Does this Kobe stance have real merit

[falcolombardi]

Yeah, he was making All-Defense at 21 and 22 years old because of his reputation.

This is the ironic part.

Posters in this thread hating on an all-time great defender failing to see the fact that Bryant was a great defender from the get-go, all-defensive team from the ages of 21-25 (1999-00 to 2003-04).

Calling kobe an all time great defender is a wild stretch lol

His impact metrics, a unconsistent stat admittedly, are persistently and agressively average, his own coach was critical of his defense, and on tape is clear he is not much of a great help defender nor did he actually guard opposite stars all that often or effectively

[Primedeion]

Biases happen and voter awards in -anything-cam have them

And kobe shares a lot of similarities with jeter as a beloved star of a dinasty

Yeah, except they're not similar at all. Kobe ranks far higher as a player in his sport and deserved a bunch of those All-Defense teams.

Yeah, he was making All-Defense at 21 and 22 years old because of his reputation. You got it, buddy.

And yeah, playing for the Lakers really helped LBJ rack up those defensive accolades. He's not a big star at all.

Yeah, he was instead making the all star in 98 as a backup purely on performance merits instead i assume

if you are gonna act condescendent like that you got to make better examples for your arguments at least

Kobe was a extremely popular player before he was close to a star in actual play and made all D teams c5past the point it was obvious he was coasting completely on that end and focusing on offense

No, he made the All-Star team because he was doing something like 18/4/3/+3 rTS in only 28 MPG before the All-Star break, and was a HUGE reason the Lakers still had a great record despite Shaq missing a TON of time. And this was in the dead-ball era where very few guys were out there scoring 20+. You didn't know any of this, did you?

If you're going to hate on the guy, at least get your facts straight.

And it's cute how you completely ignore my points. Again, he was making All-Defense at 21 and 22 yrs old? Wait. Let me guess. That was all reputation.

And playing for the Lakers has really led to LBJ racking up a ton of defensive accolades. He's not a huge star all all.

[Primedeion]

Yeah, he was making All-Defense at 21 and 22 years old because of his reputation.

This is the ironic part.

Posters in this thread hating on an all-time great defender failing to see the fact that Bryant was a great defender from the get-go, all-defensive team from the ages of 21-25 (1999-00 to 2003-04).

Calling kobe an all time great defender is a wild stretch lol

His impact metrics, a unconsistent stat admittedly, are persistently and agressively average, his own coach was critical of his defense, and on tape is clear he is not much of a great help defender nor did he actually guard opposite stars all that often or effectively

He guarded stars literally all the time, and was consistently effective. His defensive impact metrics are plenty comparable to guys like Wade prime vs prime and peak vs peak, and you people have zero problems seeing Wade as some sort ATG defensive SG. And Phil Jackson also said this about his defense:

"Kobe has learned a lot from studying Michael’s tricks, and we often used him as our secret weapon on defense when we needed to turn the direction of a game," Phil Jackson wrote in his book Eleven Rings: The Soul of Success.

And there's professional scouts praising his defense:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kobe-Bryant-1851/

Defense: Easily the best perimeter defender on the Los Angeles roster. Absolutely great when he wants to be. Will get in his mans jersey, stay low, and move his feet to make his man give the ball up. Shows very good lateral quickness and the ability to hawk the ball. Possesses enough strength to defend his man in the post as well. Always gets a hand up on jump shooters. Displays great timing and anticipation when shooting into passing lanes for deflections. Will look to block shots when he sees his teammates get beat. Rebounds at a high rate. Excellent across the board. -

Nice try tho.

[kcktiny]

on tape is clear he is not much of a great help defender nor did he actually guard opposite stars all that often or effectively

Clueless to a fault.

Let's see how much of this tape you actually watch.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[iggymcfrack]

Kobe wasn't an impact player defensively at any point in his career.

Just - clueless.

One of the greatest defensive SGs in league history, all-defensive 1st team 9 times, all-defensive 2nd team 3 times, all voted on by NBA head coaches, and that is your assessment of his defense?

Englemann's RAPM which you're citing here rates Kobe as a bottom 10% defender in the league over the course of his career

And this is the nonsense you believe? A mathematical concoction done by a person that clearly did not watch Bryant during his career.

You think someone who makes a mathematical formula to adjust on/off for teammates should adjust it for the eye test based on what he thought of watching Kobe for his career? Also, you think someone who’s been on the forefront of basketball analytics for the last 2 decades never watched Kobe Bryant play basketball?

What the **** are you even babbling about here. You’re talking nonsense. Objectively, the Lakers defense was significantly worse when Kobe played then when he didn’t over the course of 20 years. It doesn’t matter whether you remember him playing good on-ball D when he was trying in the last 2 minutes of close games.

[One_and_Done]

on tape is clear he is not much of a great help defender nor did he actually guard opposite stars all that often or effectively

Clueless to a fault.

Let's see how much of this tape you actually watch.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

You can stitch together a highlight reel that makes Kelly Oubre look like a star. This is the NBA. Everyone has highlights.

[Primedeion]

you remember him playing good on-ball D when he was trying in the last 2 minutes of close games.

Dude is still using 20 year career data when the entire discussion was centered around peaks.

He probably thinks Kobe Bryant and Derek Fisher are comparable players. After all, 25 year RAPMz has them right next to each other.



Just hilarious stuff.

[70sFan]

This is the ironic part.

Posters in this thread hating on an all-time great defender failing to see the fact that Bryant was a great defender from the get-go, all-defensive team from the ages of 21-25 (1999-00 to 2003-04).

Calling kobe an all time great defender is a wild stretch lol

His impact metrics, a unconsistent stat admittedly, are persistently and agressively average, his own coach was critical of his defense, and on tape is clear he is not much of a great help defender nor did he actually guard opposite stars all that often or effectively

He guarded stars literally all the time, and was consistently effective. His defensive impact metrics are plenty comparable to guys like Wade prime vs prime and peak vs peak, and you people have zero problems seeing Wade as some sort ATG defensive SG. And Phil Jackson also said this about his defense:

"Kobe has learned a lot from studying Michael’s tricks, and we often used him as our secret weapon on defense when we needed to turn the direction of a game," Phil Jackson wrote in his book Eleven Rings: The Soul of Success.

And there's professional scouts praising his defense:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kobe-Bryant-1851/

Defense: Easily the best perimeter defender on the Los Angeles roster. Absolutely great when he wants to be. Will get in his mans jersey, stay low, and move his feet to make his man give the ball up. Shows very good lateral quickness and the ability to hawk the ball. Possesses enough strength to defend his man in the post as well. Always gets a hand up on jump shooters. Displays great timing and anticipation when shooting into passing lanes for deflections. Will look to block shots when he sees his teammates get beat. Rebounds at a high rate. Excellent across the board. -

Nice try tho.

I mean, if scout says he was good defensively "when he wants to be", then I wouldn't count that as a praise...

[Primedeion]

Calling kobe an all time great defender is a wild stretch lol

His impact metrics, a unconsistent stat admittedly, are persistently and agressively average, his own coach was critical of his defense, and on tape is clear he is not much of a great help defender nor did he actually guard opposite stars all that often or effectively

He guarded stars literally all the time, and was consistently effective. His defensive impact metrics are plenty comparable to guys like Wade prime vs prime and peak vs peak, and you people have zero problems seeing Wade as some sort ATG defensive SG. And Phil Jackson also said this about his defense:

"Kobe has learned a lot from studying Michael’s tricks, and we often used him as our secret weapon on defense when we needed to turn the direction of a game," Phil Jackson wrote in his book Eleven Rings: The Soul of Success.

And there's professional scouts praising his defense:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kobe-Bryant-1851/

Defense: Easily the best perimeter defender on the Los Angeles roster. Absolutely great when he wants to be. Will get in his mans jersey, stay low, and move his feet to make his man give the ball up. Shows very good lateral quickness and the ability to hawk the ball. Possesses enough strength to defend his man in the post as well. Always gets a hand up on jump shooters. Displays great timing and anticipation when shooting into passing lanes for deflections. Will look to block shots when he sees his teammates get beat. Rebounds at a high rate. Excellent across the board. -

Nice try tho.

I mean, if scout says he was good defensively "when he wants to be", then I wouldn't count that as a praise...

Maybe you should read the rest of the report, buddy.

Try focusing on that first and last sentence while you're at it.

[70sFan]

He guarded stars literally all the time, and was consistently effective. His defensive impact metrics are plenty comparable to guys like Wade prime vs prime and peak vs peak, and you people have zero problems seeing Wade as some sort ATG defensive SG. And Phil Jackson also said this about his defense:

"Kobe has learned a lot from studying Michael’s tricks, and we often used him as our secret weapon on defense when we needed to turn the direction of a game," Phil Jackson wrote in his book Eleven Rings: The Soul of Success.

And there's professional scouts praising his defense:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kobe-Bryant-1851/


Nice try tho.

I mean, if scout says he was good defensively "when he wants to be", then I wouldn't count that as a praise...

Maybe you should read the rest of the report, buddy.

Try focusing on that first and last sentence while you're at it.

I did and I don't know what year it is from (the link is dead), so I can't comment on that. Kobe definitely was the best perimeter defender of his team in some seasons, he's definitely not in others.

I learnt in my long basketball journey that when you need to add "when tries" comment on defensive evaluation, then it means we're not talking about true all-d guy. I've never heard someone saying that a player is a great offensive player when tries. Great defenders play great defense, period. You don't need to arbitrarily decide when they try and when not.

[Primedeion]

I mean, if scout says he was good defensively "when he wants to be", then I wouldn't count that as a praise...

Maybe you should read the rest of the report, buddy.

Try focusing on that first and last sentence while you're at it.

I did and I don't know what year it is from (the link is dead), so I can't comment on that.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110310221054/https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kobe-Bryant-1851/


The link is from 2008, buddy. I literally said this. And he's saying that Bryant could dial things up when he needed to, not that he wasn't consistently strong.

It's hilarious how you're hyper focusing on that one specific part but ignoring the rest of it.

Easily the best perimeter defender on the Los Angeles roster.

Yep. Easily the best perimeter defender on top five defense.

Will get in his mans jersey, stay low, and move his feet to make his man give the ball up. Shows very good lateral quickness and the ability to hawk the ball. Possesses enough strength to defend his man in the post as well. Always gets a hand up on jump shooters. Displays great timing and anticipation when shooting into passing lanes for deflections. Will look to block shots when he sees his teammates get beat. Rebounds at a high rate. Excellent across the board. -

"Excellent across the board". Funny how you have nothing to say about this.

Again, this is literally in the report.

[Primedeion]

Jonathan Givony is an NBA Draft expert and writer for ESPN. He's considered a well-connected and highly regarded source in the NBA Draft space. Givony's career highlights include: Founding DraftExpress.com** In 2003, Givony founded DraftExpress.com, a private scouting and analytics service used by international, NCAA, and NBA teams. Joining ESPN** In 2017, Givony joined ESPN to cover the NBA Draft and international basketball full-time.

Jonathan Givony on 08 Kobe's defense:

Has become one of the League’s best defensive players as he’s progressed. Capable of playing lock down defense when it counts. Pulls down rebounds in traffic when he decides to pursue them. Never afraid to do it all late in games. Among the league leader year in and year out in minutes played. Conditioning is legendary.

Defense: Easily the best perimeter defender on the Los Angeles roster. Absolutely great when he wants to be. Will get in his mans jersey, stay low, and move his feet to make his man give the ball up. Shows very good lateral quickness and the ability to hawk the ball. Possesses enough strength to defend his man in the post as well. Always gets a hand up on jump shooters. Displays great timing and anticipation when shooting into passing lanes for deflections. Will look to block shots when he sees his teammates get beat. Rebounds at a high rate. Excellent across the board.

Somebody tell this dude about his twenty year career RAPMz. I'm sure he'll change his mind about the type of defender he was at his peak.

[70sFan]

Maybe you should read the rest of the report, buddy.

Try focusing on that first and last sentence while you're at it.

I did and I don't know what year it is from (the link is dead), so I can't comment on that.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110310221054/https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kobe-Bryant-1851/


The link is from 2008, buddy. I literally said this. And he's saying that Bryant could dial things up when he needed to, not that he wasn't consistently strong.

It's hilarious how you're hyper focusing on that one specific part but ignoring the rest of it.

Easily the best perimeter defender on the Los Angeles roster.

Yep. Easily the best perimeter defender on top five defense.

Will get in his mans jersey, stay low, and move his feet to make his man give the ball up. Shows very good lateral quickness and the ability to hawk the ball. Possesses enough strength to defend his man in the post as well. Always gets a hand up on jump shooters. Displays great timing and anticipation when shooting into passing lanes for deflections. Will look to block shots when he sees his teammates get beat. Rebounds at a high rate. Excellent across the board. -

"Excellent across the board". Funny how you have nothing to say about this.

Again, this is literally in the report.

Thanks, yeah 2008 is one of the better defensive seasons from Kobe. It's also perfectly reasonable to call him the best perimeter defender of that team, though the team wasn't good defensively only because of their perimeter defense.

Anyway, I am not going to discuss with someone who can't just talk about basketball without passive-agressive comments all around.

[iggymcfrack]

you remember him playing good on-ball D when he was trying in the last 2 minutes of close games.

Dude is still using 20 year career data when the entire discussion was centered around peaks.

He probably thinks Kobe Bryant and Derek Fisher are comparable players. After all, 25 year RAPMz has them right next to each other.



Just hilarious stuff.

You’re the one using slightly positive DRAPM numbers for a couple years as evidence Kobe was “elite” defensively when even Derek Fisher had much better impact numbers.

For the record, I don’t think Fisher was elite defensively. I think both he and Kobe were close enough to average as to not have much impact either way in most years, but if you’re comparing the evidence for how one of them might have had a significant positive impact, I think Fisher’s consistently positive DRAPMs are stronger evidence than Kobe’s ridiculously absurd all-defense teams, LOL.

[Primedeion]

you remember him playing good on-ball D when he was trying in the last 2 minutes of close games.

Dude is still using 20 year career data when the entire discussion was centered around peaks.

He probably thinks Kobe Bryant and Derek Fisher are comparable players. After all, 25 year RAPMz has them right next to each other.



Just hilarious stuff.

You’re the one using slightly positive DRAPM numbers for a couple years as evidence Kobe was “elite” defensively when even Derek Fisher had much better impact numbers.

Yeah, I’m the one *gasp* using his DRAPM numbers from those actual seasons as part of my evaluation of him as a defender in, say, 2008. I don’t want to blow your mind, but his career numbers are completely irrelevant when we’re discussing how good of a defensive guard he was at his peak. By the way, he was excellent. I’ll keep repeating this until it finally sinks in.

[One_and_Done]

Dude is still using 20 year career data when the entire discussion was centered around peaks.

He probably thinks Kobe Bryant and Derek Fisher are comparable players. After all, 25 year RAPMz has them right next to each other.



Just hilarious stuff.

You’re the one using slightly positive DRAPM numbers for a couple years as evidence Kobe was “elite” defensively when even Derek Fisher had much better impact numbers.

Yeah, I’m the one *gasp* using his DRAPM numbers from those actual seasons as part of my evaluation of him as a defender in, say, 2008. I don’t want to blow your mind, but his career numbers are completely irrelevant when we’re discussing how good of a defensive guard he was at his peak. By the way, he was excellent. I’ll keep repeating this until it finally sinks in.

Not that I care about DRAPM numbers, but this strikes me as slightly disingenuous because I have seen you rate Kobe very highly for his career too. While the current tangent you're on relates to his peak, the focus on those numbers loses credibility if you're only willing to invoke them selectively. This isn't a thread limited to Kobe's peak either.

[kcktiny]

You can stitch together a highlight reel that makes Kelly Oubre look like a star. This is the NBA. Everyone has highlights.

What's the matter? Afraid to watch defensive highlights of a great defensive player? Afraid to see the truth?

Yes, dismiss anything contrary to your wholly biased opinion and resolve to have that opinion be based solely on a mathematical calculation done by another who also did not watch Bryant play. Because you are too lazy to watch him yourself.

I learnt in my long basketball journey

Oh yes. That l-o-n-g basketball journey.

Say, in your long basketball journey were you actually watching Kobe Bryant the first few years he was named to the all-defensive team, like from 1999-00 to 2003-04? Or were you just a toddler? In other words is your view of Bryant's defense early in his career based on your experience of watching him at that time or is it all second hand info?

then it means we're not talking about true all-d guy.

Oh no?

I find it quite hypocritical that you consider yourself some sort of expert on Chamberlain and Russell having watched - what - all of some 20-30 games of each when each has played 1000+ NBA games...

Kobe definitely was the best perimeter defender of his team in some seasons, he's definitely not in others.

...but you then scoff at the all-defensive team voting of NBA head coaches - Bryant as 9 time all-defensive 1st team - that watched far more games than you. Voted all-defensive 1st team ages 30-32 on the 3rd best defensive team in the league those 3 seasons.

You seem to feel that when you watch games you're some sort of expert, but not NBA head coaches who watch far more games than you.

Great defenders play great defense, period.

Yes they do. Correct.

You don't need to arbitrarily decide when they try and when not.

Unless - evidently - someone 2-4 decades after the fact tries to claim their RAPM mathematical concoction says no they really didn't play great defense all the time, contrary to what everyone else watching back then saw - but you.

According to your mathematical plus/minus on/off concoction all-time great defenders like Kobe Bryant, and Alvin Robertson, and Gary Payton really are not, despite their multiple all-defensive 1st team accolades voted on by NBA head coaches that watched them play, because on/off "impact" metrics say so decades after they played.

Revisionist history. Try actually watching some old-time basketball.

Anyway, I am not going to discuss with someone who can't just talk about basketball without passive-agressive comments all around.

Try discussing basketball with those who claim their "impact" metrics know more about player defense than NBA head coaches.

Like this:

I think Fisher’s consistently positive DRAPMs are stronger evidence than Kobe’s ridiculously absurd all-defense teams

Boy have you found a friend in this guy.

Calling kobe an all time great defender is a wild stretch lol

Was Walt Frazier a great defender? Was Jerry Sloan a great defender? Dave Debusschere? Dave Cowens? Sidney Moncrief? Maurice Cheeks?

How do you know? Did you watch them play?

His impact metrics, a unconsistent stat admittedly

Your "impact" metrics are useless.

Not that I care about DRAPM numbers, but this strikes me as slightly disingenuous

As opposed to you religiously saying older players from past decades are not as good as players of today regardless of who they are? You are the epitome of disingenuous.

the focus on those numbers loses credibility

Yes. We get it. When you quote numbers they are credible. It's when others quote numbers you don't like that they are not.

[One_and_Done]

Did the MVP voters watch Kobe in his career?

[falcolombardi]

You can stitch together a highlight reel that makes Kelly Oubre look like a star. This is the NBA. Everyone has highlights.

What's the matter? Afraid to watch defensive highlights of a great defensive player? Afraid to see the truth?

Yes, dismiss anything contrary to your wholly biased opinion and resolve to have that opinion be based solely on a mathematical calculation done by another who also did not watch Bryant play. Because you are too lazy to watch him yourself.

I learnt in my long basketball journey

Oh yes. That l-o-n-g basketball journey.

Say, in your long basketball journey were you actually watching Kobe Bryant the first few years he was named to the all-defensive team, like from 1999-00 to 2003-04? Or were you just a toddler? In other words is your view of Bryant's defense early in his career based on your experience of watching him at that time or is it all second hand info?

then it means we're not talking about true all-d guy.

Oh no?

I find it quite hypocritical that you consider yourself some sort of expert on Chamberlain and Russell having watched - what - all of some 20-30 games of each when each has played 1000+ NBA games...

Kobe definitely was the best perimeter defender of his team in some seasons, he's definitely not in others.

...but you then scoff at the all-defensive team voting of NBA head coaches - Bryant as 9 time all-defensive 1st team - that watched far more games than you. Voted all-defensive 1st team ages 30-32 on the 3rd best defensive team in the league those 3 seasons.

You seem to feel that when you watch games you're some sort of expert, but not NBA head coaches who watch far more games than you.

Great defenders play great defense, period.

Yes they do. Correct.

You don't need to arbitrarily decide when they try and when not.

Unless - evidently - someone 2-4 decades after the fact tries to claim their RAPM mathematical concoction says no they really didn't play great defense all the time, contrary to what everyone else watching back then saw - but you.

According to your mathematical plus/minus on/off concoction all-time great defenders like Kobe Bryant, and Alvin Robertson, and Gary Payton really are not, despite their multiple all-defensive 1st team accolades voted on by NBA head coaches that watched them play, because on/off "impact" metrics say so decades after they played.

Revisionist history. Try actually watching some old-time basketball.

Anyway, I am not going to discuss with someone who can't just talk about basketball without passive-agressive comments all around.

Try discussing basketball with those who claim their "impact" metrics know more about player defense than NBA head coaches.

Like this:

I think Fisher’s consistently positive DRAPMs are stronger evidence than Kobe’s ridiculously absurd all-defense teams

Boy have you found a friend in this guy.

Calling kobe an all time great defender is a wild stretch lol

Was Walt Frazier a great defender? Was Jerry Sloan a great defender? Dave Debusschere? Dave Cowens? Sidney Moncrief? Maurice Cheeks?

How do you know? Did you watch them play?

His impact metrics, a unconsistent stat admittedly

Your "impact" metrics are useless.

Not that I care about DRAPM numbers, but this strikes me as slightly disingenuous

As opposed to you religiously saying older players from past decades are not as good as players of today regardless of who they are? You are the epitome of disingenuous.

the focus on those numbers loses credibility

Yes. We get it. When you quote numbers they are credible. It's when others quote numbers you don't like that they are not.

So let me get this straight

You come here attacking everyone for disagreeing about kobe defense and not watching games (how do you know they didnt watch him as much or more than you?, because you say so?) And do that by...showing highlight reels? Aka the think anyone who "never watched kobe play" can watch in an afternoon?

You come here all cocky and in full dunning kruger overconfidence and call some of the posters with most footage watched in the whole site for not watching kobe enough (which your circular reasoning says can be the only explanation to not being aa high on kobe as you)?

You realize why nobody in this thread is particularly impressed with your arguments right? Even beyond the basketball arguments you are using being vague appeals to authority of old voters instead of any actual analysis of kobe play

why even come to a basketball discussion forum if you think all D awards are unquestionable dogma?

[kcktiny]

Even beyond the basketball arguments you are using being vague appeals to authority of old voters instead of any actual analysis of kobe play

What actual analysis are you talking about? You can't even have a basketball discussion without resorting to a plus/minus on/off concoction that has no basis in fact. You call all-D awards unquestionable dogma, yet you have conniption fits when your dogma RAPM or any other of your on/off nonsense is questioned because you seemingly can't understand the NBA without it.

Maybe you should actually watch the NBA.

Did you or did you not post these?:

Kobe was a extremely popular player before he was close to a star in actual play and made all D teams c5past the point it was obvious he was coasting completely on that end and focusing on offense

Calling kobe an all time great defender is a wild stretch lol

nor did he actually guard opposite stars all that often or effectively

Watch Bryant in the Finals guarding the likes of Iverson, Reggie Miller, Kerry Kittles, and Ray Allen did you? Clearly not, hence idiotic (1) statements like yours.

From 2008-09 to 2010-11, when Bryant was the ages of 30-32, the Lakers won 2 titles and were the 3rd best defensive team in the league (103.3 pts/100poss allowed), Bryant was named all-defensive 1st team all 3 seasons, only Laker named, was on the floor 72% of the time, most on the Lakers.

Yet you say Bryant was coasting on defense, didn't guard opposing stars. Idiotic (2).

why even come to a basketball discussion forum if you think all D awards are unquestionable dogma?

No one said they are unquestionable. But when a player is named all-defensive 1st team 9 times in his career, by NBA head coaches, and you say he was coasting on defense, that is idiotic statement (3).

Bryant was named to all-defensive 1st team 11 years apart (1999-00 and 2010-11), by two almost completely different sets of NBA head coaches, coaches that faced him 2-4 times a season, and game planned against him, watched film of him. That's impressive. And he was named all-defensive 1st team 7 more times in between those seasons.

Yet you make statements like this:

You cannot blindly trust voting awards, even those who are voted by coaches

Dismissing their opinions as to who the best defenders are as if you know better.

But you know what you don't do? Say who should have been name to the all-defensive team in his place.

You seem to think you know better than NBA head coaches but never show that you do. You just like to belittle their choices.

So here's your chance - every season you think Kobe Bryant should not have been named to the all-defensive 1st team tell us who should have been. And we can debate those choices.

We can call your choices silly just like you are calling those votes/opinions of NBA head coaches.

But you won't. You know why? Because you do not know the NBA. You just like being negative about the greats of the game as if you know better.

You want to belittle the voting of NBA head coaches. Fine. But tell us who you believe should have been voted in instead.

But - again - you won't. Because then we would really know how little you know of the NBA.

So let me get this straight

That straight enough for you?