The Russell Westbrook Thread (2014/15)

[richboy]

IMO Westbrook has had the best year in the league bar none. Not even close. Anthony Davis is the one guy I would consider having a better year. My problem is watching NO play you realize AD impact is not as good as his stats. It isn't his fault. For whatever reason he goes multiple possessions and long stretches where he barely even touches the ball. The biggest stat machine in the league is Davis. Yesterday Davis goes 11 for 13 and he was amazing. The story is why he only had 13 shots. Few of those shots are on offensive rebounds. His face up game is good enough to give him the ball all game long but they don't. He has not really learned how to get his teammates easy shots. AD is close but he needs a little more to effect the game the way that his stats say he should.

Harden has been great. He was great last year and the year before as well. All the time I watch a game and think are we heading down the same road again with James. Which is Harden takes advantage of regular seasons. The lack of prep time by other teams. Officials that call everything. Think the playoffs are going to come around and everyone is going to notice that Harden has tried 20 step back jump shots and the defense is ready for them. Has Harden improved or has his usage just went up without Howard and Parsons.

I have been tough on Harden in the past. This year he has improved defensively but my biggest complaint about him has been he is not a shot maker. He makes between 7 or 8 baskets per game in his Houston career and this year isn't any different. His game is still so much about finding ways to the foul line. I'm not sure I'm ready to give that MvP status. Not to mention I don't think that works in the playoffs. In the playoffs you need guys that make buckets against tough defense. Not look for a way to get to the free throw line when the game is on the line.

I really think using seeding for MVP debates is lazy. It doesn't tell the entire story. I felt that way since Rose beat Dwight for MVP years ago. Houston being a 3, 4 or 5 seed doesn't mean they are any better than the teams that are 6, 7 or 8. I would say if Howard doesn't come back. If Durant doesn't come back. Houston could be the higher seed but I would pick OKC to beat them in a series and do it easily. OKC is 20 games above 500 since Westbrook coming back from the broken hand. He came back with back against the wall needing to start winning now or the season would be done. Houston was 10 games above 500 the first time Dwight went out. Then played some of the worst teams in the league to really get the great start going. They have played solid basketball since but they aren't dominating the league by any measure.

I can not argue Curry not winning MVP based on the type of season GSW is having. I think RW is having the best year in the league. Curry is not too far behind. IMO I would right now vote either Curry or RW.

[richboy]

Yep, the thing is, I consider myself to mostly be an analytics fan, but Russ just defies everything I think about the game in literally every way imaginable. This team was 3-10 at one point, and its not just missing KD, though that's the biggest issue obviously. They went a stretch w/o Adams, now Ibaka, Collison, Jackson was essentially tanking this season, and they've never had a stable lineup. I'd give the MVP at this point to Harden based on the fact that he's in a similar situation and done it a few more games, but as crazy as it seems, I'd put Russ ahead of Curry. Curry's got at least 2/3 guys on that team who are at Ibaka's caliber this season, and they've had essentially zero injuries.

3-12, don't shortchange him

And I'm in the same boat, but Russ isn't necessarily defying analytics, he's defying the way we originally thought. Really it's just his ts% that looks 'bad' and it's above average. He impacts the game around scoring AND is a volume scorer. It really makes me wonder if we've misjudged Iverson.

I've said for years that efficiency with star high usage players is overplayed. You want it but it isn't the most important thing. I rather look at what the team is doing as a whole offensively. Since the trade OKC has had the best offense in basketball. What is most important is what does it take to force that player into those percentages. Kevin Mchale use to say that Westbrook distorted the defense as much as anyone in the league. Meaning to contain Westbrook you need to do things you don't usually do. You give him decent offensive talent around him and your picking your poison.

Put it another way I do think some stars get overrated because they don't really challenge the defense to defend them differently. Melo is a guy that to me doesn't distort the defense and when he does he doesn't make the pass. Same with someone like Kyrie Irving.

I think the biggest issue with Iverson is he never played with much offensive talent. It was easier to key on him. If Iverson played his entire career with the offensive weapons that he played with in Denver he could have been a much more efficient player. Westbrook playing with Kendrick Perkins has killed his TS%. He was killing his assist numbers. Now having bigs that can actually score you see how great a passer he is.

Speaking on that fact. If I'm Kanter I would be sure I'm playing next to Westbrook for the foreseeable future. People say Lebron makes his teammates better. Really what is that based on. It seems like the only players that play well next to Lebron is spot up shooters. That Lebron like many kids that are super talented early seem to mostly be drive and kick assist men. You don't see nearly as many assist going toward the rim. What separates good passers and great passers is passing thru the heart of the defense.

Westbrook even young has always had a great nack of passing toward the rim in the heart of the defense. Sometimes it makes him turnover prone but for bigs it is a dream. Lebron makes all his bigs spot up shooters because that what he is always looking to do. Kevin Love has to look at Kanter and think I thought Lebron was the one you wanted to play with.

[DamnWestbrook]

Don't know what we are currently talking about but Russell Westbrook is the current best in the world and the stretch of games he has had since the all star break until about two weeks ago is the best in history if you factor in the era differences.

[ThaRegul8r]

You know someone is playing ridiculous when he was 8/24 and people on RGM don't even care

This is why I wish we had this thread, and indeed, RealGM even existed, during peak Kobe in '06 and '07. I think if people went back and marveled at the game to game praise people would have less revisionist history.

Realgm certainly existed in 06-07.

I was going to say this. I myself joined in 2006 after lurking for a while, so it most definitely existed. RealGM has in fact existed since 2000.

[RSCD3_]

You know someone is playing ridiculous when he was 8/24 and people on RGM don't even care

This is why I wish we had this thread, and indeed, RealGM even existed, during peak Kobe in '06 and '07. I think if people went back and marveled at the game to game praise people would have less revisionist history.

Realgm certainly existed in 06-07.

I was going to say this. I myself joined in 2006 after lurking for a while, so it most definitely existed. RealGM has in fact existed since 2000.

I think he's referring to the fact that the forums are only archived to around 2007

I used wayback machine to try and get a glance at older topics but unfortunately there were only a few pages here and there.

Also I couldn't access the forbidden game thread with the pacers. Try as I might...

Really interesting looking at 2004 screen shots of the past, everything was bubblier

[bondom34]

Eat it.

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=12546025

[fallacy]

Eat it.

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=12546025

niiiiiiiice

[bondom34]

Don't think they'll need a triple double performanct tonight. Kanter is just beasting.

[RSCD3_]

Don't think they'll need a triple double performanct tonight. Kanter is just beasting.

Man utah must have been really dense trading the Next Kareem abdul Jabbar to OKC for scraps

just kidding around uth fans

But seriously if durant, kanter, ibaka, westbrook are all healthy and on the team next year i think they should be co-favorites with the cavs, who i think will be about a 60 win team next year with increase chemistry, love finding a more prominent role and blatt running more sets. On the other hand brooks has a healthy OKC playing top 10 defense lately and the players ad libbing by themselves are so good that they dont even need any play calls ran at all lol.

[bondom34]

Don't think they'll need a triple double performanct tonight. Kanter is just beasting.

Man utah must have been really dense trading the Next Kareem abdul Jabbar to OKC for scraps

just kidding around uth fans

But seriously if durant, kanter, ibaka, westbrook are all healthy and on the team next year i think they should be co-favorites with the cavs, who i think will be about a 60 win team next year with increase chemistry, love finding a more prominent role and blatt running more sets. On the other hand brooks has a healthy OKC playing top 10 defense lately and the players ad libbing by themselves are so good that they dont even need any play calls ran at all lol.

Remember the "Kanter vs. Empty roster spot" thread from like a week ago where people said they'd rather the empty spot. I'll take Kanter. Love the kid, and he seems happy in OKC.

As of now, since moving to OKC they've had 5 games where the C had 20/10.

Enes Kanter has all 5.

[RSCD3_]

BTW Bondom34 any chance that Dallas can fall to eighth and you guys play memphis?

Currently OKC is 40-30 and Dallas is 44-27 so OKC is 3.5 Back, but say the mavs go 4-7 and OKC goes 9-3

Does OKC have the tie breaker

[bondom34]

BTW Bondom34 any chance that Dallas can fall to eighth and you guys play memphis?

Currently OKC is 40-30 and Dallas is 44-27 so OKC is 3.5 Back, but say the mavs go 4-7 and OKC goes 9-3

Does OKC have the tie breaker

Mathematically its possible, but I'd doubt it. The loss to them last week was killer, they're losing the series 1-2.

[spearsy23]

Don't think they'll need a triple double performanct tonight. Kanter is just beasting.

Man utah must have been really dense trading the Next Kareem abdul Jabbar to OKC for scraps

just kidding around uth fans

But seriously if durant, kanter, ibaka, westbrook are all healthy and on the team next year i think they should be co-favorites with the cavs, who i think will be about a 60 win team next year with increase chemistry, love finding a more prominent role and blatt running more sets. On the other hand brooks has a healthy OKC playing top 10 defense lately and the players ad libbing by themselves are so good that they dont even need any play calls ran at all lol.

Remember the "Kanter vs. Empty roster spot" thread from like a week ago where people said they'd rather the empty spot. I'll take Kanter. Love the kid, and he seems happy in OKC.

As of now, since moving to OKC they've had 5 games where the C had 20/10.

Enes Kanter has all 5.

Closest prior to that? Mitch Mcgary with 19/10 in 23 minutes.

[RSCD3_]

I would metaphorically kill for a chance to see thunder - cavs in 2016

[freelancegenius]

As long as he starts as PG, he will never, ever win a championship....ever.

History teaches us many things. Iverson is a great parallel. Sixers didn't win squat until they moved him off-ball, and brought in a competent point who could actually play versatile positional defense and actually, you know, INITIATE the offense.

Too many people are too easily impressed by sexy statistics or highlights, and are pathetically ignorant to what winning basketball actually looks like.

Same people that are and were obsessed with Big O's numbers are the same suckers that fall for Westbrook's. You don't win anything of consequence playing 1 on 5. He sure is fun to watch at least...at times. So I guess there's that? But then again, so was Pistol Pete.

[bondom34]

As long as he starts as PG, he will never, ever win a championship....ever.

History teaches us many things. Iverson is a great parallel. Sixers didn't win squat until they moved him off-ball, and brought in a competent point who could actually play versatile positional defense and actually, you know, INITIATE the offense.

Too many people are too easily impressed by sexy statistics or highlights, and are pathetically ignorant to what winning basketball actually looks like.

Same people that are and were obsessed with Big O's numbers are the same suckers that fall for Westbrook's. You don't win anything of consequence playing 1 on 5. He sure is fun to watch at least...at times. So I guess there's that? But then again, so was Pistol Pete.

Had to get that off your chest huh?

[primecougar]

As long as he starts as PG, he will never, ever win a championship....ever.

History teaches us many things. Iverson is a great parallel. Sixers didn't win squat until they moved him off-ball, and brought in a competent point who could actually play versatile positional defense and actually, you know, INITIATE the offense.

Too many people are too easily impressed by sexy statistics or highlights, and are pathetically ignorant to what winning basketball actually looks like.

Same people that are and were obsessed with Big O's numbers are the same suckers that fall for Westbrook's. You don't win anything of consequence playing 1 on 5. He sure is fun to watch at least...at times. So I guess there's that? But then again, so was Pistol Pete.

you do reliaze he has a 48% assist rate.

[freelancegenius]

As long as he starts as PG, he will never, ever win a championship....ever.

History teaches us many things. Iverson is a great parallel. Sixers didn't win squat until they moved him off-ball, and brought in a competent point who could actually play versatile positional defense and actually, you know, INITIATE the offense.

Too many people are too easily impressed by sexy statistics or highlights, and are pathetically ignorant to what winning basketball actually looks like.

Same people that are and were obsessed with Big O's numbers are the same suckers that fall for Westbrook's. You don't win anything of consequence playing 1 on 5. He sure is fun to watch at least...at times. So I guess there's that? But then again, so was Pistol Pete.

Had to get that off your chest huh?

Why does the truth bother you guy? Did I rustle your jimmies? Seems like YOU needed to get "that" off your chest...

I speak the truth without glasses on. It's just my opinion based on personal experience and historical facts.

[ardee]

38-18 since the 3-12 start.

[ardee]

As long as he starts as PG, he will never, ever win a championship....ever.

History teaches us many things. Iverson is a great parallel. Sixers didn't win squat until they moved him off-ball, and brought in a competent point who could actually play versatile positional defense and actually, you know, INITIATE the offense.

Too many people are too easily impressed by sexy statistics or highlights, and are pathetically ignorant to what winning basketball actually looks like.

Same people that are and were obsessed with Big O's numbers are the same suckers that fall for Westbrook's. You don't win anything of consequence playing 1 on 5. He sure is fun to watch at least...at times. So I guess there's that? But then again, so was Pistol Pete.

Had to get that off your chest huh?

Why does the truth bother you guy? Did I rustle your jimmies? Seems like YOU needed to get "that" off your chest...

I speak the truth without glasses on. It's just my opinion based on personal experience and historical facts.

You don't just stand against him. You stand against ALL of us here in this thread. We love GOATbrook, and if you talk **** about him, expect us all to talk **** right back to you.