Draft Thread: Who do you want with the 13th pick? Stanley Johnson and WCS added..change votes if you want

[Ghost of Kleine]

Bledsoe is still a very good and a coveted talent regardless of his contracts financial bearing .

Markieff is also, for his consistency and production. There will always be teams with the need or desires for another teams players, talent.

We should also not forget that new york has only a limited window for in wich to make the playoffs, and satiate melos' interests. He is their franchise player, and last thing they want to do is wait with him through a painful trial and development period for a rookie, irregardless of his projected talent.

Hence, Jacksons' propensity for making the #4 pick readily available for a decent package of veteran talent. It is very clear to most that the priority to jackson is to fill their roster with veteran talent in wich to help them get into the playoffs.

Now I know that bledsoe is no john starks, or marbury lol.... But he could definitely pair up with melo to carry them into the postseason.

Also, it's true that markieff is no charles oakley either, But for new yorks' needs, He and bledsoe surely are better than anything they currently have on their roster apart from melo.


Perceived value is in the eye of the beholder....And lastly, I'm sure that the knicks management is well aware that upon acquiring bledsoe, markieff, etc. to their roster, they become quite a bit more appealing to big name free agents such as gasol, aldridge, Or any other looking for a productive veteran roster in place so they can compete.

The trend has shown that teams are heading the direction of three game changing impact stars, and bledsoe gives them two now on their roster at key positions. This makes it a much easier sell to marquee talent in free agency.

"Perceived Value". So yes, I strongly believe that a trade with new york for the 4th pick is very feasible, that is as long as mcD still has testicular fortitude, and bravado to be a big time player in this draft.

[bwgood77]

I don't like Cauley Stein because I don't think he will ever have much offensive output and isn't a great rebounder. If you are going to play a guy like him, you better have a superstar big that can rebound a ton and also probably has range. He'd probably be a good guy to play with Kevin Love for example, but on most teams, he would likely hurt your offense too much.

[Damkac]

No way, Warren is gonna be a great player. Warren and Len are my near untouchable players on our roster.

I think McDonough has acquired two under 25 year old pieces he thinks are building blocks in Bledsoe and Knight. We should consider what can we get for Warren, Len and #13. Can a package like that fetch a star?

That package probably can net us an occasional All Star, but not an star. Someone like DeRozan, Al Jefferson or Vucevic , but not a true star like Paul George or Blake Griffin.
I wouldn't trade that three players ( Warren, Len and #13) because I think Len and Warren can be borderline All Stars in the next few years, both have huge upside.

Wait, you don't just said that package of Len, Warren and 13th = Derozan, Jefferson or Vucevic? You forget green font right?

If McD could swing that trade, he'd have to be considered one of the best GMs in the league. At this point in time, Bledsoe and the Morri have negative value. Look at the facts:

OK, I give up

[JohnWall2]

I love the pre-draft fantasy trades.......You guys know good and damn well we will be drafting number 13. You should be looking at who will be available at 13, because we never trade during or pre draft.

In a few years we won't have to trade up, we will be bad enough to pick in place of the 6ers, Wolves, Pistons, Jazz et al because they all have talent and high picks because they played their young guys; we have people here who say play PJ........I would love to have seen Warren get the burn Rodney Hood received.

But play PJ, pick 13 and then make ridiculous trade offers on RealGM.


We have nothing to trade......NOTHING!!

I think you have hit the nail on the head there man. Why we don't play our young guys is beyond me, we are continually striving for mediocrity and as a result continually pick 13/14th each year. Its a pointless exercise and because of this attitude we just aren't improving. Next season we need to play Len, TJ, Goodwin and the rookie we pick at 13 and we need to give them decent mins. Guys like PJ Tucker can come off the bench which is where he belongs anyway, we should look to trade him and the twins for sure. Bledsoe too probably, time to retool and do it properly.

Well, Len was playing big minutes until he went down and I imagine the same will happen with Warren. I don't mind letting them develop for a year, and I think it will maybe even help them to work harder in the offseason after their rookie year if they get limited minutes. The team talked about how much Len had improved when he came back after the offseason. Does he improve that much if he was handed a ton of playing time as a rookie? Maybe. I don't know. But you can bet that Warren is going to work very hard this summer, work on his shot, come back, and be even better after this summer.

I agree they need to all get major minutes, and Tucker or Marcus Morris should not be getting minutes at the expense of Warren. Hopefully we can immediately trade Marcus once this case gets resolved, and if not, like I've said before, unless he is completely shaped up, I'd waive him...at least at the first opportunity he messes up again, yells at coach, gets a bunch of unnecessary techs, off court problems, etc. Eat the $20 million because Kieff is probably really worth that entire combined contract anyway, and is VERY trade-able at the $8 million price. Not that I'd trade him. That's one of the best bargains in the league. It would be nice to find an even better PF and have him be a sixth man, but that's not a bad price for someone who would be one hell of a 6th man and is still a solid starter.

Yeah I agree with pretty much all that you say. How would Markieff be though we were to trade away his brother? Would he still want to be here?

[bwgood77]

Yeah I agree with pretty much all that you say. How would Markieff be though we were to trade away his brother? Would he still want to be here?

He seems to be pretty professional (at least compared to his brother) and I think he wants to be a part of the team and it's success. I'm sure he wouldn't be happy if we traded his brother but he'd probably understand why we did it. He has to be pretty aware of what a lot of people are talking about and thinking.

[JohnWall2]

Yeah I agree with pretty much all that you say. How would Markieff be though we were to trade away his brother? Would he still want to be here?

He seems to be pretty professional (at least compared to his brother) and I think he wants to be a part of the team and it's success. I'm sure he wouldn't be happy if we traded his brother but he'd probably understand why we did it. He has to be pretty aware of what a lot of people are talking about and thinking.

I hope you're right man. Markieff would definitely be a good piece to have coming off the bench.

We really need to bring in some talent though. Last season was like fools gold and in my honest opinion its now set us back an additional 1-2 seasons. We need to identify our core and roll forward with it and give those guys meaningful minutes. No more of this battling for the final playoff spot only to fail yet again and get the 13th pick. It should be clear by now that approach just hasn't worked.

[bwgood77]

Yeah I agree with pretty much all that you say. How would Markieff be though we were to trade away his brother? Would he still want to be here?

He seems to be pretty professional (at least compared to his brother) and I think he wants to be a part of the team and it's success. I'm sure he wouldn't be happy if we traded his brother but he'd probably understand why we did it. He has to be pretty aware of what a lot of people are talking about and thinking.

I hope you're right man. Markieff would definitely be a good piece to have coming off the bench.

We really need to bring in some talent though. Last season was like fools gold and in my honest opinion its now set us back an additional 1-2 seasons. We need to identify our core and roll forward with it and give those guys meaningful minutes. No more of this battling for the final playoff spot only to fail yet again and get the 13th pick. It should be clear by now that approach just hasn't worked.

It's hard to know if it set us back....I would normally think so if I believe we would have gotten a far better player in the draft with the 4th or 7th pick or something, but I'm not sure there are many players I would rather have than Warren out of the draft. Maybe a couple, so I don't think the success hurt us too much. I think what it hurt the most was the coach, front office, fans, etc....because expectations suddenly went through the roof and people expected too much out of this team.....so fans were disappointed this year despite the fact, that if you were to look at what was projected for us last year, and then see we had 39 wins this year (not knowing what happened last year) you would think "wow, their rebuild must be going extremely well".

The tone is probably much different in Boston, where they got to the playoffs and stuff, but that gave them a worse pick, and they might be in a similar predicament. Now Boston fans are going to expect playoffs next year and the job Stevens has got significantly tougher. Add the fact that Paul George is back, and teams like Detroit and Milwaukee will only get better and it will be tough.

Good coaches who maximize what they get out of players early often end up taking heat because fan expectations get unrealistically high. I've seen it happen many times.

[JohnWall2]

He seems to be pretty professional (at least compared to his brother) and I think he wants to be a part of the team and it's success. I'm sure he wouldn't be happy if we traded his brother but he'd probably understand why we did it. He has to be pretty aware of what a lot of people are talking about and thinking.

I hope you're right man. Markieff would definitely be a good piece to have coming off the bench.

We really need to bring in some talent though. Last season was like fools gold and in my honest opinion its now set us back an additional 1-2 seasons. We need to identify our core and roll forward with it and give those guys meaningful minutes. No more of this battling for the final playoff spot only to fail yet again and get the 13th pick. It should be clear by now that approach just hasn't worked.

It's hard to know if it set us back....I would normally think so if I believe we would have gotten a far better player in the draft with the 4th or 7th pick or something, but I'm not sure there are many players I would rather have than Warren out of the draft. Maybe a couple, so I don't think the success hurt us too much. I think what it hurt the most was the coach, front office, fans, etc....because expectations suddenly went through the roof and people expected too much out of this team.....so fans were disappointed this year despite the fact, that if you were to look at what was projected for us last year, and then see we had 39 wins this year (not knowing what happened last year) you would think "wow, their rebuild must be going extremely well".

The tone is probably much different in Boston, where they got to the playoffs and stuff, but that gave them a worse pick, and they might be in a similar predicament. Now Boston fans are going to expect playoffs next year and the job Stevens has got significantly tougher. Add the fact that Paul George is back, and teams like Detroit and Milwaukee will only get better and it will be tough.

Good coaches who maximize what they get out of players early often end up taking heat because fan expectations get unrealistically high. I've seen it happen many times.

Good point and I guess we won't know the answer to that for a few seasons. Its always going to be struggle to be a top team in the Western Conference, lets hope our FO make the right moves over the offseason so we are treading in the right direction.

[Kerrsed]

1. Miles Turner. Give me the big PF that can rebound and defend.
2. Bobby Portis. Same as Turner. Good defender/rebounder.
3. Kevon Looney. Doesnt have the size as the first 2, but has a great motor and is an excellent rebounder/defender.
4. Frank Kaminsky. Channing Frye-ish? Eh, the jury (Me) is still out on him.

Basically i want our 2 bigs downlow, in the post, and grabbing offensive rebounds. No more of this lets have everybody surround the 3 point line. Leave the outside shooting to the backcourt players (and SF). Give me big burly guys who can defend and rebound like a real PF/C should.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I don't think any of:

- Len, Goodwin, Warren, Ennis, Bogdanovic
- Green, Thomas, Plumlee, Wright, Knight, Tolliver, Thornton, Bullock, Smith

were linked to us before McDonough acquired them.

I'd love to see us get PG Cameron Payne for the lols.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I can't see us picking Kaminsky, Turner, Booker, Dekker, Payne (11-15 on DraftXpress Mock) they don't have the athletic weapons that McDonough looks for.

Bobby Portis (16th on DraftXpress Mock) is more in the McDonough mould, with his run and gun motor.

The next with the best athletic weapons would be Hollis-Jefferson or Christian Wood.

[Mr Puddles]

Any ideas on pick 44?

In order of preference:
Robert Upshaw
Cliff Alexander
Tyler Harvey
Dakari Johnson
Cedi Osman

[Saberestar]

Any ideas on pick 44?

In order of preference:
Robert Upshaw
Cliff Alexand2er
Tyler Harvey
Dakari Johnson
Cedi Osman

I really want Rakeem Christmas or Alexandar Vezenkov. Probably we have to trade up to grab one of them in the mid thirties, but I think they worth it. Christmas can be a great third string center and he can play a ton of years in the league. Great shoot blocker and not that bad offensively.
Vezenkov is an european player with a tremendous shooting ability and he can be a fantastic strech floor PF. He is a below average athlete, so he doesn't have a ton of upside, but he can be good bench player in the NBA for a ton of years.

I like Osman too, he is a good athlete, skilled and can play SG or SF, but I think he would be a late first round pick at least.
Upshaw is a headcase, I don't want him.

[Djedefre]

Imo, Vonleh is worth considering.

[NavLDO]

If McD could swing that trade, he'd have to be considered one of the best GMs in the league. At this point in time, Bledsoe and the Morri have negative value. Look at the facts:

OK, I give up

Instead of a 4 word retort, maybe you'd like to try to explain how either of them have positive value right now. You are a GM of a team--do you want to trade for two players that were indicted by a grand jury on felony charges for aggravated assault? Is that something you see as "positive value"?

And as I mentioned, with Bledsoe currently the 7th highest paid PG and accounting for 20% of the team's salary cap, when he isn't even an All-Star. Teams trade contracts more so than players, and right now, Bledsoe's play isn't worth his salary--next year, it likely (hopefully) will.

So, please enlighten me as to WHY I am wrong, rather than just type out a 4 word retort; that proves absolutely nothing.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

There are many explanation for why you're obviously wrong littered all over this message board. Nobody's job to explain anything to you.

Though I was (among?) the first to propose moving Bledsoe for the #4, I now think that is not the best way forward. We need to make ourselves attractive to free agents, and that means retaining developed talent. And as far as the difference between #4 and #13 is concerned - I'm not so sure any more. Over the long-term, is Winslow > Oubre? Is Porzingis > Kaminsky, Dekker, Looney and Lyles? Is Cauley-Stein > Turner? I think I can comfortably say that Mudiay > Payne. What I'm saying is, perhaps it makes more sense to stay the course and accumulate organically.

Just had to let the anger of the season wash away to come to that conclusion. Here's hoping we see big minutes for TJ Warren.

[Barkley_34]

There are many explanation for why you're obviously wrong littered all over this message board. Nobody's job to explain anything to you.

Though I was (among?) the first to propose moving Bledsoe for the #4, I now think that is not the best way forward. We need to make ourselves attractive to free agents, and that means retaining developed talent. And as far as the difference between #4 and #13 is concerned - I'm not so sure any more. Over the long-term, is Winslow > Oubre? Is Porzingis > Kaminsky, Dekker, Looney and Lyles? Is Cauley-Stein > Turner? I think I can comfortably say that Mudiay > Payne. What I'm saying is, perhaps it makes more sense to stay the course and accumulate organically.

Just had to let the anger of the season wash away to come to that conclusion. Here's hoping we see big minutes for TJ Warren.

Great Post!!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Any ideas on pick 44?

In order of preference:
Robert Upshaw
Cliff Alexander
Tyler Harvey
Dakari Johnson
Cedi Osman

I definitely would take dakari johnson first and foremost to bolster our 2nd units frontline. His game just is really reminiscent of zach randolphs' bruising post play, and I believe it would really add a new dynamic to our frontcourt.

Second choice would be harvey forchis instant offense . He is kind of a poor mans' eddie house in my opinion.

Lastly would be upshaw, as even though his defense has drawn comparisons to Deandre Jordan, his offcourt drug problems make me very wary of him.

Alexander is just too undersized. Too many tweeners these days.

[Damkac]

If McD could swing that trade, he'd have to be considered one of the best GMs in the league. At this point in time, Bledsoe and the Morri have negative value. Look at the facts:

OK, I give up

Instead of a 4 word retort, maybe you'd like to try to explain how either of them have positive value right now. You are a GM of a team--do you want to trade for two players that were indicted by a grand jury on felony charges for aggravated assault? Is that something you see as "positive value"?

And as I mentioned, with Bledsoe currently the 7th highest paid PG and accounting for 20% of the team's salary cap, when he isn't even an All-Star. Teams trade contracts more so than players, and right now, Bledsoe's play isn't worth his salary--next year, it likely (hopefully) will.

So, please enlighten me as to WHY I am wrong, rather than just type out a 4 word retort; that proves absolutely nothing.

Morri bros have amazing production for their contracts and with cap going up it will look even better. But it was written hundreds times here. Most probably one year from now nobody would remember about that charge. Even now their value is definitely positive and in future it will go up.
About Bledsoe, what pg are better than him, not much older than him and on better contract (not including rookie contracts)? Curry, Teague and...?

Saying they have negative value is ridiculous.

[thamadkant]

There are many explanation for why you're obviously wrong littered all over this message board. Nobody's job to explain anything to you.

Though I was (among?) the first to propose moving Bledsoe for the #4, I now think that is not the best way forward. We need to make ourselves attractive to free agents, and that means retaining developed talent. And as far as the difference between #4 and #13 is concerned - I'm not so sure any more. Over the long-term, is Winslow > Oubre? Is Porzingis > Kaminsky, Dekker, Looney and Lyles? Is Cauley-Stein > Turner? I think I can comfortably say that Mudiay > Payne. What I'm saying is, perhaps it makes more sense to stay the course and accumulate organically.

Just had to let the anger of the season wash away to come to that conclusion. Here's hoping we see big minutes for TJ Warren.

50/50

If Suns stay put and a player in the range of 8-12 becomes a star.... I can already see the headlines from Suns fans.. "Could of gotten so and so... should of made that trade"

If Suns moved up, then a player in pick 13-15 becomes a star and BETTER than the player they moved up for... same scenario above, BUT... worse since Suns gave up "assets".



In the END.... McD and his scouts have done their due diligence, have their pros/cons matrix, have their draft board reviewed multiple times, they will ultimately pick the player or move that fits their vision.

Sadly fan vision is different from professionals who are making decisions based on studies, stats, figures etc... Us fans make decisions based mainly on our speculations.


But I am 100% confident, McD will TRY to move up.... but if it fails, he has his guy at pick 13... just like last year.