2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[JoseRizal]

I don't really see Allen falling out of the rotation at all. I think people really underestimate how skilled he is and the fact that his body is nba ready despite being thin. Personally I think he can contribute right away and if Zubac eventually replaced Mozgov in the Lakers starting lineup, I'm sure Allen is capable of doing the same for us this season. I think he's already more capable of switching on the perimeter than Mozgov at the moment and may even be a better finisher at the rim but I guess we'll see.

Lopez would definitely start for the Lakers, not Zubac. Mozgov will start for us, not Allen, but eventually he will...

[TheBrooklynKidd]

I don't really see Allen falling out of the rotation at all. I think people really underestimate how skilled he is and the fact that his body is nba ready despite being thin. Personally I think he can contribute right away and if Zubac eventually replaced Mozgov in the Lakers starting lineup, I'm sure Allen is capable of doing the same for us this season. I think he's already more capable of switching on the perimeter than Mozgov at the moment and may even be a better finisher at the rim but I guess we'll see.

Lopez would definitely start for the Lakers, not Zubac. Mozgov will start for us, not Allen, but eventually he will...

I wasn't talking about Lopez obviously he will start I meant that Zubac replaced Mozgov in the Lakers starting lineup for a few games which means that Allen could do the same IMO since he's a much better prospect and could honestly become one of the most versatile pick and roll defenders the second he steps on the floor because of his length and athleticism.

[JoseRizal]

I don't really see Allen falling out of the rotation at all. I think people really underestimate how skilled he is and the fact that his body is nba ready despite being thin. Personally I think he can contribute right away and if Zubac eventually replaced Mozgov in the Lakers starting lineup, I'm sure Allen is capable of doing the same for us this season. I think he's already more capable of switching on the perimeter than Mozgov at the moment and may even be a better finisher at the rim but I guess we'll see.

Lopez would definitely start for the Lakers, not Zubac. Mozgov will start for us, not Allen, but eventually he will...

I wasn't talking about Lopez obviously he will start I meant that Zubac replaced Mozgov in the Lakers starting lineup for a few games which means that Allen could do the same IMO since he's a much better prospect and could honestly become one of the most versatile pick and roll defenders the second he steps on the floor because of his length and athleticism.

Noted on your clarification. Agree on the fact that Allen will eventually start. But as of the moment it will be Mozgov, unless we suddenly decide to pursue Noel and finally land an RFA.

[treiz]

Honestly I just don't see any reason for Nicholson to get minutes on this team at all unless someone misses a lot of games. He truly is garbage. IMO barring injury I can't see him even getting dressed for 90% of games.

We're a team severely devoid of talent, I don't think we can get picky about who gets playing time or not. If he practices well and Kenny decides to play him, no one on this board should have any qualms considering the level of our roster.

This is especially the case considering that injuries will happen during the season.

[Prokorov]

I don't really see Allen falling out of the rotation at all. I think people really underestimate how skilled he is and the fact that his body is nba ready despite being thin. Personally I think he can contribute right away and if Zubac eventually replaced Mozgov in the Lakers starting lineup, I'm sure Allen is capable of doing the same for us this season. I think he's already more capable of switching on the perimeter than Mozgov at the moment and may even be a better finisher at the rim but I guess we'll see.

I;m Soul Glo's number one fan. i lobbied for him early on in the draft process before it became clear we wouldnt pick in the teens.

He wont fall out of the rotation, kenny shuffly guys out to accomodate minutes best among players. id assume he plays closer to 72 games then 82 for this reason.

Ability is only one factor. being able to adapt to NBA systems on and off the court... thats a big part of it too. i dont think he would start before the last month or so. similar to levert/RHJ last year.

either way, you dont pass on noel because you have Allen. you dont pass on 23 year old lotto talent all-star projected defensive anchors. if we can get noel you get him and worry about the logjam later.

id expect Allens impact to be about what we saw from plumlee in year 1.

[Prokorov]

I'm still intrigued by what's going on with Noel. Can't he play both the 4 and 5? What's his ceiling as a player? I know he got the shaft in Philly and had a good run with the Mavs. What might've been the issue with the Nets not even wanting to meet with him?

Noel can play the 4 but it really doesnt make sense to play him there since his added value is a defensive anchor at center.

[Prokorov]

Alright Im done you guys have convinced me. Especially when you take into account the contract difference. Still think we need a stretch big though just not one at 20 mill a year.

Maybe Mirotic? On a one year "bet on myself" deal?

Also do you guys think Demarre starts at PF or comes off the bench? I'm assuming Kenny would rather start LeVert over RHJ.

Not sure what Kenny will do here. I have no issue with either LeVert or RHJ coming off of the bench, my thing is to the people who say Carroll should start at the 4, how is it that RHJ is considered undersized 6'7 220+ (we don't know what his weight is yet but he does appear to have gained some) yet Carroll at 6'8 215 (and wiry thin) will be just fine at PF? I don't get that.

If Carroll is healthy he should definitely start imo. The guy should have a field day in this offense.

I think it's because of the fact that he played a lot of PF for Toronto last season especially early in the year before ibaka and tucker were on the team. Also he would give us shooting at PF that RHJ can't provide. IMO he should be the first forward off the bench but closing games at the 4 with Lin/Russell/LeVert/Carroll/Mozgov(Allen)

Carroll only played 8 games at PF last year, Siakim started at PF prior to the ibaka deal.

[Prokorov]

Alright Im done you guys have convinced me. Especially when you take into account the contract difference. Still think we need a stretch big though just not one at 20 mill a year.

Maybe Mirotic? On a one year "bet on myself" deal?

Also do you guys think Demarre starts at PF or comes off the bench? I'm assuming Kenny would rather start LeVert over RHJ.

See, I'm the opposite, I think we definitely have enough bigs with shooting range for sure. Acy, Mosgov and Carroll I feel should be enough. Especially when you have 2 of them that have already shot a good % from 3. You don't even necessarily need 3 range, even a long 2 like what Mosgov has is good enough.

Heck, even Nicholson has some decent range, in his final year at Orlando he shot it at 36% on 2 attempts per game, and I feel that Atkinson will give him a shot this year.

I can't imagine Carroll starting at all, I think he would split minutes from the bench at the 3 and 4. Maybe at 20 minutes total, 10 at each position.

Honestly I just don't see any reason for Nicholson to get minutes on this team at all unless someone misses a lot of games. He truly is garbage. IMO barring injury I can't see him even getting dressed for 90% of games.

just because he isnt a good player doesnt mean he cant improve. we have him on a long term deal so its worth it to invest some time into him.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

I don't really see Allen falling out of the rotation at all. I think people really underestimate how skilled he is and the fact that his body is nba ready despite being thin. Personally I think he can contribute right away and if Zubac eventually replaced Mozgov in the Lakers starting lineup, I'm sure Allen is capable of doing the same for us this season. I think he's already more capable of switching on the perimeter than Mozgov at the moment and may even be a better finisher at the rim but I guess we'll see.

I;m Soul Glo's number one fan. i lobbied for him early on in the draft process before it became clear we wouldnt pick in the teens.

He wont fall out of the rotation, kenny shuffly guys out to accomodate minutes best among players. id assume he plays closer to 72 games then 82 for this reason.

Ability is only one factor. being able to adapt to NBA systems on and off the court... thats a big part of it too. i dont think he would start before the last month or so. similar to levert/RHJ last year.

either way, you dont pass on noel because you have Allen. you dont pass on 23 year old lotto talent all-star projected defensive anchors. if we can get noel you get him and worry about the logjam later.

id expect Allens impact to be about what we saw from plumlee in year 1.

Well we'll see what happens in training camp I don't see why he wouldn't be able to fit into our offensive system easily especially since he won't be posting up or handling the ball.

And I wasn't advocating passing on Noel only because of Allen. I would pass on Noel personally because I would rather maintain cap space for one of the forwards in next years RFA class. Either way it doesn't matter whether we want to pass on Noel or not because we can only offer him a contract around 17 mill and Dallas would have to be incredibly stupid not to match (which they're not).

[Prokorov]

Well we'll see what happens in training camp I don't see why he wouldn't be able to fit into our offensive system easily especially since he won't be posting up or handling the ball.

because few if any rookies translate seemlessly and quickly into complex offenses

And I wasn't advocating passing on Noel only because of Allen. I would pass on Noel personally because I would rather maintain cap space for one of the forwards in next years RFA class. Either way it doesn't matter whether we want to pass on Noel or not because we can only offer him a contract around 17 mill and Dallas would have to be incredibly stupid not to match (which they're not).

We can offer him more then 17 million by renouncing foye, cutting goodwin who is non gauranteed, and giving the max annual raises each year. making the AAV closer to 22-23 million.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

See, I'm the opposite, I think we definitely have enough bigs with shooting range for sure. Acy, Mosgov and Carroll I feel should be enough. Especially when you have 2 of them that have already shot a good % from 3. You don't even necessarily need 3 range, even a long 2 like what Mosgov has is good enough.

Heck, even Nicholson has some decent range, in his final year at Orlando he shot it at 36% on 2 attempts per game, and I feel that Atkinson will give him a shot this year.

I can't imagine Carroll starting at all, I think he would split minutes from the bench at the 3 and 4. Maybe at 20 minutes total, 10 at each position.

Honestly I just don't see any reason for Nicholson to get minutes on this team at all unless someone misses a lot of games. He truly is garbage. IMO barring injury I can't see him even getting dressed for 90% of games.

just because he isnt a good player doesnt mean he cant improve. we have him on a long term deal so its worth it to invest some time into him.

I doubt he improves. And I doubt he dresses for more than a quarter of the games barring injury. I also doubt he'll be on an NBA roster when his contract is over. He's easily last in our 4-5 rotation after Mozgov/RHJ/Booker/Allen/Carroll/Acy/Nicholson and I doubt we would sign a big that is worse than him.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Well we'll see what happens in training camp I don't see why he wouldn't be able to fit into our offensive system easily especially since he won't be posting up or handling the ball.

because few if any rookies translate seemlessly and quickly into complex offenses

And I wasn't advocating passing on Noel only because of Allen. I would pass on Noel personally because I would rather maintain cap space for one of the forwards in next years RFA class. Either way it doesn't matter whether we want to pass on Noel or not because we can only offer him a contract around 17 mill and Dallas would have to be incredibly stupid not to match (which they're not).

We can offer him more then 17 million by renouncing foye, cutting goodwin who is non gauranteed, and giving the max annual raises each year. making the AAV closer to 22-23 million.

We can't offer him a big enough contract to even make Dallas think twice about matching. All we would be doing is wasting everyone's time.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Honestly I just don't see any reason for Nicholson to get minutes on this team at all unless someone misses a lot of games. He truly is garbage. IMO barring injury I can't see him even getting dressed for 90% of games.

We're a team severely devoid of talent, I don't think we can get picky about who gets playing time or not. If he practices well and Kenny decides to play him, no one on this board should have any qualms considering the level of our roster.

This is especially the case considering that injuries will happen during the season.

You talk about the level of our roster but fail to acknowledge that Nicholson is last in the rotation which says a lot about his (lack of) talent.

[Prokorov]

I doubt he improves. And I doubt he dresses for more than a quarter of the games barring injury. I also doubt he'll be on an NBA roster when his contract is over. He's easily last in our 4-5 rotation after Mozgov/RHJ/Booker/Allen/Carroll/Acy/Nicholson and I doubt we would sign a big that is worse than him.

you doubting he improves even you end up being right is not a reason to ignore trying to develop a 26 year old player signed to a long term deal. It is the smartest move for the franchise to try and develop and improve him whether its to play here or to make him easier to move later.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

I doubt he improves. And I doubt he dresses for more than a quarter of the games barring injury. I also doubt he'll be on an NBA roster when his contract is over. He's easily last in our 4-5 rotation after Mozgov/RHJ/Booker/Allen/Carroll/Acy/Nicholson and I doubt we would sign a big that is worse than him.

you doubting he improves even you end up being right is not a reason to ignore trying to develop a 26 year old player signed to a long term deal. It is the smartest move for the franchise to try and develop and improve him whether its to play here or to make him easier to move later.

You're just saying obvious things. My only argument was that he will be last in the rotation barring some dramatic improvement, meaning he won't suit up for the vast majority of games. Which is a fact. I never said don't try to make him better I said I doubt he gets better.

[Prokorov]

Well we'll see what happens in training camp I don't see why he wouldn't be able to fit into our offensive system easily especially since he won't be posting up or handling the ball.

because few if any rookies translate seemlessly and quickly into complex offenses

And I wasn't advocating passing on Noel only because of Allen. I would pass on Noel personally because I would rather maintain cap space for one of the forwards in next years RFA class. Either way it doesn't matter whether we want to pass on Noel or not because we can only offer him a contract around 17 mill and Dallas would have to be incredibly stupid not to match (which they're not).

We can offer him more then 17 million by renouncing foye, cutting goodwin who is non gauranteed, and giving the max annual raises each year. making the AAV closer to 22-23 million.

We can't offer him a big enough contract to even make Dallas think twice about matching. All we would be doing is wasting everyone's time.

i think 4/86 is certainly enough to make dallas think about it.

if we renounce foye and waive goodwins non-gauranteed deal that gives us 19.1M in cap room. with annual raises for a player with less then 6 years service time that maps out to:

$19,100,000
$20,628,000
$22,278,240
$24,060,500

total Value: $86,066,739
Average Annual Value: $21,516,684

[Prokorov]

I doubt he improves. And I doubt he dresses for more than a quarter of the games barring injury. I also doubt he'll be on an NBA roster when his contract is over. He's easily last in our 4-5 rotation after Mozgov/RHJ/Booker/Allen/Carroll/Acy/Nicholson and I doubt we would sign a big that is worse than him.

you doubting he improves even you end up being right is not a reason to ignore trying to develop a 26 year old player signed to a long term deal. It is the smartest move for the franchise to try and develop and improve him whether its to play here or to make him easier to move later.

You're just saying obvious things. My only argument was that he will be last in the rotation barring some dramatic improvement, meaning he won't suit up for the vast majority of games. Which is a fact. I never said don't try to make him better I said I doubt he gets better.

I dont agree it is a fact. I think he will play 40-50 games. if this was a normal situation where we were gunning to win as much as possible or make the playoffs id agree with you. but that isnt the case here.

they will shufle guys in and out of the rotation like we did last year. i think they will move him between forward and center, work on all aspects of his game in real game minutes. i know he is viewed as a bumb, but it makes sense to invest minutes into him

[Roy Tarpley]

I think Foye is already off the books - I thought Bobby Marks had said that there are no free agent cap holds.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

because few if any rookies translate seemlessly and quickly into complex offenses



We can offer him more then 17 million by renouncing foye, cutting goodwin who is non gauranteed, and giving the max annual raises each year. making the AAV closer to 22-23 million.

We can't offer him a big enough contract to even make Dallas think twice about matching. All we would be doing is wasting everyone's time.

i think 4/86 is certainly enough to make dallas think about it.

if we renounce foye and waive goodwins non-gauranteed deal that gives us 19.1M in cap room. with annual raises for a player with less then 6 years service time that maps out to:

$19,100,000
$20,628,000
$22,278,240
$24,060,500

total Value: $86,066,739
Average Annual Value: $21,516,684

Lol oh yea I'm sure Mark Cuban is gonna be like "Nerlens Noel?!?! The versatile defender and former lottery pick?!?! For 20 million less than the max he should be getting?!? Absolutely not! That 2 million dollar difference per year that the Nets gave him by renouncing Foye is just too much!! We're going to let them sign him after we gave up assets to acquire him."

Mark Cuban would never let another team steal one of his player especially one as talented as Noel. There were reports that said they would match all the way up to the max.

[treiz]

You talk about the level of our roster but fail to acknowledge that Nicholson is last in the rotation which says a lot about his (lack of) talent.

It goes without saying that Nicholson is last in the rotation, which is why I brought him up in the first place. But that doesn't change that we need everybody on this roster to contribute in order to at least get better than the 20 wins this year.

Nicholson was only on the team for a few months. How can you evaluate a player on such a small sample size? Especially when in Orlando he showed that he can be decent contributor off the bench. Like I said, maybe given an offseason of work with Kenny can help him be a good part of our team. We shouldn't write anybody off just because of how low the talent level on the roster is.