What do the Kings Management Expect to get for Artest...

[Ballings7]

Despite George blocking the trade, they still have other players they can put into the deal to replace George (not including EJ). Just because Devean George has blocked it, doesn't mean Dallas is going to just sit down now.

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I think the Mavs are set now, but if they did go after Artest now, it'd cost them Howard, I doubt they'd be willing to part with him, but Howard could easily pry Artest away in some capacity. And honestly, an Artest/Howard swap would give the Mavs more of what they REALLY need(shut down wing defender and a low-post threat).

Yeah, they wouldn't do it, though.

Except in the NBA, all it takes is one GREAT player to make a team good (see Jordan/Kobe).

Is this under the implication that the other necessary ingredients are present on the team? Because it can't just be any team.

You can have an AWESOME pitching staff in MLB, but without any runs...you're ****.

And with a lot of runs, and just ordinary pitching and fielding - you're also not too great off, on-field-wise. Business-wise, you're good.

You need a balance.

[Piranha]

Let's see if I can extend this thread another 100 posts.

Let's play pretend for a bit...

1. Let's pretend no teams will agree to take on the Kenny Thomas contract as part of a deal, since I highly doubt that will happen in today's cap sensitive era.

2. Let's pretend that any Artest trade would only involve 2 teams... the Kings and whoever he gets traded to.


Ok... with those 2 conditions intact... let's take a look at what teams are contenders:

In the West... there are 10 teams:

New Orleans
Dallas
San Antonio
Houston

Utah
Denver
Portland

Phoenix
Lakers
Golden State

In the East... there are 6 teams (in my opinion)

Boston
Toronto

Detroit
Cleveland

Orlando
Washington

If you see any other teams as possibilities for him to be traded to during this season... feel free to add them in, but I'd like some rationale.

Now... of those 16 teams... what teams realistically CAN NOT trade for Artest due to their existing contract situations and composition of their teams?

Teams that can't pull off a deal are:

Boston
Dallas (assuming some version of the Kidd trade goes through eventually)
Lakers (they're not gonna deal Odom now despite what some may say and there's not enough cap elsewhere)
New Orleans
Phoenix
Utah
Washington

If you disagree on any of those, please explain why. Maybe I'm unclear of the contract situation of some of the players on those teams or on what the Kings are looking for.

That leaves 9 teams available to pursue Artest:

In the East:
Orlando
Toronto
Detroit
Cleveland

In the West:
San Antonio
Houston
Denver
Portland
Golden State

I'd like to see some proposed trades involving the Kings and one of these 9 teams. I've seen the Denver trade proposals involving Kleiza or Nene, and they make some sense... but that's about it. I doubt there's going to be some type of crazy 3 team deal with a 3rd team facilitating the trade (like a Rasheed Wallace deal). Most of the proposals I've seen on the trade board are of that variety.

I'd like to see deals with justification (other than the Denver deals) involving one of these teams.

Ok... 1, 2, 3.... GO!

[SacTown Kings]

Well I don't think a 3 way deal is out of the question, in fact I think if something does go down it will be a 3 way. But anyways I wouldn't mind seeing a deal involving G.S. where we get Wright. Or a deal involving Houston where we get there #1 (I doubt they make the playoffs).

[Smills91]

Phoenix could easily land artest, they have the TPE from the Kurt Thomas deal and an Atl pick...that's VERY good starting point.

[deNIEd]

Phoenix could easily land artest, they have the TPE from the Kurt Thomas deal and an Atl pick...that's VERY good starting point.

What else CAN they add?

They just can't take on Thomas or Shareef's contract, that wouldn't be an option at all.

Tucker or Strawberry? TPE can't be combined with a player, so we would need to send them a player in order to get either one, and no one on the kings is worth that.

TPE + Atl 1st is the only option for Artest for the Suns

[dc]

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What else CAN they add?

They just can't take on Thomas or Shareef's contract, that wouldn't be an option at all.

Tucker or Strawberry? TPE can't be combined with a player, so we would need to send them a player in order to get either one, and no one on the kings is worth that.

TPE + Atl 1st is the only option for Artest for the Suns

You can combine the TPE with a player. You just can't combine the TPE with a player to take on a salary that's greater than the TPE. Since the TPE created through the Kurt Thomas trade is greater than Artest's salary this year, you can technically do a trade involving a player and the TPE for Artest.

That being said, Phx can't do a deal that takes in more salary than they give out because it would push them into the tax for this season. The reason they gave away Thomas (and 2 picks) to the Sonics is because they wanted to avoid the luxury tax for this season.

And (re: a couple posts above) the Warriors aren't trading Wright for Artest. They're not trading Wright to either rent Artest for 3 months or to give Artest an extension that would put them in luxury tax territory next year. That's simply not going to happen.

You need to take into consideration the financial aspects of both the Kings and the other team when considering the possibilities. It's an issue that's going to be every bit as big anything basketball related when it comes to dictating the outcome of Artest's potential destination.

[Ballings7]

Well said, Dee See.

[deNIEd]

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You can combine the TPE with a player. You just can't combine the TPE with a player to take on a salary that's greater than the TPE. Since the TPE created through the Kurt Thomas trade is greater than Artest's salary this year, you can technically do a trade involving a player and the TPE for Artest.

That being said, Phx can't do a deal that takes in more salary than they give out because it would push them into the tax for this season. The reason they gave away Thomas (and 2 picks) to the Sonics is because they wanted to avoid the luxury tax for this season.

And (re: a couple posts above) the Warriors aren't trading Wright for Artest. They're not trading Wright to either rent Artest for 3 months or to give Artest an extension that would put them in luxury tax territory next year. That's simply not going to happen.

You need to take into consideration the financial aspects of both the Kings and the other team when considering the possibilities. It's an issue that's going to be every bit as big anything basketball related when it comes to dictating the outcome of Artest's potential destination.

Thanks for the info on the TPE, never knew that.
But regardless, what you said is right now,

There are only a few players that can take on Artest among the few that are willing to take on Artest.

Same goes for Bibby and Miller.

Its looking more and more like, Petrie has been playing hardball, won't budge at all, and because of that, all the other players folded, leaving the Kings with nothing.


I think it all matters on what Petrie plans on doing with Artest. If he is hoping to resign him or s&t him over the summer, then hold onto Artest. If not, If he only plans to let Artest go as soon as he opts out, then at the last second before the deadline, make ANY move to get Artest away from the Kings as long as expirings + any small incentive come back.

If Artest is not part of the King's long term plan, he only hurts us by being here, in the since that him along, KILLS our draft pick. You can't say "oh denied, you just want to rebuild through the draft, you have to rebuild through trades and free agency" If you are going to let Artest walk, getting a late 1st, or a 2nd, is better than nothing.

.00000001>0

And to rebuild, you always do the move that helps your team the most.

[pillwenney]

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You can combine the TPE with a player. You just can't combine the TPE with a player to take on a salary that's greater than the TPE. Since the TPE created through the Kurt Thomas trade is greater than Artest's salary this year, you can technically do a trade involving a player and the TPE for Artest.

That being said, Phx can't do a deal that takes in more salary than they give out because it would push them into the tax for this season. The reason they gave away Thomas (and 2 picks) to the Sonics is because they wanted to avoid the luxury tax for this season.

And (re: a couple posts above) the Warriors aren't trading Wright for Artest. They're not trading Wright to either rent Artest for 3 months or to give Artest an extension that would put them in luxury tax territory next year. That's simply not going to happen.

You need to take into consideration the financial aspects of both the Kings and the other team when considering the possibilities. It's an issue that's going to be every bit as big anything basketball related when it comes to dictating the outcome of Artest's potential destination.

Thanks for the info on the TPE, never knew that.
But regardless, what you said is right now,

There are only a few players that can take on Artest among the few that are willing to take on Artest.

Same goes for Bibby and Miller.

Its looking more and more like, Petrie has been playing hardball, won't budge at all, and because of that, all the other players folded, leaving the Kings with nothing.


I think it all matters on what Petrie plans on doing with Artest. If he is hoping to resign him or s&t him over the summer, then hold onto Artest. If not, If he only plans to let Artest go as soon as he opts out, then at the last second before the deadline, make ANY move to get Artest away from the Kings as long as expirings + any small incentive come back.

If Artest is not part of the King's long term plan, he only hurts us by being here, in the since that him along, KILLS our draft pick. You can't say "oh denied, you just want to rebuild through the draft, you have to rebuild through trades and free agency" If you are going to let Artest walk, getting a late 1st, or a 2nd, is better than nothing.

.00000001>0

And to rebuild, you always do the move that helps your team the most.

Petrie should be playing hardball. It's not the end of the world if we don't get some late 1st that will be a future 8th man. We can get that later if we need to. So trading Ron for a crappy package because we settled isn't the right thing to do IMO.

The fact of the matter is that if you go in with the attitude that you will trade him regardless, then teams will just wait until you give in. We have the leverage here, and we should keep it by playing hardball.

And no it doesn't "kill our draft pick". The absolute worst pick we could get at this point would be 14, and honestly, what's the best? Would trading Ron really put us down with the crappy eastern teams? I doubt it. And the fact of the matter is that if you're not going to get a franchise player (chances are we won't) it's really not a very big deal.

[Smills91]

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Petrie should be playing hardball. It's not the end of the world if we don't get some late 1st that will be a future 8th man. We can get that later if we need to. So trading Ron for a crappy package because we settled isn't the right thing to do IMO.

The fact of the matter is that if you go in with the attitude that you will trade him regardless, then teams will just wait until you give in. We have the leverage here, and we should keep it by playing hardball.

And no it doesn't "kill our draft pick". The absolute worst pick we could get at this point would be 14, and honestly, what's the best? Would trading Ron really put us down with the crappy eastern teams? I doubt it. And the fact of the matter is that if you're not going to get a franchise player (chances are we won't) it's really not a very big deal.

Amen, brother, preach on.

[TunaFish]

How exactly does Petrie play hardball? Does he play hardball by taking no deal and then letting Artest walk at the end of the season? If Petrie really is the GM genius that some of you think, then he needs to get something out of this situation by the trade deadline. This is a real test of his skill as a GM and a lesson for the rest of the league as well. If he gets nothing by the trade deadline and Artest walks then he is not much of a genius, we have some other GM's in the league that could do that.

[Smills91]

How exactly does Petrie play hardball? Does he play hardball by taking no deal and then evaluating the Artest situation later on and determining the best avenue to follow.

Fixed.
One thing's for certain, in ANY situation or route Petrie plans to take, the Kings will GET SOMETHING.

[artest4gov8]

big ben/TY for KT/artest

[dc]

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Fixed.

It's certainly possible that if he can't find anything he likes at the trade deadline, Petrie will wait until the offseason for a sign and trade and work something out with a team like the Knicks. That's something I've always thought would happen.

But that presents it's own difficulties.

If Petrie makes a trade before the deadline, he could theoretically get back a draft pick along with expiring contracts in return that wouldn't be on the payroll next year. That's something the Maloofs want to see.

But he waits until the offseason to workout a sign and trade, a scenario like that is far less likely. Unless he can find a team under the cap to work with (either directly or in a 3 way), there is no way he can do a trade without taking salary back for the 08/09' season because other teams can't trade you an expiring contract that's already expired. That's something he and the Maloofs would want to avoid.

If he waits until the offseason for a sign and trade, he's limiting himself entirely to deals that involve a team under the cap that's willing to absorb extra salary. That is, of course, unless the Maloofs are willing to pay the luxury tax.

[Smills91]

[quote="dc"][/quote]

So what's more limiting? Waiting for a SnT this summer? Or dealing Ron off for some half-ass package?

My opinion the LATTER. Ron's value doesn't get lower in this amount of time(4 months).

[dc]

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So what's more limiting? Waiting for a SnT this summer? Or dealing Ron off for some half-ass package?

My opinion the LATTER. Ron's value doesn't get lower in this amount of time(4 months).

Again, the limitations I'm talking about are on the financial side of things, and finances are going to dictate the outcome of this every bit as much as the basketball aspect.

If you're looking for a deal that gets you an asset while also not having to add payroll for the 08-09', you may very well have more options right now than during the summer simply because right now somebody can trade you an expiring contract. In the summer, nobody can trade you a contract that's already expired after the season ends.

You can wait for a SnT this summer, sure. Will there be teams interested by then just as teams are interested now? Sure. Will Ron still have value? Of course.

Point is, it becomes trickier to do in the summer than it would be now. The Kings can't simply deal straight up with a team like the Knicks (for example), because the Knicks would have to send back equal salary for 08'-09', which would make the Kings pay the luxury tax.

They could deal straight up with a team far enough under the cap for a draft pick or cheap prospect that doesn't need to send back equal salary, but that would assume said team wants to spend both its cap space AND an asset on Artest. The other option is a 3 way deal involving a team under the cap.

Everything I just wrote is totally meaningless if the Maloofs are willing to pay the tax. Again, this is going to be a financially driven decision, and right now there are indeed more options to clear off the finances for 08'-09'.

[dc]

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Just as an aside, if this Bibby to the Hawks for Shelden Williams and a bunch of expiring deals is for real, then that could clear some salary space and give Petrie some more wiggle room to do a S&T with Artest during the summer.

[Ballings7]

For any of that Suns/Artest talk (which lacks credibility, and doubtful at best to happen, for me), that Hawks pick will be even less valuable now. An average asset.

It's dipped in value as the Hawks have gotten noticably better since 2006. And now even moreso this season, and, with the Bibby trade.

[Ballings7]

Heh... as I've said a few times recently - "things can definitely change with Ron".

Artest told ESPN.com on Saturday that he's no longer lobbying for a move before Thursday's trading deadline.

"I am anxious to see what my future holds, [but] I like Sac," Artest wrote in an e-mail. "My entire focus is with Sac and winning a championship this year."

Earlier this month, Artest said repeatedly that the Kings "would be better if I wasn't on the team." But he's backed off those comments, which apparently stem from Artest's concern that Sacramento isn't interested in keeping him beyond this season.

*snip*

The Kings might have other motivations to keep him around. Artest has been playing maybe his best ball as a King since those comments about leaving, with first-year coach Reggie Theus praising Artest's increased willingness to share the ball and his all-around team play in making the claim this week that "Ron is our go-to guy."

As for Bibby's departure, Artest has always tried to convince the skeptics that he and Bibby were closer than outsiders believe. He tried again Saturday to dispel the notion that there was friction between the two, insisting that they often worked out together away from the practice floor and spent time with each other's children.

"Bibby treated me like family," Artest said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3249812

*shrug*

I still sway to him not being traded. Simply something serious has to come up first. In initation, and development, of a proposed deal.

[Ballings7]

Why not try to deal Moore with Ron? As the 2nd option behind Kenny to package with Ron.

In the case of a Ron/KT package not being accepted, wouldn't putting Moore instead make things easier and still good overall? Unload a multi-year deal, a veteran, and of course Ron.

All depends on what the offer from the other team, though. Can't be a mediocre or poor deal for us. Some significant value has to be in there.