The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2)

Rasho_libre · Post #1021 » by **Rasho_libre** » Sat May 11, 2013 3:47 am

Again if you see the way the bulls are defending him there is nothing lebron can because the defense shifts on him on every play. Thib has a game plan and hes sticking to it. Lebron had to get the shot back. That clutch theee at the end was as open hes been all series and he was 5 feet behind the arc. Since he has been defended like this The rest of miami needs to start moving. Cole and bosh figured it out tonight. Wade tried but he isnt mentally in it, chalmers is a wreck almost cost then the game

SideshowBob · Post #1022 » by **SideshowBob** » Sat May 11, 2013 3:48 am

mopper8 wrote:
toodles23 wrote:Lebron's effort was fine tonight, he just couldn't make a jumper. Nobody would be saying anything about effort if 3 more jumpers went down.

I agree. Plus the way the Bulls played him opened things up big time for other guys, even when it wasn't Lebron making an assist pass. Just for example, that big Cole layup at the end was created because Butler basically just stuck with Leborn while he screened Robinson, creating a huge lane for Cole. Boozer's help was late, but if it had been on time that's an easy dump off for a wideopen Bosh. That play is created because defender wouldn't leave Lebron to even hedge on Cole

Precisely, which is why Miami's offense was rolling all night long. If Lebron tried to force the issue, especially with his jumper off like it was, its likely that Miami's overall offensive performance is LESS efficient than it was. If he's not on the floor, Miami's offense doesn't flow nearly as well as it was able to, because there's no "neutron star" to suck in all the defensive attention (Cole, Chalmers, and Bosh in particular were getting open lanes all night). I didn't see this as a bad game from him at all. Significantly better than Game 1, slight step down from game 2 (defensive activity level in the first half wasn't where it needed to be, but he was on in the 2nd half). The 2011 Finals comparisons make no sense.

Dupp · Post #1023 » by **Dupp** » Sat May 11, 2013 3:49 am

Lebron was active and showed effort but the way the game unfolded in the first 3 it reminded me so much of 2010 vs boston. The further his jumper was off the further he got disengaged from the rest of the contest. Looked like his confidence really effected the rest of his game. Started standing around the 3 point line, deep. Missed some defensive plays, easy jump shots were way off. Just went into a really un aggressive mode.

Particularly the 3rd quarter. To his credit he turned it around in the fourth but i thought it was as bad as ive seen him look in a long time. Body language, confidence etc.

Rasho_libre · Post #1024 » by **Rasho_libre** » Sat May 11, 2013 6:15 am

Dupp wrote:Lebron was active and showed effort but the way the game unfolded in the first 3 it reminded me so much of 2010 vs boston. The further his jumper was off the further he got disengaged from the rest of the contest. Looked like his confidence really effected the rest of his game. Started standing around the 3 point line, deep. Missed some defensive plays, easy jump shots were way off. Just went into a really un aggressive mode.

Particularly the 3rd quarter. To his credit he turned it around in the fourth but i thought it was as bad as ive seen him look in a long time. Body language, confidence etc.

I don't know what game you were watching. Only cole out of the perimeter players took advantage of the wide open lanes because of the attention Lebron was getting. They were shifting the defense before he even got the ball. Nazr fouled him on a fast break even though there were 4 bulls defenders back to stop a momentum changing dunk. They are worried as hell about Lebron like I've never seen a team before, they obv believe the only way to win is stopping Lebron and forcing guys to make plays. Thank god Norris cole isn't a pudgy whiny bastard like chalmers. The dude was getting visibly chewed out by bosh.

In the mavs series, he wasnt even tying to make plays it seemed. Right now he is trying to move the ball and not hold it. That plays straight into what Chicago wants. Body language confidence wise, I never questioned I knew he would turn it on when he could and when they needed it and he did. Problem is thibs adjust hardcore like no other coaches. On that three Lebron made in the fourth. The next play thibs did a full out trap to force Lebron to not take his Normal heat check three. What did Lebron do, he stopped read the adjustment moved the ball which iced the game with a cole three.

therealbig3 · Post #1025 » by **therealbig3** » Sat May 11, 2013 7:27 am

I'll be honest, I didn't watch this game, but up until now, I feel as if LeBron has sleepwalked through the entire playoffs so far. There's a noticeable passiveness in his game.

And he's still putting up 24/7/7 on insane efficiency. If the Knicks and Heat matchup in the CF, I can't wait to see what he does against their tissue paper defense. Aggression won't be a problem for him in that series.

Ziggy Stardust · Post #1026 » by **Ziggy Stardust** » Sat May 11, 2013 3:18 pm

I don't think Lebron has played bad or even passive so far. I just think people hear this talk about him playing at some sort of peak Shaq or Jordan level, when he's actually many levels below that.

PCProductions · Post #1027 » by **PCProductions** » Sat May 11, 2013 8:32 pm

Jesus the overreaction from last game is out of control. He looked mildly disengaged at best and his jumpers didn't fall and people are acting like he quit on his team. Gimme a break.

They won the game, too. If this was a loss then that would be another story. But Miami took a big game in Chicago's homecoming effort. This whole "he's no Shaq/Jordan" nonsense needs to stop. They're 6-1 this postseason with incredible offensive AND defensive rating with Lebron on the court, which is all that matters.

RayBan-Sematra · Post #1028 » by **RayBan-Sematra** » Sat May 11, 2013 9:09 pm

I am not one of the ones who said he lacked effort (he played hard) but he just seemed out of synch and he was relatively unproductive in the first 3 quarters.

Teams at times can still force Lebron to struggle offensively in a half court setting as the Bulls showed prior to the 4th Q in the last game.

Plus despite his little flareup at the end he didn't score any points in the 4th Q before that clutch 3 when they had the lead at the very end.

So yeah his overall stat-line ended up pretty nice but he didn't hold a very strong presence over the game the way he often does, he seemed out of synch and he wasn't very dominant.

Obviously the Heat still won so it is hard to be overly critical of him but he didn't play close to the standard of play people are saying we should expect from him.

colts18 · Post #1029 » by **colts18** » Sat May 11, 2013 9:22 pm

LeBron's plus/minus for the playoffs is actually minus right now.

JulesWinnfield · Post #1030 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Sat May 11, 2013 9:28 pm

PCProductions wrote:Jesus the overreaction from last game is out of control. He looked mildly disengaged at best and his jumpers didn't fall and people are acting like he quit on his team. Gimme a break.

They won the game, too. If this was a loss then that would be another story. But Miami took a big game in Chicago's homecoming effort. This whole "he's no Shaq/Jordan" nonsense needs to stop. They're 6-1 this postseason with incredible offensive AND defensive rating with Lebron on the court, which is all that matters.

Pretty much this. It's rare to see him shoot as poorly as he did last night, but I can't get most of the sentiment in this thread

also time seems to sand away all blemishes. Actual Jordan wouldn't have held up to the Jordan Legend. MJ didn't navigate through every postseason without off-games. I lived through a bunch of them. Lebron hasn't had his true breakout performance yet in these playoffs yet he's still posted a higher PER than half of MJ's title runs. This is not to turn this into an MJ-LeBron thing, rather to just make the point that the expectations are absurd right now. It's his consistent dominance that has set the bar that high though

GSP · Post #1031 » by **GSP** » Sat May 11, 2013 9:36 pm

colts18 wrote:LeBron's plus/minus for the playoffs is actually minus right now.

Wasnt shaqs in 01 minus too? That doesnt matter this miami team is really good even without Lebron they wont have their team numbers close without him

Tim_Hardawayy · Post #1032 » by **Tim_Hardawayy** » Sat May 11, 2013 10:01 pm

The thing I didn't like about the last game was how long he held the ball for. He must be quicker with his decision making if the offense is going to run smoothly.

Ziggy Stardust · Post #1033 » by **Ziggy Stardust** » Sat May 11, 2013 11:34 pm

PCProductions wrote:Jesus the overreaction from last game is out of control. He looked mildly disengaged at best and his jumpers didn't fall and people are acting like he quit on his team. Gimme a break.

They won the game, too. If this was a loss then that would be another story. But Miami took a big game in Chicago's homecoming effort. This whole "he's no Shaq/Jordan" nonsense needs to stop. They're 6-1 this postseason with incredible offensive AND defensive rating with Lebron on the court, which is all that matters.

You know someone is ridiculously overhyped/overrated when someone makes a statement like that. Like it's ridiculous that people say he's no peak Jordan/Shaq.

I don't blame Lebron. I blame the espn hype machine and overzealous fans, because he's clearly not anywhere near that level.

poopdamoop · Post #1034 » by **poopdamoop** » Sun May 12, 2013 2:59 am

MJ put up the following games against the Knicks in 1993, IN ONE SERIES.

27 points on 10/27 shooting
36 points on 12/32
22 points on 3/18
25 points on 8/24

But yeah, lets keep holding LeBron to this mythical standard where he's not allowed to have a couple bad games.

LikeABosh · Post #1035 » by **LikeABosh** » Sun May 12, 2013 3:02 am

^^Shaq also had back to back 17 and 18 point games against Portland way back in 00

Not that I think lebron is as good of a scorer as those two, but let's not say he can't be compared to them because he shot poorly in a game his team won.

PCProductions · Post #1036 » by **PCProductions** » Sun May 12, 2013 3:35 am

Ziggy Stardust wrote:
PCProductions wrote:Jesus the overreaction from last game is out of control. He looked mildly disengaged at best and his jumpers didn't fall and people are acting like he quit on his team. Gimme a break.

They won the game, too. If this was a loss then that would be another story. But Miami took a big game in Chicago's homecoming effort. This whole "he's no Shaq/Jordan" nonsense needs to stop. They're 6-1 this postseason with incredible offensive AND defensive rating with Lebron on the court, which is all that matters.

You know someone is ridiculously overhyped/overrated when someone makes a statement like that. Like it's ridiculous that people say he's no peak Jordan/Shaq.

I don't blame Lebron. I blame the espn hype machine and overzealous fans, because he's clearly not anywhere near that level.

No the point is that we insist on driving the comparison into the ground when the three are fundamentally different players that dominate in different regards. Lebron is the league's best player and is winning games and here we are barking about "effort" and "intensity" as if any of that matters in a win. Sure, it was a relatively lackluster game for his colossal standards, but it is immediately highlighted and underlined as some sort "repeat 2011 Finals." That is all.

therealbig3 · Post #1037 » by **therealbig3** » Sun May 12, 2013 4:17 am

Ziggy Stardust wrote:
PCProductions wrote:Jesus the overreaction from last game is out of control. He looked mildly disengaged at best and his jumpers didn't fall and people are acting like he quit on his team. Gimme a break.

They won the game, too. If this was a loss then that would be another story. But Miami took a big game in Chicago's homecoming effort. This whole "he's no Shaq/Jordan" nonsense needs to stop. They're 6-1 this postseason with incredible offensive AND defensive rating with Lebron on the court, which is all that matters.

You know someone is ridiculously overhyped/overrated when someone makes a statement like that. Like it's ridiculous that people say he's no peak Jordan/Shaq.

I don't blame Lebron. I blame the espn hype machine and overzealous fans, because he's clearly not anywhere near that level.

Meh, you're kind of an irrational hater (I'm guessing butthurt Cavs fan?), so of course you won't give him the credit he deserves.

He's clearly on peak Jordan or peak Shaq's level, at least during the regular season. And in the playoffs, he's pretty clearly played much more passively as a result of playing weak opponents, but still having a monster impact. We'll see how he plays against Indiana/NY and whoever comes out of the West, but I'm guessing we'll see an even better LeBron than we saw last year in the playoffs when the time comes.

Rasho_libre · Post #1038 » by **Rasho_libre** » Sun May 12, 2013 4:19 am

Winning is all that matters. Lebron haters of all people should know this.

Ziggy Stardust · Post #1039 » by **Ziggy Stardust** » Sun May 12, 2013 4:55 pm

PCProductions wrote:
Ziggy Stardust wrote:
PCProductions wrote:Jesus the overreaction from last game is out of control. He looked mildly disengaged at best and his jumpers didn't fall and people are acting like he quit on his team. Gimme a break.

They won the game, too. If this was a loss then that would be another story. But Miami took a big game in Chicago's homecoming effort. This whole "he's no Shaq/Jordan" nonsense needs to stop. They're 6-1 this postseason with incredible offensive AND defensive rating with Lebron on the court, which is all that matters.

You know someone is ridiculously overhyped/overrated when someone makes a statement like that. Like it's ridiculous that people say he's no peak Jordan/Shaq.

I don't blame Lebron. I blame the espn hype machine and overzealous fans, because he's clearly not anywhere near that level.

No the point is that we insist on driving the comparison into the ground when the three are fundamentally different players that dominate in different regards. Lebron is the league's best player and is winning games and here we are barking about "effort" and "intensity" as if any of that matters in a win. Sure, it was a relatively lackluster game for his colossal standards, but it is immediately highlighted and underlined as some sort "repeat 2011 Finals." That is all.

When then we misunderstood each other. I'm not doubting lebrons effort or intensity, I just don't think he's anywhere near the player of peak Shaq/Jordan and some other all time greats.

Ziggy Stardust · Post #1040 » by **Ziggy Stardust** » Sun May 12, 2013 4:57 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
Ziggy Stardust wrote:
PCProductions wrote:Jesus the overreaction from last game is out of control. He looked mildly disengaged at best and his jumpers didn't fall and people are acting like he quit on his team. Gimme a break.

They won the game, too. If this was a loss then that would be another story. But Miami took a big game in Chicago's homecoming effort. This whole "he's no Shaq/Jordan" nonsense needs to stop. They're 6-1 this postseason with incredible offensive AND defensive rating with Lebron on the court, which is all that matters.

You know someone is ridiculously overhyped/overrated when someone makes a statement like that. Like it's ridiculous that people say he's no peak Jordan/Shaq.

I don't blame Lebron. I blame the espn hype machine and overzealous fans, because he's clearly not anywhere near that level.

Meh, you're kind of an irrational hater (I'm guessing butthurt Cavs fan?), so of course you won't give him the credit he deserves.

He's clearly on peak Jordan or peak Shaq's level, at least during the regular season. And in the playoffs, he's pretty clearly played much more passively as a result of playing weak opponents, but still having a monster impact. We'll see how he plays against Indiana/NY and whoever comes out of the West, but I'm guessing we'll see an even better LeBron than we saw last year in the playoffs when the time comes.

Ok. So I'm an irrational hater because I simply don't think he's not on peak Shaq/Jordan level?