Markelle Fultz Discussion II

[LloydFree]

Danny finessed philly but thank god they didn't take Lonzo. At least fultz can hopefully be a spot up shooter off the bench one day.

I agree.

[sixerswillrule]

Danny finessed philly but thank god they didn't take Lonzo. At least fultz can hopefully be a spot up shooter off the bench one day.

Or a rich man's Bradley Beal and an all-star. Either way.

[Leronziia]

Fultz's offensive skillset is too vast to be a bench player.

He'll be right.

[Eyeamok]

Danny finessed philly but thank god they didn't take Lonzo. At least fultz can hopefully be a spot up shooter off the bench one day.

I think your partially right about what Ainge did. But just as big as the Danny factor is the ego of BC. No matter what happened up to that point Hinkies fingerprints were still all over the team. BC had traded away Noel for a bag of peanuts and tired to convince the fans he got a #1 pick for him. And Okafor was doing nothing..was he injured or not?

Our two best assets Simmons and Embiid were not playing. BC probably felt this might be his last time to make a big splash. So he went all in on Fultz. If nothing else he could say I added the #1 overall pick to this team. Did he overpay, time will tell. But making his mark on the team was a big reason why this trade was made. BC can't really take credit for Simmons, he can't take credit for Embiid, but he can for Fultz. Even though it was done through the hard work of Hinkies wheeling and dealing.

[Unbreakable99]

Danny finessed philly but thank god they didn't take Lonzo. At least fultz can hopefully be a spot up shooter off the bench one day.

I think your partially right about what Ainge did. But just as big as the Danny factor is the ego of BC. No matter what happened up to that point Hinkies fingerprints were still all over the team. BC had traded away Noel for a bag of peanuts and tired to convince the fans he got a #1 pick for him. And Okafor was doing nothing..was he injured or not?

Our two best assets Simmons and Embiid were not playing. BC probably felt this might be his last time to make a big splash. So he went all in on Fultz. If nothing else he could say I added the #1 overall pick to this team. Did he overpay, time will tell. But making his mark on the team was a big reason why this trade was made. BC can't really take credit for Simmons, he can't take credit for Embiid, but he can for Fultz. Even though it was done through the hard work of Hinkies wheeling and dealing.

At the bolded yes he overpaid. We don’t need to wait to determine that.

[JojoSlimbiid]

Danny finessed philly but thank god they didn't take Lonzo. At least fultz can hopefully be a spot up shooter off the bench one day.

I think your partially right about what Ainge did. But just as big as the Danny factor is the ego of BC. No matter what happened up to that point Hinkies fingerprints were still all over the team. BC had traded away Noel for a bag of peanuts and tired to convince the fans he got a #1 pick for him. And Okafor was doing nothing..was he injured or not?

Our two best assets Simmons and Embiid were not playing. BC probably felt this might be his last time to make a big splash. So he went all in on Fultz. If nothing else he could say I added the #1 overall pick to this team. Did he overpay, time will tell. But making his mark on the team was a big reason why this trade was made. BC can't really take credit for Simmons, he can't take credit for Embiid, but he can for Fultz. Even though it was done through the hard work of Hinkies wheeling and dealing.

Then who can? LOL wth he drafted him

[Ericb5]

Danny finessed philly but thank god they didn't take Lonzo. At least fultz can hopefully be a spot up shooter off the bench one day.

I think your partially right about what Ainge did. But just as big as the Danny factor is the ego of BC. No matter what happened up to that point Hinkies fingerprints were still all over the team. BC had traded away Noel for a bag of peanuts and tired to convince the fans he got a #1 pick for him. And Okafor was doing nothing..was he injured or not?

Our two best assets Simmons and Embiid were not playing. BC probably felt this might be his last time to make a big splash. So he went all in on Fultz. If nothing else he could say I added the #1 overall pick to this team. Did he overpay, time will tell. But making his mark on the team was a big reason why this trade was made. BC can't really take credit for Simmons, he can't take credit for Embiid, but he can for Fultz. Even though it was done through the hard work of Hinkies wheeling and dealing.

At the bolded yes he overpaid. We don’t need to wait to determine that.

It’s only an overpay if you think that you could have gotten Fultz for less. Just the fact that you lost the trade on points doesn’t mean that you over paid.

It’s like the guy in your fantasy football league draft who takes the 20th ranked player at 12 because he really wants him, and he would be gone by the next time he drafted. You either take the chance or you don’t. He paid what the price IS to get the guy.

Bryan decided that Fultz was his guy to complete the big 3. If he turns out to be right then it wasn’t an overpay. He paid a heavy price for him, so he is certainly putting his balls on the line, but if it works, then it works.

Plus let’s see where the pick ends up. If the Lakers pick conveys this year at 3 then it will make the trade look much worse, but if the Kings pick conveys in 2019 at 8, and Fultz looks good, and the Sixers are winning over 50 games then it was a good deal.




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[HotelVitale]

BC can't really take credit for Simmons, he can't take credit for Embiid, but he can for Fultz. Even though it was done through the hard work of Hinkies wheeling and dealing.

Then who can? LOL wth he drafted him

Is this your first year following the Sixers? There was a man named Samwell Hinkie who laid out this plan for the team to be bad in order to get a series of top-5 picks, and he was forced out late in the 2016 season after he'd already secured the team another season at the bottom of the standings. We won the lotto to get the #1 pick that season.

Simmons was also the consensus #1 pick; no matter what dumb article you might've read saying Ingram was a legit contender for that spot, no one competent would've taken anyone else. This is not revisionist anything either--maybe if Ingram wasn't slow and had any moves aside from 'take two dribbles and shoot fadeaway 16 footer' there would've been a real debate, but Simmons was so far ahead of his peers athletically and skill-wise that even a hype skeptic like myself had him like two tiers above the next guys.

[JojoSlimbiid]

BC can't really take credit for Simmons, he can't take credit for Embiid, but he can for Fultz. Even though it was done through the hard work of Hinkies wheeling and dealing.

Then who can? LOL wth he drafted him

Is this your first year following the Sixers? There was a man named Samwell Hinkie who laid out this plan for the team to be bad in order to get a series of top-5 picks, and he was forced out late in the 2016 season after he'd already secured the team another season at the bottom of the standings. We won the lotto to get the #1 pick that season.

Simmons was also the consensus #1 pick; no matter what dumb article you might've read saying Ingram was a legit contender for that spot, no one competent would've taken anyone else. This is not revisionist anything either--maybe if Ingram wasn't slow and had any moves aside from 'take two dribbles and shoot fadeaway 16 footer' there would've been a real debate, but Simmons was so far ahead of his peers athletically and skill-wise that even a hype skeptic like myself had him like two tiers above the next guys.

What does this even mean? Colangelo made the pick. I find it funny how many people cite random stories that Hinkie wanted to take Porzingis yet scoff at all the rumors that he wanted Ingram and that he had dinner with Wiggins with the intention of drafting him. I guess since Ingram and Wiggins kind of suck we can't attribute that to Sam the legend Hinkie...but we can attribute him wanting to draft Porzingis because well you know Porzingis is good.

Anyway back onto the topic I expect to start hearing stories soon of random jumper sightings. Hopefully some clips too

[HotelVitale]

Simmons was also the consensus #1 pick; no matter what dumb article you might've read saying Ingram was a legit contender for that spot, no one competent would've taken anyone else. This is not revisionist anything either--maybe if Ingram wasn't slow and had any moves aside from 'take two dribbles and shoot fadeaway 16 footer' there would've been a real debate, but Simmons was so far ahead of his peers athletically and skill-wise that even a hype skeptic like myself had him like two tiers above the next guys.

What does this even mean? Colangelo made the pick. I find it funny how many people cite random stories that Hinkie wanted to take Porzingis yet scoff at all the rumors that he wanted Ingram and that he had dinner with Wiggins with the intention of drafting him. I guess since Ingram and Wiggins kind of suck we can't attribute that to Sam the legend Hinkie...but we can attribute him wanting to draft Porzingis because well you know Porzingis is good.

What are you pretending not to understand? A few people wrote articles at draft time saying things like 'you know, if Ingram can get stronger, more athletic, and speed up his game and his shoot immensely, then he can be better than Giannis!' Those were just people trying to make the conversation a little more interesting than it was (was also part of the backlash against relentless overhyping of Simmons at the beginning of that NCAA season). There was no actual debate going on among GMs or people who really followed this stuff, Simmons was always clearly a better prospect (even if he's also outperformed almost everyone's expectations so far).

The Porzingis thing is 100% different from that. Hinkie's interest in Porzingis is based on speculation and a few bits and pieces of circumstantial evidence, and the fact is that he didn't in fact make that move--so that's not something people should believe or defend, even if they want to believe it. On the other, the fact that Simmons was the best prospect was just a commonly accepted fact, everyone but a tiny minority of people believed it was true.

Also, fwiw, I'm not a Hinkie worshipper: the process was what it was, it wasn't utterly brilliant or amazing, it was just a simple strategy that had its costs and benefits. Hinkie obviously made a lot of really bad calls on prospects and I don't think he was great as a talent evaluator (and I think he would've very happily taken Wiggins)--but there's no way you can give credit for the Sixers getting the #1 pick and taking the #1 prospect to Colangelo. That was a no brainer that the Process gifted him completely, while the Fultz trade was his own doing even if the larger situation still followed from the process.

[the_process]

Regardless of who was taken, just to trade up to 1... if the Laker pick doesn’t convey to Boston this year, and the Kings 2019 pick falls at 6 or lower, was it an overpay? This has always been the most likely scenario to happen since the trade happened. Still is. Even though I know no one wants to hear it.

[Ericb5]

Then who can? LOL wth he drafted him

Is this your first year following the Sixers? There was a man named Samwell Hinkie who laid out this plan for the team to be bad in order to get a series of top-5 picks, and he was forced out late in the 2016 season after he'd already secured the team another season at the bottom of the standings. We won the lotto to get the #1 pick that season.

Simmons was also the consensus #1 pick; no matter what dumb article you might've read saying Ingram was a legit contender for that spot, no one competent would've taken anyone else. This is not revisionist anything either--maybe if Ingram wasn't slow and had any moves aside from 'take two dribbles and shoot fadeaway 16 footer' there would've been a real debate, but Simmons was so far ahead of his peers athletically and skill-wise that even a hype skeptic like myself had him like two tiers above the next guys.

What does this even mean? Colangelo made the pick. I find it funny how many people cite random stories that Hinkie wanted to take Porzingis yet scoff at all the rumors that he wanted Ingram and that he had dinner with Wiggins with the intention of drafting him. I guess since Ingram and Wiggins kind of suck we can't attribute that to Sam the legend Hinkie...but we can attribute him wanting to draft Porzingis because well you know Porzingis is good.

Anyway back onto the topic I expect to start hearing stories soon of random jumper sightings. Hopefully some clips too

There is zero indication that Hinkie wanted Porzingis or Ingram.

Hinkie is responsible for selecting Okafor and I find it ridiculous and insulting to imply that the owners would meddle in a basketball decision like who to draft.

On the flip side Simmons was the no brainer first pick and Hinkie gets 100% credit for getting us that pick.

He also deserves a lot of credit for getting us the assets that led to Fultz even though Bryan made the decision. I think Fultz is a 50-50 responsibility for Bryan and Sam.

Bryan gets partial credit for TLC and Korkmaz since Hinkie got us those assets, and Bryan made the picks. He gets full credit for Amir and Reddick. Hinkie still dominates this franchise with his influence.


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[JojoSlimbiid]

Simmons was also the consensus #1 pick; no matter what dumb article you might've read saying Ingram was a legit contender for that spot, no one competent would've taken anyone else. This is not revisionist anything either--maybe if Ingram wasn't slow and had any moves aside from 'take two dribbles and shoot fadeaway 16 footer' there would've been a real debate, but Simmons was so far ahead of his peers athletically and skill-wise that even a hype skeptic like myself had him like two tiers above the next guys.

What does this even mean? Colangelo made the pick. I find it funny how many people cite random stories that Hinkie wanted to take Porzingis yet scoff at all the rumors that he wanted Ingram and that he had dinner with Wiggins with the intention of drafting him. I guess since Ingram and Wiggins kind of suck we can't attribute that to Sam the legend Hinkie...but we can attribute him wanting to draft Porzingis because well you know Porzingis is good.

What are you pretending not to understand? A few people wrote articles at draft time saying things like 'you know, if Ingram can get stronger, more athletic, and speed up his game and his shoot immensely, then he can be better than Giannis!' Those were just people trying to make the conversation a little more interesting than it was (was also part of the backlash against relentless overhyping of Simmons at the beginning of that NCAA season). There was no actual debate going on among GMs or people who really followed this stuff, Simmons was always clearly a better prospect (even if he's also outperformed almost everyone's expectations so far).

The Porzingis thing is 100% different from that. Hinkie's interest in Porzingis is based on speculation and a few bits and pieces of circumstantial evidence, and the fact is that he didn't in fact make that move--so that's not something people should believe or defend, even if they want to believe it. On the other, the fact that Simmons was the best prospect was just a commonly accepted fact, everyone but a tiny minority of people believed it was true.

Also, fwiw, I'm not a Hinkie worshipper: the process was what it was, it wasn't utterly brilliant or amazing, it was just a simple strategy that had its costs and benefits. Hinkie obviously made a lot of really bad calls on prospects and I don't think he was great as a talent evaluator (and I think he would've very happily taken Wiggins)--but there's no way you can give credit for the Sixers getting the #1 pick and taking the #1 prospect to Colangelo. That was a no brainer that the Process gifted him completely, while the Fultz trade was his own doing even if the larger situation still followed from the process.

Yeah I don't even know what you're going on about anymore. Whether Ben was considered consensus #1 or whether the Ingram-Hinkie rumors were true or not what is true is that Bryan "mess everything up" Colangelo didn't mess up that pick and thus the notion that he shouldn't get any credit for it is ridiculous.

[JojoSlimbiid]

Is this your first year following the Sixers? There was a man named Samwell Hinkie who laid out this plan for the team to be bad in order to get a series of top-5 picks, and he was forced out late in the 2016 season after he'd already secured the team another season at the bottom of the standings. We won the lotto to get the #1 pick that season.

Simmons was also the consensus #1 pick; no matter what dumb article you might've read saying Ingram was a legit contender for that spot, no one competent would've taken anyone else. This is not revisionist anything either--maybe if Ingram wasn't slow and had any moves aside from 'take two dribbles and shoot fadeaway 16 footer' there would've been a real debate, but Simmons was so far ahead of his peers athletically and skill-wise that even a hype skeptic like myself had him like two tiers above the next guys.

What does this even mean? Colangelo made the pick. I find it funny how many people cite random stories that Hinkie wanted to take Porzingis yet scoff at all the rumors that he wanted Ingram and that he had dinner with Wiggins with the intention of drafting him. I guess since Ingram and Wiggins kind of suck we can't attribute that to Sam the legend Hinkie...but we can attribute him wanting to draft Porzingis because well you know Porzingis is good.

Anyway back onto the topic I expect to start hearing stories soon of random jumper sightings. Hopefully some clips too

There is zero indication that Hinkie wanted Porzingis or Ingram.

Hinkie is responsible for selecting Okafor and I find it ridiculous and insulting to imply that the owners would meddle in a basketball decision like who to draft.

On the flip side Simmons was the no brainer first pick and Hinkie gets 100% credit for getting us that pick.

He also deserves a lot of credit for getting us the assets that led to Fultz even though Bryan made the decision. I think Fultz is a 50-50 responsibility for Bryan and Sam.

Bryan gets partial credit for TLC and Korkmaz since Hinkie got us those assets, and Bryan made the picks. He gets full credit for Amir and Reddick. Hinkie still dominates this franchise with his influence.


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This is pure insanity....like I'm not gonna derail Fultz's thread like other people have been doing since he got drafted but this is ridiculous.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

So basically Fultz is a bust right? Based off of a few games, an injured shoulder and a few knee jerk reactions? Now, I remember why I stay away these days.

[the_process]

Is this your first year following the Sixers? There was a man named Samwell Hinkie who laid out this plan for the team to be bad in order to get a series of top-5 picks, and he was forced out late in the 2016 season after he'd already secured the team another season at the bottom of the standings. We won the lotto to get the #1 pick that season.

Simmons was also the consensus #1 pick; no matter what dumb article you might've read saying Ingram was a legit contender for that spot, no one competent would've taken anyone else. This is not revisionist anything either--maybe if Ingram wasn't slow and had any moves aside from 'take two dribbles and shoot fadeaway 16 footer' there would've been a real debate, but Simmons was so far ahead of his peers athletically and skill-wise that even a hype skeptic like myself had him like two tiers above the next guys.

What does this even mean? Colangelo made the pick. I find it funny how many people cite random stories that Hinkie wanted to take Porzingis yet scoff at all the rumors that he wanted Ingram and that he had dinner with Wiggins with the intention of drafting him. I guess since Ingram and Wiggins kind of suck we can't attribute that to Sam the legend Hinkie...but we can attribute him wanting to draft Porzingis because well you know Porzingis is good.

Anyway back onto the topic I expect to start hearing stories soon of random jumper sightings. Hopefully some clips too

There is zero indication that Hinkie wanted Porzingis or Ingram.

Hinkie is responsible for selecting Okafor and I find it ridiculous and insulting to imply that the owners would meddle in a basketball decision like who to draft.

On the flip side Simmons was the no brainer first pick and Hinkie gets 100% credit for getting us that pick.

He also deserves a lot of credit for getting us the assets that led to Fultz even though Bryan made the decision. I think Fultz is a 50-50 responsibility for Bryan and Sam.

Bryan gets partial credit for TLC and Korkmaz since Hinkie got us those assets, and Bryan made the picks. He gets full credit for Amir and Reddick. Hinkie still dominates this franchise with his influence.

The owners meddled in getting Sam to trade for Ish Smith. The owners meddled in vetoing trading Okafor to Boston. The owners meddled in IR decisions on Embiid and Fultz. I’m not saying they did force Hinkie to take Okafor, but I’m certainly not putting it past them, either.

[Gsraider]

So basically Fultz is a bust right? Based off of a few games, an injured shoulder and a few knee jerk reactions? Now, I remember why I stay away these days.

I hear you. It's absurd even if it ultimately proves true. So many armchair GM's and amateur scouts!

[Ericb5]

What does this even mean? Colangelo made the pick. I find it funny how many people cite random stories that Hinkie wanted to take Porzingis yet scoff at all the rumors that he wanted Ingram and that he had dinner with Wiggins with the intention of drafting him. I guess since Ingram and Wiggins kind of suck we can't attribute that to Sam the legend Hinkie...but we can attribute him wanting to draft Porzingis because well you know Porzingis is good.

Anyway back onto the topic I expect to start hearing stories soon of random jumper sightings. Hopefully some clips too

There is zero indication that Hinkie wanted Porzingis or Ingram.

Hinkie is responsible for selecting Okafor and I find it ridiculous and insulting to imply that the owners would meddle in a basketball decision like who to draft.

On the flip side Simmons was the no brainer first pick and Hinkie gets 100% credit for getting us that pick.

He also deserves a lot of credit for getting us the assets that led to Fultz even though Bryan made the decision. I think Fultz is a 50-50 responsibility for Bryan and Sam.

Bryan gets partial credit for TLC and Korkmaz since Hinkie got us those assets, and Bryan made the picks. He gets full credit for Amir and Reddick. Hinkie still dominates this franchise with his influence.

The owners meddled in getting Sam to trade for Ish Smith. The owners meddled in vetoing trading Okafor to Boston. The owners meddled in IR decisions on Embiid and Fultz. I’m not saying they did force Hinkie to take Okafor, but I’m certainly not putting it past them, either.

Jerry may have “meddled” to force the ish Smith trade. The rest is pure speculation/rubbish.

Josh Harris didn’t get to where he is by stepping out of his lane. Meddling in areas that you don’t know a lot about is bad business.


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[LloydFree]

What does this even mean? Colangelo made the pick. I find it funny how many people cite random stories that Hinkie wanted to take Porzingis yet scoff at all the rumors that he wanted Ingram and that he had dinner with Wiggins with the intention of drafting him. I guess since Ingram and Wiggins kind of suck we can't attribute that to Sam the legend Hinkie...but we can attribute him wanting to draft Porzingis because well you know Porzingis is good.

Anyway back onto the topic I expect to start hearing stories soon of random jumper sightings. Hopefully some clips too

There is zero indication that Hinkie wanted Porzingis or Ingram.

Hinkie is responsible for selecting Okafor and I find it ridiculous and insulting to imply that the owners would meddle in a basketball decision like who to draft.

On the flip side Simmons was the no brainer first pick and Hinkie gets 100% credit for getting us that pick.

He also deserves a lot of credit for getting us the assets that led to Fultz even though Bryan made the decision. I think Fultz is a 50-50 responsibility for Bryan and Sam.

Bryan gets partial credit for TLC and Korkmaz since Hinkie got us those assets, and Bryan made the picks. He gets full credit for Amir and Reddick. Hinkie still dominates this franchise with his influence.

The owners meddled in getting Sam to trade for Ish Smith. The owners meddled in vetoing trading Okafor to Boston. The owners meddled in IR decisions on Embiid and Fultz. I’m not saying they did force Hinkie to take Okafor, but I’m certainly not putting it past them, either.

If Hinkie was forced to take Okafor over Porzingis, its his own fault for how he handled the 2014 draft. He should have never sected Dario Saric, knowing he wasn't going to have either Embiid or Saric for a year. If ownership ran interference on the pick, it is what it is. The fan base would have had a riot if they picked Porzingis, after taking Saric and Embiid. For rebuilding teams the draft is not only a talent grab, but a source for marketing and promotion (see the ridiculous Fultz trade selling out season tickets).

[the_process]

There is zero indication that Hinkie wanted Porzingis or Ingram.

Hinkie is responsible for selecting Okafor and I find it ridiculous and insulting to imply that the owners would meddle in a basketball decision like who to draft.

On the flip side Simmons was the no brainer first pick and Hinkie gets 100% credit for getting us that pick.

He also deserves a lot of credit for getting us the assets that led to Fultz even though Bryan made the decision. I think Fultz is a 50-50 responsibility for Bryan and Sam.

Bryan gets partial credit for TLC and Korkmaz since Hinkie got us those assets, and Bryan made the picks. He gets full credit for Amir and Reddick. Hinkie still dominates this franchise with his influence.

The owners meddled in getting Sam to trade for Ish Smith. The owners meddled in vetoing trading Okafor to Boston. The owners meddled in IR decisions on Embiid and Fultz. I’m not saying they did force Hinkie to take Okafor, but I’m certainly not putting it past them, either.

Jerry may have “meddled” to force the ish Smith trade. The rest is pure speculation/rubbish.

Josh Harris didn’t get to where he is by stepping out of his lane. Meddling in areas that you don’t know a lot about is bad business.

And guys who get to be where Josh Harris is also begin to think that their poop doesn’t stink. But in this case, when I say owners, I’m more referring to JC and Scott O’Neil. Even though neither of them are owners per se, they both speak for the ownership group.