2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

[The Moose]

Incredible scoring performance from Cade.

His scoring is much more advanced than I had given him credit for.

His passing, in my opinion, still remains overrated.

Cade is playing much much much better than my pre-draft assessment. In a re-draft, I wouldn't feel horrible taking him #1 though Mobley is still #1 for me and any play from any player rest of the season won't change that.

I'm probably in the minority of Pistons fans but I see Cade more as a 2way Devin Booker with vision rather than a Luka. There is some real similarities in their scoring package. If Hayes can ever become a competent shooter from 3 I actually think he makes a really interesting backcourt partner for Cade, where Hayes can be more of a facilitator and Cade more of a scorer

[vege]

Watch on YouTube

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[MrBigShot]

the pistons net rating since the all star break is -0.3.

Yeah this is why I have to laugh when people say he just puts up empty stats. The pistons, while not a good team to begin with, are absolutely atrocious without Cade on the floor.

He's not gonna win RoY but his rookie year has been a very impressive display of the type of player he could become. The flashes of brilliance are there. I'd still take him #1.

[Vampirate]

the pistons net rating since the all star break is -0.3.

Yeah this is why I have to laugh when people say he just puts up empty stats. The pistons, while not a good team to begin with, are absolutely atrocious without Cade on the floor.

He's not gonna win RoY but his rookie year has been a very impressive display of the type of player he could become. The flashes of brilliance are there. I'd still take him #1.

Eeehhh He just might, Mobley and the Cavs have struggled some ever since Allen went down (Mobley is also out for a bit with his leg) and Barnes has waned a bit lately (Barnes 3 point shot has all but left him in March).

Cade's scoring in March might just push him for ROY tbh.

[mattao313]

Incredible scoring performance from Cade.

His scoring is much more advanced than I had given him credit for.

His passing, in my opinion, still remains overrated.

Cade is playing much much much better than my pre-draft assessment. In a re-draft, I wouldn't feel horrible taking him #1 though Mobley is still #1 for me and any play from any player rest of the season won't change that.

I'm probably in the minority of Pistons fans but I see Cade more as a 2way Devin Booker with vision rather than a Luka. There is some real similarities in their scoring package. If Hayes can ever become a competent shooter from 3 I actually think he makes a really interesting backcourt partner for Cade, where Hayes can be more of a facilitator and Cade more of a scorer

I feel the same way I been preaching it all season on the Pistons boards he's more of a 2 but can still run the offense. I like agressive scoring Cade more,get someone else to run the offense more and let Cade do his thing.

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[MrBigShot]

the pistons net rating since the all star break is -0.3.

Yeah this is why I have to laugh when people say he just puts up empty stats. The pistons, while not a good team to begin with, are absolutely atrocious without Cade on the floor.

He's not gonna win RoY but his rookie year has been a very impressive display of the type of player he could become. The flashes of brilliance are there. I'd still take him #1.

Eeehhh He just might, Mobley and the Cavs have struggled some ever since Allen went down (Mobley is also out for a bit with his leg) and Barnes has waned a bit lately (Barnes 3 point shot has all but left him in March).

Cade's scoring in March might just push him for ROY tbh.

He has been pretty absurd in March...23/7/6 on pretty solid percentages is all star level. Cade obviously has a lot less to work with and has the most responsibility on his team. But if I'm looking at it objectively I think one of Barnes or Mobley has to win it. They have a notable edge in advanced stats and scoring efficiency. Cade got off to a terrible start before finding his footing (37/29/84 shooting splits in November, rough shooting in February too albeit only in 7 games)

Cade kind of reminds me of Brandon Roy with more natural playmaking ability. Both have a great handle and seem to get wherever they want on the floor, silky smooth jumper especially from midrange, crafty around the rim.

[Vampirate]

Yeah this is why I have to laugh when people say he just puts up empty stats. The pistons, while not a good team to begin with, are absolutely atrocious without Cade on the floor.

He's not gonna win RoY but his rookie year has been a very impressive display of the type of player he could become. The flashes of brilliance are there. I'd still take him #1.

Eeehhh He just might, Mobley and the Cavs have struggled some ever since Allen went down (Mobley is also out for a bit with his leg) and Barnes has waned a bit lately (Barnes 3 point shot has all but left him in March).

Cade's scoring in March might just push him for ROY tbh.

He has been pretty absurd in March...23/7/6 on pretty solid percentages is all star level. Cade obviously has a lot less to work with and has the most responsibility on his team. But if I'm looking at it objectively I think one of Barnes or Mobley has to win it. They have a notable edge in advanced stats and scoring efficiency. Cade got off to a terrible start before finding his footing (37/29/84 shooting splits in November, rough shooting in February too albeit only in 7 games)

Cade kind of reminds me of Brandon Roy with more natural playmaking ability. Both have a great handle and seem to get wherever they want on the floor, silky smooth jumper especially from midrange, crafty around the rim.

Here's the way I look at it out of the 3 ranking them

Mobley #1 defence overall, #3 offense overall
Barnes #2 defense overall, #2 offense overall
Cade #3 defense overall, #1 offense overall

Pick your poison.

My opinion of course.

I'm putting cade #1 on Offense because Barnes or Mobley has yet to put up a scoring month that Cade has month and on decent shooting. Neither of the 3 can shoot the 3 worth a damn lol, though cade has the clear edge there as well. In terms of passing I prefer Barnes, but admittedly I don't know how Cade would fare with better teammates.

Cade is the most skilled and the biggest bag of tricks.

Mobley on defense pretty much speaks for itself. Barnes and Cade are no slouches to say the least.

Barnes pretty much does everything well except shoot the 3 and is probably the most efficient of the 3 from 10 feet in. Whether that makes him the best there is up for debate.

Keep in mind this is pretty much in relation to each other, neither Mobley, Cade or Barnes are slouches on either end and all 3 are 2 way players who impact games in different ways both defensively and offensively.

[Madhouse]

He’s developed big time. He’s the rookie leader in iso defense minimum 60 games.

His only issue right now is muscle, an easy fix. He’s already put on muscle during the season.

Even as a big believer in Green, his defense is still really bad. All advanced metrics back that up. -3.1 defensive Raptor and -2.4 defensive EPM is really bad but he has improved and is not as bad as he was in 2021. He still has a long way to go on the defensive end.

Just fyi, none of them measures defense independent of team performance. In addition, aggregate level metrics like Raptor, EPM, DBPM do not really measure defense in any way, rather they measure statistics correlated with defense (Steal, Reb, Blk).

Plus no one is saying Green is an elite defender. He is however showing glimpse of elite defense which is something you don't see from rookie two guards, almost never ever.

Uh, no. You should do some research. Why do you think some players are highly graded despite being on terrible teams?

You don't even have to get steals or blocks to get a high EPM or Raptor. Those aren't boxscore metrics.

[Sane]

Unless hes really developed big time as a defender already im not sure about trying to compare him to two way star players. Hes gonna be a really good player but he looked literally awful defensively when i seen him earlier.

He’s developed big time. He’s the rookie leader in iso defense minimum 60 games.

His only issue right now is muscle, an easy fix. He’s already put on muscle during the season.

Even as a big believer in Green, his defense is still really bad. All advanced metrics back that up. -3.1 defensive Raptor and -2.4 defensive EPM is really bad but he has improved and is not as bad as he was in 2021. He still has a long way to go on the defensive end.

You are misusing those stats, that’s not how they work. Post the top 20 players of each of those stats, it’s instantly clear. You’re going to find bad defenders in great defensive teams scoring high and good defenders on poor defending teams too low.

That rise in his numbers happens while rockets get progressively worse at defense.

If you do some further research on great defenders advanced metrics when on losing teams, it will stand out to you.

These stats don’t tell you if someone’s a good defender vs the league. These stats are to compare to teammates and opponents on the floor.

[Sane]

This guy is going to be disrupting your point of attack next season.

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=8xbEoHckII7pR6YhFiVU1Q

[Madhouse]

He’s developed big time. He’s the rookie leader in iso defense minimum 60 games.

His only issue right now is muscle, an easy fix. He’s already put on muscle during the season.

Even as a big believer in Green, his defense is still really bad. All advanced metrics back that up. -3.1 defensive Raptor and -2.4 defensive EPM is really bad but he has improved and is not as bad as he was in 2021. He still has a long way to go on the defensive end.

You are misusing those stats, that’s not how they work. Post the top 20 players of each of those stats, it’s instantly clear. You’re going to find bad defenders in great defensive teams scoring high and good defenders on poor defending teams too low.

That rise in his numbers happens while rockets get progressively worse at defense.

If you do some further research on great defenders advanced metrics when on losing teams, it will stand out to you.

These stats don’t tell you if someone’s a good defender vs the league. These stats are to compare to teammates and opponents on the floor.

They don't paint a full picture, but they give you a good idea. I know exactly how they work.

You have it wrong. Why do you think J. Winslow has elite defensive metrics while being on the Blazers one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA? Exactly.

No good or even average defender is graded as the worst or 2nd worst on his own team in the entire league.

Your fandom while understandable is deluding you from reality.

But I'm not forgetting, I'm talking to someone who thinks Harden is a better offensive player than MJ and that the Rockets were playoff bound this year.

[PlatinumState]

Cade's proven to be that franchise player you can build around. Detroit needs to hit another home run in this upcoming draft and theyre off to the races
Next year they can be competitive

[Gasolina]

It’s Cade and Barnes now. I’m sorry but Mobley is out. He was slumping before the injury and now will surely be passed by both those other dudes.

[JackTalkThai]

It’s Cade and Barnes now. I’m sorry but Mobley is out. He was slumping before the injury and now will surely be passed by both those other dudes.

But isn’t Barnes slumping too? He hasn’t seemed to be the same player since his 30 point output back in mid March.

[HumbleRen]

It’s Cade and Barnes now. I’m sorry but Mobley is out. He was slumping before the injury and now will surely be passed by both those other dudes.

But isn’t Barnes slumping too? He hasn’t seemed to be the same player since his 30 point output back in mid March.

Been the same player, OG and GTJ are back in the line up though so no more 2nd option Scottie.

His usage was already significantly lower than Cade but now with those guys back in, it's hard to see him get enough chances to keep up with Cade if Cade keeps on going like this.

[MotownMadness]

Just watched the replay of last nights game. Cade went nuts in clutch time (final 5 mins).

Cool too see Kyrie, Durant and Drummond all come right to him at the same time after the game to show their respects for him.

[MotownMadness]

This guy is going to be disrupting your point of attack next season.

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=8xbEoHckII7pR6YhFiVU1Q

Yeah i can see where he's improving at staying in front of his man more. I remember when we played them earlier in the season i thought he was gonna get his ankles broke.

[CptCrunch]

Even as a big believer in Green, his defense is still really bad. All advanced metrics back that up. -3.1 defensive Raptor and -2.4 defensive EPM is really bad but he has improved and is not as bad as he was in 2021. He still has a long way to go on the defensive end.

Just fyi, none of them measures defense independent of team performance. In addition, aggregate level metrics like Raptor, EPM, DBPM do not really measure defense in any way, rather they measure statistics correlated with defense (Steal, Reb, Blk).

Plus no one is saying Green is an elite defender. He is however showing glimpse of elite defense which is something you don't see from rookie two guards, almost never ever.

Uh, no. You should do some research. Why do you think some players are highly graded despite being on terrible teams?

You don't even have to get steals or blocks to get a high EPM or Raptor. Those aren't boxscore metrics.

They are. They are fundamentally different from possession data metrics. Thanks for posting but you are out of your league in this subject.

[nikster]

He’s developed big time. He’s the rookie leader in iso defense minimum 60 games.

His only issue right now is muscle, an easy fix. He’s already put on muscle during the season.

Even as a big believer in Green, his defense is still really bad. All advanced metrics back that up. -3.1 defensive Raptor and -2.4 defensive EPM is really bad but he has improved and is not as bad as he was in 2021. He still has a long way to go on the defensive end.

You are misusing those stats, that’s not how they work. Post the top 20 players of each of those stats, it’s instantly clear. You’re going to find bad defenders in great defensive teams scoring high and good defenders on poor defending teams too low.

That rise in his numbers happens while rockets get progressively worse at defense.

If you do some further research on great defenders advanced metrics when on losing teams, it will stand out to you.

These stats don’t tell you if someone’s a good defender vs the league. These stats are to compare to teammates and opponents on the floor.

Great so let's compare Green to his teammates that have played at least 1000 minutes:
He's 8th out of 10 for Defensive raptor. The 3 players he shares the most minutes with fair a lot better than he does.

He's last in offensive raptor.

[reanimator]

Incredible scoring performance from Cade.

His scoring is much more advanced than I had given him credit for.

His passing, in my opinion, still remains overrated.

Cade is playing much much much better than my pre-draft assessment. In a re-draft, I wouldn't feel horrible taking him #1 though Mobley is still #1 for me and any play from any player rest of the season won't change that.

I'm probably in the minority of Pistons fans but I see Cade more as a 2way Devin Booker with vision rather than a Luka. There is some real similarities in their scoring package. If Hayes can ever become a competent shooter from 3 I actually think he makes a really interesting backcourt partner for Cade, where Hayes can be more of a facilitator and Cade more of a scorer

Yep, this is the exact comp I put forth on the Pistons board, and I think the heliocentric stuff is actually losing steam among the majority.