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leswizards wrote:Second, that situation was entirely different from what people are proposing here. 3 youngsters (kd, Jeff green and some other player) got a lot of minutes, but the vast majority of minutes went to veterans. People are proposing the exact opposite here.

So the vast majority of the minutes during KD’s rookie season went to vets and they still only won 20 games. Shouldn’t that tell you something?

If the Zards gave the vast majority of minutes to its vets we would still only win maybe 30-35 games. Probably 5-6 more games than we’d win if they gave those same minutes to the first, second and third yr players.

DCZards wrote:

leswizards wrote:Second, that situation was entirely different from what people are proposing here. 3 youngsters (kd, Jeff green and some other player) got a lot of minutes, but the vast majority of minutes went to veterans. People are proposing the exact opposite here.

So the vast majority of the minutes during KD’s rookie season went to vets and they still only won 20 games. Shouldn’t that tell you something?

If the Zards gave the vast majority of minutes to its vets we would still only win maybe 30-35 games. Probably 5-6 more games than we’d win if they gave those same minutes to the first, second and third yr players.

Many here are pinning their hopes on the wizards being bad enough to win the lottery which implies one of the worst records in the nba again which implies 15 to 20 wins, which implies an actual difference of 15 to 20 wins, not 5 to 6.

Furthermore, the original comment I replied to said something along the lines of the vets could whip the youngsters 7 out of 10 times, which again implies way more than 5 or 6 wins.

closg00 wrote:

payitforward wrote:

Dat2U wrote:How I would align the roster/rotation atm. I would mix/match the vets with young guys to at least start the season and instill some good habits. I would look to upgrade two of the Two-way spots.

PG C.J. McCollum (24) .... Bub Carrington (24)
SG Tre Johnson (28) ........ Marcus Smart (20)
SF Bilal Coulibaly (28)....... Corey Kispert (20)
PF Khris Middleton (20) ... Kyshawn George (28)
CE Alex Sarr (28) ............... Tristan Vukcevic (20)

vuk is on a 2 way deal

The Wizard have extended the two-way offer, but he has not accepted the offer as of this post, looking for more than a two-way offer most-likely.

Aaah. Didn't know that.

Houston had 3 straight seasons with 55+ losses from '20-'23 . Didn't seem to hurt them this year.

Detroit was in the toilet for 5 years but gave the Knicks all they could handle in the playoffs.

I don't see any hurry trying to win games now. It takes time for young guys to learn how to play.

I find it quite interesting that a few of the posters who were quite adamant a few days ago about how great this front office’s drafting has been are just as adamant that the best way to ensure that the wizards have one of the worst records in nba again is to play those players as many minutes as possible.

leswizards wrote:

payitforward wrote:

leswizards wrote:Only thing the Wizards are teaching the youngsters right now is how to be a bunch of losers. ....

Respectfully, I must disagree.
How much damage was done to KD, for example, by Seattle's 20-win season his rookie year?

First, I am sure he hated losing as much as any athlete does.

Second, that situation was entirely different from what people are proposing here. 3 youngsters (kd, Jeff green and some other player) got a lot of minutes, but the vast majority of minutes went to veterans. People are proposing the exact opposite here.

Third, kd’s team had 50 wins by his third season. What I see people proposing here is they hope and think the Wizards will have one of the worst records in the nba again next season, and maybe even the season after that, which means three or four straight seasons of being awful. That kind of consistent losing will tax a person.

Who said anything about 3 or 4 seasons?

Sarr, Bub, Kyshawn, AJ have tanked for exactly 1 season. This season will make 2.
Tre and Riley haven't tanked at all. After this season, they will have tanked for exactly 1 season.

Bilal is the only guy who matters that will be in his 3rd year of tanking. And, by all accounts, he is a tough-minded, hard-working dude who seems to have the mental makeup to handle it.

This is the last season I'm suggesting we tank. And we are doing it because of the all-or-nothing aspect of that protected pick. In future seasons, they can try and win as much as they want.

leswizards wrote:I find it quite interesting that a few of the posters who were quite adamant a few days ago about how great this front office’s drafting has been are just as adamant that the best way to ensure that the wizards have one of the worst records in nba again is to play those players as many minutes as possible.

You say this as if it is clever.

There is no cognitive dissonance between the two stances. The front office is good because they have done well with the picks that they have. And they are also good because they are strategically tanking to maximize the amount of talent they acquire while in this rebuilding phase.

nate33 wrote:

leswizards wrote:I find it quite interesting that a few of the posters who were quite adamant a few days ago about how great this front office’s drafting has been are just as adamant that the best way to ensure that the wizards have one of the worst records in nba again is to play those players as many minutes as possible.

You say this as if it is clever.

There is no cognitive dissonance between the two stances. The front office is good because they have done well with the picks that they have. And they are also good because they are strategically tanking to maximize the amount of talent they acquire while in this rebuilding phase.

You have an amazing crystal ball to be able to predict that these draft picks will produce one of the worst records in the nba again, that the Wizards won’t miss out on the lottery again, and that this draft picks who are destined to have one of the worst records in the nba in this upcoming season, will suddenly turn it around the season after that and produce a winning team.

It is surely true that we spend too much time having takes about what might come of basketball decisions and not enough reaffirming the essential wisdom of Socrates.

leswizards wrote:I find it quite interesting that a few of the posters who were quite adamant a few days ago about how great this front office’s drafting has been are just as adamant that the best way to ensure that the wizards have one of the worst records in nba again is to play those players as many minutes as possible.

LOL...

I'm happy to have this discussion with you. Would it be ok, however, to keep it a discussion -- i.e. not to turn it into an argument?

What I'd like to hear from you is what YOU would do -- both now and, to the degree you think it's relevant, over the last 25 months -- since the new guys took over.

Is that a reasonable request?

It would be fair to answer, "I don't know. I'm not an expert." But such an answer might point to the possible conclusion that there is nothing to do but keep making the best draft picks we can until things start to turn around.

Alternatively, you might say "I'd have taken X instead of Bilal, Y instead of Sarr", etc....Or whatever...

Make sense? Is that a fair request?

Ed Wood wrote:It is surely true that we spend too much time having takes about what might come of basketball decisions and not enough reaffirming the essential wisdom of Socrates.

Thanks.

I'm off to Google Socrates and the Socratic Method.

Who was he, and why was he considered wise?

While I'm at it, I'm going to look up Herodotas and Josephus.

payitforward wrote:

leswizards wrote:I find it quite interesting that a few of the posters who were quite adamant a few days ago about how great this front office’s drafting has been are just as adamant that the best way to ensure that the wizards have one of the worst records in nba again is to play those players as many minutes as possible.

LOL...

I'm happy to have this discussion with you. Would it be ok, however, to keep it a discussion -- i.e. not to turn it into an argument?

What I'd like to hear from you is what YOU would do -- both now and, to the degree you think it's relevant, over the last 25 months -- since the new guys took over.

Is that a reasonable request?

It would be fair to answer, "I don't know. I'm not an expert." But such an answer might point to the possible conclusion that there is nothing to do but keep making the best draft picks we can until things start to turn around.

Alternatively, you might say "I'd have taken X instead of Bilal, Y instead of Sarr", etc....Or whatever...

Make sense? Is that a fair request?

I don’t remember what I would have done in the Bilal draft. In fact, I think I just gave the new front office the benefit of the doubt and I hoped for the best.

Last year (and if you are bored, you find posts where I was clearly high on Zach Edey), if I had the power and the prognosis power to predict where people would be drafted, I would have my three picks to try and get the 9, 12 and whatever highest pick that I could have gotten. I would have taken Edey, Nikola Topic, and the player who I would project to be the most likely to out produce his rookie contract. Not knowing where the third pick would be, I didn’t really put much thought into the third player. I did like Dalton knecht, but I doubt that the wizards three picks last season could be traded for the 9, 12 and 17. Wouldn’t have traded Deni. Would have traded Kuzma, but not knowing what I would’ve gotten in return, let’s defer his trade to when it actually happened.

Would have traded the wizards three picks this season for the 10, 24 and 25. I would have taken maluach, Clifford and Richardson.

If Edey can be one of most dominant centers of all time (which I believe he can be), if topic can stay healthy and be a dominant pg, if Deni can continue improving and be a reliable third of the big three, if maluach can play 12 mpg as backup pf against backup pf (in addition to 18 mpg as a center), the wizards would have a team that could already start winning this season, and could potentially make a run at the championship.

Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, and Phaedo are the 4 dialogues by Plato in which Socrates' final days. Great stuff. plenty of pdfs online...

Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, and Phaedo — on themes evoked by the trial

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/13726/13726-h/13726-h.htm

I did not foresee this going this way, which I suppose more legitimately substantiates what was meant to be a more tongue-in-cheek throwaway.

it is pretty welcome...

I think Euthyphro is too stiff to play power forward. Strictly an undersized center.

payitforward wrote:Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, and Phaedo — on themes evoked by the trial

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/13726/13726-h/13726-h.htm

You probably went to high school with these guys

nate33 wrote:

leswizards wrote:I find it quite interesting that a few of the posters who were quite adamant a few days ago about how great this front office’s drafting has been are just as adamant that the best way to ensure that the wizards have one of the worst records in nba again is to play those players as many minutes as possible.

You say this as if it is clever.

There is no cognitive dissonance between the two stances. The front office is good because they have done well with the picks that they have. And they are also good because they are strategically tanking to maximize the amount of talent they acquire while in this rebuilding phase.

And not just tanking but actively developing players and sorting out who will be able to make the jump.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:...

I'm off to Google Socrates and the Socratic Method.

Who was he, and why was he considered wise?

While I'm at it, I'm going to look up Herodotas and Josephus.

Socrates was Plato's teacher in ancient Greece. Plato's dialogues are presented as conversations between S and various interlocutors. You'll love them, Ken. The ones concerning his last days and death especially but also The Symposium, which is about love. Great stuff.

Herodotus was the first Greek historian.

Josephus comes along 600 years later. A fascinating figure to say the least! A Romanized Jewish historian of the destruction of Judea.