Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[TheRaptor!]

I never commented on the Dame trade much because i never thought he was a viable option for us....As for KD....Yes i was pointing out how foolish it was when people were thinking we were going to get him for OG/GTJr and a couple picks....Which yes it is and was foolish....I was just speaking the truth in that scenario....I always thought KD wanted Suns and i always thought Bridges+Cam + Picks would be the better offer which i was right at the end of the day...

And i NEVER said we do not have a good enough package to get Giannis....I am saying just like with the delusional people that thought OG/GTJR was enough for KD that Barnes + Dick + 9th will prolly not get a deal done you will more than likely need to add at least 3 extra FRPs to that to even have a chance and who knows if that is even enough if Rockets/Spurs put out their best offers as Bucks may like them offers more....

If Giannis tells the Bucks he wants to go to the Raps, they will very likely honor his wishes given everything he did for them. Like we did with Lowry.

Could be possible but i still think we have to give up alot in that scenario....Just like when a 35 year old Durant made it known he wanted Suns ....The Suns still had to give up their 2 best young players in Bridges/Cam + 4 FRPs ....Which they added 5 more FRP with Bridges...So in total Durant got Nets 9 FRPs and Cam Johnson...

Raptors will still need to come correct...This is not some over the hill 35 year old its a MVP/FMVP all time great still in his prime years.

You got 70 (Seventy) posts in the thread, we heard you the first 50 times

[Buff]

No Spurs can offer up #2 (Prolly Harper), 14th (Prolly one of Flemming/Carter Bryant/Jase Richardson), Castle, Keldon, And a lot more FRPs considering they own OTHER teams FRPs as well as their own....

Like i said if you are not giving me a few of your best young guys + at least 3 future FRPs with at least 1 pick swap in there....I will just go and get a Donovan Mitchell + more type of package to try and get a better player than any of these young guys and try and compete since i do not own any of my Draft picks...

If you think Bucks can't go to any team in the league and ask for said player in return for Giannis and them teams saying "No thanks" Than idk what to tell you....

The whole reason we are even in the convo for Giannis in the first place is because we own all of our picks + Have a ton of young upside
players....Not one or the other....


If Giannis Demands a trade teams will give up alot because it will be a bidding war....That means you have to outdue the other teams offers... teams will put up good trades for an all time great here....35 Year old KD got Bridges/Cam 4 FRP like i said ....Giannis is younger and a better player than Durant...

What teams can offer and what teams will offer are two separate questions.

Ill leave it at this because you seem a lil delusional on this but this is Giannis we are talking about an all time great....Not some Gobert level player....This guy walks into your door and makes you a title contender day 1....Teams like the Spurs/Rockets can give up lots of young guys + picks and still have a pretty great team even after giving up all them draft picks/young players....If you are the Raptors and say hey take Barnes/9th/Dick and 2 FRPs or find another offer.....I will bet lots of money they can find a better offer than that....Or they just go get a better player package....Whats stopping Bucks from getting a Bridges/OG or a Brown/White/Pritchard or a Mitchell/Hunter type packages? Instead of the offers the teams with the young players + Picks packages if they are unwilling to add the things that make them a trade option to begin with?....

Do you seriously think them teams would reject an offer for Giannis if they went to the Knicks and asked for OG/Bridges or Mitchell/Hunter? ...If so idk what to say...Because they would not reject it....I think you are badly under rating Giannis value to any team trading for him and what the Bucks GM will get offered for him...

Remember, players have a lot of say even when they're under contract. Giannis says he will only play in certain markets and that will most likely going to happen. Nobody is going to sell the farm for a malcontent.

[Clutch0z24]

If Giannis tells the Bucks he wants to go to the Raps, they will very likely honor his wishes given everything he did for them. Like we did with Lowry.

Could be possible but i still think we have to give up alot in that scenario....Just like when a 35 year old Durant made it known he wanted Suns ....The Suns still had to give up their 2 best young players in Bridges/Cam + 4 FRPs ....Which they added 5 more FRP with Bridges...So in total Durant got Nets 9 FRPs and Cam Johnson...

Raptors will still need to come correct...This is not some over the hill 35 year old its a MVP/FMVP all time great still in his prime years.

You got 70 (Seventy) posts in the thread, we heard you the first 50 times

Im responding to people responding to me....Sorry if you are not having conversations in here....But i am pretty sure you are not a boss in here and can tell people who can post and who can't post....

This is the same kinda thing that happened in the KD threads back in the day ....a group of delusional Raptors homers overrating our assets thinking we can get an all time great for peanuts and they have to accept it or else....And when i bring up the delusions you get posters like you who get mad at me for my opinions

I am sure ill be right like i was in the KD thread anyways so your right i should stop entertaining these foolish posts...

[Tripod]

I never commented on the Dame trade much because i never thought he was a viable option for us....As for KD....Yes i was pointing out how foolish it was when people were thinking we were going to get him for OG/GTJr and a couple picks....Which yes it is and was foolish....I was just speaking the truth in that scenario....I always thought KD wanted Suns and i always thought Bridges+Cam + Picks would be the better offer which i was right at the end of the day...

And i NEVER said we do not have a good enough package to get Giannis....I am saying just like with the delusional people that thought OG/GTJR was enough for KD that Barnes + Dick + 9th will prolly not get a deal done you will more than likely need to add at least 3 extra FRPs to that to even have a chance and who knows if that is even enough if Rockets/Spurs put out their best offers as Bucks may like them offers more....

If Giannis tells the Bucks he wants to go to the Raps, they will very likely honor his wishes given everything he did for them. Like we did with Lowry.

Could be possible but i still think we have to give up alot in that scenario....Just like when a 35 year old Durant made it known he wanted Suns ....The Suns still had to give up their 2 best young players in Bridges/Cam + 4 FRPs ....Which they added 5 more FRP with Bridges...So in total Durant got Nets 9 FRPs and Cam Johnson...

Raptors will still need to come correct...This is not some over the hill 35 year old its a MVP/FMVP all time great still in his prime years.

Agreed. But I also think Masai won't leave him himself unable to make other moves that he will need to make.

And Barnes is 23 with a ROTY and an All Star nod under his belt...something neither of those guys had.

Plus, Bridges was pumped and dumped by Brooklyn...everyone views that as an overpay by Knicks.

IMO, Giannis is only coming here if he chooses here. And at that point, some middle ground will be found....like a few years down the rd trading them extra 1st for Young+2nd...lol(kidding).

[Clutch0z24]

The only package I think you are over-rating is Bridges/OG, mainly because Milwaukee won't have much use for them and would need to flip them. And I agree with you on Sengun. Otherwise, all the other packages are better than Barnes. With Harper, you can at least delude yourself into thinking you might have your offensive focal point. Chet has more value than Scottie and JDub has a higher allure of potential first option.

Fortunately for us, OKC won't be in it. Cavs won't trade Mitchell (it would be Garland which is a lot closer + they don't have much pick capital), I highly doubt the Knicks offer Bridges+OG (Giannis + Brunson + Kat with no assets left is way too hard to build around). And Celtics can't aggregate salaries and it would be near impossible for them to get a trade done. The real viable packages that you've highlighted are the Spurs and Rockets. Maybe the Knicks say screw it, we'll figure it out (but they don't really have much pick capital).

So I agree with you that Giannis is worth a ton. But the viable options are actually more limited than many think. Milwaukee can always decide not to trade him, but if Giannis forces their hand...

Cavs trade Mitchell for Giannis thats a Huge upgrade and if you can pair Giannis with Mobley that would be like us teaming Giannis with a better fit Barnes.....All these teams if Giannis is being offered to you for a player package every team takes that deal because no player(s) will be better than Giannis....

Again Giannis is one of the best in the league....Any player being offered will always be worth it for the team getting Giannis....Thats why like i said teams with promising young players + Draft picks are appealing because they have Both...If you are unwilling to trade both picks + the prospects Bucks will just do the smarter thing and go get the best player they can which could be a Mitchell/OG-Bridges/Brown-White type of players...

a team would be dumb to reject an offer for Giannis for any other all star in the league outside of Shai/Jokic...

Sorry, I should have explained better. Your intuition is correct, but you're missing cap implications and current CBA rules.

Cavs are a 2nd apron team next year I believe so would need to try and do the deal this year. However, even doing it this year (e.g. during the draft), the outcome can't put them in the 2nd apron and they would need to match the salary 100% which isn't possible. So they would need to first shed salary elsewhere before making the trade. That means they'll have to give up a bunch of depth without taking much - if any - salary back. This is already pretty difficult to pull off, but assuming they do, they would be too bare to then give up their best player as well. That's why I said, at best, it's Garland.

Boston and NY face similar hurdles and the packages you highlighted don't work under the current CBA. There aren't that many teams that would feasibly be good enough AND are able to trade for him under the current CBA with the limits it puts on salaries changing hands and aggregating players above the 2nd apron.

Mitchell makes 46 mill, Giannis makes 54 so i think if they just added Deandre Hunter along with Mitchell they would be fine...

[Clutch0z24]

If Giannis tells the Bucks he wants to go to the Raps, they will very likely honor his wishes given everything he did for them. Like we did with Lowry.

Could be possible but i still think we have to give up alot in that scenario....Just like when a 35 year old Durant made it known he wanted Suns ....The Suns still had to give up their 2 best young players in Bridges/Cam + 4 FRPs ....Which they added 5 more FRP with Bridges...So in total Durant got Nets 9 FRPs and Cam Johnson...

Raptors will still need to come correct...This is not some over the hill 35 year old its a MVP/FMVP all time great still in his prime years.

Agreed. But I also think Masai won't leave him himself unable to make other moves that he will need to make.

And Barnes is 23 with a ROTY and an All Star nod under his belt...something neither of those guys had.

Plus, Bridges was pumped and dumped by Brooklyn...everyone views that as an overpay by Knicks.

IMO, Giannis is only coming here if he chooses here. And at that point, some middle ground will be found....like a few years down the rd trading them extra 1st for Young+2nd...lol(kidding).

Yep i believe there is a chance we could outbid teams even if he doesn't just choose Toronto...I think Barnes/Dick or Barrett/Ochai/#9 +3 FRP and a pick swap is prolly a great offer league wide....I think only Spurs/Rockets could realistically match it...But if We don't add the pick package on top of the Prospects ...I think alot of teams can trump us...But yeah him choosing Toronto and only us is prolly not happening either as i think he would be fine in a place like New York, Brooklyn, Houston/Spurs....I think Giannis loves Wemby so i doubt he rejects going there to team with him...

[The Duke]

I wouldn’t empty the cupboard for Giannis. I’d give 110% of the relative Siakam package.

[OakleyDokely]

I think Giannis will provide a list of teams he'd accept a trade to, and the Bucks will work with those teams specifically. But if the Bucks don't like the offers, I can see Giannis staying put.

If the best offer comes from Charlotte, I'd say it's pretty unlikely the Bucks trade him there without his blessing.

NBA superstars have a lot of leverage, and no organization is going to give up a kings ransom without knowing first that Giannis wants to play there and he will be happy.

[mihaic]

I wouldn’t empty the cupboard for Giannis. I’d give 110% of the relative Siakam package.

Masai didn't trade alot of picks in any deal for big names: Kawhi, Ingram, Gasol, Ibaka. It seems he agrees with you. I also agree.

[JB7]

Well this thread went downhill.

Might have got lost in the murk....but tripod's zion idea is by far the best one I've seen here:

Raps get Giannis

NO gets Barnes

Bucks get:

-Zion
-their two picks/swaps from NO back
-2 future NO picks
-3 raptor picks
-salary filler (including some prospects)

Everyone wins here.

Raps get zion without tearing apart the existing roster. Might even be able to keep #9.

Pelicans turn zion into scotty and it costs them 4 picks (scotty is probably worth 3 picks and getting rid of zion is worth at least one so it's a great move for them)

Bucks jump on the zion grenade but they get 7 picks including, and most importantly, their own so they can tank. They also get those swaps back. They also get a few pieces in the salary filler: Maybe something like 2 prospects and 2 role players who can also be flipped for second rounders.

Any straight up trade has a limit of 4 picks.....and here the bucks are getting 7 knowing full well that zion may never even suit up for them. They also get those swaps back, further enabling the tank. Of those 7 picks....at least 3 to 4 of them will be lottery picks. So it's not one of those "4 mid to late round pick" deals.

Everyone wins. The only thing left for the Raptors to do is sign fred vanvleet to a player/coach deal and replace Darko with him.

Interesting idea, but that is a lot NO is offering up. Considering where they are right now, I would rather hold onto Zion, and all the picks/swaps from the Bucks.

Zion’s value is rock bottom. I would rather let him try and play his way out of it. He has to be on his best behaviour because the threat of the Pelicans choosing to opt out of his deal is probably real now. And they always have that option if things go worse. And if NO opts out of the deal, Zion is not getting anything close to that money from another team.

With the Bucks picks, once Giannis is traded, regardless of what they get back, they will be a team at best competing for a play-in spot, and at worst potentially the worst team in the East. And what the lottery has shown is any chance can end up a good pick.

Adding Barnes is not making NO anything in the West. No reason to mortgage all that future for Barnes. Especially a team like the Pelicans, that will never be able to attract stars through FA. They need as many chances in the draft that they can get, and hope they hit on a couple of picks.

[Tripod]

Could be possible but i still think we have to give up alot in that scenario....Just like when a 35 year old Durant made it known he wanted Suns ....The Suns still had to give up their 2 best young players in Bridges/Cam + 4 FRPs ....Which they added 5 more FRP with Bridges...So in total Durant got Nets 9 FRPs and Cam Johnson...

Raptors will still need to come correct...This is not some over the hill 35 year old its a MVP/FMVP all time great still in his prime years.

Agreed. But I also think Masai won't leave him himself unable to make other moves that he will need to make.

And Barnes is 23 with a ROTY and an All Star nod under his belt...something neither of those guys had.

Plus, Bridges was pumped and dumped by Brooklyn...everyone views that as an overpay by Knicks.

IMO, Giannis is only coming here if he chooses here. And at that point, some middle ground will be found....like a few years down the rd trading them extra 1st for Young+2nd...lol(kidding).

Yep i believe there is a chance we could outbid teams even if he doesn't just choose Toronto...I think Barnes/Dick or Barrett/Ochai/#9 +3 FRP and a pick swap is prolly a great offer league wide....I think only Spurs/Rockets could realistically match it...But if We don't add the pick package on top of the Prospects ...I think alot of teams can trump us...But yeah him choosing Toronto and only us is prolly not happening either as i think he would be fine in a place like New York, Brooklyn, Houston/Spurs....I think Giannis loves Wemby so i doubt he rejects going there to team with him...

But that's where "wanting to stay in the East" could help us.

Eliminates Rockets/Spurs.

Brooklyn doesn't give him a chance to win next year. Knicks would have to get very creative since they depleted their picks.

In the end, it's all guesswork. Going to be a fun offseason regardless.

[M3tro]

If it costs us Scottie/Dick/Agbaji/#9 and 3 other 1sts, you do it. No hesitation.

A player of Giannis' calibre who hypothetically wants to play in Toronto, is a once in a lifetime event.

Can't get cold feet when it's time to step onto the big stage.

[Son Goku 25]

So realistically these hypothetical trades with Giannis don't have until likely early July but Barnes isn't included it can happen anytime likely after draft or around that.. buckle up

[Tha Cynic]

I would do this and it's probably the best offer Bucks will get if he wants to stay in the East. Toronto also pays for Bucks to get their own 26' back with no swap. If I made this deal for the Bucks I would tank the 2026 season and pick high and roll in 27' with Barnes and a top pick and then look to move Lillard next off-season for more. It's a steep price but I don't think Toronto is getting him for cheaper than this.

This trade would put the Raptors in a similar position to what Milwaukee is in. There is no way we are trading Barnes and 4 or 5 first rounders. This will handicap us for years with no way to improve the roster.

[WuTang_CMB]

I would do this and it's probably the best offer Bucks will get if he wants to stay in the East. Toronto also pays for Bucks to get their own 26' back with no swap. If I made this deal for the Bucks I would tank the 2026 season and pick high and roll in 27' with Barnes and a top pick and then look to move Lillard next off-season for more. It's a steep price but I don't think Toronto is getting him for cheaper than this.

This trade would put the Raptors in a similar position to what Milwaukee is in. There is no way we are trading Barnes and 4 or 5 first rounders. This will handicap us for years with no way to improve the roster.

If it's Toronto only he wants, then yeah the offered picks will be less. If its a bidding war, this is likely the frame work. Maybe Masai gets away with keeping our 2025 pick but thats about it

Bucks Giannis have Kuzma and a declining Dame coming off an achilles tear, that's it. Toronto even after doing a trade like this, would still have much more. BI alone is better than anything they have.

[Tha Cynic]

Read on Twitter

I would do that in a heartbeat.

I think any version of Giannis + Ingram + shooters is going to win you a lot of games.

Making those all unprotected while relying on a duo that is heavily reliant on an unhealthy player staying healthy, and another increasingly injured player no longer being injured, is a horrible trade. Giannis has played 70 + games once in the last 6 years, and we all know BI's struggle with injuries.

The two of them probably barely play 50 games together, and lord only knows how the playoffs would work out.

Those picks absolutely need top 5-10 protections.

Lopez
Giannis
Middleton
Beasley
Lillard
No picks left

Poeltl
Giannis
Ingram
Agbaji or Dick or Walter
IQ
No picks left

Same type of injury concerns and very difficult to improve that roster.

I think that Bucks team was actually better lol. I dont see Masai putting this team in a potential hole they can’t get out of by giving up two young players and a boat load of first rounders. We would essentially turn into today’s Bucks if one player is injured. I think with Barnes, max he gives up are 3 first rounders with one at least being very far away. Masai would want to improve the roster around that core.

[Clutch0z24]

Agreed. But I also think Masai won't leave him himself unable to make other moves that he will need to make.

And Barnes is 23 with a ROTY and an All Star nod under his belt...something neither of those guys had.

Plus, Bridges was pumped and dumped by Brooklyn...everyone views that as an overpay by Knicks.

IMO, Giannis is only coming here if he chooses here. And at that point, some middle ground will be found....like a few years down the rd trading them extra 1st for Young+2nd...lol(kidding).

Yep i believe there is a chance we could outbid teams even if he doesn't just choose Toronto...I think Barnes/Dick or Barrett/Ochai/#9 +3 FRP and a pick swap is prolly a great offer league wide....I think only Spurs/Rockets could realistically match it...But if We don't add the pick package on top of the Prospects ...I think alot of teams can trump us...But yeah him choosing Toronto and only us is prolly not happening either as i think he would be fine in a place like New York, Brooklyn, Houston/Spurs....I think Giannis loves Wemby so i doubt he rejects going there to team with him...

But that's where "wanting to stay in the East" could help us.

Eliminates Rockets/Spurs.

Brooklyn doesn't give him a chance to win next year. Knicks would have to get very creative since they depleted their picks.

In the end, it's all guesswork. Going to be a fun offseason regardless.

Yep exaclty it will take him demanding the east and that is why what im trying to tell the posters who think we will get him in that scenario for peanuts why it prolly will not happen...Because at that point every team in the east is going to be throwing out some of their best offers....Even if Giannis makes a list....Cavs will offer Mitchell/Hunter, Celtics will offer Brown/White Knicks will offer OG/Bridges or KAT, Magic can offer Franz/Suggs + Picks....Yeah sure Giannis might not like some of them destinations but Bucks GM can still say "I sent you to a contender in the East"...

And that is where our draft picks come in....Sure we wouldn't want to give up our picks but it will be the only way we trump them player packages ^ that can potentially be offered...Which is why im saying we are prolly giving up Barnes and a draft pick package here...

If im wrong make Masai Prime minister if he gets Giannis for Barnes/Dick/9th pick and 1 pick thats top 10 protected..

[Raptorfan2012]

Would a Poeltl for Porzingis + 32nd pick make sense?

[rapz**7**]

Well this thread went downhill.

Might have got lost in the murk....but tripod's zion idea is by far the best one I've seen here:

Raps get Giannis

NO gets Barnes

Bucks get:

-Zion
-their two picks/swaps from NO back
-2 future NO picks
-3 raptor picks
-salary filler (including some prospects)

Everyone wins here.

Raps get zion without tearing apart the existing roster. Might even be able to keep #9.

Pelicans turn zion into scotty and it costs them 4 picks (scotty is probably worth 3 picks and getting rid of zion is worth at least one so it's a great move for them)

Bucks jump on the zion grenade but they get 7 picks including, and most importantly, their own so they can tank. They also get those swaps back. They also get a few pieces in the salary filler: Maybe something like 2 prospects and 2 role players who can also be flipped for second rounders.

Any straight up trade has a limit of 4 picks.....and here the bucks are getting 7 knowing full well that zion may never even suit up for them. They also get those swaps back, further enabling the tank. Of those 7 picks....at least 3 to 4 of them will be lottery picks. So it's not one of those "4 mid to late round pick" deals.

Everyone wins. The only thing left for the Raptors to do is sign fred vanvleet to a player/coach deal and replace Darko with him.

This might be the most reasonable post in this thread

[ConSarnit]

Yep i believe there is a chance we could outbid teams even if he doesn't just choose Toronto...I think Barnes/Dick or Barrett/Ochai/#9 +3 FRP and a pick swap is prolly a great offer league wide....I think only Spurs/Rockets could realistically match it...But if We don't add the pick package on top of the Prospects ...I think alot of teams can trump us...But yeah him choosing Toronto and only us is prolly not happening either as i think he would be fine in a place like New York, Brooklyn, Houston/Spurs....I think Giannis loves Wemby so i doubt he rejects going there to team with him...

But that's where "wanting to stay in the East" could help us.

Eliminates Rockets/Spurs.

Brooklyn doesn't give him a chance to win next year. Knicks would have to get very creative since they depleted their picks.

In the end, it's all guesswork. Going to be a fun offseason regardless.

Yep exaclty it will take him demanding the east and that is why what im trying to tell the posters who think we will get him in that scenario for peanuts why it prolly will not happen...Because at that point every team in the east is going to be throwing out some of their best offers....Even if Giannis makes a list....Cavs will offer Mitchell/Hunter, Celtics will offer Brown/White Knicks will offer OG/Bridges or KAT, Magic can offer Franz/Suggs + Picks....Yeah sure Giannis might not like some of them destinations but Bucks GM can still say "I sent you to a contender in the East"...

And that is where our draft picks come in....Sure we wouldn't want to give up our picks but it will be the only way we trump them player packages ^ that can potentially be offered...Which is why im saying we are prolly giving up Barnes and a draft pick package here...

If im wrong make Masai Prime minister if he gets Giannis for Barnes/Dick/9th pick and 1 pick thats top 10 protected..

This idea that we will get him for any type of discount is not based in reality. If he gets traded he will be the best player traded since Kareem. How many factors are working against us getting him and not having to give up everything?

-he’d have to say “Raptors or bust”. What are the odds of that? Less than 5%?

-even if we make the “list” that creates a bidding war because teams will know they can get an MVP level player and move heaven and earth to do so

-the trade market has gone crazy the past 5 years and prices have gone way up. AD said “Lakers or bust” and NOP still got a huge haul. KD said “PHX or bust” and BKN still got a huge haul. Now all of sudden Giannis (a better player) isn’t going to get a massive haul?

-GM’s are probably walking on egg shells not wanting to be the next Nico so they are going to try and extract maximum value

Everything points to the price for acquiring Giannis being massive. Even teams who were the ONLY option still had to pay huge prices for their star? Why would it be any different for us?