Trade Deadline Countdown Pre-Febuary Deadline

[AtheJ415]

That's one I'm glad to say I was wrong about Booker. Anyway, still doesn't change the piss poor decisions Ryan has made.

1) overpaying Bledsoe
2) overpaying Knight
2b) trading for Knight
3) overpaying Chandler
4) keeping Markieff
5) putting a bad roster together
6) hiring/firing Jeff H
7) firing assistants in the middle of the season
8) signing/trading I Thomas
9) building a 2 PG system
9b) building a 2 PG system around Medicore PGs
10) Hiring Watson
11) Coddling Kieff
12) trading away the Lakers pick
13) contributing to the lack of loyalty in players eyes
14) signing sonny Weems
15) putting this team in a bad position salary Cap wise with a team filled with overpaid players
[b]16) team is arguably in a Worse position than its was 3 years ago.
[/b]
Things he got right
1) Drafting Len (sorta)
2) Drafting Booker
3) Trading away Scola
4) Drafting Warren (not yet confirmed yet)
6) trading for Bledsoe (even if Bledsoe is overrated) for practicially nothing is a good return
7) getting a nice role player in Leuer for almost nothing
8) .... (Running out of ideas)


So yeah, Ryan has shown he has a decent eye for drafting but everything else is bad.

Ryan has done many questionable things that should be scrutinized. Sorry if I don't see happy happy joy joy with Ryan.

Do I think firing him is going to help, no because it's gonna take another GM about 3-4 years to clean this mess up. So Suns will be back where they started.


And to be quite Frank.....Sarver is the man at the Top so more of my blame goes to him. He has little desire to be the owner of a class organization. He can talk the talk but has has never walked the walk! Don't see this organization cultural changing until he sells. I don't associate class individual with Sarver.

You are so horribly wrong on all of the bolded. Just laughable.

Bledsoe is not overpaid. Look at the years remaining on his deal and what others are getting paid. You're then complaining for him both hiring and firing Jeff. You can't have it both ways. Same with signing and trading IT. There's no proof he "built" the 2 PG system. Pretty sure that was Jeff's system.

Also, we're in great cap shape and anybody claiming we're in a worse position than we were 3 years ago is in complete denail about where we were 3 years ago. That's not even debatable. It makes me question if there's a personal aspect to this, because no rational person could think this team's future was brighter with the Jared Dudley, Gortat, and Scola core than Bledsoe, Booker, Len, Warren, Knight, Bogdan, Goodwin.

We can keep going round and round about this but the bottom line is no one offered Bledsoe a contract (make up any excuse you want). The team does not have a great deal of money to add but 1 star player. I Thomas signing was a desperation signing. Which caused a logjam at PG and ended up biting Ryan in the ass (to put it nicely) which ultimately pissed off Goran. Every GM in the league was bewildered about the what Ryan was doing. And yes the Suns are in an "arguable" worse position cap wise. They had so much money coming off the books now they are strapped with chandlers, Knights, Bledsoe contracts. And Ryan is the one who signed the PGs so don't try and point fingers at Jeff as the one who devised the 2 PG system, he has to work with what he had. Not exactly a winning formula.

But hey we can definitely disagree since this is just a forum.

The bottom line is that the cap has risen drastically, which our GM projected, and thus, being a long-term deal, it is less than he'd likely get on the open market today. The bottom line is he is outproducing guys who get paid more. The bottom line is that you are simply wrong.

You want Goran on this team? Have you seen Goran play this year? If signing IT caused us to trade Goran for 2 firsts, then it's the best thing Ryan has done for this franchise, even better than drafting Booker. Goran is arguably the worst contract in the NBA. He also traded IT for a first, so what you're really saying when you get to the effect of those moves, is that we "desperately" signed a current all-star at one of the best contracts in basketball and avoided the worst contract in basketball while getting 3 firsts. Somehow, in your world, ALL of that is a negative for the GM.

Do you even know what the cap is this year? We're not strapped with contracts, and who the hell do you think we'd have signed this offseason? We have enough room for 1 max.

Here's a better question since you're so hung up on Bledsoe's deal. Who in the world could we have signed this season at Bledsoe's salary who would be better than him? I want to see this list.

[NavLDO]

That's one I'm glad to say I was wrong about Booker. Anyway, still doesn't change the piss poor decisions Ryan has made.

1) overpaying Bledsoe
On what planet is his deal bad? Let me rattle off some names that are making more money than him: Demarre Carroll, Tristain Thompson, Enes Kanter, Tobias Harris, Chandler Parsons, Goran Dragic, and Khris Middleton. Some more making within 2 million below him: Ricky Rubio, Kemba Walker, Ty Lawson, Robin Lopez, Nikola Pekovic. Which of those players and their contracts would you rather have over Bledsoe?
2) overpaying Knight
2b) trading for Knight
On the trade: We're going to have to wait to see where the Lakers' pick lands next season to decide whether the trade was worth it from a talent perspective. On the contract: Refer to the list in above.
3) overpaying Chandler
I'll agree with that. The contract is bad.
4) keeping Markieff
Actively looking to get rid of him. How is Markieff turning into a 6'10 toddler McD's fault? Kieff hadn't done anything wrong prior to his brother arriving, it made sense to move his brother and not Kieff. We are now seeing that keeping Kieff is also a mistake. Do you really think trades can happen as quickly as they do in NBA 2k? Wait until the deadline passes (when most trades happen) before bashing.
5) putting a bad roster together
How do you define that? This is important. Is the roster imbalanced, in your mind? I'm not sure I agree with that. Bled and Knight are starting caliber, near all-star level guards, Kieff coming into this season was a legitimate starting caliber 4, Chandler was a legitimate starting center (and still is, but his offense has plummeted due to nobody being able to toss a lob). PJ is the only non-starting caliber player in the starting lineup, but we have a good young player in Warren likely to take over in the next year, as well as young talented players in the backcourt behind Bledsoe and Knight (Booker and Goodwin), as well as behind Chandler (Len). Mirza and Leuer have proven to be more than competent back up 4s. Now we get to Weems and Price, who have turned out to be expensive 12th and 13th men. Are there no good players on it, in your mind? Again, I disagree.
6) hiring/firing Jeff H
The Jeff Hornacek who nearly had us in the playoffs his first season? That's a bad hire? The Jeff Hornacek who lost the locker room? That was a bad fire? Basically you have believe one of those things, so one of your complaints has to go.
7) firing assistants in the middle of the season
Again, won't argue against that move - a head scratcher for sure.
8) signing/trading I Thomas
Like Hornacek, you basically have to choose one or the other. If it was a mistake to trade IT, then it wasn't a mistake to sign him. If it was a mistake to sign him, it shouldn't be a mistake to trade him.
9) building a 2 PG system
9b) building a 2 PG system around Medicore PGs
You mean the system that got us 48 wins? Who are the players you'd have over Knight and Bledsoe who are available to acquire? Sure I'd rather have Steph and Klay, but they're not going anywhere. Seriously, what is your alternative solution?
10) Hiring Watson
I have no clue about Watson, but I'll let you have this one.
11) Coddling Kieff
So you want him to tear Kieff a new one in public, instead of trying to keep in-house business in-house
12) trading away the Lakers pick
Essentially the same as trading for Knight, again can't judge until we know what the pick actually is. Lakers keep it this year for sure, so we'll see about next season.
13) contributing to the lack of loyalty in players eyes
What do you mean by this? If all our roster is junk, he should be looking to get rid of them, right? Why is loyalty necessary? Unless we have talented players we should be looking to be loyal to, then he shouldn't be looking to trade them. So are Knight and Bled talented and should be held onto? Was IT? Marcus? Scola? Dragic? Now Kieff?
14) signing sonny Weems
Sonny isn't even that expensive, and like I said, he's a 12th or 13th man.....
15) putting this team in a bad position salary Cap wise with a team filled with overpaid players
Again, a restatement of Bled/Knight/Chandler contracts. Not sure how Knight and Bled are overpaid, but I'll give you Chandler. We aren't even trapped by these contracts, especially with a new cap looming.
16) team is arguably in a Worse position than its was 3 years ago.
We have a good young player at every position except the 4. I don't see how you can make this claim.

Bascially, you make it so McD is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't and repeat a lot of complaints to have a longer list.....

I cant And 1' this enough...exactly my thoughts. Cherry-picking and repeats are all that list is...

[AtheJ415]

You are so horribly wrong on all of the bolded. Just laughable.

Bledsoe is not overpaid. Look at the years remaining on his deal and what others are getting paid. You're then complaining for him both hiring and firing Jeff. You can't have it both ways. Same with signing and trading IT. There's no proof he "built" the 2 PG system. Pretty sure that was Jeff's system.

Also, we're in great cap shape and anybody claiming we're in a worse position than we were 3 years ago is in complete denail about where we were 3 years ago. That's not even debatable. It makes me question if there's a personal aspect to this, because no rational person could think this team's future was brighter with the Jared Dudley, Gortat, and Scola core than Bledsoe, Booker, Len, Warren, Knight, Bogdan, Goodwin.

We can keep going round and round about this but the bottom line is no one offered Bledsoe a contract (make up any excuse you want) -- Do not care, we signed him to a reasonable contract, and yes, we can go round and round on that fact all you want. The team does not have a great deal of money to add but 1 star player. I Thomas signing was a desperation signing. -- What were we 'desperate' for, exactly?? It was a smart business move, as it ultimately ended up in TWO plusses, a 1st Rd pick, and a whiny, declining talent in Dragic off our roster. Which caused a logjam at PG and ended up biting Ryan in the ass (to put it nicely) which ultimately pissed off Goran -- How did it bite him in the ass? Again, we got more value from him than had we not signed him??? What are you missing with this? Here. Do a Net Gain/Loss with IT, and tell me we lost out on that deal. Again, Dragic off the roster IS A PLUS!! . Every GM in the league was bewildered about the what Ryan was doing. -- Again. Hyperbole. Love it. I can play too...EVERY GM loved the trade for Bledsoe. EVERY media-type thought the signing of IT was a god bargain. I can go on and on with this hyperbolic junk all day, too. And yes the Suns are in an "arguable" worse position cap wise. They had so much money coming off the books now they are strapped with chandlers, Knights, Bledsoe contracts. And Ryan is the one who signed the PGs so don't try and point fingers at Jeff as the one who devised the 2 PG system, he has to work with what he had. -- How about Sarver? Did he have a say in it? Please tell me 'no' so you can 'show yourself', yet again, today... Not exactly a winning formula.

But hey we can definitely disagree since this is just a forum. -- Yep, we can, but it would be nice if you toned down the hyperbole and the cherry-picking.

Again, no one is trying to portray McD as a 'people person' or the best GM to ever bless the NBA, only that again, he has done more good than harm to this team, as much as you try to portray with your hyperbole and cherry-picking that this fact isn't the case. It is. This team had ZERO prospects following a 25-57 season. And now, we have multiple future picks, and multiple players under the age of 25. But go ahead and believe McD hasn't done more good for this team than harm...all the media-naysayer types are te same guys who were PRAISING McD and Horny after our 48-34 season...fickle crowd, ya' know...funny how you refuse to admit to that, huh...goes against your argument, does it??

McD is far from perfect, but like you said he's done a lot of good for us. What I don't understand is the vitriol many have on here, particularly from the tank-happy crowd. If you're going to tank, it only works if you nail the draft. You can't afford to tank an entire season and draft bad players or even average guys. McDonough has killed the draft. The only complaint anyone can really have on that front is Ennis, who is still so young he could turn into something (Archie hadn't shown much until this year aside from the occasional game). But hell, even today on this board a hater claimed his only good pick was Booker, so the haterade must be especially strong with some.

[Sunsdeuce]

OK fine you fine, we concede. Yes he's better than Blanks but that ain't saying much to put it mildly...

They sure do love a 14-40 team. I give up. Only on realgm will you find people defending this. One thing is for damn sure, Colangelo wouldn't have put up with this. Coming close to a decade of garbage, digest that!!

But I'm with you, I concede.

[letsgosuns]

McDonough's biggest pro is his ability to recognize talent in the draft. He is also good at finding players such as Leuer who are virtually unused on their team and trading very little to acquire them.

His biggest negatives are communicating with players and his vision of a team. I have no idea what he is doing in regards to both of those things. Several former players criticized the Suns front office after leaving. These are players that fans liked too. Now the Suns are looked at like a joke nationally and I doubt any player is interested in signing here unless the Suns overpay.

The dual point guard strategy was beyond stupid and ended up being a massive failure, as expected. Now the Suns have to reshuffle the roster once again to correct that mistake. McDonough might have a great eye for talent, but that does not mean he is qualified to be a general manager. There is a lot more that goes into being a gm besides drafting players. I would not be opposed to letting him go IF Sarver is willing to hire someone with proven championship experience at a front office level. Otherwise, hiring another person with no previous experience as a gm could be a waste of time.

[jredsaz]

On McD, I am not super impressed at this point.

Alex Len looks more like a bust every year. His offensive numbers are worse that Robin Lopez's were at this point in his career. Although Len is a better rebounder and defender and has more upside with his range. But overall there is not a lot separating the big men and those that would argue Len is clearly the superior player at the age of 22 is lying to themselves.

I know it was a bad draft but it was not a GREAT pick either. I'd be happier with Giannis or McCollum and feel about the same with Noel, McLemore, Pope, MCW, Adams or Muhammad.

Goodwin was a good value pick at 29 but his handle, decision making, and court vision are poor along with his shot. His shot can be improved but the rest of his weaknesses will lower his ceiling to a seventh or eighth man, preventing him from ever excelling at the combo guard. Fine pick but nothing that would save anyone's job.

Warren is a hell of a scorer with 20+ ppg potential. The knock on him has always been defense and effort. If McD and Sarver continue to run an organization that lacks structure and accountability his growth will be (Please Use More Appropriate Word) and his ceiling will be affected. You can't have this kind of disfunctinal culture and expect good talent to be maximized. Good pic at 13. I might rather have Hood. Definitely would have rather had Hood, Harris or Capela than Enis.

Booker is the guy who could change the Suns culture because Booker is great talent and he will excel anywhere. McD gets all props in the world for that pic.

McD won the Bledsoe and Scola deals but has not won any deal, trade or free agency, since. The Dragic trade turned out better than expected but he didn't win it. Everything else he did on that day looks, at the very least, questionable in retrospect.

The Bledsoe and Knight contracts are fine. Neither a bargain at this point. Cant see either becoming an albatross with the cap increase. Chandlers contract was terrible.

Again. Not super impressed with the track record. The Bledsoe and Booker moves are huge in his plus column. However, his inability to establish a quality culture (mostly Sarvers fault) crossed with the handling of the Mori will more likely than not get him fired.

[Sunsdeuce]

Im sorry if this comes off as harsh but if your responsible for assembling (and soon disassembling) the worst team, worst roster, and nearly (by an inch) worst record, you dont deserve any Coodoos.

[King4Day]

I'm still on the fence with McD.
He signed Thomas because Bledsoe wasn't a sure thing to return.
Also, Thomas said he was fine coming off the bench until.....he started coming off the bench.

It doesn't sound like Dragic was willing to give that season a pass to work things out. He wanted his money and probably felt his play was suffering enough to where he'd not get paid.
I guess I'd rather have Dragic AND the Lakers pick but that's only if it's a high pick. If next year comes along and the pick conveys as a late lottery then we likely won that trade.
It's a toss up.

People would have flipped out if we took Giannis so early in that draft. He wasn't seen as a top tier player but became one. We should have drafted Noel as most here wanted him. THAT was the mistake.

[RaisingArizona]

1) overpaying Bledsoe How is he overpaid? He was putting up all star like numbers this year. Injuries suck but it's part of the game.
2) overpaying KnightAgain, not really overpaid.
2b) trading for KnightMaybe but Knight and Bledsoe were playing well together but haven't been healthy at the same time all that much.
3) overpaying ChandlerYes, but he did it to lure Aldridge so he struck out going for the top FA.
4) keeping MarkieffMaybe, but we'll see what happens at the deadline here.
5) putting a bad roster togetherTo an extent yes, but a lot of it was coaching and injuries.
6) hiring/firing Jeff HNo.
7) firing assistants in the middle of the season
8) signing/trading I ThomasGot a 1st round pick out of it. I don't see how this was bad. Goran showed his true colors and that isn't on IT or McD.
9) building a 2 PG systemPretty sure Jeff had say on this.
9b) building a 2 PG system around Medicore PGsNah, that's just not true.
10) Hiring WatsonHow? He's had like 4 games to coach. Let me guess, he's a part of the franchise so he sucks automatically? Got it.
11) Coddling KieffPR.
12) trading away the Lakers pickSee 2b answer.
13) contributing to the lack of loyalty in players eyes Maybe so.
14) signing sonny WeemsYeah, that was a miss for sure.
15) putting this team in a bad position salary Cap wise with a team filled with overpaid playersNo.
16) team is arguably in a Worse position than its was 3 years ago.Definitely no. Come on, now. You really can't think that.

[thamadkant]

Woke up and noticed the hate between the McD and Anti-McD camps have intensified.

In the end... Sarver approves or rejects his GM's moves.... We have all witnessed this since he has joined the FO.

McD is a smart man that was PERFECT for a rebuilding team when he joined. Great drafter and diamond in the rough finder.

All the sideway movements are likely pressured by his boss.

[MrMiyagi]

Im sorry if this comes off as harsh but if your responsible for assembling (and soon disassembling) the worst team, worst roster, and nearly (by an inch) worst record, you dont deserve any Coodoos.

It really seems like you just expect the Suns to be the best team in the league with no understanding of how to build a team. You build a team through a combination of draft, free agency and trades. Everyone is complaining that we aren't building through the draft. You know how many teams have won championships with only guys they have drafted? I'm willing to bet it's 0 unless you go back to the origins of professional basketball. It just doesn't happen. Sure, the Spurs have a pretty high number of drafted players on their roster, but they've still got free agents and players who came via trades on their squad. You can't get mad at McD for accumulating draft picks, making trades and trying to sign free agents to build a team. That's like bashing someone for buying new tires for their car when they have a quarter tank of gas. Guess what? A quarter tank can get you to a gas station to fill up, and new tires are a pretty big deal for safe driving. Everything doesn't happen at once, it's a process. And just because you got new tires doesn't mean you also need a new windshield or even windshield wipers for that matter.

[Sunsdeuce]

Im sorry if this comes off as harsh but if your responsible for assembling (and soon disassembling) the worst team, worst roster, and nearly (by an inch) worst record, you dont deserve any Coodoos.

It really seems like you just expect the Suns to be the best team in the league with no understanding of how to build a team. You build a team through a combination of draft, free agency and trades. Everyone is complaining that we aren't building through the draft. You know how many teams have won championships with only guys they have drafted? I'm willing to bet it's 0 unless you go back to the origins of professional basketball. It just doesn't happen. Sure, the Spurs have a pretty high number of drafted players on their roster, but they've still got free agents and players who came via trades on their squad. You can't get mad at McD for accumulating draft picks, making trades and trying to sign free agents to build a team. That's like bashing someone for buying new tires for their car when they have a quarter tank of gas. Guess what? A quarter tank can get you to a gas station to fill up, and new tires are a pretty big deal for safe driving. Everything doesn't happen at once, it's a process. And just because you got new tires doesn't mean you also need a new windshield or even windshield wipers for that matter.

6 years going on 7 years of bad Suns (yes Ryan only contributed 3 years of that). Sorry, not gonna buy what your trying to sell.

And if you read my prior posts, I said most of the blame goes on Sarver. He's the one who created this losing cultural. But Ryan can't be given pats on the back until he puts together a winner. No one keeps there job by losing, sorry just doesn't happen.

As to your ..."it's a process"....no **** Sherlock. Difference is this team was a winner under Colangelo and it's been on a slow death since Sarver bought the team. Sarver is not responsible for the Nash years. Most everyone was set in place the moment Sarver came aboard (Colangelo and his son were still running the team Sarvers first year).

So I'm not going to apologize for not accepting losing. That's for you apologists. Not me, I grew up on a winning/first class organization. Colangelo wasn't perfect but damn he cared and always had stars or acquired stars.

And sorry you don't get Coodoos for being the laughing stock of the NBA (expect from apologist on Suns realgm).

[MathiasPW]

Pointless discussion on what should have been done or could have been done.

Let's focus on what can be done NOW.

[JMac1]

OK fine you fine, we concede. Yes he's better than Blanks but that ain't saying much to put it mildly...

They sure do love a 14-40 team. I give up. Only on realgm will you find people defending this. One thing is for damn sure, Colangelo wouldn't have put up with this. Coming close to a decade of garbage, digest that!!

But I'm with you, I concede.

According to Gambo, the great JC wasn't able to run the organization properly. The Suns couldn't meet payroll, they were in debt and were forced to sell. So, JC had/has flaws tool.

[RunDogGun]

Pointless discussion on what should have been done or could have been done.

Let's focus on what can be done NOW.

Voice of reason!

[RunDogGun]

OK fine you fine, we concede. Yes he's better than Blanks but that ain't saying much to put it mildly...

They sure do love a 14-40 team. I give up. Only on realgm will you find people defending this. One thing is for damn sure, Colangelo wouldn't have put up with this. Coming close to a decade of garbage, digest that!!

But I'm with you, I concede.

According to Gambo, the great JC wasn't able to run the organization properly. The Suns couldn't meet payroll, they were in debt and were forced to sell. So, JC had/has flaws tool.

I'm sure you meant to end with "too", but your ending made me laugh.

[Saberestar]

I truly believe that the reason we have not heard a response from Suns regarding Markieff (suspension/fine) is because a trade is coming

It wouldn't do them any good to come out and say he's never playing here again and hurt whatever little value he may have.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Gambo987/status/698247320047976448

[RaisingArizona]

I truly believe that the reason we have not heard a response from Suns regarding Markieff (suspension/fine) is because a trade is coming

It wouldn't do them any good to come out and say he's never playing here again and hurt whatever little value he may have.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Gambo987/status/698247320047976448

Well, duh, Gambo.

[MrMiyagi]

KUDUS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thamadkant]

Pointless discussion on what should have been done or could have been done.

Let's focus on what can be done NOW.

+1

This.

You have to deal with what you have been dealt with.