2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

[reanimator]

If you put Scottie on any other lottery team, with the exception of Cleveland, and you give him the same shot attempts and ball handling responsibilities as Cade, he's likely averaging somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 ppg 8 rpg and 5 apg.

What is this based on other than optimism? More than likely his efficiency drops, his turnovers increase, his defensive intensity drops and he doesn't quite get the 5 ppg bump you're alluding to, but thats my opinion.

When Scottie played with a short roster (like when Pascal and OG were out) his scoring and rebounding increased significantly. His efficiency also improved, I believe. With a healthy roster, he's a 4th option on this team offensively which off course limits his output.

Teams were not game planning for him and its a small sample. And the scenario would be more like if Pascal + Og + FVV were all out not just 1 or 2.

[Reeko]

March
barnes - 17.1 PPG on .537 TS%
cade - 22.5 PPG on .544 TS%
mobley - 15.4 PPG on .555 TS%

the efficiency argument is losing steam...

shout out to jalen green too, he's averaging 20.1 PPG on .591 TS%.

Yes, because one month of good efficiency from Cade erases everything up to this point.

[OrlMagic05]

March
barnes - 17.1 PPG on .537 TS%
cade - 22.5 PPG on .544 TS%
mobley - 15.4 PPG on .555 TS%

the efficiency argument is losing steam...

shout out to jalen green too, he's averaging 20.1 PPG on .591 TS%.

Franz has the best TS% for the season out of them all while still averaging similar numbers.. I still dont get how he is overlooked so much.

[Madhouse]

[whitehops]

Yes, because one month of good efficiency from Cade erases everything up to this point.

i wouldn't say the term "losing steam" is erasing anything.

[whitehops]

Franz has the best TS% for the season out of them all while still averaging similar numbers.. I still dont get how he is overlooked so much.

neither do i tbh.

[Kurtz]

What is this based on other than optimism? More than likely his efficiency drops, his turnovers increase, his defensive intensity drops and he doesn't quite get the 5 ppg bump you're alluding to, but thats my opinion.

When Scottie played with a short roster (like when Pascal and OG were out) his scoring and rebounding increased significantly. His efficiency also improved, I believe. With a healthy roster, he's a 4th option on this team offensively which off course limits his output.

Teams were not game planning for him and its a small sample. And the scenario would be more like if Pascal + Og + FVV were all out not just 1 or 2.

Why would all 3 need to be out? Detroit is not completely devoid of talent - Grant, for example.

And I'm puzzled at your conditions - you're happy to discuss hypotheticals, but looking at actual games where some of those guys were out (and there have been plenty) is irrelevant because the sample size isn't up to your standards?

[reanimator]

If you put Scottie on any other lottery team, with the exception of Cleveland, and you give him the same shot attempts and ball handling responsibilities as Cade, he's likely averaging somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 ppg 8 rpg and 5 apg.

What is this based on other than optimism? More than likely his efficiency drops, his turnovers increase, his defensive intensity drops and he doesn't quite get the 5 ppg bump you're alluding to, but thats my opinion.

+ double teams increase, oppo game planning just for you increases, frustration increases, bumps and bruises increase, usage fatigue increases, and injury likelihood increases. Raptors fans can’t ignore these very real risk factors while only focusing on the potential benefits of a heliocentric role in the offensive.

You said it better than me.

[OrlMagic05]

Franz has the best TS% for the season out of them all while still averaging similar numbers.. I still dont get how he is overlooked so much.

neither do i tbh.

Its because hes not flashy like the others.

[Reeko]

My God, Cade's advanced stats are putrid. And before anyone says "It's because he's on a bad team." I know that's part of it, but Wagner is on a worse team and his advanced stats are way better.

[HumbleRen]

Read on Twitter

[HumbleRen]

My God, Cade's advanced stats are putrid. And before anyone says "It's because he's on a bad team." I know that's part of it, but Wagner is on a worse team and his advanced stats are way better.

Advance stats have never been a theme in the ROTY, that's more of a MVP thing.

Usually goes by raw stats, which Cade is winning in due to his sheer usage rate/talent.

[Reeko]

My God, Cade's advanced stats are putrid. And before anyone says "It's because he's on a bad team." I know that's part of it, but Wagner is on a worse team and his advanced stats are way better.

Advance stats have never been a theme in the ROTY, that's more of a MVP thing.

Usually goes by raw stats, which Cade is winning in due to his sheer usage rate/talent.

It's not the deciding factor, but it should be factored in.

[JackTalkThai]

Franz has the best TS% for the season out of them all while still averaging similar numbers.. I still dont get how he is overlooked so much.

neither do i tbh.

Its because hes not flashy like the others.

Cade is not particularly flashy either which partly explains his (and Franz) lack of support in mainstream forums and publications.

[Reeko]

neither do i tbh.

Its because hes not flashy like the others.

Cade is not particularly flashy either which partly explains his (and Franz) lack of support in mainstream forums and publications.

And Barnes and Mobley are super flashy? Lol, what a lame excuse.

[JackTalkThai]

My God, Cade's advanced stats are putrid. And before anyone says "It's because he's on a bad team." I know that's part of it, but Wagner is on a worse team and his advanced stats are way better.

Advanced metrics rarely favor or benefit high usage young PG’s for very obvious and basic reasons. I’d love to see someone like Trae Young’s advanced metrics as a rookie. I can’t imagine they’re good.

[everdiso]

My God, Cade's advanced stats are putrid. And before anyone says "It's because he's on a bad team." I know that's part of it, but Wagner is on a worse team and his advanced stats are way better.

Advanced metrics rarely favor or benefit high usage young PG’s for very obvious and basic reasons. I’d love to see someone like Trae Young’s advanced metrics as a rookie. I can’t imagine they’re good.

Trae's offensive metrics were very good from day one. Though his D was and still is very bad.

Cade's a negative on both sides of the ball still.

[reanimator]

My God, Cade's advanced stats are putrid. And before anyone says "It's because he's on a bad team." I know that's part of it, but Wagner is on a worse team and his advanced stats are way better.

Advanced metrics rarely favor or benefit high usage young PG’s for very obvious and basic reasons. I’d love to see someone like Trae Young’s advanced metrics as a rookie. I can’t imagine they’re good.

Some want the best rookie to be synonymous "does the least the most efficiently."

[Reeko]

My God, Cade's advanced stats are putrid. And before anyone says "It's because he's on a bad team." I know that's part of it, but Wagner is on a worse team and his advanced stats are way better.

Advanced metrics rarely favor or benefit high usage young PG’s for very obvious and basic reasons. I’d love to see someone like Trae Young’s advanced metrics as a rookie. I can’t imagine they’re good.

Trae's offensive metrics were very good from day one. Though his D was and still is very bad.

Cade's a negative on both sides of the ball still.

Show me any PG who won ROTY with advanced metrics that are as poor as Cade's, I'm really struggling to find any.

[Vampirate]

Cade on the Raptors and Barnes on the Pistons is an interesting swap to see what happens. I'm also assuming both players will have progressed the same way.

Cade on the Raptors

4th option, not because of how good or bad he is, but because of the mentality of the coach.
A/TO likely improves some, better teammates
PPG and shot attempts go down
Assists might go up, not completely sure on this one
scoring efficiency goes up
rebounds go down - the raptors are actually a good rebounding team

Has a 35 pt/ 7 assist/ 5 rebound night sometime in the season shooting the lights out


Barnes on the Pistons

#1 option, again he'd be miles away the best player on that team, like Cade is
A/TO likely gets worse to some degree
Assists go up
PPG goes up
rebounds goes up (who else is close to him here on the Pistons, aside from Cade?)
scoring efficiency goes down to some extent

Has a 30 pt/ 10 assist /10-15 rebound game sometime in the season, he's capable of this go look at his games against Denver and the Lakers