Knicks/Magic Post Game - READ POST 1

[JayTWill]

Yeah, I wasn't calling it a lucky game and I like the Knicks' defensive effort for much of the game but the Magic obviously lack shooting and Suggs being forced into the #1 option role has its limitations. I'm curious how the teams will matchup at full strength.

I think we stomp them at full strength. I think healthy Mitch would single-handedly cancel out many of their advantages (size rebounding). We dismantled them at the Garden and we also took everything they could throw at us on defense tonight.

The Magic are horrible on the road so any series with them, especially if the Knick get a higher seed, will be interesting but still would favor the Knicks. They already play super physical and dirty, and were allowed to tonight. What other level can they get to in the playoffs?

I don't know. Before this game the Knicks were 2nd in the NBA with an offensive rating of 120. They shot over 40% from 3 and more doubled the Magic's free throw attempts with 30FTA while their top 3 options in Brunson, KAT and Bridges looked pretty good. Somehow the Magic still held the offense to a rating of 106 which would rank near the bottom of the league so their defense did its job.

Offensively the Magic aren't a great team but having their top 2 offensive options back should help so I assume they could go to another level than we saw tonight on that end.

[matchman]

Nice bounce back win after that damn Hawk game. If this break can keep players fresher until all star break then I consider it as a consolation prize of NBA cup elimination.

The way Magic getting away with all those hacking and whacking ... Is it the key to their "top notch defense". Imagine if Knicks play like this, how many foul outs of the starters per game? And Suggs seems surprised he got that sixth personal foul (head scratcher)

[Jalen Bluntson]

It's nice to tough it out and get a gritty win. But I need to see this kind of POA defense against better guards than Jalen Suggs.

Mikal really helped get through the slow start by getting some easy looks in transition and off cuts.

Cam Payne's scuffle finally got the refs to blow the whistle, which helped Brunson and Towns a lot.

Deuce only hit a pair of threes, but they were timely.

KAT got out of control at times but honestly handled the physicality well. His rebounding was crucial. If only he'd stop the dumb offensive fouls. Also, his defense was still ass. Mo Wagner...really?

We are still a work in progress and are finally getting out bench together. 2-1 since Precious returned. With Thibs working in new rotations, I think we will probably be up and down against better teams but we should stop struggling against the scrubs.

We need Mitch and hopefully Leon surprises us with his usual mid season trades that spark runs. I like where we are after 26 games and no bench. We need those bench numbers to improve dramatically though if we really wanna make noise this year. We are avg 20.4 points off the bench. That's like league worst so far. Need to fix that and, as happy as I am to have Precious back, he's not enough. Thibs needs more because he's a maniac!

[Context]

Still cant get over this crazy work right here

Read on Twitter

[The KnicksFix]

We already start a super undersized lineup. Hart is the secondary rebounder(at 6’4). We would be too undersized to compete if we pushed it any further

Also hart had 5 stocks in this game(more than anybody on either team) weird to criticize his defense he was battling out there

Defense is more than just stocks numbers. In most games this season, Hart has been bad more than half his minutes. That’s way too often.

I’m not too sure I agree with that. You can poke holes in any player this season. What is irrefutable is Hart’s rebounding and ability to push the ball in transition is extremely valuable. KAT is already leading the league in reb/game. He might implode if he’s asked to battle more.

I think we all agree that the starters play too many minutes. Hopefully there’s change there before it’s too late.

I disagree with that, if you look at last year’s lineup, the only bigs were Hartenstein and Precious. Deuce has been the better defender over Hart, and has caused more missed shots. Whereas Deuce is stopping opponents from scoring, Hart is simply giving up more points per minute. Give me the defender who can stop opponent scoring, and I’ll roll the dice on the rebound, instead of Hart who just gives up buckets.

[The KnicksFix]

Harts defense is usually crap for at least half the game. Drifting off 3pt shooters to help when helps not needed, getting bodied by smaller and bigger dudes for layup drives, being out of position… he’s a 6th man being forced to play a starter’s role.

Switch him to the bench
Start Deuce

We already start a super undersized lineup. Hart is the secondary rebounder(at 6’4). We would be too undersized to compete if we pushed it any further

Also hart had 5 stocks in this game(more than anybody on either team) weird to criticize his defense he was battling out there

Weird to not see Hart is a turnstile on defense, and giving up an incredible amount of open three’s and jumpers.
Weird to not see Hart was a +9, yet Deuce was a +6 in 12 less minutes on the court.
Weird to not see Hart could provide more of a punch/kick off the bench.
Weird.

[The KnicksFix]

Give me a rebounder next to KAT, give me Mitch, KAT, OG, Mikal, Brunson
Knicks legit can go from worst to first in rebounding

[Jalen Bluntson]

Defense is more than just stocks numbers. In most games this season, Hart has been bad more than half his minutes. That’s way too often.

I’m not too sure I agree with that. You can poke holes in any player this season. What is irrefutable is Hart’s rebounding and ability to push the ball in transition is extremely valuable. KAT is already leading the league in reb/game. He might implode if he’s asked to battle more.

I think we all agree that the starters play too many minutes. Hopefully there’s change there before it’s too late.

I disagree with that, if you look at last year’s lineup, the only bigs were Hartenstein and Precious. Deuce has been the better defender over Hart, and has caused more missed shots. Whereas Deuce is stopping opponents from scoring, Hart is simply giving up more points per minute. Give me the defender who can stop opponent scoring, and I’ll roll the dice on the rebound, instead of Hart who just gives up buckets.

I don't really mess around with stats much so, help me out here.
Defensive ratings this year per stat muse
Josh 112.3
OG 113
Deuce 116.1
Mikal 117

I reject the notion that Hart is a bad defender. I keep hearing people say this but, I never agreed. I have never seen anything that makes me think he's a bad defender. Maybe some other advanced metrics I don't know about tell a different story? My eye test tells me he's a DAWG!

The only thing about Hart that bothers me is, if we are going to have him and Precious together he needs to look to score more. He is shooting around 40% from three. He's one of the best scorers in the league in the paint. He defends. He drives. He moves the ball and pushes the pace. I don't get the "hate". He's a warrior out there and he brings the energy and the attitude we love. He's one of the best glue guys I remember us having the way he's playing this year.

14.1/8.2/5.5/1.5/0.3
59.4/40.4/82.1 69.4TS%

[Parraknick]

Defense is more than just stocks numbers. In most games this season, Hart has been bad more than half his minutes. That’s way too often.

I’m not too sure I agree with that. You can poke holes in any player this season. What is irrefutable is Hart’s rebounding and ability to push the ball in transition is extremely valuable. KAT is already leading the league in reb/game. He might implode if he’s asked to battle more.

I think we all agree that the starters play too many minutes. Hopefully there’s change there before it’s too late.

I disagree with that, if you look at last year’s lineup, the only bigs were Hartenstein and Precious. Deuce has been the better defender over Hart, and has caused more missed shots. Whereas Deuce is stopping opponents from scoring, Hart is simply giving up more points per minute. Give me the defender who can stop opponent scoring, and I’ll roll the dice on the rebound, instead of Hart who just gives up buckets.

I love Deuce but it’s important to note that Hart is playing too many minutes right now. He’s probably exhausted most of the time. Deuce has the advantage of being a lot fresher when he hits the court.

Hart is also shooting the ball extremely well this season. He’s improved dramatically in every category this year. I personally feel he deserves to start. He’s unselfish, he gives the starting lineup some semblance of pace.

We have no perfect solution but I don’t think Deuce in for Hart is better than the existing.

[Adelheid]

I’m not too sure I agree with that. You can poke holes in any player this season. What is irrefutable is Hart’s rebounding and ability to push the ball in transition is extremely valuable. KAT is already leading the league in reb/game. He might implode if he’s asked to battle more.

I think we all agree that the starters play too many minutes. Hopefully there’s change there before it’s too late.

I disagree with that, if you look at last year’s lineup, the only bigs were Hartenstein and Precious. Deuce has been the better defender over Hart, and has caused more missed shots. Whereas Deuce is stopping opponents from scoring, Hart is simply giving up more points per minute. Give me the defender who can stop opponent scoring, and I’ll roll the dice on the rebound, instead of Hart who just gives up buckets.

I love Deuce but it’s important to note that Hart is playing too many minutes right now. He’s probably exhausted most of the time. Deuce has the advantage of being a lot fresher when he hits the court.

Hart is also shooting the ball extremely well this season. He’s improved dramatically in every category this year. I personally feel he deserves to start. He’s unselfish, he gives the starting lineup some semblance of pace.

We have no perfect solution but I don’t think Deuce in for Hart is better than the existing.

tell that to thibs...apparently(to him), humans have infinite energy and maintains performance no matter how long they play

[Parraknick]

I disagree with that, if you look at last year’s lineup, the only bigs were Hartenstein and Precious. Deuce has been the better defender over Hart, and has caused more missed shots. Whereas Deuce is stopping opponents from scoring, Hart is simply giving up more points per minute. Give me the defender who can stop opponent scoring, and I’ll roll the dice on the rebound, instead of Hart who just gives up buckets.

I love Deuce but it’s important to note that Hart is playing too many minutes right now. He’s probably exhausted most of the time. Deuce has the advantage of being a lot fresher when he hits the court.

Hart is also shooting the ball extremely well this season. He’s improved dramatically in every category this year. I personally feel he deserves to start. He’s unselfish, he gives the starting lineup some semblance of pace.

We have no perfect solution but I don’t think Deuce in for Hart is better than the existing.

tell that to thibs...apparently(to him), humans have infinite energy and maintains performance no matter how long they play

Haha I keep writing to him. Damn he’s a hard nut to crack

[Jalen Bluntson]

I just took a peek at the Magic board. They are all kinds of salty over there. I never had any ill will towards the Magic or their fans. I still have no issue with their fans but, they have a very unlikable team. Suggs/Mo/Goga all have very punchable faces! I would love Goga here though! Mo wouldn't be a bad player to have either. Then I wouldn't wanna punch their faces.

[thebuzzardman]

Mid

[Jalen Bluntson]

Mid

New rule. At least once per game thread and post game you have to make one of your insightful well thought our posts! Then spam away!

[MrDollarBills]

I need to see this kind of physicality and approach to every game going forward.

[MrDollarBills]

Some of yall should travel to Orlando for the Knicks game on December 27th

It will be cheaper than seeing a game in MSG and will still feel like a home game

Then we could do a realGM takeover of downtown Orlando and let the realgm Orlando Magic subforum that we took over their town

Orlando is kind of a depressing place to visit from what I remember.

[MrDollarBills]

I’m not too sure I agree with that. You can poke holes in any player this season. What is irrefutable is Hart’s rebounding and ability to push the ball in transition is extremely valuable. KAT is already leading the league in reb/game. He might implode if he’s asked to battle more.

I think we all agree that the starters play too many minutes. Hopefully there’s change there before it’s too late.

I disagree with that, if you look at last year’s lineup, the only bigs were Hartenstein and Precious. Deuce has been the better defender over Hart, and has caused more missed shots. Whereas Deuce is stopping opponents from scoring, Hart is simply giving up more points per minute. Give me the defender who can stop opponent scoring, and I’ll roll the dice on the rebound, instead of Hart who just gives up buckets.

I love Deuce but it’s important to note that Hart is playing too many minutes right now. He’s probably exhausted most of the time. Deuce has the advantage of being a lot fresher when he hits the court.

Hart is also shooting the ball extremely well this season. He’s improved dramatically in every category this year. I personally feel he deserves to start. He’s unselfish, he gives the starting lineup some semblance of pace.

We have no perfect solution but I don’t think Deuce in for Hart is better than the existing.

I wouldn't start Deuce. I would start Precious.

[Iron Mantis]

Team beat the soft allegations after the Trae taunt by showing toughness DURING the game...not after...

Matched the magic's physicality. KAT throwing Artest elbows, Hart putting Suggs in the weight room and taunting him after, KAT bullying for 22 REB, Payne ready to throw hands, walking into Orlando where they are 10-0 and taking their souls.

Still lots of room to grow, but well done.

[robillionaire]

Switch him to the bench
Start Deuce

We already start a super undersized lineup. Hart is the secondary rebounder(at 6’4). We would be too undersized to compete if we pushed it any further

Also hart had 5 stocks in this game(more than anybody on either team) weird to criticize his defense he was battling out there

Weird to not see Hart is a turnstile on defense, and giving up an incredible amount of open three’s and jumpers.
Weird to not see Hart was a +9, yet Deuce was a +6 in 12 less minutes on the court.
Weird to not see Hart could provide more of a punch/kick off the bench.
Weird.

Ok well advanced stats show he’s the 2nd best defender some of them have him at the top of the team all very positive but you can think what you wish I suppose. The deeply negative defensive players going by the numbers are Brunson and Mikal

[Fat Kat]

Give me a rebounder next to KAT, give me Mitch, KAT, OG, Mikal, Brunson
Knicks legit can go from worst to first in rebounding

You kill the spacing, clog up the paint, and expedite Mitch’s journey to surgeon’s office. Let’s put the twin towers fantasies to bed.