.


During that time, Durant is 6-13 in playoff games. Especially against a defensive titan like the Timberwolves.

I think some people still think of 2021, or 2014-2019 when they think of Durant. He’s not that guy anymore.

And Tatum isn't any kind of guy as an offensive force, so what's your point? Durant put 27 ppg on 65% TS against the Timberwolves. He's fine. And eminently suited to FIBA ball.

Tatum has no mid-range game to speak of, so he is Mr. Variance, and there are superior post options on the team, so playing him as a smaller PF is less appealing on that roster. He has value, he belongs on the team, he's going to get minutes, but there's nothing about him which stands out enough relative to the other guys on that roster at his positions to author a serious argument that he really SHOULD start over them.

[Triple M]

FIBA Tatum was pretty bad

Wasnt he the 2nd leading scorer in Tokyo

[Triple M]

But there's nothing about him which stands out enough relative to the other guys on that roster at his positions to author a serious argument that he really SHOULD start over them.

LeBron, Curry, KD and Embiid are locks

Out of Kawhi, Ant and Tatum there should be an argument that can be made for any 1 out of the 3. Tatum is the more versatile defender and fits offensively in a read and react offense

[Dupp]

Beef should be with KD not Lebron.

[tsherkin]

Out of Kawhi, Ant and Tatum there should be an argument that can be made for any 1 out of the 3. Tatum is the more versatile defender and fits offensively in a read and react offense

I don't really see a compelling reason to start Ant. I don't know that Tatum is a more versatile defender than Kawhi, but both of them have size on Ant, so there's that. I'd definitely start Kawhi over Tatum, though.

[Hangtime84]

FIBA Tatum was pretty bad

Wasnt he the 2nd leading scorer in Tokyo

He was being force fed and defensive side was suspect. The fatigued guys who played in the finals plus Durant/Draymond brought the stability we needed to win.

I will say he has improved a lot since then and playmaking is much better.

[Sealab2024]

Out of Kawhi, Ant and Tatum there should be an argument that can be made for any 1 out of the 3. Tatum is the more versatile defender and fits offensively in a read and react offense

I don't really see a compelling reason to start Ant. I don't know that Tatum is a more versatile defender than Kawhi, but both of them have size on Ant, so there's that. I'd definitely start Kawhi over Tatum, though.

The reason they're starting Ant is simple. Training. This is the last international run for KD, LBJ, Steph, probably Khawi and Jrue as well. Meanwhile the top players in the world are all international, Jokic, Doncic, SGA, Giannis, Wemby coming... Who's gonna lead the US when all those vets go? Tatum?.... No. Booker?.... No. Haliburton?... No. Bronny James?.... No. Zion? Embiid? By 2028 theres no more Harden or Westbrook, no PG, no CP3, they're all gone.

Who else but Ant? And yes, I'm a Wolves fan but that doesn't make me wrong. The only other young guy out there with the will to do it is Ja, and that's a whole other story.

Despite Ant being eternally quotable, dudes gonna play defense and follow the leader.

[chrisab123]

I’d be happy with Tatum and Jrue not playing all that much. Let the other dudes burn themselves out.

[ForeverTFC]

Bron is still the better ball distributor than Tatum. They don't have a pure PG so need that in the starting lineup.

Curry/Bron/KD/AD/Embiid will probably be the starting lineup. Jrue/Ant/2 of Booker, Tatum and Kawhi/Bam will be the second lineup. Hali will not get much playing time in games that matter.

[ForeverTFC]

Out of Kawhi, Ant and Tatum there should be an argument that can be made for any 1 out of the 3. Tatum is the more versatile defender and fits offensively in a read and react offense

I don't really see a compelling reason to start Ant. I don't know that Tatum is a more versatile defender than Kawhi, but both of them have size on Ant, so there's that. I'd definitely start Kawhi over Tatum, though.

AD is the most likely to start imo.

[SK21209]

Out of Kawhi, Ant and Tatum there should be an argument that can be made for any 1 out of the 3. Tatum is the more versatile defender and fits offensively in a read and react offense

I don't really see a compelling reason to start Ant. I don't know that Tatum is a more versatile defender than Kawhi, but both of them have size on Ant, so there's that. I'd definitely start Kawhi over Tatum, though.

The reason they're starting Ant is simple. Training. This is the last international run for KD, LBJ, Steph, probably Khawi and Jrue as well. Meanwhile the top players in the world are all international, Jokic, Doncic, SGA, Giannis, Wemby coming... Who's gonna lead the US when all those vets go? Tatum?.... No. Booker?.... No. Haliburton?... No. Bronny James?.... No. Zion? Embiid? By 2028 theres no more Harden or Westbrook, no PG, no CP3, they're all gone.

Who else but Ant? And yes, I'm a Wolves fan but that doesn't make me wrong. The only other young guy out there with the will to do it is Ja, and that's a whole other story.

Despite Ant being eternally quotable, dudes gonna play defense and follow the leader.

Ant should start, I agree he's going to defend his ass off. That starting lineup could also use someone with some juice off the dribble that will put pressure on the rim. Steph and KD don't do that quite as much anymore on LeBron does it via bully ball. They could use some raw athleticism.

[AussieCeltic]

Tatum is better than Lebron in 2024. You’ll see it in nearly every ranking list included the realgm one currently who is ranked higher.

Tatum is clearly better than current Lebron. This isn’t even an argument

Read on Twitter

Seems like there’s an argument…from the players that you know, actually play the game.

lol!! Give him the MVP of a random scrimmage game that a team of ALL NBA players nearly lost to a team lead by a high school kid. Congrats bro. Great argument.

Or we could, you know, maybe watch the entire last season where Tatum was voted ALL NBA first team and won the championship?

[tsherkin]

The reason they're starting Ant is simple. Training.

That seems a bit of a waste if winning is the goal.

Who else but Ant? And yes, I'm a Wolves fan but that doesn't make me wrong. The only other young guy out there with the will to do it is Ja, and that's a whole other story.

Unless there are some major changes, Ant doesn't read as someone who is going to challenge for best in the league any time in the near future. Team USA should have a better reason than "because we'd like him to be good in years to come" for starting him ahead of guys who will likely be more helpful to winning now.

[Sealab2024]

The reason they're starting Ant is simple. Training.

That seems a bit of a waste if winning is the goal.

Who else but Ant? And yes, I'm a Wolves fan but that doesn't make me wrong. The only other young guy out there with the will to do it is Ja, and that's a whole other story.

Unless there are some major changes, Ant doesn't read as someone who is going to challenge for best in the league any time in the near future. Team USA should have a better reason than "because we'd like him to be good in years to come" for starting him ahead of guys who will likely be more helpful to winning now.

Well if he wasn't better or at least as good as the next guy he wouldn't be starting would he?

And your projection is obviously not based on watching the guy play the game. Best in the league? Maybe never, but he could certainly become top 5 possibly top 3, and again..... All those other guys right now aren't American.... So we're not talking about the best in the league, we're talking about the best young Americans So who's it gonna be? Cooper Flagg? Cause we put all the young guys onto a team last year and guess who rose to take the reigns?

[Triple M]

Out of Kawhi, Ant and Tatum there should be an argument that can be made for any 1 out of the 3. Tatum is the more versatile defender and fits offensively in a read and react offense

I don't really see a compelling reason to start Ant. I don't know that Tatum is a more versatile defender than Kawhi, but both of them have size on Ant, so there's that. I'd definitely start Kawhi over Tatum, though.

At this stage they should be relatively equal on the perimeter because i don't think there is a big gap one way or the other, but Tatum is the better interior defender and rebounder.

[tsherkin]

Well if he wasn't better or at least as good as the next guy he wouldn't be starting would he?

That's not really how that works, no.

And your projection is obviously not based on watching the guy play the game.

I watch him plenty.

Best in the league? Maybe never, but he could certainly become top 5 possibly top 3, and again.....

First of all, I didn't say anything about his specific ranking, so that's all non-sequitur. That said, top-3 seems vanishingly unlikely, again, without major changes. He's still quite young, so we'll see, but I wouldn't hold my breath for him to become a generational guy. He's good now and he will get better, of course, and "generational guy" is a pretty lofty standard to hold against a player. I think he's good for Minny and all that. But he doesn't stand up to the best international talent in the league right now and I don't expect that to change.

On Team USA, when the old guys retire? Sure, fine, there isn't anything really screaming up around or behind him in terms of American talent at the moment. That could change, but for the moment, he looks like he's among the few, I agree. Which, to be fair as I re-read your original remark, seems to have been your main focus, so that's my bad.

[Warriorfan]

Lebron sells more jerseys and this may be his last olympics

[tsherkin]

At this stage they should be relatively equal on the perimeter because i don't think there is a big gap one way or the other, but Tatum is the better interior defender and rebounder.

Kawhi is a lot better on offense than Tatum by virtue of being a 3-level scorer and just so much better at finishing shots from... basically everywhere. His only question is one of health. Defensively, we'll see. Kawhi's a little older, he conserves his energy a little more. I think he still has more perimeter lockdown capability than Tatum, but less consistency in his 30s. Some of that may be from the injuries, but in the end, it doesn't matter why. Maybe with fewer minutes per game and less of an overall grind, he'll get some of that back. Either way, the most pronounced difference is how considerably far above Tatum he is as a scoring threat.

[AussieBuck]

Lebron's going to run the team, Tatum is a stretch 4. They aren't competing with each other?

[Sealab2024]

Well if he wasn't better or at least as good as the next guy he wouldn't be starting would he?

That's not really how that works, no.

And your projection is obviously not based on watching the guy play the game.

I watch him plenty.

Best in the league? Maybe never, but he could certainly become top 5 possibly top 3, and again.....

First of all, I didn't say anything about his specific ranking, so that's all non-sequitur. That said, top-3 seems vanishingly unlikely, again, without major changes. He's still quite young, so we'll see, but I wouldn't hold my breath for him to become a generational guy. He's good now and he will get better, of course, and "generational guy" is a pretty lofty standard to hold against a player. I think he's good for Minny and all that. But he doesn't stand up to the best international talent in the league right now and I don't expect that to change.

On Team USA, when the old guys retire? Sure, fine, there isn't anything really screaming up around or behind him in terms of American talent at the moment. That could change, but for the moment, he looks like he's among the few, I agree. Which, to be fair as I re-read your original remark, seems to have been your main focus, so that's my bad.

Honestly, we need Ja back, we need Chet and Paolo to take a jump in the next few years cause I don't see any other size and Brandon Ingram is needed as well. The Tyreses, Maxey And Haliburton are coming along nicely but the Ball brothers were a train wreck and there's always JT and JB, but the pickings get sparse.

Truth is this is probably the last year the US gets to trump the world like this, cause by next time it's a different story.