NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

[ChartFiction]

How much of Embiid's scoring advantage is just because of increased usage? I didn't realize his was so high.

39.0% Embiid (1st)
36.3% Luka (2nd)
33.3% Giannis (3rd)
32.8% SGA (4th)
29.3% Jokic (22nd)

Makes a lot of sense that Jokic is further back in this stat given his propensity to pass. On the other hand Luka's high usage rate makes sense given the detritus around him plus Kyrie's missed games. Giannis and SGA are effectively leading the pack/peloton as opposed to Embiid and Luka's outlier usage rates.

The gap between Embiid (1st) and Giannis (3rd) , is the same gap as Giannis (3rd) and Jamal Murray (30th). The gap between Embiid and Jokic is the same as the gap between Jokic (22nd) and Jaime Jaquez Jr (103rd).

But in this case it's more than justified, his playmaking has improved a lot this year, it's not just a case of increasing scoring while maintaining or worsening assists and turnovers.

Yeah, Phillies record easily justifies the playstyle. I just found it illuminating.

To say his scoring advantage is because of increased usage is the equivalent of saying his scoring advantage is because he takes more shots. Usage rate is calculated using simple box score. But stating it that way is a far less defensible position and sounds more nonsensical. Especially given he is averaging that PPG on 65% TS. Which is pretty much around the same as the highest TS%s in the league. This is miles above league average so any amount of increased volume on it is a huge benefit. Would it be better if he scored 0 PPG on 0 attempts? I don't understand the logic.

Player tracking wise, Jokic gets the most touches in the league at 99.4 per game and holds the ball for 2.76 secs per touch. Embiid gets 75.9 touches per game and holds the ball for 2.72 seconds per touch.

[Exp0sed]

How much of Embiid's scoring advantage is just because of increased usage? I didn't realize his was so high.

39.0% Embiid (1st)
36.3% Luka (2nd)
33.3% Giannis (3rd)
32.8% SGA (4th)
29.3% Jokic (22nd)

Makes a lot of sense that Jokic is further back in this stat given his propensity to pass. On the other hand Luka's high usage rate makes sense given the detritus around him plus Kyrie's missed games. Giannis and SGA are effectively leading the pack/peloton as opposed to Embiid and Luka's outlier usage rates.

The gap between Embiid (1st) and Giannis (3rd) , is the same gap as Giannis (3rd) and Jamal Murray (30th). The gap between Embiid and Jokic is the same as the gap between Jokic (22nd) and Jaime Jaquez Jr (103rd).

But in this case it's more than justified, his playmaking has improved a lot this year, it's not just a case of increasing scoring while maintaining or worsening assists and turnovers.

Yeah, Phillies record easily justifies the playstyle. I just found it illuminating.

no, it doesn't
it only "justifies" Embiid's fake case

their record would be the same if he had 32% usage instead of 39%, for one
he's getting to the line at a career high rate (slightly) and converting a career high 88% from the stripe (i'm not sure that's sustainable but 85% I bet he can pull off).
he is at an awesome TS% of 65 (identical to last season) while uppin his 3PA (slightly) and 3p% + FTA, from 2 he's shooting slightly worse than last season

the problem is this: in the playoffs when Embiid doesn't get all the bogus calls, opponents can actually guard him a little making him a more pedestrian scorer. without the added rest of going to the stripe every other possession - he becomes gassed, especially if he needs to play 40 mins of playoff basketball (as opposed to 3 quarters against tanking teams) and the blueprint of Embiid close to 40% usage becomes unfeasible, and ALOT less effective

the only purpose it serves is to bolster Embiid's stats, status and personal accolades - it does not help the 76ers, who are in for a rude awakening because of that, playoff after playoff

here's Embiid %'s from the field in every postseason of his career:
43.5%, 42.8%, 45.9%, 51.3%, 48.4% and last playoffs - 43.1%

here's some TS% stats, rs vs. playoffs

17-18: rs 58.4 TS% \ playoffs 51.9%
18-19: rs 57.3% \ playoffs 55.9%
.....
.....
22-23: rs 65% TS \ playoffs 59% TS

the same goes for his turnovers, that go considerably up in the playoffs, his assists go down and most importantly: his usage goes down in the playoffs!

have u ever heard of a superstar that has higher usage in the rs than the playoffs? the ultimate fraud and stat padder
this dude is the only player in history that had back to back games in the playoffs with more than 8 turnovers

76ers play in the rs so Embiid can stat pad and it comes back to haunt them in the playoffs, cuz they don't know other ways to play except force feeding Embiid, the latter is begging for the ball so his can jack up shots up 30 vs. a scrub team at home but when the going gets tough he doesn't touch the ball on O for 4 straight mins while Harden is busy bricking everything

so i'll ask u, does his rs (high) TS% "justify" this playstyle?
well yeah, if ur goal is to win awards but less so if ur aim is a ring

[eyeatoma]

Give it a rest lol...

[Exp0sed]

Give it a rest lol...

look whose talking

[eyeatoma]

Give it a rest lol...

look whose talking

No my posts actually make some semblance of sense.

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[BigGargamel]

Let me preface this by saying I'd vote for Embiid for MVP right now.

But LOL @ some of these Jokic takes I'm reading.

"Jokic is cruising"
"Jokic is not going full tilt"
"We've seen better from him"

Meanwhile: Post Christmas Jokic - 27/11/8.5 on 76/62/86 with 1blk 1 stl.

People are so blinded by the precious ppg

SGA is absolutely NOT ahead of Jokic in the MVP race. There is no logical case you can make for that, other than you're rooting for a fresh face. It's a two man show.

[Bum Adebayo]

Yeah Jokic is having an insane stretch of games since his last 2 stinkers, it's a great battle between the king of traditional stats and the king of advanced stats.

[losmi]

Interesting that the alleged MVP favorite, Joel Embiid, finished 2nd in all-star eastern conference frountcort media vote, behind Giannis.

But hey, this time last year he was an all-star reserve, 4th best player of one half of one half of the league, and still won the MVP lol.

[Bum Adebayo]

Interesting that the alleged MVP favorite, Joel Embiid, finished 2nd in all-star eastern conference frountcort media vote, behind Giannis.

But hey, this time last year he was an all-star reserve, 4th best player of one half of one half of the league, and still won the MVP lol.

According to many here, Embiid is overrated and overhyped by the media, doesn't seem to be the case then if they put Giannis above him, when it's certainly a popular opinion that Embiid has been better than Giannis this season, well except if you weight the difference in availability a lot.

[losmi]

Interesting that the alleged MVP favorite, Joel Embiid, finished 2nd in all-star eastern conference frountcort media vote, behind Giannis.

But hey, this time last year he was an all-star reserve, 4th best player of one half of one half of the league, and still won the MVP lol.

According to many here, Embiid is overrated and overhyped by the media, doesn't seem to be the case then if they put Giannis above him.

It seems that when there's no pressure on voters and they are free to vote as they think they should, the results are vastly different.

[losmi]

And yes, he is overhyped because most media target casuals who like big numbers, so they have to praise him although they're aware he's nowhere near the top.

[Jadoogar]

Let me preface this by saying I'd vote for Embiid for MVP right now.

But LOL @ some of these Jokic takes I'm reading.

"Jokic is cruising"
"Jokic is not going full tilt"
"We've seen better from him"

Meanwhile: Post Christmas Jokic - 27/11/8.5 on 76/62/86 with 1blk 1 stl.

People are so blinded by the precious ppg

SGA is absolutely NOT ahead of Jokic in the MVP race. There is no logical case you can make for that, other than you're rooting for a fresh face. It's a two man show.

lol wtf are those percentages

[falcolombardi]

Yeah Jokic is having an insane stretch of games since his last 2 stinkers, it's a great battle between the king of traditional stats and the king of advanced stats.

Embiid advanced stats are nuts too as are jokic box score stats. I dont think this is a "boxscore vs plus-minus" thingh

[AleksandarN]

Interesting that the alleged MVP favorite, Joel Embiid, finished 2nd in all-star eastern conference frountcort media vote, behind Giannis.

But hey, this time last year he was an all-star reserve, 4th best player of one half of one half of the league, and still won the MVP lol.

According to many here, Embiid is overrated and overhyped by the media, doesn't seem to be the case then if they put Giannis above him, when it's certainly a popular opinion that Embiid has been better than Giannis this season, well except if you weight the difference in availability a lot.

Hey I am not a Embiid defender at all but this is crazy

Read on Twitter

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

?t=rCB-qVR4K7GyZqCu1b9jUA&s=19

Of course Maxey might not play and Tobias is questionable lmfao...

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[losmi]

Read on Twitter

?t=rCB-qVR4K7GyZqCu1b9jUA&s=19

Of course Maxey might not play and Tobias is questionable lmfao...

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Hard to imagine Embiid playing without an advantage, let alone with a huge disadvantage of half the team out. That's not the Joel we know. He must be desperate to hit the 65 games mark.

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

?t=rCB-qVR4K7GyZqCu1b9jUA&s=19

Of course Maxey might not play and Tobias is questionable lmfao...

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Hard to imagine Embiid playing without an advantage, let alone with a huge disadvantage of half the team out. That's not the Joel we know. He must be desperate to hit the 65 games mark.

Keep twisting your weak ass narrative. You all were so confident that he would duck, now that he isn't you've shifted to something else.

Lost all credibility.

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[losmi]

Read on Twitter

?t=rCB-qVR4K7GyZqCu1b9jUA&s=19

Of course Maxey might not play and Tobias is questionable lmfao...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Hard to imagine Embiid playing without an advantage, let alone with a huge disadvantage of half the team out. That's not the Joel we know. He must be desperate to hit the 65 games mark.

Keep twisting your weak ass narrative. You all were so confident that he would duck, now that he isn't you've shifted to something else.

Lost all credibility.

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We don't know yet if he will actually play. In fact, they might be setting up another excuse, because the one with injuries was getting old. Now, Embiid is healthy and wants to play, but his coach insists that he rests because the others are out so they have no chance anyway.

[eyeatoma]

Hard to imagine Embiid playing without an advantage, let alone with a huge disadvantage of half the team out. That's not the Joel we know. He must be desperate to hit the 65 games mark.

Keep twisting your weak ass narrative. You all were so confident that he would duck, now that he isn't you've shifted to something else.

Lost all credibility.

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We don't know yet if he will actually play. In fact, they might be setting up another excuse, because the one with injuries was getting old. Now, Embiid is healthy and wants to play, but his coach insists that he rests because the others are out so they have no chance anyway.

Ramona listing he's not on the injury list all but guarantees he'll play.

Also Sixers twitter just posted this. Doubt they would unless they were pretty damn sure.

Read on Twitter

Keep coping though.

[Cavsfansince84]

Might be the highest efficiency 70+ pt game of all time. Even 60+. He's at around 90% ts.