Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

yayotube · Post #1061 » by **yayotube** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:16 pm

I like Vesley's offensive game. But its his defense that scares me

Comeatme_Bro · Post #1062 » by **Comeatme_Bro** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:16 pm

MEDIC wrote:For those who haven't bothered to watch any tape of Vesely, here's his dunk highlights:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yrqgx494_o&feature=related[/youtube]

Meh

TiKusDom · Post #1063 » by **TiKusDom** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:26 pm

arbsn wrote:My biggest concerns for the draft are
Kanter vs Val
and
Kemba vs Knight

We are destined for one of these 4 guys....

As of now here is how I believe it stands

Kanter vs Val

Kanter will have far more of an impact from the start than Val. The NBA post is manned by power and strength, and Val does not have that . Will he in the future? Maybe, but in terms of having an NBA ready body that can man the post in the middle it is Kanter by a wide margin. He is built like an OX and has a very good basketball IQ. If I am picking between the two its Kanter by a very wide margin. Kanter's body is far more suited to make an impact in the NBA immediately than Valancunas's right now . Between the two its not even a question.

Kemba vs Knight

Its not even close for me. People can ride Kemba's leaderhsip and blah blah all they want. I know when I see an NBA player, and Kemba will not be an impact NBA player. He is no Isiah Thomas, He is no Chris Paul. He is not even a TJ ford with his passing. He is nowhere close to Iverson. The only thing I see Kemba doing is being a microwave scorer off the bench in the style of Vinny Johnson or Ben Gordon, and an undersized version of the two I might add. Does he have size? No. Does he have an NBA body? No. Does he have an elite shot? Not even close. Does he struggle against athletic defenders? Very much so. It is going to be a very hard transition for Kemba to the NBA. He might prove me wrong, but so far I see nothing in his game that tells me his transition to the NBA is going to go smoothly.

Knight on the other hand is a STUD. It didnt take him 3 years to become an impact player. He did it as soon as he got into the NCAA. He didint need 3 years of development to become a dominant force in the NCAA, he did it straight out of highschool. Knight isnt undersized, he has excellent size and athleticism for the PG position. He already has a fantastic jump shot and can hit the J from anywhere on the court. People can harp on his passing all they want, but thats something he can improve , and turnovers are a result of his body moving 10 times faster than his brain. It will come with experience. The potential of Knight is tantalizing and he is going to be a STUD in the NBA. People bashing Knight are going to be eating their words when he steps out on the NBA floor. He is naturally more gifted than Kemba Walker in every way , and his style of play and physical build is far more suited for the NBA than Kemba. Period. Combine that with his great work ethic and desire to get better and coachability , its over. The usual band wagoners are too blind with the Kemba love parade, but when you break down their games and compare it to the standard in the NBA at their position, Knight is ahead in every category.

MinnyMo · Post #1064 » by **MinnyMo** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:29 pm

MEDIC wrote:
MinnyMo wrote:
sunny wrote:I recommend some of you guys watch the interview:
http://www.arizonawildcats.com/allaccess/?media=242541

he is such a unique, humble and great individual.

I don't think theres any point to hyping up williams any more on this board, its pretty much unanimous that we would pick irving 1st, the Williams 2nd, if we had the choice. However the board seems split on several players Kanter/Val/Biyombo/Knight and to a lesser extent Walker.

I think we should draft the BPA. There is no consensus #1 pick.

If Williams proves to be a better NBA prospect than Irving, I have no problem with the Raptors selecting him.

It's not like Irving is at the level of a Shaq or a LBJ (Franchise changing player). There are still some questions about what level of player he'll be in the NBA (might not be an allstar, let alone a superstar).

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Derrick Williams becomes the first allstar from this draft & the best player to come from it.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Williams went #1 overall.

It's just that PG prospects such as Irving are so rare while talented SF's are a dime a dozen, I mean there are at least 8 very good SF propsects that could go in the lottery in 2012, just tank for one of them.

sunny · Post #1065 » by **sunny** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:32 pm

MinnyMo wrote:
sunny wrote:I recommend some of you guys watch the interview:
http://www.arizonawildcats.com/allaccess/?media=242541

he is such a unique, humble and great individual.

I don't think theres any point to hyping up williams any more on this board, its pretty much unanimous that we would pick irving 1st, the Williams 2nd, if we had the choice. However the board seems split on several players Kanter/Val/Biyombo/Knight and to a lesser extent Walker.

The GM of the raptors does not read posts here. In fact, I'm not even advocating that the raptors draft Derrick Williams. I was merely posting information about him, so for those who wish to be edified about him, can.

Dr Positivity · Post #1066 » by **Dr Positivity** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:36 pm

I agree with TikusDom. Kanter/Knight over Val/Kemba is a non question to me. I want nothing to do with Val and Kemba, I expect them to go down like Jordan Hill and Jonny Flynn in 09 as the sucker picks as the draft

MEDIC · Post #1067 » by **MEDIC** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:37 pm

TiKusDom wrote:When you break down their games and compare it to the standard in the NBA at their position, Knight is ahead in every category.

I would say Kemba is ahead of Knight at this stage in the following categories:

- Playmaking/ passing/ court vision
- Ball handling
- Ability to get in the paint while maintaining the dribble
- Speed/ first step
- Energy/ leadership
- Ability to draw & kick

Their jumpshots pretty much cancel one another out (inconsistent). Their finishing ability at the rim cancel each other out as well (both need work).

Kinght has him on the defensive end, that's it.

The athletic, defensive oriented PG that all the draft experts here wanted last draft was Avery Bradley. Dude dropped pretty far in the draft. Did he even play in the league this season? Oh yeah.....he played 31 games & averaged 1.7ppg over 5mpg.

I'm not saying that Knight will be as bad as Bradley, but a PG has to have PG skills.

sunny · Post #1068 » by **sunny** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:42 pm

Jerryd Bayless
Jerryd Bayless
Jerryd Bayless

EDIT: I'm sorry - I dont usually like to post things without willing to debate them.
But it's redundant IMO to argue between Kemba and Knight when we have the better prospect in Bayless already on our team.

Reef · Post #1069 » by **Reef** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:44 pm

MEDIC wrote:
TiKusDom wrote:When you break down their games and compare it to the standard in the NBA at their position, Knight is ahead in every category.

I would say Kemba is ahead of Knight at this stage in the following categories:

- Playmaking/ passing/ court vision
- Ball handling
- Ability to get in the paint while maintaining the dribble
- Speed/ first step
- Energy/ leadership
- Ability to draw & kick

Their jumpshots pretty much cancel one another out (inconsistent). Their finishing ability at the rim cancel each other out as well (both need work).

Kinght has him on the defensive end, that's it.

Medic,

Don't bother arguing with that guy. He's the biggest Knight nuthugger. He was going on and on about how Knight leading Kentucky into the tourney meant that he's the best, yet Kemba did a better job of that.

If it was up to him, he'd probably take Knight over Irving.

MEDIC · Post #1070 » by **MEDIC** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:45 pm

sunny wrote:Jerryd Bayless
Jerryd Bayless
Jerryd Bayless

EDIT: I'm sorry - I dont usually like to post things without willing to debate them.
But it's redundant IMO to argue between Kemba and Knight when we have the better prospect in Bayless already on our team.

Bingo.

There is no need to draft either player, so it's a useless debate (unless we get another pick in the 7-10 range).

TiKusDom · Post #1071 » by **TiKusDom** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:49 pm

MEDIC wrote:
I would say Kemba is ahead of Knight at this stage in the following categories:

- Playmaking/ passing/ court vision
- Ball handling
- Ability to get in the paint while maintaining the dribble
- Speed/ first step
- Energy/ leadership
- Ability to draw & kick

Their jumpshots pretty much cancel one another out (inconsistent). Their finishing ability at the rim cancel each other out as well (both need work).

Kinght has him on the defensive end, that's it.

Oh rly.

Size/ Athleticism - Knight
Defense - Knight
Leadership? really? how do you plan on measuring that. I say Knight is a better leader than Kemba at his age.
Potential- Knight by FAR.
Shooting - Knight. Knight in his freshman season shot 38 % from the 3 , Walker shot 33 % as a career high from the 3 after 3 years in college to develop his shot. Its not even close.
Development curve - Knight. What Brandon Knight did in his first year in college at the age of 18 Walker could have only dreamed of doing when he was a freshman.

Brandon Knight's development has been exponentially better compared to Kemba Walkers at the same age. Its not even close. Compare their freshman seasons. yeah a guy who has an extra two years in college is going to be better at some things than a freshman, except the difference that it took Kemba Walker an extra 2 years to get anywhere close to the same level as Knight. If you compare the development of the 2 at the same age, Knight blows Kemba out of the water. How good do you think Knight would be if he had an extra 2 years to develop his game ? Between the two, everything that Knight has accomplished tells me he is going to make a far better pro than Walker.

MEDIC · Post #1072 » by **MEDIC** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:54 pm

^ Again, it doesn't really matter to me unless we get a 2nd pick later in the draft, or trade down.

If we did end up with Knight, I hope he proves me wrong, but I'm just calling it like I see it right now.

Reef · Post #1073 » by **Reef** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:58 pm

TiKusDom wrote:
MEDIC wrote:
I would say Kemba is ahead of Knight at this stage in the following categories:

- Playmaking/ passing/ court vision
- Ball handling
- Ability to get in the paint while maintaining the dribble
- Speed/ first step
- Energy/ leadership
- Ability to draw & kick

Their jumpshots pretty much cancel one another out (inconsistent). Their finishing ability at the rim cancel each other out as well (both need work).

Kinght has him on the defensive end, that's it.

Oh rly.

Size/ Athleticism - Knight
Defense - Knight
Leadership? really? how do you plan on measuring that. I say Knight is a better leader than Kemba at his age.
Potential- Knight by FAR.
Shooting - Knight. Knight in his freshman season shot 38 % from the 3 , Walker shot 33 % as a career high from the 3 after 3 years in college to develop his shot. Its not even close.
Development curve - Knight. What Brandon Knight did in his first year in college at the age of 18 Walker could have only dreamed of doing when he was a freshman.

Brandon Knight's development has been exponentially better compared to Kemba Walkers at the same age. Its not even close. Compare their freshman seasons. yeah a guy who has an extra two years in college is going to be better at some things than a freshman, except the difference that it took Kemba Walker an extra 2 years to get anywhere close to the same level as Knight. If you compare the development of the 2 at the same age, Knight blows Kemba out of the water. How good do you think Knight would be if he had an extra 2 years to develop his game ? Between the two, everything that Knight has accomplished tells me he is going to make a far better pro than Walker.

Kemba's more athletic/explosive/quicker, a better passer, ballhandler, and leader (he had much less talent to work with and took them all the way to the championship, not the semis).

TiKusDom · Post #1074 » by **TiKusDom** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:03 am

Reef wrote:

Kemba's more athletic/explosive/quicker, a better passer, ballhandler, and leader (he had much less talent to work with and took them all the way to the championship, not the semis).

More athletic? Wrong. Knight is longer, taller, and laterally quicker. Knight is a better defender, while being 2 years younger. Knight is the better leader. Oh guess what Knight had 2 less years to develop his game, and lead his team his team to the semis while Walker as a freshman did... oh yeah ride the pine . While Walker had 3 years to refine his game, almost lost to a freshman who just came out of highschool and has never been to the NCAA tournament in his life.

Reef · Post #1075 » by **Reef** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:19 am

TiKusDom wrote:
Reef wrote:

Kemba's more athletic/explosive/quicker, a better passer, ballhandler, and leader (he had much less talent to work with and took them all the way to the championship, not the semis).

More athletic? Wrong. Knight is longer, taller, and laterally quicker. Knight is a better defender, while being 2 years younger. Knight is the better leader. Oh guess what Knight had 2 less years to develop his game, and lead his team his team to the semis while Walker as a freshman did... oh yeah ride the pine . While Walker had 3 years to refine his game, almost lost to a freshman who just came out of highschool and has never been to the NCAA tournament in his life.

Wrong again. Knight's quicker, more explosive, has elite lateral quickness. Knight couldn't get by him when Kemba was covering him.

Right now Kemba is the better leader. We don't know how Knight will develop in the future. Stop making so many assumptions. It's not even debateable. You put Knight on that UConn team and they wouldn't get that far. You put Kemba on Kentucky and they'd probably win the whole thing. Kemba only had Lamb to help on offense. Knight had Jones, Liggins, Harrelson, and Lamb.

raps_aviator · Post #1076 » by **raps_aviator** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:24 am

why are we talking about knight and kemba?
We need to fill our SF and C position.
I actually think Derrick Williams and Bargnani are complementary to each other.
Offensively bargs could play 3 while williams plays 4 and vice versa defensively

Is Derrick Williams more like a poor mans Carmelo or Jeff Green?

TiKusDom · Post #1077 » by **TiKusDom** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:27 am

Reef wrote:

Wrong again. Knight's quicker, more explosive, has elite lateral quickness. Knight couldn't get by him when Kemba was covering him.

Right now Kemba is the better leader. We don't know how Knight will develop in the future. Stop making so many assumptions. It's not even debateable. You put Knight on that UConn team and they wouldn't get that far. You put Kemba on Kentucky and they'd probably win the whole thing. Kemba only had Lamb to help on offense. Knight had Jones, Liggins, Harrelson, and Lamb.

Wrong. Knight is by far better defensively, and is better able to keep up with offensive players with his lateral quicks on D. Oh really Kemba is the better leader, I could really tell, especially from his freshman days riding the pine and cheerleading from the sidelines. Prove to me he is a better leader. Do you have some quantitative proof for this? Knight is by far a better leader at the age of 18 than Kemba could have dreamed of being as a freshman. You might not know how Knight will develop in the future, but based on his freshman statistics compared to Knights, he sure is developing a helluva lot faster than Kemba Walker ever did.

Kemba the freshman
2008-2009 CONN 25.2 8.9 3.5 2.9 1.8 1.58 1.1 .2 1.6 .470 .715 .271 1.37

Knight the freshman
010-2011 UK 35.9 17.3 4.0 4.2 3.2 1.33 .7 .2 2.2 .423 .795 .377 1.28

yeah at this point id say Knight by FAR. Yeah you put Knight on UCONN he probably wins the whole thing himself , as a freshman, you put Kemba on KY he wins the championship? You sure about that? Who is making assumptions now.

Reef · Post #1078 » by **Reef** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:33 am

TiKusDom wrote:
Reef wrote:

Wrong again. Knight's quicker, more explosive, has elite lateral quickness. Knight couldn't get by him when Kemba was covering him.

Right now Kemba is the better leader. We don't know how Knight will develop in the future. Stop making so many assumptions. It's not even debateable. You put Knight on that UConn team and they wouldn't get that far. You put Kemba on Kentucky and they'd probably win the whole thing. Kemba only had Lamb to help on offense. Knight had Jones, Liggins, Harrelson, and Lamb.

Wrong. Knight is by far better defensively, and is better able to keep up with offensive players with his lateral quicks on D. Oh really Kemba is the better leader, I could really tell, especially from his freshman days riding the pine and cheerleading from the sidelines. Prove to me he is a better leader. Do you have some quantitative proof for this? Knight is by far a better leader at the age of 18 than Kemba could have dreamed of being as a freshman. You might not know how Knight will develop in the future, but based on his freshman statistics compared to Knights, he sure is developing a helluva lot faster than Kemba Walker ever did.

Kemba the freshman
2008-2009 CONN 25.2 8.9 3.5 2.9 1.8 1.58 1.1 .2 1.6 .470 .715 .271 1.37

Knight the freshman
010-2011 UK 35.9 17.3 4.0 4.2 3.2 1.33 .7 .2 2.2 .423 .795 .377 1.28

yeah at this point id say Knight by FAR. Yeah you put Knight on UCONN he probably wins the whole thing himself , as a freshman, you put Kemba on KY he wins the championship? You sure about that? Who is making assumptions now.

Are you illiterate? I'm not comparing them as freshmen. I said Kemba is the better leader now. Why the hell do I care about his leadership as a freshman?

Tell me what makes Knight such a good leader. Is it because he took his team to the semi's? If that's your criteria, then Kemba is better. If that's not your criteria, then explain it to me.

You seriously think Knight on UConn instead of Kemba would win it all? You're delusional.

wanker · Post #1079 » by **wanker** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:36 am

MEDIC wrote:
The athletic, defensive oriented PG that all the draft experts here wanted last draft was Avery Bradley. Dude dropped pretty far in the draft. Did he even play in the league this season? Oh yeah.....he played 31 games & averaged 1.7ppg over 5mpg.

I'm not saying that Knight will be as bad as Bradley, but a PG has to have PG skills.

Bradley was injured at the beginning of the season and didn't see much time due to being a raw rookie on a contending team with depth. I don't see how this equates to him being "bad." The only game in which he saw more than ten minutes of play was the last game of the season, when he scored 20 (10 of 16) in 27 minutes. He is no doubt raw, but he will undoubtedly become a productive pg in the league. If I have a choice between Walker or Bradley, I am taking Bradley every time. While Knight is a better prospect than Bradley (as Knight is a much more dynamic scorer), I don't see how being roughly comparable to Bradley is a bad thing.

Rude Boy 1 · Post #1080 » by **Rude Boy 1** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:37 am

No question about it Kemba is head and shoulders the better leader. As far as who is the better prospect? combine may solve that.

Right now Kemba has the intangible edge Knight has the upside edge. I like them both though I don't think either of them scream NBA allstar... This draft sucks ass these debates over middling players is useless.