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WuTang_CMB wrote:PushDaRock wrote:WuTang_CMB wrote:
You're not making much sense.
Raps are fishing to elevate their club. If you can get better, you do it.
That's an assumption on your part. Darko has been tempering expectations all year long unless you think ownership and FO isn't on the same page or he's just lying.
No assumption. Read the media. They going after it since they feel they can get these guys for cheap else they wouldn't be.
PushDaRock wrote:Clutch0z24 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:
definitely, when you have a chance to get Jermaine O'Neal, you have to do it!!!
Lol? Comparing either of these guys to Jermaine is foolish....Are you for some reason in love with IQ/Yak and think they elevate the Raptors now or in the future? and if so please explain because i am seriously curious why trading these guys for upgrades would make you this upset?
Do you enjoy being a middling team? or are you one of them fans that think its easy to land Giannis in a trade and IQ/Yak/RJ will land you Giannis in a trade?
Yes, I am. The thought of either leaving this team breaks my heart.
The dream is for us to be Hawks 2.0!!!
PushDaRock wrote:WuTang_CMB wrote:PushDaRock wrote:
That's an assumption on your part. Darko has been tempering expectations all year long unless you think ownership and FO isn't on the same page or he's just lying.
No assumption. Read the media. They going after it since they feel they can get these guys for cheap else they wouldn't be.
Oh, so he's a liar!!!
Clutch0z24 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:Clutch0z24 wrote:
Lol? Comparing either of these guys to Jermaine is foolish....Are you for some reason in love with IQ/Yak and think they elevate the Raptors now or in the future? and if so please explain because i am seriously curious why trading these guys for upgrades would make you this upset?
Do you enjoy being a middling team? or are you one of them fans that think its easy to land Giannis in a trade and IQ/Yak/RJ will land you Giannis in a trade?
Yes, I am. The thought of either leaving this team breaks my heart.
The dream is for us to be Hawks 2.0!!!
So you are just arguing with everyone just to argue? Whats the downside of moving off IQ or Yak? Do you think losing these two dramatically effect the future of the team? or if we lose these two the team will fall apart? Because Morant/AD either one is a big upgrade in talent over both players....Even at their lowest value they are still more talented than either player and its not really that close...
So you must have a reason for being so upset especially if the cost is so low and you do not even have to trade alot of draft picks to get it done?....
WuTang_CMB wrote:PushDaRock wrote:WuTang_CMB wrote:
No assumption. Read the media. They going after it since they feel they can get these guys for cheap else they wouldn't be.
Oh, so he's a liar!!!
No, you're just fried
PushDaRock wrote:Clutch0z24 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:
Yes, I am. The thought of either leaving this team breaks my heart.
The dream is for us to be Hawks 2.0!!!
So you are just arguing with everyone just to argue? Whats the downside of moving off IQ or Yak? Do you think losing these two dramatically effect the future of the team? or if we lose these two the team will fall apart? Because Morant/AD either one is a big upgrade in talent over both players....Even at their lowest value they are still more talented than either player and its not really that close...
So you must have a reason for being so upset especially if the cost is so low and you do not even have to trade alot of draft picks to get it done?....
Because it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game!!!
Clutch0z24 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:Clutch0z24 wrote:
So you are just arguing with everyone just to argue? Whats the downside of moving off IQ or Yak? Do you think losing these two dramatically effect the future of the team? or if we lose these two the team will fall apart? Because Morant/AD either one is a big upgrade in talent over both players....Even at their lowest value they are still more talented than either player and its not really that close...
So you must have a reason for being so upset especially if the cost is so low and you do not even have to trade alot of draft picks to get it done?....
Because it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game!!!
? So you are saying AD is not one of the best players when hes playing? You are more clueless than i thought?....I am convinced you only watch Raptors in the NBA and never watched much outside of it because if you think IQ/Yak are both better than Morant/AD....Idk what to tell you....
AD is obviously the much better talent overall but Ja is also much more talented than IQ/Yak and its not close....But AD is actually 50 tiers above all players mentioned....
PushDaRock wrote:Clutch0z24 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:
Because it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game!!!
? So you are saying AD is not one of the best players when hes playing? You are more clueless than i thought?....I am convinced you only watch Raptors in the NBA and never watched much outside of it because if you think IQ/Yak are both better than Morant/AD....Idk what to tell you....
AD is obviously the much better talent overall but Ja is also much more talented than IQ/Yak and its not close....But AD is actually 50 tiers above all players mentioned....
AD isn't 50 tiers better, maybe 47 tiers better but definitely not 50
Clutch0z24 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:Clutch0z24 wrote:
? So you are saying AD is not one of the best players when hes playing? You are more clueless than i thought?....I am convinced you only watch Raptors in the NBA and never watched much outside of it because if you think IQ/Yak are both better than Morant/AD....Idk what to tell you....
AD is obviously the much better talent overall but Ja is also much more talented than IQ/Yak and its not close....But AD is actually 50 tiers above all players mentioned....
AD isn't 50 tiers better, maybe 47 tiers better but definitely not 50
Right....So you would legit be upset if we traded fringe starters for a top 10 player who is a 10 time all star, All defensive, elite rim protector? That makes sense....Low basketball IQ you have...
TGM wrote:anotherhomer wrote:I don’t like the Ja or AD ideas, and I think comparing them to the BI move misses key differences.
1) BI fixed an obvious problem
The Raptors badly needed half-court scoring. BI directly addressed that.
What clear need do Ja or AD solve?
AD helps rim protection but doesn’t want to play center.
Ja adds rim pressure, but he can’t shoot, is bad defensively, injury-prone, and needs the ball constantly.
2) BI was a legit buy-low
Brown + Olynyk + protected 2026 FRP is reasonable value (Indiana likely never tanks without getting their pick back).
Ja or AD costs two of IQ/RJ/Jakob plus multiple FRPs. That’s not buy-low — that’s overpaying.
3) Fit and risk
BI fits Scottie and the roster. He scales.
Ja requires the offense to be built around him and brings durability and off-court risk.
AD forces awkward positional choices and accelerates the timeline without real contention upside. Plus he wants a big contract too
BI was a calculated swing. Ja or AD is a high-risk bet that doesn’t clearly solve the team’s core issues.
This is all hindsight talking. People hated the idea of BI and 90% people on this forum said the fit was poor, laid an egg over his contract and said he was injury prone and freaked that we gave up a first.
Ja and AD at their best are better talents than BI, so you are trading for more potential upside.
You are downplaying the offensive engine improvement Ja can bring or the defensive presence and interior scoring AD brings. You are focusing on what they can’t do as to what they can do.
There is a simple reason why people think these are bad deals. It’s because people are naturally risk averse. Just look at how player values can flip flop over a matter of months. Trae going for expiring. RJ for pop platter contract to no we shouldn’t trade RJ. Trade Scottie he is not a star. We’ve seen it all. Ja andAD’s trade value is low because of injuries and attitude as of late. If not they wouldn’t even be on the trade market. Their respective teams have taken a different direction on competing so that’s why you can get them below market value.
Imagine when Nets were trading for VC and they focused on he is more injury prone, doesn’t want to dunk anymore, low motor, isn’t a winner. Those were the attributes VC displayed in his final season with the Raps.
PushDaRock wrote:Clutch0z24 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:
AD isn't 50 tiers better, maybe 47 tiers better but definitely not 50
Right....So you would legit be upset if we traded fringe starters for a top 10 player who is a 10 time all star, All defensive, elite rim protector? That makes sense....Low basketball IQ you have...
Well yeah, obviously I have low basketball IQ, why else would I be on here?
TGM wrote:PushDaRock wrote:Clutch0z24 wrote:
Right....So you would legit be upset if we traded fringe starters for a top 10 player who is a 10 time all star, All defensive, elite rim protector? That makes sense....Low basketball IQ you have...
Well yeah, obviously I have low basketball IQ, why else would I be on here?
I think the question you need to weigh is what changes a year from now. Let’s say the Raps stay put and do a small deal to get under the tax.
We do not have additional cap space in the off season. RJ despite being a FA his salary size doesn’t get you a star back so you still need to add a IQ or Jakob in trades in the off season or next year. Those contracts will still be viewed relatively the same. Jak comes back great we keep him. Jak stays injured he is still hard to move. IQ is overpaid we just need to all agree on this regardless if his contract is flatlined. His ceiling is somewhat transparent and his positives and negatives people can see. So what you are banking on is a 2026 fist round pick and further internal growth. The way we are playing it will be a late teens early 20s pick. You can’t bank on that being your game changer that is a bigger lottery ticket. Internal growth we will see some, but our guys aren’t 20/21 most of them now have a few years in the NBA. Dick doesn’t morph into Austin Reaves. So we go from 49 win to 53 win team. We still get smoked in the playoffs by the top tier teams.
Now let’s look at the risky scenario you push the chips in for AD and Ja. AD’s contract expires next year so you have a 60 million contract to play with. If we need to give draft capital to get AD today, and you are saying the expiring are worth so much. AD should be able to get back that same type of draft capital if not maybe more next season. With Ja you are paying him more than IQ but one year shorter. Ja has been screwing the pooch as of late, but what he has shown in the past is beyond what IQ can do on his best nights. Let’s say Ja doesn’t really improve and continues to decline. Average Ja is not a big drop off from healthy IQ. However if you rehab Ja and he trends back up that will be a huge boost to the team. Now you have a Lauri Markanen scenario liability becoming an asset. Same logic applies for AD. Now let’s look at the cost. We are trying to use Iq, RJ and Jak a few guys like Dick and Ochai plus maybe 2 first round picks ( make them lottery protected). That to me is actually very little to give up. This is what we are getting in return if the above can actually happen:
1. Potential raised ceiling to a 60 win team.
2. Adding a 26 year old that was at one point the face of the league. Think VC 2.0
3. Ten time all star one of the best two way centers in the past. He is still putting up 20-10 on super efficient numbers when playing. JO was like 13 points - 6 rebounds when we got him. So not apples to apples.
4. If healthy this team can make it past the second round.
But let’s play pessimist and this flames out. Ja screws the dog harder and AD is injured.
1. We become a 40 win team instead. Maybe miss the play offs. We still get our lottery pick and pass over maybe a pick in a later year.
2. We will not extend AD and now have a 60 million expiring going into next season. It’s not like AD cannot play at all.
3. We have Ja and his value will be like Bradley Beal for 2 more seasons. But when his contract expires so does BI’s. So experiment failed.
Going down the do nothing path what you get is a 53 win team for the next two years. You got mediocre contracts locked up for 4 years till 2029/2030. You drafted two more guys in the teens of the first round. Your cap space is still toast. You cannot reset or pivot.
Going down the riskier path you have a chance at a 60 win team with chip aspirations or the downside of a 40 win team. You either get back some decent players or draft capital for AD and Ja by 2027/2028. Your cap sheet is clean as fack.
Which one would you pick.
Let’s not say we want LaMelo instead or Giannis. They cost totally something else and may not be available with the assets we have. Even if Giannis was available people will say price is too high and Giannis is too old.
Not attacking you bro, just laying out how things unfold.
TGM wrote:PushDaRock wrote:Clutch0z24 wrote:
Right....So you would legit be upset if we traded fringe starters for a top 10 player who is a 10 time all star, All defensive, elite rim protector? That makes sense....Low basketball IQ you have...
Well yeah, obviously I have low basketball IQ, why else would I be on here?
I think the question you need to weigh is what changes a year from now. Let’s say the Raps stay put and do a small deal to get under the tax.
We do not have additional cap space in the off season. RJ despite being a FA his salary size doesn’t get you a star back so you still need to add a IQ or Jakob in trades in the off season or next year. Those contracts will still be viewed relatively the same. Jak comes back great we keep him. Jak stays injured he is still hard to move. IQ is overpaid we just need to all agree on this regardless if his contract is flatlined. His ceiling is somewhat transparent and his positives and negatives people can see. So what you are banking on is a 2026 fist round pick and further internal growth. The way we are playing it will be a late teens early 20s pick. You can’t bank on that being your game changer that is a bigger lottery ticket. Internal growth we will see some, but our guys aren’t 20/21 most of them now have a few years in the NBA. Dick doesn’t morph into Austin Reaves. So we go from 49 win to 53 win team. We still get smoked in the playoffs by the top tier teams.
Now let’s look at the risky scenario you push the chips in for AD and Ja. AD’s contract expires next year so you have a 60 million contract to play with. If we need to give draft capital to get AD today, and you are saying the expiring are worth so much. AD should be able to get back that same type of draft capital if not maybe more next season. With Ja you are paying him more than IQ but one year shorter. Ja has been screwing the pooch as of late, but what he has shown in the past is beyond what IQ can do on his best nights. Let’s say Ja doesn’t really improve and continues to decline. Average Ja is not a big drop off from healthy IQ. However if you rehab Ja and he trends back up that will be a huge boost to the team. Now you have a Lauri Markanen scenario liability becoming an asset. Same logic applies for AD. Now let’s look at the cost. We are trying to use Iq, RJ and Jak a few guys like Dick and Ochai plus maybe 2 first round picks ( make them lottery protected). That to me is actually very little to give up. This is what we are getting in return if the above can actually happen:
1. Potential raised ceiling to a 60 win team.
2. Adding a 26 year old that was at one point the face of the league. Think VC 2.0
3. Ten time all star one of the best two way centers in the past. He is still putting up 20-10 on super efficient numbers when playing. JO was like 13 points - 6 rebounds when we got him. So not apples to apples.
4. If healthy this team can make it past the second round.
But let’s play pessimist and this flames out. Ja screws the dog harder and AD is injured.
1. We become a 40 win team instead. Maybe miss the play offs. We still get our lottery pick and pass over maybe a pick in a later year.
2. We will not extend AD and now have a 60 million expiring going into next season. It’s not like AD cannot play at all.
3. We have Ja and his value will be like Bradley Beal for 2 more seasons. But when his contract expires so does BI’s. So experiment failed.
Going down the do nothing path what you get is a 53 win team for the next two years. You got mediocre contracts locked up for 4 years till 2029/2030. You drafted two more guys in the teens of the first round. Your cap space is still toast. You cannot reset or pivot.
Going down the riskier path you have a chance at a 60 win team with chip aspirations or the downside of a 40 win team. You either get back some decent players or draft capital for AD and Ja by 2027/2028. Your cap sheet is clean as fack.
Which one would you pick.
Let’s not say we want LaMelo instead or Giannis. They cost totally something else and may not be available with the assets we have. Even if Giannis was available people will say price is too high and Giannis is too old.
Not attacking you bro, just laying out how things unfold.
tsherkin wrote:Johnston wrote:Id feel better of it was just attitude and not injuries as well. But Darko has spent a lot more time with him than you or I have. Id trust his judgement.
I don't. *shrug*
Clutch0z24 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:Clutch0z24 wrote:
? So you are saying AD is not one of the best players when hes playing? You are more clueless than i thought?....I am convinced you only watch Raptors in the NBA and never watched much outside of it because if you think IQ/Yak are both better than Morant/AD....Idk what to tell you....
AD is obviously the much better talent overall but Ja is also much more talented than IQ/Yak and its not close....But AD is actually 50 tiers above all players mentioned....
AD isn't 50 tiers better, maybe 47 tiers better but definitely not 50
Right....So you would legit be upset if we traded fringe starters for a top 10 player who is a 10 time all star, All defensive, elite rim protector? That makes sense....Low basketball IQ you have...