Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?)

[Commodor]

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The potential return here will be fascinating, particularly if Kuminga balls out in Vegas.

[tarantism]

Just for fun, I was kicking the tires on getting in on a Miami/KD trade and try to swoop Bam.

To Miami: Seth Curry, KD, Looney (S&T)

To Brooklyn: Duncan Robinson, Herro, Wiseman, Kuminga

To GSW: Bam

Curry, Klay, Wigs, Dray, Bam w/ JP, Moody, GPII, OPJ and whatever vet ring chasers want to join up.

For Brooklyn, they get three young high ceiling guys to rebuild since they don't have any draft picks.

Miami obviously gets KD to pair with Butler, and they replace Bam with another switchy defender (and elite rebounder).

Obviously won't happen. I am also a big Kuminga and Wiseman believer...but Bam is also only 24 and our defense with him and Dray would be INSANE. Bam is also a pretty good playmaker for a big and would fit seamlessly into our split action and DHO game.

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[donkeylips]

i think brooklyn would just cut out the warriors and just keep herro and bam.

[tarantism]

i think brooklyn would just cut out the warriors and just keep herro and bam.

They can't acquire Bam because of the Ben Simmons trade.

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[hamncheese]

i think brooklyn would just cut out the warriors and just keep herro and bam.

They can't acquire Bam because of the Ben Simmons trade.

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I think that unless the Warriors send out Wiggins, they can't acquire Bam for the same reason. Wiggins is also on a max deal after a rookie contract and acquired by trade like Simmons. It also means that any past suggestions of acquiring Simmons and keeping Wiggs couldn't have happened.

Also, Phoenix couldn't send Booker to Brooklyn for KD even if they wanted to for that reason.

[tarantism]

i think brooklyn would just cut out the warriors and just keep herro and bam.

They can't acquire Bam because of the Ben Simmons trade.

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I think that unless the Warriors send out Wiggins, they can't acquire Bam for the same reason. Wiggins is also on a max deal after a rookie contract and acquired by trade like Simmons. It also means that any past suggestions of acquiring Simmons and keeping Wiggs couldn't have happened.

Also, Phoenix couldn't send Booker to Brooklyn for KD even if they wanted to for that reason.

Oh dang. Never thought of that!

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[Commodor]

They can't acquire Bam because of the Ben Simmons trade.

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I think that unless the Warriors send out Wiggins, they can't acquire Bam for the same reason. Wiggins is also on a max deal after a rookie contract and acquired by trade like Simmons. It also means that any past suggestions of acquiring Simmons and keeping Wiggs couldn't have happened.

Also, Phoenix couldn't send Booker to Brooklyn for KD even if they wanted to for that reason.

Oh dang. Never thought of that!

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If they extend Wiggins doesn’t that nullify this?

[lars_rosenberg]

I think that unless the Warriors send out Wiggins, they can't acquire Bam for the same reason. Wiggins is also on a max deal after a rookie contract and acquired by trade like Simmons. It also means that any past suggestions of acquiring Simmons and keeping Wiggs couldn't have happened.

Also, Phoenix couldn't send Booker to Brooklyn for KD even if they wanted to for that reason.

Oh dang. Never thought of that!

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If they extend Wiggins doesn’t that nullify this?

Only when the extension kicks in, so from next season.

[ILOVEIT]

i think brooklyn would just cut out the warriors and just keep herro and bam.

They can't acquire Bam because of the Ben Simmons trade.

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I think that unless the Warriors send out Wiggins, they can't acquire Bam for the same reason. Wiggins is also on a max deal after a rookie contract and acquired by trade like Simmons. It also means that any past suggestions of acquiring Simmons and keeping Wiggs couldn't have happened.

Also, Phoenix couldn't send Booker to Brooklyn for KD even if they wanted to for that reason.

There is bzzzz about Toronto and Durant.
But what if it's just because Wiggins would be a perfect fit in Toronto and Wiggins needs to be included in any kind of 3-way deal for Durant and Warriors?

All the talk about Miami and Suns yet neither has the trade assets to trade AND remain viable championship team with Durant.

Something is tell me that Draymond, Durant and the rest of the Warriors would love to give the league a big FU after winning a chip wihtout Durant....and bring him back.

[xdrta+]

Something is tell me that Draymond, Durant and the rest of the Warriors would love to give the league a big FU after winning a chip wihtout Durant....and bring him back.

I have faith in the FO that they're smarter than to gut the team and mortgage the future for a 34 yr old, injury-prone Durant, no matter what the silly players want.

[Commodor]

Something is tell me that Draymond, Durant and the rest of the Warriors would love to give the league a big FU after winning a chip wihtout Durant....and bring him back.

I have faith in the FO that they're smarter than to gut the team and mortgage the future for a 34 yr old, injury-prone Durant, no matter what the silly players want.

You’re assuming the warriors have to gut the team to be the highest bid.

Wiggins+Poole+draft picks beats out a lot of the offers other contenders can muster. It’s probably in Brooklyn’s best interest to move Simmons and not risk another temper tantrum and roll with Wiggins.

If they can keep 2 of kuminga-wiseman-moody sign me up. Wiggins is awesome but I’m not rejecting away 2-3 more years of elite KD for him. Poole is a great story but he’s shown little on the defensive end. There’s plenty of small scoring guards to be had and quite frankly I’m more excited to see what Moody can do.

[The-Power]

Poole is a great story but he’s shown little on the defensive end. There’s plenty of small scoring guards to be had and quite frankly I’m more excited to see what Moody can do.

How many of them are 6'4'', in their early 20s, have shown rapid development, are known to have an incredible work ethic, have the ability to create for others, and proven to be able to score at elite efficiency in the playoffs?

I genuinely don't understand how some Warriors fans can watch and look at Poole and come away with such conclusions. Poole is by far the safest bet to become an All-Star among all our young players, and our best bet to have a primary offensive option post-Steph.

He's not just ‘a nice story’, he's a building block for the future. Just for illustration purposes: compare Poole's and LaVine's 3rd year in the league. Poole was simply better, and LaVine is a max player now.

[DevinVassell]

Poole is a great story but he’s shown little on the defensive end. There’s plenty of small scoring guards to be had and quite frankly I’m more excited to see what Moody can do.

How many of them are 6'4'', in their early 20s, have shown rapid development, are known to have an incredible work ethic, have the ability to create for others, and proven to be able to score at elite efficiency in the playoffs?

I genuinely don't understand how some Warriors fans can watch and look at Poole and come away with such conclusions. Poole is by far the safest bet to become an All-Star among all our young players, and our best bet to have a primary offensive option post-Steph.

He's not just ‘a nice story’, he's a building block for the future. Just for illustration purposes: compare Poole's and LaVine's 3rd year in the league. Poole was simply better, and LaVine is a max player now.

Lol yep, being more excited about Moody than Poole is just silly. A godsend at 28 and the future beyond Steph. Watch him get even better.

[Commodor]

Poole is a great story but he’s shown little on the defensive end. There’s plenty of small scoring guards to be had and quite frankly I’m more excited to see what Moody can do.

How many of them are 6'4'', in their early 20s, have shown rapid development, are known to have an incredible work ethic, have the ability to create for others, and proven to be able to score at elite efficiency in the playoffs?

I genuinely don't understand how some Warriors fans can watch and look at Poole and come away with such conclusions. Poole is by far the safest bet to become an All-Star among all our young players, and our best bet to have a primary offensive option post-Steph.

He's not just ‘a nice story’, he's a building block for the future. Just for illustration purposes: compare Poole's and LaVine's 3rd year in the league. Poole was simply better, and LaVine is a max player now.

Lol yep, being more excited about Moody than Poole is just silly. A godsend at 28 and the future beyond Steph. Watch him get even better.

Lol a godsend really? He had a great start to the playoffs and then progressively leveled off series by series. When his shot wasn’t falling he was varying degrees of bad to unplayable. He had an absolutely turnstile defense for large parts of the playoffs.

I like Jordan Poole a lot and have no problem if we keep him and build around but acting like he is the second coming of Curry is crazy.

[Commodor]

Poole is a great story but he’s shown little on the defensive end. There’s plenty of small scoring guards to be had and quite frankly I’m more excited to see what Moody can do.

How many of them are 6'4'', in their early 20s, have shown rapid development, are known to have an incredible work ethic, have the ability to create for others, and proven to be able to score at elite efficiency in the playoffs?

I genuinely don't understand how some Warriors fans can watch and look at Poole and come away with such conclusions. Poole is by far the safest bet to become an All-Star among all our young players, and our best bet to have a primary offensive option post-Steph.

He's not just ‘a nice story’, he's a building block for the future. Just for illustration purposes: compare Poole's and LaVine's 3rd year in the league. Poole was simply better, and LaVine is a max player now.

Lavine tore his ACL roughly half way through his 3rd season so not exactly the perfect comp there. He was having an awesome year on an inferior team. I would not bet Poole could have performed at the same output in switched situations.

Also I never said Poole was somehow on the outs here or a bad player to have, just that he does have limits in his game such as defense and tendencies to make bonehead plays. He may be closest to an all star now of the young warriors group but that does not equate to highest ceiling. I am happy to keep him and all the young pieces but if KD’s price is only Wiggins+Poole+picks you make that trade.

[The-Power]

Lavine tore his ACL roughly half way through his 3rd season so not exactly the perfect comp there. He was having an awesome year on an inferior team. I would not bet Poole could have performed at the same output in switched situations.

LaVine played 47 games. That's enough of a sample size to project how he'd have done over the course of a full season. We can also just look at Poole's first 47 games if you prefer – the results would have been the same; Poole was better.

What made LaVine better or more reliable in your eyes? I don't see support for the idea that Poole cannot produce as well on a worse team. Besides Curry, he may be least dependent on the system or his teammates in terms of offensive output. We have seen Poole without Curry for the last two seasons and he's still more efficient than LaVine was while carrying a much larger scoring and creation burden (LaVine was his team's third option that year, so he wasn't exactly carrying it offensively).

Without Curry this year, he had:
111.1 on-court ORTG, 31% USG, 58.7% TS, 27.7% AST in 1315 minutes.
Take away also Klay and he had:
110.5 on-court ORTG, 32.3 USG%, 59.5% TS, 27.4% AST in 958 minutes.
Take away also Dray and he had:
112.6 on-court ORTG, 32.2 USG%, 60.0% TS, 28.1% AST in 642 minutes.
Take away also Wiggins and he had:
113.8 on-court ORTG, 34.2% USG, 62.6% TS, 28.7% AST in 319 minutes.

There is absolutely zero evidence that Poole's production depends on his teammates. If anything, the more Poole gets to run the offense, the better he produces and the better his efficiency looks.

Now compare that to, for instance, Booker in his 3rd season in which he had a 104.6 on-court ORTG, 31.7% USG, 56.1% TS, 24.4% AST.

I don't think people realize that with Poole, we could easily have the next Booker or LaVine on our team in terms of ability, and possibly even more (although possibly also less, that is true). And he fits better than both in the system that we run. If I'm the Warriors, Poole is the one young player that is pretty much off-limits for me. He has a realistic chance to develop into a top 10 offensive player if he continues on his current trajectory, and he can do so in Kerr's system with his ability to play both on and off the ball, create for himself and others, and draw defensive attention out to the line.

That's a rare prospect and it would be foolish from us to give him up. He's an improvement on defense (would increase his minutes) or a higher-usage role away from being in the All-Star consideration, and he's just turned 23! He's not Curry but we would be better off treating him as the next Curry than as a ‘nice story’ and merely one solid prospect among many.

You mentioned “there’s plenty of small scoring guards to be had” but I still dare you to name one that comes close to Poole and isn't considered a legitimately great young prospect by team.

I also have no idea how anyone could downplay what Poole did in the postseason. Yes, he played less as the run went on with Kerr leaning more towards defense than offense. But this was Poole's first playoff run and he actually stepped up compared to the RS. His scoring efficiency (65.4% TS) was historic for a player of his age who had still a fairly high usage (24.4% USG) and created a lot of offense himself (assisted on only 34.2% of 2s and 66.0% of 3s, down from the RS).

He was also efficient in every single playoff series:
21.0 PPG on 71.5% TS in 32.4 MPG vs. Denver
17.8 PPG on 57.5% TS in 29.8 MPG vs. Memphis
16.4 PPG on 79.0% TS in 28.0 MPG vs. Dallas
13.2 PPG on 59.1% TS in 20.8 MPG vs. Boston

So yes, he scored less as the playoffs progressed but a lot of that had to do with less playing time. Offensively, he produced whenever he entered the court. It's his defense that took some minutes away from him but that's nothing unusual for young players. Still, up until the Finals (when Kerr used him noticeably less), he had an incredible scoring run through three series and against two high-level RS defenses. How many young players have done something comparable? The number is extremely small, so it feels weird to nitpick what was an incredible playoff run from a 22 year old because his coach decided to play him a bit less in the freaking NBA Finals.

[DevinVassell]

Lol a godsend really? He had a great start to the playoffs and then progressively leveled off series by series. When his shot wasn’t falling he was varying degrees of bad to unplayable. He had an absolutely turnstile defense for large parts of the playoffs.

I like Jordan Poole a lot and have no problem if we keep him and build around but acting like he is the second coming of Curry is crazy.

god·send
noun
a very helpful or valuable event, person, or thing

Yes mate, at 28 JP was a godsend for this team.

Looks like The Power covered it already much better than I ever could.... but again 22yo Poole is elite efficiently. He is not Curry but he is the closest thing we have to Curry by a country mile and it's not close. These guys don't grow on trees. Let's not forget he also just happened to lead the entire league (including Curry) in ft% this year.

[Scoots1994]

Something is tell me that Draymond, Durant and the rest of the Warriors would love to give the league a big FU after winning a chip wihtout Durant....and bring him back.

I have faith in the FO that they're smarter than to gut the team and mortgage the future for a 34 yr old, injury-prone Durant, no matter what the silly players want.

Indeed. Besides KD doesn't want to come back so it's not going to happen, it's just that the media lives on this kind of stuff.

[SAKURABA216]

Poole is a great story but he’s shown little on the defensive end. There’s plenty of small scoring guards to be had and quite frankly I’m more excited to see what Moody can do.

How many of them are 6'4'', in their early 20s, have shown rapid development, are known to have an incredible work ethic, have the ability to create for others, and proven to be able to score at elite efficiency in the playoffs?

I genuinely don't understand how some Warriors fans can watch and look at Poole and come away with such conclusions. Poole is by far the safest bet to become an All-Star among all our young players, and our best bet to have a primary offensive option post-Steph.

He's not just ‘a nice story’, he's a building block for the future. Just for illustration purposes: compare Poole's and LaVine's 3rd year in the league. Poole was simply better, and LaVine is a max player now.

Agreed. Poole is an incredible building block and plays with a confidence you just can't teach. Poole has a way higher ceiling than Moody does who hasn't shown much more potential than being a good 3&D player with no ability to handle the ball or create his own shot.

[Xplatformer]

Would it be possible for the Warriors to pick up Eric Bledsoe after July 10th? Financially?