Paxson wants 30+ minutes a night for young guys?

[Magilla_Gorilla]

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so far, you have offered to have shams, dougs, and coldfish's babies. i think maybe duck's too. how many babies can you handle, gorilla?

And don't forget Tyrus.

[DuckIII]

TB, that "closers" speech spoof is hilarious.

[richard]

What does a duck and gorilla's baby look like exactly?

(picture)

do a fish, gorilla, and duck combo.

[coldfish]

I think the people wanting the Bulls to tank and / or expecting losses in regards to playing the young people will be sorely disappointed when they get to see the results of 30mpg of Noah.

Again, I have to put a spin on this, because in theory I agree, but at the heart of this I strongly disagree.

If we play Tyrus and Noah 30 min a night, and play our current system, we will lose, lose, lose. I really don't know if we would be good enough to over come their mistakes to win 25 games this year.

You are killing me Jay. I specifically said Noah. My post was about Noah. Noah, Noah, Noah, Noah, Noah.

If you want to argue the effectiveness and ability to execute the schemes between Noah and Wallace, I'm your huckleberry.

Let's start with this: Part of the current "system" is for players to make open layups and at least attempt high percentage shots when left one on one within 5 feet of the hoop with the ball. Who is going to do that better?

Or does it not matter if the ball goes in the hoop as long as the guy is in the right place?

I suspect that he was supposed to be fronting on defense Curry on Tuesday, but I don't have proof. The Bulls used to front post players. The team denied entry passes and forced tough jump shots. It was reported that Wallace didn't like fronting last December. Now, we allow the entry pass then double down and free up shooters. Think about that. Wallace's lack execution of the scheme may be the keystone for the defense's problems this year.

The end result is that Wallace makes a ton of mistakes. The other guy who would likely lose minutes is Nocioni at the 4 spot, who also is a scheme ruining wrecking ball. As I watch the games, he breaks out of the offense and defense more than the young guys.

Your assertion is based on the impression that the young guys would make so many mistakes, it would overwhelm their positives to make the team worse. What I see is that the guys most likely to lose minutes make a ton of mistakes too.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

AGF A, Always, G, Get, F, Floorburns. Always Get Floorburns. Always Get Floorburns. BWSR. Ben Wallace Screen Roll. Ben Wallace. I know it won

[kyrv]

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agree that Pax can't turn back the hands of time but he should learn how to evaluate the talent on this team, and balance out the roster more. He hasn't addressed our biggest needs at all(low post scorer, big 2 guard who can add some offense)Pax is still on the hot seat.

I don't agree that that has anything to do with playing the youngsters more. Completely separate topics.

The offense the Bulls run - relevant (to me).

Aldridge - not relevant.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

If you want to argue the effectiveness and ability to execute the schemes between Noah and Wallace, I'm your huckleberry.

You're a daisy if you do...


Single greatest line in the history of Kurt Russell/Val Kilmer movies. I have a friend who has spent years trying to convince us that "Wyatt Earp" starring Kevin Costner was the better movie.

Needless to say we all think he might be mentally (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

[DuckIII]

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TB - that whole thing was brilliant, but the Ben W part was my favorite...

That was the best part. But I also liked this one:

I can go out there tonight,in uniform and drop 8/4/10. Tonight. In 48 minutes.

[bre9]

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I don't agree that that has anything to do with playing the youngsters more. Completely separate topics.

The offense the Bulls run - relevant (to me).

Aldridge - not relevant.

I really do hope the bulls let the youngins play. So whe see them develop into good nba players.

Aldridge is relevant to me and every nba analysts and bulls experts. it has been several articles about Aldridge vs. Tyrus. Every time the bulls play Portland the Key matchup is Aldridge vs. Tyrus - go figure.

Truth is Pax made a couple mistakes.

[DuckIII]

You're a daisy if you do...


Single greatest line in the history of Kurt Russell/Val Kilmer movies. I have a friend who has spent years trying to convince us that "Wyatt Earp" starring Kevin Costner was the better movie.

Needless to say we all think he might be mentally (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

That would be grounds for terminating a friendship.

Pretty much every line he has in the movie is gold. Even some of the forgotten ones:

Why, Ed Baily, are we cross? Because if I didn't think we were friends, Ed, I just don't think I could bear it.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Wyatt Earp is my friend.

Hell, I got lot's of friends.

I don't.

[BULLHITTER]

agree that Pax can't turn back the hands of time but he should learn how to evaluate the talent on this team, and balance out the roster more. He hasn't addressed our biggest needs at all(low post scorer, big 2 guard who can add some offense)Pax is still on the hot seat.

players not getting minutes is an indictment of his ability to evaluate? not sure i'm seeing this. outside of the gamble on thomas, he's pretty much taken the bpa at his pick. i'd be interested in hearing the "stars" or better fits that he's mis-evaluated. i'll even grant you that he might have mis-evaluated roy; though with skiles at the helm, i'm not guaranteeing anything.

Aldridge is relevant to me and every nba analysts and bulls experts. it has been several articles about Aldridge vs. Tyrus. Every time the bulls play Portland the Key matchup is Aldridge vs. Tyrus - go figure.

Truth is Pax made a couple mistakes.

what have they played twice over two seasons? wow.....they'll only play against one another twice for their entire careers unless one is shipped west; OR if portland becomes a dominant team in the west.......

ok; paxson's not infallible, take your pick of the gm's who haven't made a "mistake". that doesn't put him on the hot seat......and for the record, aldridge having more success after 2 years while thomas is still developing doesn't constitute a mistake. also, media hype is the only reason to bring up a thomas/aldridge, just like okafor/howard, oden/durant; it doesn't mean anything other than to raise debate.

[kyrv]

Well put bullhitter, another example is Atlanta. I believe they passed on both Paul and Williams in taking Marvin Williams. Should they not develop him because of that? Develop him differently? I don't see why. Draft is done, you worry about who is actually on the team.

Again maybe Tyrus Thomas sucks. I would rather we see that for ourselves than just imagine it.

[DuckIII]

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Doc: We started a game we never forgot to finish. "Play for blood", remember?

Ringo: Oh, I was just foolin' about.

Doc: I wasn't.

Okay, thats enough I could basically just list every word of his lines as one big quote since not of his dialogue is wasted.

[bre9]

agree that Pax can't turn back the hands of time but he should learn how to evaluate the talent on this team, and balance out the roster more. He hasn't addressed our biggest needs at all(low post scorer, big 2 guard who can add some offense)Pax is still on the hot seat.

players not getting minutes is an indictment of his ability to evaluate? not sure i'm seeing this. outside of the gamble on thomas, he's pretty much taken the bpa at his pick. i'd be interested in hearing the "stars" or better fits that he's mis-evaluated. i'll even grant you that he might have mis-evaluated roy; though with skiles at the helm, i'm not guaranteeing anything.

Aldridge is relevant to me and every nba analysts and bulls experts. it has been several articles about Aldridge vs. Tyrus. Every time the bulls play Portland the Key matchup is Aldridge vs. Tyrus - go figure.

Truth is Pax made a couple mistakes.

what have they played twice over two seasons? wow.....they'll only play against one another twice for their entire careers unless one is shipped west; OR if portland becomes a dominant team in the west.......

ok; paxson's not infallible, take your pick of the gm's who haven't made a "mistake". that doesn't put him on the hot seat......and for the record, aldridge having more success after 2 years while thomas is still developing doesn't constitute a mistake. also, media hype is the only reason to bring up a thomas/aldridge, just like okafor/howard, oden/durant; it doesn't mean anything other than to raise debate.

Paxson has screwed this team come on now people need to see this the guy haven't made any trades to help us, his draft picks our letting him down. Plus Skiles screwed him with this roster of defense and hustle players plus Skiles persuade him too sign Ben Wallace and he has done nothing but regressed now Skiles is gone and left Pax with this mess. Now are two top scorers might leave after this dissapointing season because of Bulls cheap mangement. Every one Knows Pax is in the hot seat. I'm not going to even argue with the Tyrus vs. Aldridge thing, Aldridge has already won.

[BULLHITTER]

Again maybe Tyrus Thomas sucks. I would rather we see that for ourselves than just imagine it.

apparently, some fans can see it from his spot on the bench.....

[BULLHITTER]

Paxson has screwed this team come on now people need to see this the guy haven't made any trades to help us,

so you've advocated letting deng and gordon or hinrich plus picks and filler go for gasol?

OR half the roster for kobe?

OR.......which trades do we know he passed on that would've made the bulls better?

his draft picks our letting him down

you mean the ones that you're favoring over letting some of the younger talent play?

Plus Skiles screwed him with this roster of defense and hustle players plus Skiles persuade him too sign Ben Wallace and he has done nothing but regressed now Skiles is gone and left Pax with this mess.

skiles alienated the players; that's what the record is stating. please illustrate where skiles "persuaded" paxson to sign wallace. if memory serves me correctly, it was an organizational choice. rightly or wrongly, paxson was banking on his draft picks to perform better and as such wallace's play would complement them, NOT the other way around.

Now are two top scorers might leave after this dissapointing season because of Bulls cheap mangement

.

the same cheap managment that gave jordan 33 mil?

Every one Knows Pax is in the hot seat.

haven't read that anywhere, and outside of the half dozen or so disgruntled posters floating around in cyberspace, the 21,000 or so at the UC might not agree.....

I'm not going to even argue with the Tyrus vs. Aldridge thing, Aldridge has already won.

well then, let's just get his HOF bust ready then......oh wait, he's still got to make all-star status, or player of the month, or player of the week......or something other than decent stats by default since portland's been able to just give him minutes, minutes he wouldn't have been granted in chicago.

[SensiBull]

Again, I have to put a spin on this, because in theory I agree, but at the heart of this I strongly disagree.

If we play Tyrus and Noah 30 min a night, and play our current system, we will lose, lose, lose. I really don't know if we would be good enough to over come their mistakes to win 25 games this year.

HOWEVER.

If we actually ran a system that would high light their strengths, and play a game that doesn't put us in position to have to shoot very well to create space and spread the floor, then we can win more games.

BUT.

We would win more games playing this system with Joe Smith and Ben Wallace.

I just strongly believe we have the wrong types, sizes, and ablity of players to run the system that we do.

So, in a way I agree, but in another way I couldn't disagree more.

However, I believe this would be good. I think there is a reason that the Heat are losing. This is a key draft. If they can score a good player, then they can expect to keep Wade around longer. If they squeek into the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed, then it is just another year of not being able to add talent around Wade.

Finally, someone with enough balls to address the faults of the entire system, rather than just look at players like individual trading cards and doing the "Fantasy Fan Two Step"

Step 1 - Ask, "Who should Paxson have drafted that he didn't?"
Step 2 - Rip as many of those players apart as you can manage to get away with


I just saw someone name LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy and Ronnie Brewer as names player Paxson passed on and, oddly, the only player who was even addressed, after that, was Ronnie Brewer, with some 'weak tea' answer like "I hear they're losing favor with him [Brewer] in Utah," with no mention of Aldridge, Roy, or the validity of the point, at all.

You'd think the guy was a paid representative of Paxson.

Can you say "evading the point"?

The poster who named these players was making the point that Paxson has often opted for defensive players with questionable offense to the detriment of the team. I don't know how you can look at Tyrus Thomas and Ben Wallace (our highest draft pick and biggest free agent signing, respectively, in the entire rebuilding - save Elton Brand) and not be prepared to acknowledge ANY of that point.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Paxson has screwed this team come on now people need to see this the guy haven't made any trades to help us,

It takes two to tango. From everything I read, Pax made an excellent offer for KG. Memphis tried to sexually molest us for Pau, and Kobe vetoed our offer for him.

his draft picks our letting him down.

Aside from Thomas - which Draft pick is a disappointment (and to clarify, I don't think TT is a disappointment but I am guessing you do)?

Plus Skiles screwed him with this roster of defense and hustle players

When stars aren't available - who do you suggest we sign? I'll take defense and hustle if the other option is nothing.

plus Skiles persuade him too sign Ben Wallace and he has done nothing but regressed

Wallace signing was a mistake - no doubt - but we have no idea if that was Skiles, Pax, or Reinsdorf. Ultimately though, Pax is the GM, and its his head.

now Skiles is gone and left Pax with this mess.

I think most here are glad he is gone, and don't forget - Pax is the one that fired him. Skiles didn't quit.

Now are two top scorers might leave after this dissapointing season because of Bulls cheap mangement.

If the reports of what the Bulls offered is true - they should have signed the deal. They're proving this year that they aren't worth what they were offered.

Every one Knows Pax is in the hot seat.

He probably isn't. I don't see Reinsdorf firing him any time soon.

I'm not going to even argue with the Tyrus vs. Aldridge thing, Aldridge has already won.

Thats ridiculous.





*Damn you BULLHITTER and your fast fingers...

[SensiBull]

We agree but bringing up Paxson is relevant in this topic.

how so? it's not like he can turn back the hands of time and bring the players of your choice in.

moves made at the time are made (we hope) with the proper amount of analysis, workouts, college info, etc.;

after the fact when the brewers, aldridge's etc. playing situations differ from those in chicago, it's real easy to say shoulda, coulda, woulda; fact is and remains the only player paxson could've taken that would be playing is probably roy, because like brewer, there'd be little obstacles in the way of playing time for him. although, it's questionable with how thabo's been handled if that's even a given.

Okay. Some progress here. So, now we're prepared to admit that player environment can affect player performance, not just meaning that players who seem to have turned out well on their current teams might have struggled in our system, which is the point you make above, but, I hope you understand that the door swings both ways.

It could also be that players who seem to be struggling with their current teams might succeed here, if we adjust our system to suit them, and that goes for current Bulls players too.

So, the premise that the only players that John Paxson "should have" traded for are ones who are currently statistically superior to our own is based on a FALSE PREMISE.

There are pleny of quality 3/4's around the league who might seem great now, but would struggle with us just because we don't have the minutes to let them show/develop their games. Meanwhile, because we've had such a glaring need at Center and at SG, sometimes you might find that a player stuck on the bench behind a Tyson Chandler or Dwight Howard, a Kobe Bryant or a Michael Redd, is a quality young player who might thrive in a system not designed around the strengths of the OTHER player ahead of him on the depth chart (i.e. Arvydas Sabonis/Jermaine O'Neal).