The One And Only Offseason Thread 4

[JDLAW]

We need to start lowering the offer weekly. If he is that stupid to take the QO, which is so low because of missing so many games, then who needs another moron on the team?

I understand the anger here, but this is not a very good negotiating tactic. The Suns need to continue to high road and leave things as they are. There are only a few misguided media types who align themselves with Bledsoe and even then they acknowledge that the Suns' offer is a reasonable market based offer for this accomplishments.

Taking $$ off the table will make the Suns appear to be bullies. Do not what this.

Why is my comment thought of as "angry"?

I'm not angry, I just think if we lowered the deal slightly, every week, it will cause this to come to a close. I really don't think it makes us look like bullies. I think a 4/$46 offer is still fair for a guy that only played a half of a season, and put up less than a player on the squad making almost half his starting salary.

I just don't think adding any money would go over well for future negotiations.

Your post is not angry. The action proposed comes off that way and comes off a bullying when the other side is boxed in. I have been in many negotiations and under these circumstances, this tactic is viewed as confrontational and bullying and is used when the sides are angry.

Like it or not, if Bledsoe is to remain with the Suns, he needs to be brought back into the fold (team and community) and needs to feel as though he has accomplished something with this failed (from his part) negotiation.

[RunDogGun]

But we can't add more money to the deal for it will set an example of how other RFA can get things done their way. We have both Morris brothers coming up, and then rookie contracts from there. We offered a fair deal as a starting point, it wasn't a lowball offer.

I don't see why we can't put a limit on that offer, without it appearing a bully tactic.

[bigfoot]

I understand the anger here, but this is not a very good negotiating tactic. The Suns need to continue to high road and leave things as they are. There are only a few misguided media types who align themselves with Bledsoe and even then they acknowledge that the Suns' offer is a reasonable market based offer for this accomplishments.

Taking $$ off the table will make the Suns appear to be bullies. Do not what this.

Why is my comment thought of as "angry"?

I'm not angry, I just think if we lowered the deal slightly, every week, it will cause this to come to a close. I really don't think it makes us look like bullies. I think a 4/$46 offer is still fair for a guy that only played a half of a season, and put up less than a player on the squad making almost half his starting salary.

I just don't think adding any money would go over well for future negotiations.

Your post is not angry. The action proposed comes off that way and comes off a bullying when the other side is boxed in. I have been in many negotiations and under these circumstances, this tactic is viewed as confrontational and bullying and is used when the sides are angry.

Like it or not, if Bledsoe is to remain with the Suns, he needs to be brought back into the fold (team and community) and needs to feel as though he has accomplished something with this failed (from his part) negotiation.

I agree. This needs to be a win-win situation for both the Suns and Bledsoe. Employees need to feel valued and employers need great employees. Both sides need to step away from ridiculous demands and meet somewhere in the middle.

[bwgood77]

I wonder what the biggest contract anyone has gotten on a second contract when they hadn't even started at least half a season.

Harden signed a 5-year max extension with the Rockets after starting just 7 games in 3 years. T-Mac, a backup in Toronto, signed a $68M contract with the Magic.

Yeah, Harden should have been an obvious one I should have thought of, however he basically played starter level minutes his last year in OKC, and was on the floor over half of the time per game the year before that. And of course his max didn't even kick in until after a year of starting in Houston, which was definitely anticipated.

But in literal terms, obviously he fits the criteria.

T-Mac I guess didn't start in Toronto until after the midway point in his third season.

Good examples. I guess the question is, is he the same level of player those guys were when they got their extensions?

[spanishninja]

I wonder what the biggest contract anyone has gotten on a second contract when they hadn't even started at least half a season.

Harden signed a 5-year max extension with the Rockets after starting just 7 games in 3 years. T-Mac, a backup in Toronto, signed a $68M contract with the Magic.

Yeah, Harden should have been an obvious one I should have thought of, however he basically played starter level minutes his last year in OKC, and was on the floor over half of the time per game the year before that. And of course his max didn't even kick in until after a year of starting in Houston, which was definitely anticipated.

But in literal terms, obviously he fits the criteria.

T-Mac I guess didn't start in Toronto until after the midway point in his third season.

Good examples. I guess the question is, is he the same level of player those guys were when they got their extensions?

Yeah, remember that year just prior to him getting traded to Houston, he scored 40 on us during a game in march or april. And he shot 50/40/85 that season while averaging 17 points a game. Bledsoe's not approached anything close to that.

[bwgood77]

Why is my comment thought of as "angry"?

I'm not angry, I just think if we lowered the deal slightly, every week, it will cause this to come to a close. I really don't think it makes us look like bullies. I think a 4/$46 offer is still fair for a guy that only played a half of a season, and put up less than a player on the squad making almost half his starting salary.

I just don't think adding any money would go over well for future negotiations.

Your post is not angry. The action proposed comes off that way and comes off a bullying when the other side is boxed in. I have been in many negotiations and under these circumstances, this tactic is viewed as confrontational and bullying and is used when the sides are angry.

Like it or not, if Bledsoe is to remain with the Suns, he needs to be brought back into the fold (team and community) and needs to feel as though he has accomplished something with this failed (from his part) negotiation.

I agree. This needs to be a win-win situation for both the Suns and Bledsoe. Employees need to feel valued and employers need great employees. Both sides need to step away from ridiculous demands and meet somewhere in the middle.

In what way is the Suns side a ridiculous demand? $12 million a year isn't ridiculous on the low side whatsoever.

[thamadkant]

Dragic as a max contract is giving me headaches.

If he puts up another 20/6 season with amazing percentages and impact.... I'll bite.

But to me until then, if I was GM, I'm penciling a contract similar to Lowry... 12-13 Million a season.

[Suns Court 23]

Your post is not angry. The action proposed comes off that way and comes off a bullying when the other side is boxed in. I have been in many negotiations and under these circumstances, this tactic is viewed as confrontational and bullying and is used when the sides are angry.

Like it or not, if Bledsoe is to remain with the Suns, he needs to be brought back into the fold (team and community) and needs to feel as though he has accomplished something with this failed (from his part) negotiation.

I agree. This needs to be a win-win situation for both the Suns and Bledsoe. Employees need to feel valued and employers need great employees. Both sides need to step away from ridiculous demands and meet somewhere in the middle.

In what way is the Suns side a ridiculous demand? $12 million a year isn't ridiculous on the low side whatsoever.

But Bledsoe may complain at 12 a year. We want him for 12 and he thinks he is worth 16 so we basically should meet in the middle so everyone is happy. It might be 13 or 14 but shouldn't be any higher.

[RunDogGun]

Yep, I think if we raise our offer, it will just show other RFA that if you hold out, we will blink first. Moreover, the lesson from our side would be to not offer a fair deal, always lowball your players to allow room to move.

Bledsoe needs to suck it up (I'm guessing his agent not Bledsoe himself) and take the fair offer, that the market set, not us. Or take the QO, and take the huge risk of getting injured and/or falling behind both Goran and IT in the rotation, killing possible future contracts. If he takes the QO, I just picture Peitrus and Barnes like futures after they took the QOs from GS.

I'm glad I'm not a player on the Suns right now. I'd be giving an earful to both Bledsoe and PJ right now.

[Suns Court 23]

Dragic as a max contract is giving me headaches.

If he puts up another 20/6 season with amazing percentages and impact.... I'll bite.

But to me until then, if I was GM, I'm penciling a contract similar to Lowry... 12-13 Million a season.

I don't think there is someone that thinks he is legitimately worth MAX unless he puts up at least the numbers he had last season. I hope he is back at 12 a year.

[RunDogGun]

I agree. This needs to be a win-win situation for both the Suns and Bledsoe. Employees need to feel valued and employers need great employees. Both sides need to step away from ridiculous demands and meet somewhere in the middle.

In what way is the Suns side a ridiculous demand? $12 million a year isn't ridiculous on the low side whatsoever.

But Bledsoe may complain at 12 a year. We want him for 12 and he thinks he is worth 16 so we basically should meet in the middle so everyone is happy. It might be 13 or 14 but shouldn't be any higher.

Why would be at $16? Too easy to point out that he missed half of the season for a previous injury. A knee injury for a guy that lives off of his athleticism, has to play a part in this. We balked at Amare and his knees and that turned out to be the right move.

What if he thinks he is a $20 million player? 4/$48 is more than fair. No need to budge off that. Again I don't mind adding bonuses to that to make it seem like a possible 4/$52 deal or even better, but they would have to be achievement bonuses or 70+ game production bonuses.

[bwgood77]

I agree. This needs to be a win-win situation for both the Suns and Bledsoe. Employees need to feel valued and employers need great employees. Both sides need to step away from ridiculous demands and meet somewhere in the middle.

In what way is the Suns side a ridiculous demand? $12 million a year isn't ridiculous on the low side whatsoever.

But Bledsoe may complain at 12 a year. We want him for 12 and he thinks he is worth 16 so we basically should meet in the middle so everyone is happy. It might be 13 or 14 but shouldn't be any higher.

Suns can't budge first though. If Bledsoe's camp says they will do 4/52, I'd think about accepting if I were the Suns. But our FO can't move up to that number, because Bledsoe's camp could say nope, and then we are stuck there without a deal. They need to move down to something our FO live with, not the other way around.

[Suns Court 23]

In what way is the Suns side a ridiculous demand? $12 million a year isn't ridiculous on the low side whatsoever.

But Bledsoe may complain at 12 a year. We want him for 12 and he thinks he is worth 16 so we basically should meet in the middle so everyone is happy. It might be 13 or 14 but shouldn't be any higher.

Why would be at $16? Too easy to point out that he missed half of the season for a previous injury.[b] A knee injury for a guy that lives off of his athleticism, has to play a part in this.[/b] We balked at Amare and his knees and that turned out to be the right move.
Agreed to some extent but if he is not happy at 12 then its no good to have him here.
What if he thinks he is a $20 million player? 4/$48 is more than fair. No need to budge off that. Again I don't mind adding bonuses to that to make it seem like a possible 4/$52 deal or even better, but they would have to be achievement bonuses or 70+ game production bonuses.

[JTrain]

There is good chance Bledsoe's contract sets the bar for Dragic's, which is why Bledsoe's is doubly important. If Bledsoe signs for 12, Dragic will probably not fuss about getting in the 12-13 range. If Bledsoe signs for 15, Dragic will want at least that if not closer to his max. That's an extra 6-8 million that could be necessary for us adding another important piece to take us from low seed to contender.

[Suns Court 23]

In what way is the Suns side a ridiculous demand? $12 million a year isn't ridiculous on the low side whatsoever.

But Bledsoe may complain at 12 a year. We want him for 12 and he thinks he is worth 16 so we basically should meet in the middle so everyone is happy. It might be 13 or 14 but shouldn't be any higher.

Why would be at $16? Too easy to point out that he missed half of the season for a previous injury.[b] A knee injury for a guy that lives off of his athleticism, has to play a part in this.[/b] We balked at Amare and his knees and that turned out to be the right move.

What if he thinks he is a $20 million player? 4/$48 is more than fair. No need to budge off that. Again I don't mind adding bonuses to that to make it seem like a possible 4/$52 deal or even better, but they would have to be achievement bonuses or 70+ game production bonuses.

agreed but if he is not happy at 12 then it doesn't matter for him being here.

[RunDogGun]

But Bledsoe may complain at 12 a year. We want him for 12 and he thinks he is worth 16 so we basically should meet in the middle so everyone is happy. It might be 13 or 14 but shouldn't be any higher.

Why would be at $16? Too easy to point out that he missed half of the season for a previous injury.[b] A knee injury for a guy that lives off of his athleticism, has to play a part in this.[/b] We balked at Amare and his knees and that turned out to be the right move.

What if he thinks he is a $20 million player? 4/$48 is more than fair. No need to budge off that. Again I don't mind adding bonuses to that to make it seem like a possible 4/$52 deal or even better, but they would have to be achievement bonuses or 70+ game production bonuses.

agreed but if he is not happy at 12 then it doesn't matter for him being here.

Then he has the risky option of taking the QO, and we focus on guys that want to be here and advance us. It seems pretty simple. Add bonuses, or make the last two seasons guaranteed if 80% of the games are played. Other than that, there really seems to be no reason to move from our higher ground. Too much is riding on this contract for our future contracts.

[JTrain]

Does anyone know the biggest contract (annually) that an NBA player who has never had an 800 point season has signed? I'm genuinely curious and I imagine $12M is at or very near the top.

[tgtm_24]

When Max contracts are signed no one ever thinks said player is worthy of it. I'd offer Dragic the max if he produced this season. Build a culture of looking after our own. That will make Phoenix a popular destination.

[BurningHeart]

http://www.csnnw.com/nba/sources-suns-r ... rreparable

According to league sources, an “ominous development” has arisen with sides still “very far apart” in contract negotiations. It has even escalated to the point where the “relationship is on the express lane to being ruined,” a source with knowledge of the situation informed CSNNW.com.

The Suns offered Bledsoe a four-year, $48 million deal with declining salaries each year, two sources said. That proposal was quickly turned down. Bledsoe’s camp is putting a max price tag on the player Suns Head Coach Jeff Hornacek called “a Top-10 player in the NBA in coming years”, another source said.

Phoenix has made it known publicly and repeatedly that they intend to match any offer sheets competitors issue out to Bledsoe. This tactic has succeeded in scaring away any potential suitors so far. However, the effort by the Suns to undermine Bledsoe’s market is what has angered Bledsoe and his reps and led to a standoff in which the relationship is now on the verge of being irreparable, we’re told.

**** this guy.

[spanishninja]

the website posting that story got me thinking: would a Lillard for Bledsoe trade work?