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The 2016 Offseason Thread

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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1101 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 3, 2016 1:51 am

letsgosuns wrote:How is my trade idea unreasonable? Do I like Knight? No. But that does not mean he does not have good value. The Suns do not need to trade him. He is not demanding a trade. If anything, I think it is highly unlikely they trade him with the way he is talking now saying all he cares about is winning. I also said originally if an unprotected pick is too much than you could do top-3 protection on the pick. What is wrong with that.

Also, Payton so far has averaged 30 mpg in his career with the Magic. That guy is not going to be happy being relegated to a bench role. Also, off the bench you want instant scoring and good shooting which he does not provide. If you are interested in getting him as insurance for Bledsoe, then it is better to trade Bledsoe and give up on him immediately if you are that worried about his health. The team either believes in Bledsoe and wants to go ahead with him or they do not. You cannot build a young team and plan to have a guy as a main player if you are wondering if he will be healthy before the season starts.


Unprotected picks are typically only traded for stars. Nash couldn't even get one. The 2015 pick was protected for 3 years.

No team is going to give one up for Knight. That is absolutely ridiculous. Teams were laughing at us for giving up that protected Lakers pick for him that had three years of protection on it. So no lottery team will cough up an unprotected pick. But no team would.

Dragic got one, but it was six years into the future to a team free agents usually want to play for.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1102 » by letsgosuns » Wed Aug 3, 2016 2:04 am

bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:How is my trade idea unreasonable? Do I like Knight? No. But that does not mean he does not have good value. The Suns do not need to trade him. He is not demanding a trade. If anything, I think it is highly unlikely they trade him with the way he is talking now saying all he cares about is winning. I also said originally if an unprotected pick is too much than you could do top-3 protection on the pick. What is wrong with that.

Also, Payton so far has averaged 30 mpg in his career with the Magic. That guy is not going to be happy being relegated to a bench role. Also, off the bench you want instant scoring and good shooting which he does not provide. If you are interested in getting him as insurance for Bledsoe, then it is better to trade Bledsoe and give up on him immediately if you are that worried about his health. The team either believes in Bledsoe and wants to go ahead with him or they do not. You cannot build a young team and plan to have a guy as a main player if you are wondering if he will be healthy before the season starts.


Unprotected picks are typically only traded for stars. Nash couldn't even get one. The 2015 pick was protected for 3 years.

No team is going to give one up for Knight. That is absolutely ridiculous. Teams were laughing at us for giving up that protected Lakers pick for him that had three years of protection on it. So no lottery team will cough up an unprotected pick. But no team would.

Dragic got one, but it was six years into the future to a team free agents usually want to play for.


Knight is signed for four more years at less than market value. Teams trade unprotected picks for different reasons. The Nets traded three first round picks for all those players years ago. Was it a mistake? Of course. But it still happens.

Dragic got the Suns a top-7 protected pick and an unprotected pick like you said. He was an impending free agent and was having a terrible season. He could have left after half a season but the Heat did it anyway because they believed in Dragic. What if the Magic feel the same way about Knight. The might say we think we are good enough to contend for a playoff spot if we add Knight and have him for a guaranteed four years as he enters his prime. It could be worth it for them because no matter what people say, everybody wants to win immediately if they can.

So many of the players coming into the league today are not ready to play and take years to do anything. Knight can play right now. I think you are underrating Knight's value when you see players dramatically worse than Knight getting paid enormous contracts.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1103 » by darealjuice » Wed Aug 3, 2016 2:07 am

lilfishi22 wrote:I like Conley as a player. I like how he runs the team and does all the other things that doesn't show up on the stat sheet and I do think if he played in a faster offense, he'd adjust very well. That said, it's hard to justify his deal. You'd absolutely have to be at least #1 or #2 in your position to be worth that much.


I like how he plays too and I'm not saying that he falls off a cliff on a faster offense, but the Grizzlies offense is great for him to get easy assists and keep the turnover count low given how post-oriented it is. It's not hard to look at his per 100 poss. numbers and think, wow if you put him on an offense that gets 100 possessions a game he'll be a guy that gets 25/10 without turning the ball over much. The reality is that their offense is so slow paced and so much of dumping it into Gasol and ZBo in the post and letting them do their thing that you can't get anywhere near that many possessions for him in that style of play. Of course his ORTG and OBPM are going to be really high when his job is to make simple passes into the post and rack up assists while avoiding turnovers because he's making slow, methodical plays instead of attacking and making quick decisions while reacting to the defense. It's not like he scores at amazingly efficient rates, even Bledsoe has better TS% and eFG% than him, he just plays in an offense where they don't ask him to do much with the ball (career USG% of 20% compared to Knight and Bledsoe each at 26/25% in PHX) so he doesn't even have the opportunity to turn the ball over as much. His game perfectly fits in an offense like Memphis or San Antonio because they won't be asking him to be doing any creating on offense, his job is to take care of the ball and get the ball to the people who can score down low or create for themselves.

I just don't think that he has the skill set to be a guy that's taking guys off the dribble or creating his own shot all the time like guards in fast paced offenses have to. Just look at his %FG assisted stats, he get 82% of his 3 point shots assisted compared to a PG like Bledsoe who's in an fast paced attacking offense that's never had a season as a starter over 60%. If you look at Conley's past 4 years in Memphis, he gets about 27% of his 2pt FGs assisted, compared to Bledsoe getting approximately 17% assisted since he's been in Phoenix. Conley's not super quick or athletic, he's not taking guys off the dribble and getting to the hole as often and benefits a lot from being in an offense where he plays it safe and gets to make simple, smart plays instead of having to read and react to the defense at a much faster pace. There's nothing wrong with that, but it helps his advanced statistics a lot when they play so few possessions per game and he can get an assist in the NBA from dumping the ball to ZBo in the post and letting him take a few seconds to feel out the defense and make his move to score. That's not to take anything away from him, because I'm not sure if someone like Knight would be able to succeed in that role, but you need to look at context when you start spouting out advanced stats like guys like Saint do.

tl;dr: I'm sure he'd do fine, but to assume his production increases linearly in an faster offense doesn't make sense when you look at how he gets it done and how you can't really play that style of basketball at a fast pace.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1104 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 3, 2016 2:25 am

letsgosuns wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:How is my trade idea unreasonable? Do I like Knight? No. But that does not mean he does not have good value. The Suns do not need to trade him. He is not demanding a trade. If anything, I think it is highly unlikely they trade him with the way he is talking now saying all he cares about is winning. I also said originally if an unprotected pick is too much than you could do top-3 protection on the pick. What is wrong with that.

Also, Payton so far has averaged 30 mpg in his career with the Magic. That guy is not going to be happy being relegated to a bench role. Also, off the bench you want instant scoring and good shooting which he does not provide. If you are interested in getting him as insurance for Bledsoe, then it is better to trade Bledsoe and give up on him immediately if you are that worried about his health. The team either believes in Bledsoe and wants to go ahead with him or they do not. You cannot build a young team and plan to have a guy as a main player if you are wondering if he will be healthy before the season starts.


Unprotected picks are typically only traded for stars. Nash couldn't even get one. The 2015 pick was protected for 3 years.

No team is going to give one up for Knight. That is absolutely ridiculous. Teams were laughing at us for giving up that protected Lakers pick for him that had three years of protection on it. So no lottery team will cough up an unprotected pick. But no team would.

Dragic got one, but it was six years into the future to a team free agents usually want to play for.


Knight is signed for four more years at less than market value. Teams trade unprotected picks for different reasons. The Nets traded three first round picks for all those players years ago. Was it a mistake? Of course. But it still happens.

Dragic got the Suns a top-7 protected pick and an unprotected pick like you said. He was an impending free agent and was having a terrible season. He could have left after half a season but the Heat did it anyway because they believed in Dragic. What if the Magic feel the same way about Knight. The might say we think we are good enough to contend for a playoff spot if we add Knight and have him for a guaranteed four years as he enters his prime. It could be worth it for them because no matter what people say, everybody wants to win immediately if they can.

So many of the players coming into the league today are not ready to play and take years to do anything. Knight can play right now. I think you are underrating Knight's value when you see players dramatically worse than Knight getting paid enormous contracts.


OK, maybe I am wrong about his value. Interesting.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1105 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 3, 2016 2:33 am

Walt_Uoob wrote:The guy on Orlando I most covet is Ibaka. I really like his game and something based on Knight (and a protected pick?) for Ibaka could make some sense, provided 1) we think we can re-up Ibaka, 2) we think Bender and Chriss are going to take a few years to develop, 3) we also trade Tucker and shift Dudley to SF, and 4) the Orlando FO thinks they can explain how they effectively traded Dipo and Sabonis for Knight, which would be a tough sell.

I can't see it actually happening, and Ibaka's presumably looking for a featured role and a max contract, both of which are kind of scary. But he'd be a great example for Chriss to model himself after, and an obvious upgrade for the next few years. Bledsoe-Booker-Dudley-Ibaka-Chandler would be a very nice mix of shooting/spacing/slashing with plus defenders at at least three positions. Warren-Len-LB-Goodwin-Jenkins-rookies off the bench, and all three rookies spending a lot of time in D-League too. I could get excited about that team.


I doubt they'd trade Ibaka after just trading Dipo, Sabonis and Illy for him. Not for Knight at least.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1106 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 3, 2016 2:38 am

Zelaznyrules wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:If we can get Cousins without giving up Bledsoe/Booker/Bender then I'll be fine with it. Not saying I'd give up the rest of the team / assets for him though...


I don't know how long I can last with how high you guys rate Bender. I think that's what gets me the most with Suns fans and makes me dislike him more. I would give Len, Bender, and Archie for Cousins.

Bender will be a good player off the bench but will never have star potential like Cousins.


As I've said before, I think Cousins is overrated but yeah, I'd jump on that deal. But there's no way in the world that offer would impress the Kings unless they were forced into a fire sale.


If they were in a fire sale, they would probably have about 100 offers better than that. Archie has zero trade value. Len has some, but probably not a lot going into getting paid and not being particularly effective, and Bender is raw and a boom/bust prospect. On top of that they have Willie Cauley-Stein, the Big Greak center they just took with the 13th pick (so they obviously are very high on him taking him where they did over a lot of other good players), Skal (so they have their version of Bender...a project boom/bust, shot blocking, 3 pt shooting big), and Koufos. Doubt they will trade him for two more 7 footers, one about to get paid.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1107 » by Zelaznyrules » Wed Aug 3, 2016 3:04 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Zelaznyrules wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:
I don't know how long I can last with how high you guys rate Bender. I think that's what gets me the most with Suns fans and makes me dislike him more. I would give Len, Bender, and Archie for Cousins.

Bender will be a good player off the bench but will never have star potential like Cousins.


As I've said before, I think Cousins is overrated but yeah, I'd jump on that deal. But there's no way in the world that offer would impress the Kings unless they were forced into a fire sale.


If they were in a fire sale, they would probably have about 100 offers better than that. Archie has zero trade value. Len has some, but probably not a lot going into getting paid and not being particularly effective, and Bender is raw and a boom/bust prospect. On top of that they have Willie Cauley-Stein, the Big Greak center they just took with the 13th pick (so they obviously are very high on him taking him where they did over a lot of other good players), Skal (so they have their version of Bender...a project boom/bust, shot blocking, 3 pt shooting big), and Koufos. Doubt they will trade him for two more 7 footers, one about to get paid.


Yeah, I was just being nice when I said "fire sale". I can't think of any reason the Kings would take our offer over any of the deals they'd likely receive. Bender might eventually become the best player in the deal but until that happens, his value is nothing compared to that of Cousins' and he's the only asset of note in our offer. It would probably take those pieces and at least 3 first round picks just to open the conversation with them.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1108 » by letsgosuns » Wed Aug 3, 2016 3:30 am

bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Unprotected picks are typically only traded for stars. Nash couldn't even get one. The 2015 pick was protected for 3 years.

No team is going to give one up for Knight. That is absolutely ridiculous. Teams were laughing at us for giving up that protected Lakers pick for him that had three years of protection on it. So no lottery team will cough up an unprotected pick. But no team would.

Dragic got one, but it was six years into the future to a team free agents usually want to play for.


Knight is signed for four more years at less than market value. Teams trade unprotected picks for different reasons. The Nets traded three first round picks for all those players years ago. Was it a mistake? Of course. But it still happens.

Dragic got the Suns a top-7 protected pick and an unprotected pick like you said. He was an impending free agent and was having a terrible season. He could have left after half a season but the Heat did it anyway because they believed in Dragic. What if the Magic feel the same way about Knight. The might say we think we are good enough to contend for a playoff spot if we add Knight and have him for a guaranteed four years as he enters his prime. It could be worth it for them because no matter what people say, everybody wants to win immediately if they can.

So many of the players coming into the league today are not ready to play and take years to do anything. Knight can play right now. I think you are underrating Knight's value when you see players dramatically worse than Knight getting paid enormous contracts.


OK, maybe I am wrong about his value. Interesting.


Well I never thought you were wrong or meant it that way. All I was saying was I think the asset the Magic have that makes the most sense based on all the variables in play is their 2017 pick. Then I thought about how Markieff was able to get the Suns a top-9 protected pick. I think Knight is a much better guard than Markieff is a power forward. They both are underpaid based on market value. The big difference is all the baggage that Markieff came with where Knight has none of that stuff. People like Knight. So if Markieff can get a top-9 protected, I think Knight is good enough to get a top-3 protected pick depending on the team that wants him.

Knight does have a lot of things going for him. His talent, age, contract, attitude, work ethic, and willingness to be part of the community are all very attractive to organizations. That is why I think he is not going to get traded because the Suns like him. You already know I do not like him and the reasons why. I am so used to the Suns having KJ, then Kidd, then Penny, then Marbury, and then Nash, and not used to turnover prone point guards. So I watch Knight and constantly say what you are doing. However, the league is so much different now and I have to factor that into it. Because in reality, Knight is probably considered a really good player around the league, as crazy as that sounds.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1109 » by saintEscaton » Wed Aug 3, 2016 4:08 am

If Knight is considered a really good player, than Conley,Kemba, RJackson, Bledso are worldbeaters
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1110 » by Melvinlocker » Wed Aug 3, 2016 1:16 pm

letsgosuns wrote:
Melvinlocker wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:The Suns do not need to trade Knight and bring a point guard back in the process. Bledsoe is the point guard. Barbosa can be the backup point guard. Ulis can play point guard. Plus Payton is a bad shooter. The guy is a career 57% ft shooter. That is awful. He is a good energy player and what not but the Suns have enough point guards. They do not need another.

Here is another trade that I would rather do. Knight straight up for the Magic's 2017 first round pick unprotected. If that is too risky in case it is the number one pick (I highly doubt that), then do top-3 protected. Top-10 protected is not good enough. Markieff Morris was traded for a top-9 protected pick and Knight is worth far more than him. I personally would demand that no protection be put on the pick because the Suns would be handing the Magic a 24 year old point guard that averages 20 pts, 5 ast, and 4 rbs signed for four more years without taking a player from their roster.


I can respect that position. What about our LAL top 5 protected 2019 pick + Stephen Zimmerman?


The issue with that is three years from now, the Lakers core of Russell, Ingram, and Randle, plus whoever else they have could be very good. So that pick might not be a lottery pick or anywhere close to that. Also, since that pick is three years away and Knight can contribute to any team right now, I imagine the Suns would want an asset they do not have to wait at least three years for.

Here is the key though. The Suns traded the 2015 Lakers pick top-5 protected to acquire Knight. So why would they trade Knight for a weaker asset now, especially with him signed for the next four seasons at a bargain compared to all the new contracts. In addition, that pick, now owned by the 76ers, is top-3 protected for 2017 and becomes unprotected in 2018. It has implications on the the 2019 top-5 protected pick the Magic own. According to this site: [http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Magic.htm], if the 2015 Lakers pick that the Suns traded to the 76ers for Knight does not convey by 2017, then the 2019 Lakers top-5 pick the Magic own turns into second round picks in 2017 and 2018.

There is a legitimate chance that Lakers pick the 76ers own will not convey until 2018. Then the Suns would in essence have traded Knight for two second round picks. There is no way the Suns would take a chance like that. And as far as Zimmerman goes, the Suns already have two 7'1" centers, drafted two new power forwards, and have a third string center on the team as well. So I see no reason they would want another center who was just drafted number 41. If they were interested in that guy, they could have drafted him at number 34 where they drafted Ulis. So ultimately, the trade is going to have to involve the Magic's 2017 pick with very little or no protection. Also, assuming Knight plays well, wouldn't the Magic be competing for a playoff spot anyway? If they do not make the playoffs next year, do you really they think they would be any worse than a mid to low lottery team.


I like Knight, but I just don't think he is worth a pick with little to no protections. I understand your gripe about our 2019 pick though. In my book, Knight is worth a top 10 protected pick & a young prospect (Elfrid). Also, I highly doubt Ulis sees the court much for you guys anyway with your roster as is and I don't think a Payton trade changes that. Once you add in either Harkless or Aminu, I think that is paying a premium for Knight.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1111 » by NTB » Wed Aug 3, 2016 3:00 pm

carey wrote:It is 2-time, every time.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1112 » by darealjuice » Wed Aug 3, 2016 4:44 pm

What's your guys thoughts on how we should approach the Alex Len contract situation going into next year? Obviously how he performs this year is going to have a big effect on it, but thus far he's been a pretty decent player capable of grabbing double doubles frequently when he plays his natural position. His efficiency took a bit of a dive last year, but when he was playing center earlier this year instead of power forward with Tyson clogging up the paint at the same time, his shooting percentages were at least respectable (Nov: 49%, Dec: 46%, Jan: 46%, Feb: 48%) before taking a big dive when Watson started playing the Twin Tower line up (Mar: 39%, Apr: 31%). After the all star break he was able to average 13/10/2 on 30 minutes a game under Watson, but he had a pretty ridiculous 2.7 turnovers per game, poor ORTG and DRTG of 92 and 108 respectively, and a TS% of only 45.7%. He definitely had his games late in the season where he did his thing, but we really need him to not be turning the ball over about as frequently as our guards do. I'm not really sure what kind of money we should be giving him if we wanted to keep him around.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1113 » by MathiasPW » Wed Aug 3, 2016 5:21 pm

He's gonna get 14 M a year even still playing so so. Then next year he will be a beast and the contract a bargain and we will be world Champs of the universe
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1114 » by bigfoot » Wed Aug 3, 2016 5:57 pm

darealjuice wrote:What's your guys thoughts on how we should approach the Alex Len contract situation going into next year? Obviously how he performs this year is going to have a big effect on it, but thus far he's been a pretty decent player capable of grabbing double doubles frequently when he plays his natural position. His efficiency took a bit of a dive last year, but when he was playing center earlier this year instead of power forward with Tyson clogging up the paint at the same time, his shooting percentages were at least respectable (Nov: 49%, Dec: 46%, Jan: 46%, Feb: 48%) before taking a big dive when Watson started playing the Twin Tower line up (Mar: 39%, Apr: 31%). After the all star break he was able to average 13/10/2 on 30 minutes a game under Watson, but he had a pretty ridiculous 2.7 turnovers per game, poor ORTG and DRTG of 92 and 108 respectively, and a TS% of only 45.7%. He definitely had his games late in the season where he did his thing, but we really need him to not be turning the ball over about as frequently as our guards do. I'm not really sure what kind of money we should be giving him if we wanted to keep him around.


Miles Plumlee $13M per year
Timothy Mozgov $16M per year

I think if we want to keep him we will be paying $18M-$19M per year unless he really breaks out this season. In that case we will be paying him $25M (or about 25% of the salary cap). I imagine teams are going to be throwing some money at him next year as a RFA if he averages 13/10/2 while playing good defense and shooting a decent FG%.

2017 centers by pay
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/2017/cap-hit/center/
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1115 » by LukasBMW » Wed Aug 3, 2016 6:04 pm

Make or break years for both Len and Knight.

I really wish Len would load up on roids to give him more muscle and more intensity. If he improves this year and is more consistent, then I'm happy paying him and keeping him. If he still can't get it together, then I'd love to package him and trade him before we lose him for nothing.

I'm one of Knight's biggest critics but let's give him half a season. The front office claims he was not himself last year due to injuries. I think this is a spin, but we will find out. I mean, he did look like Gilbert Arenas prime 2.0 in a few games...a few games against D-league teams like the Lakers and Philly. Still, let's see how he plays this year and see if he buys into the new unselfish system. But if he continues to pound/dominate the ball and jack up long 2's, then we package him (maybe with Len), for a REAL power forward.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1116 » by TeamTragic » Wed Aug 3, 2016 6:16 pm

LukasBMW wrote:Make or break years for both Len and Knight.

I really wish Len would load up on roids to give him more muscle and more intensity. If he improves this year and is more consistent, then I'm happy paying him and keeping him. If he still can't get it together, then I'd love to package him and trade him before we lose him for nothing.

I'm one of Knight's biggest critics but let's give him half a season. The front office claims he was not himself last year due to injuries. I think this is a spin, but we will find out. I mean, he did look like Gilbert Arenas prime 2.0 in a few games...a few games against D-league teams like the Lakers and Philly. Still, let's see how he plays this year and see if he buys into the new unselfish system. But if he continues to pound/dominate the ball and jack up long 2's, then we package him (maybe with Len), for a REAL power forward.


No doubt. We should give them both this upcoming season and see where it takes this team (my hope would be a nice pick).
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1117 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Aug 3, 2016 6:21 pm

The biggest problem with the twin towers lineup was our inability to recover on shooters. Both Tyson and Alex wanted to stay down low to protect the paint, leaving a lot of shooters wide open, with only three players available to recover. Alex eventually learned to chase shooters, while Tyson stayed inside, but it wasn't particularly effective - he's no Dragan Bender in that regard.

In any case, we shouldn't re-sign Alex this summer, unless he can agree to a contract worth equal to or less than $12 million in the first season. His cap hold next summer would be $12 million, so if we sign him to a contract paying him more than that, we'll reduce our cap flexibility next summer. It makes more sense to wait and see.

I hope he gets the starting job while Tyson's minutes are kept to a minimum as we seek to find a home for him. Problem is, none of the teams I could see being interested have anything but rotten contracts to send us. Chandler for, say, Hawes and Lamb, or Omer Asik, would be bad deals for us. If there's a deal to be made, we'll have to wait for the trade deadline - but even then, I don't see it. I feel this is the biggest problem with our roster as currently constructed.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1118 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 3, 2016 7:01 pm

darealjuice wrote:What's your guys thoughts on how we should approach the Alex Len contract situation going into next year? Obviously how he performs this year is going to have a big effect on it, but thus far he's been a pretty decent player capable of grabbing double doubles frequently when he plays his natural position. His efficiency took a bit of a dive last year, but when he was playing center earlier this year instead of power forward with Tyson clogging up the paint at the same time, his shooting percentages were at least respectable (Nov: 49%, Dec: 46%, Jan: 46%, Feb: 48%) before taking a big dive when Watson started playing the Twin Tower line up (Mar: 39%, Apr: 31%). After the all star break he was able to average 13/10/2 on 30 minutes a game under Watson, but he had a pretty ridiculous 2.7 turnovers per game, poor ORTG and DRTG of 92 and 108 respectively, and a TS% of only 45.7%. He definitely had his games late in the season where he did his thing, but we really need him to not be turning the ball over about as frequently as our guards do. I'm not really sure what kind of money we should be giving him if we wanted to keep him around.


I think many factors have to be in play, the biggest one being how he plays this year. If he doesn't improve his shooting (he HAS to be above 50% at a minimum unless he is taking midrange shots and 3s at a reasonable rate and is still high 40s overall).

It also depends on what other teams offer him in RFA and whether or not with our draft pick, a center is clearly the BPA. Also it depends on whether or not Chandler is still here and if so, whether or not he expresses that he wants out next summer.

We'd have to look at what teams need centers and who that will have cap room might offer him a contract. There can't be many teams that will need a center and even fewer that will pick Alex as the guy they want. If he wants to be here and doesn't want to go anywhere else and is playing well, then he may agree to extend for around $14 a year because that would pretty much put him right where the highest paid guys on our team are. If we definitely want to keep him around and he is playing well, that would be a great value with a cap over $100 million.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1119 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 3, 2016 7:21 pm

1993 Suns/Sonics Game 5 is on NBATV right now.
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Re: The 2016 Offseason Thread 

Post#1120 » by darealjuice » Wed Aug 3, 2016 7:56 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
darealjuice wrote:What's your guys thoughts on how we should approach the Alex Len contract situation going into next year? Obviously how he performs this year is going to have a big effect on it, but thus far he's been a pretty decent player capable of grabbing double doubles frequently when he plays his natural position. His efficiency took a bit of a dive last year, but when he was playing center earlier this year instead of power forward with Tyson clogging up the paint at the same time, his shooting percentages were at least respectable (Nov: 49%, Dec: 46%, Jan: 46%, Feb: 48%) before taking a big dive when Watson started playing the Twin Tower line up (Mar: 39%, Apr: 31%). After the all star break he was able to average 13/10/2 on 30 minutes a game under Watson, but he had a pretty ridiculous 2.7 turnovers per game, poor ORTG and DRTG of 92 and 108 respectively, and a TS% of only 45.7%. He definitely had his games late in the season where he did his thing, but we really need him to not be turning the ball over about as frequently as our guards do. I'm not really sure what kind of money we should be giving him if we wanted to keep him around.


I think many factors have to be in play, the biggest one being how he plays this year. If he doesn't improve his shooting (he HAS to be above 50% at a minimum unless he is taking midrange shots and 3s at a reasonable rate and is still high 40s overall).

It also depends on what other teams offer him in RFA and whether or not with our draft pick, a center is clearly the BPA. Also it depends on whether or not Chandler is still here and if so, whether or not he expresses that he wants out next summer.

We'd have to look at what teams need centers and who that will have cap room might offer him a contract. There can't be many teams that will need a center and even fewer that will pick Alex as the guy they want. If he wants to be here and doesn't want to go anywhere else and is playing well, then he may agree to extend for around $14 a year because that would pretty much put him right where the highest paid guys on our team are. If we definitely want to keep him around and he is playing well, that would be a great value with a cap over $100 million.


I have a feeling we'll see him shoot in the high 40's with the occasional mid-range jump shot, but I'd be pretty surprised to see him get over 50%. It's possible that he'd get a big contract offer in RFA next year, considering we just saw guys like Mozgov get paid $16M a year, and I'm not sure I'd want to match something like that and kill our flexibility even if he does perform at the level we want him to. I think I'd give him a go between $12M and up to about $18M, but I have apprehensions about making him the highest paid player on the team when I don't even think he'd be a top 5 player on the team going into the 17/18 season (assuming we keep both of Bledsoe/Knight).

I think you're right that a lot of it depends on where we are as a team next year and where we end up in the draft. If we're as bad as expected next year and end up with a top 5 pick, it's very unlikely that a center is going to be the best player on the board when there's elite talent at forward like Josh Jackson and Jayson Tatum or guard like Markelle Fultz and Dennis Smith Jr. on the board. If we end up being in the later tier of the top 10, a center like Marques Bolden or Jarret Allen could be talented enough for us to let Len walk if the price is wrong and chase FAs with the ~$30M in cap that we would have by renouncing his cap hold. To me, ideally we can dump Tyson's contract at some point before FA next year and keep Len at a similar cap hit while bringing in a potentially elite forward like Jackson or Tatum in the draft and continuing to build from there. I wouldn't be mad at all if Smith Jr. or Fultz were brought in though, especially if we end up dealing one of/both of Bledsoe and Knight, considering the talent at PG in the next draft is nowhere near as good.

We're in a tricky scenario right now where our only really elite potential player on the team is Booker, while guys like TJ and Len will likely be high level starters at best, and we pretty much know what we're getting from Bledsoe at this point in his career if he's healthy. Knight is interesting because he's talented, still pretty young, and has plenty of time to improve as a player, which he definitely could under Triano and Watson. Obviously I'm not including Bender and Chriss because we've yet to see them play actual NBA basketball.

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