The 2016 Offseason Thread

[letsgosuns]

I can respect that position. What about our LAL top 5 protected 2019 pick + Stephen Zimmerman?

The issue with that is three years from now, the Lakers core of Russell, Ingram, and Randle, plus whoever else they have could be very good. So that pick might not be a lottery pick or anywhere close to that. Also, since that pick is three years away and Knight can contribute to any team right now, I imagine the Suns would want an asset they do not have to wait at least three years for.

Here is the key though. The Suns traded the 2015 Lakers pick top-5 protected to acquire Knight. So why would they trade Knight for a weaker asset now, especially with him signed for the next four seasons at a bargain compared to all the new contracts. In addition, that pick, now owned by the 76ers, is top-3 protected for 2017 and becomes unprotected in 2018. It has implications on the the 2019 top-5 protected pick the Magic own. According to this site: [http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Magic.htm], if the 2015 Lakers pick that the Suns traded to the 76ers for Knight does not convey by 2017, then the 2019 Lakers top-5 pick the Magic own turns into second round picks in 2017 and 2018.

There is a legitimate chance that Lakers pick the 76ers own will not convey until 2018. Then the Suns would in essence have traded Knight for two second round picks. There is no way the Suns would take a chance like that. And as far as Zimmerman goes, the Suns already have two 7'1" centers, drafted two new power forwards, and have a third string center on the team as well. So I see no reason they would want another center who was just drafted number 41. If they were interested in that guy, they could have drafted him at number 34 where they drafted Ulis. So ultimately, the trade is going to have to involve the Magic's 2017 pick with very little or no protection. Also, assuming Knight plays well, wouldn't the Magic be competing for a playoff spot anyway? If they do not make the playoffs next year, do you really they think they would be any worse than a mid to low lottery team.

I like Knight, but I just don't think he is worth a pick with little to no protections. I understand your gripe about our 2019 pick though. In my book, Knight is worth a top 10 protected pick & a young prospect (Elfrid). Also, I highly doubt Ulis sees the court much for you guys anyway with your roster as is and I don't think a Payton trade changes that. Once you add in either Harkless or Aminu, I think that is paying a premium for Knight.

The Magic and Suns do not make a good trade partner regarding Knight then. What the Suns would want, the Magic will not give up. What the Magic are willing to give up, the Suns do not need.

[bwgood77]

What's your guys thoughts on how we should approach the Alex Len contract situation going into next year? Obviously how he performs this year is going to have a big effect on it, but thus far he's been a pretty decent player capable of grabbing double doubles frequently when he plays his natural position. His efficiency took a bit of a dive last year, but when he was playing center earlier this year instead of power forward with Tyson clogging up the paint at the same time, his shooting percentages were at least respectable (Nov: 49%, Dec: 46%, Jan: 46%, Feb: 48%) before taking a big dive when Watson started playing the Twin Tower line up (Mar: 39%, Apr: 31%). After the all star break he was able to average 13/10/2 on 30 minutes a game under Watson, but he had a pretty ridiculous 2.7 turnovers per game, poor ORTG and DRTG of 92 and 108 respectively, and a TS% of only 45.7%. He definitely had his games late in the season where he did his thing, but we really need him to not be turning the ball over about as frequently as our guards do. I'm not really sure what kind of money we should be giving him if we wanted to keep him around.

I think many factors have to be in play, the biggest one being how he plays this year. If he doesn't improve his shooting (he HAS to be above 50% at a minimum unless he is taking midrange shots and 3s at a reasonable rate and is still high 40s overall).

It also depends on what other teams offer him in RFA and whether or not with our draft pick, a center is clearly the BPA. Also it depends on whether or not Chandler is still here and if so, whether or not he expresses that he wants out next summer.

We'd have to look at what teams need centers and who that will have cap room might offer him a contract. There can't be many teams that will need a center and even fewer that will pick Alex as the guy they want. If he wants to be here and doesn't want to go anywhere else and is playing well, then he may agree to extend for around $14 a year because that would pretty much put him right where the highest paid guys on our team are. If we definitely want to keep him around and he is playing well, that would be a great value with a cap over $100 million.

I have a feeling we'll see him shoot in the high 40's with the occasional mid-range jump shot, but I'd be pretty surprised to see him get over 50%. It's possible that he'd get a big contract offer in RFA next year, considering we just saw guys like Mozgov get paid $16M a year, and I'm not sure I'd want to match something like that and kill our flexibility even if he does perform at the level we want him to. I think I'd give him a go between $12M and up to about $18M, but I have apprehensions about making him the highest paid player on the team when I don't even think he'd be a top 5 player on the team going into the 17/18 season (assuming we keep both of Bledsoe/Knight).

I think you're right that a lot of it depends on where we are as a team next year and where we end up in the draft. If we're as bad as expected next year and end up with a top 5 pick, it's very unlikely that a center is going to be the best player on the board when there's elite talent at forward like Josh Jackson and Jayson Tatum or guard like Markelle Fultz and Dennis Smith Jr. on the board. If we end up being in the later tier of the top 10, a center like Marques Bolden or Jarret Allen could be talented enough for us to let Len walk if the price is wrong and chase FAs with the ~$30M in cap that we would have by renouncing his cap hold. To me, ideally we can dump Tyson's contract at some point before FA next year and keep Len at a similar cap hit while bringing in a potentially elite forward like Jackson or Tatum in the draft and continuing to build from there. I wouldn't be mad at all if Smith Jr. or Fultz were brought in though, especially if we end up dealing one of/both of Bledsoe and Knight, considering the talent at PG in the next draft is nowhere near as good.

We're in a tricky scenario right now where our only really elite potential player on the team is Booker, while guys like TJ and Len will likely be high level starters at best, and we pretty much know what we're getting from Bledsoe at this point in his career if he's healthy. Knight is interesting because he's talented, still pretty young, and has plenty of time to improve as a player, which he definitely could under Triano and Watson. Obviously I'm not including Bender and Chriss because we've yet to see them play actual NBA basketball.

I can't think of too many teams who might be in the market for a center next year and might have cap space. I think the list may be something like the Pacers, Rockets, Mavericks, Hornets and Nets. The Pelicans could, but they have quite a bit of money tied up in Asik for awhile.

But you also have Amir Johnson, Tiago Splitter, Zaza Pachulia, Javale McGee and then some older guys like Bogut, and then the other RFA's in Cody Zeller, Nerlens Noel, Steven Adams, Kelly Olynyk, Rudy Gobert, Mason Plumlee and Joffrey Lauvergne.

There are also some vets and teams with more than one center so there could be some trades, like Tyson Chandler for example.

[bwgood77]

I like Knight, but I just don't think he is worth a pick with little to no protections. I understand your gripe about our 2019 pick though. In my book, Knight is worth a top 10 protected pick & a young prospect (Elfrid). Also, I highly doubt Ulis sees the court much for you guys anyway with your roster as is and I don't think a Payton trade changes that. Once you add in either Harkless or Aminu, I think that is paying a premium for Knight.

Yeah, you're right. The Suns could use a solid true pg backup to Bledsoe with his injury concerns and a top 10 protected pick from a team that might be on the fringe of the playoffs is about the best package they could hope for. Any unprotected pick would probably be one likely to land in the 20s so it wouldn't hold as much value.

[letsgosuns]

I like Knight, but I just don't think he is worth a pick with little to no protections. I understand your gripe about our 2019 pick though. In my book, Knight is worth a top 10 protected pick & a young prospect (Elfrid). Also, I highly doubt Ulis sees the court much for you guys anyway with your roster as is and I don't think a Payton trade changes that. Once you add in either Harkless or Aminu, I think that is paying a premium for Knight.

Yeah, you're right. The Suns could use a solid true pg backup to Bledsoe with his injury concerns and a top 10 protected pick from a team that might be on the fringe of the playoffs is about the best package they could hope for. Any unprotected pick would probably be one likely to land in the 20s so it wouldn't hold as much value.

Oh I am unrealistic huh? The Suns traded a 28 year old Dragic who publicly demanded a trade, was playing terrible, and was only signed for a few more months, and got back a 2018 top-7 protected pick that becomes unprotected in 2019, AND a 2021 pick completely unprotected. Excuse me for thinking a 24 year old Knight signed for four more seasons at a major bargain and has only spoken very highly of the organization is worth one unprotected or top-3 protected pick. I fail to see where I am being unrealistic. I think it is you that is incredibly undervaluing Knight. The Magic are the team that wants Knight, and if they want him, they do not get to trade the Suns weak assets for a 24 year old guard who averages 20 pts, 5 ast, and 4 rbs.

The Suns themselves traded a far superior Lakers pick to get Knight in the first place, plus Ennis, a rookie taken with the 18th pick, and Plumlee, the team's backup center. You really think they would not demand more for Knight when Markieff got the Suns a top-9 protected pick and Dragic got a top-7 pick and unprotected pick. Give me a break.

[bwgood77]

I like Knight, but I just don't think he is worth a pick with little to no protections. I understand your gripe about our 2019 pick though. In my book, Knight is worth a top 10 protected pick & a young prospect (Elfrid). Also, I highly doubt Ulis sees the court much for you guys anyway with your roster as is and I don't think a Payton trade changes that. Once you add in either Harkless or Aminu, I think that is paying a premium for Knight.

Yeah, you're right. The Suns could use a solid true pg backup to Bledsoe with his injury concerns and a top 10 protected pick from a team that might be on the fringe of the playoffs is about the best package they could hope for. Any unprotected pick would probably be one likely to land in the 20s so it wouldn't hold as much value.

Oh I am unrealistic huh? The Suns traded a 28 year old Dragic who publicly demanded a trade, was playing terrible, and was only signed for a few more months, and got back a 2018 top-7 protected pick that becomes unprotected in 2019, AND a 2021 pick completely unprotected. Excuse me for thinking a 24 year old Knight signed for four more seasons at a major bargain and has only spoken very highly of the organization is worth one unprotected or top-3 protected pick. I fail to see where I am being unrealistic. I think it is you that is incredibly undervaluing Knight. The Magic are the team that wants Knight, and if they want him, they do not get to trade the Suns weak assets for a 24 year old guard who averages 20 pts, 5 ast, and 4 rbs.

The Suns themselves traded a far superior Lakers pick to get Knight in the first place, plus Ennis, a rookie taken with the 18th pick, and Plumlee, the team's backup center. You really think they would not demand more for Knight when Markieff got the Suns a top-9 protected pick and Dragic got a top-7 pick and unprotected pick. Give me a break.

We already had this discussion and we disagree. You don't need to keep mentioning Knight's empty stats. The landscape of the nba is changing and rookie contracts are gold in this new increased cap era so teams will be hesitant to trade first round picks. Dragic was all nba and Nash is a hall of fame player. Knight has never been to an all star game and is not a true pg or an ideal sg. Point guards are abundant in this league and the next draft class is full of them. There are a lot of good shooters in this league and Knight is a guy that can't run the point because he can't even get close to a 2 to 1 ast/to ratio and so as a shooting guard he is far from ideal at 6'3 shooting 41% for his career and 36% from 3.

When he was younger with more upside and hopeful promise, he was traded for Brandon Jennings and Michael Carter Williams, neither of who is very good.

I have high hopes that he will improve now that he is in a better situation and maybe his value will go up from where it is, where we could get a decent draft pick for him or just keep him if he adds positive value and reaches the PER of an average player.

I wonder if Brandon Knight was on another team, if you'd trade an unprotected pick for him. A top 5 protected pick? A top 10 protected pick?

[letsgosuns]

Yeah, you're right. The Suns could use a solid true pg backup to Bledsoe with his injury concerns and a top 10 protected pick from a team that might be on the fringe of the playoffs is about the best package they could hope for. Any unprotected pick would probably be one likely to land in the 20s so it wouldn't hold as much value. Sometimes we do have unrealistic posters regarding how much our players could net. Some of the trades posted that people think could net Cousins are extremely unrealistic as well.

Oh I am unrealistic huh? The Suns traded a 28 year old Dragic who publicly demanded a trade, was playing terrible, and was only signed for a few more months, and got back a 2018 top-7 protected pick that becomes unprotected in 2019, AND a 2021 pick completely unprotected. Excuse me for thinking a 24 year old Knight signed for four more seasons at a major bargain and has only spoken very highly of the organization is worth one unprotected or top-3 protected pick. I fail to see where I am being unrealistic. I think it is you that is incredibly undervaluing Knight. The Magic are the team that wants Knight, and if they want him, they do not get to trade the Suns weak assets for a 24 year old guard who averages 20 pts, 5 ast, and 4 rbs.

The Suns themselves traded a far superior Lakers pick to get Knight in the first place, plus Ennis, a rookie taken with the 18th pick, and Plumlee, the team's backup center. You really think they would not demand more for Knight when Markieff got the Suns a top-9 protected pick and Dragic got a top-7 pick and unprotected pick. Give me a break.

We already had this discussion and we disagree. You don't need to keep spouting out this nonsense and mentioning Knight's empty stats. The landscape of the nba is changing and rookie contracts are gold in this new increased cap era so teams will be hesitant to trade first round picks. Dragic was all nba and Nash is a hall of fame player. Knight has never been to an all star game and is not a true pg or an ideal sg. Point guards are abundant in this league and the next draft class is full of them. There are a lot of good shooters in this league and Knight is a guy that can't run the point because he can't even get close to a 2 to 1 ast/to ratio and so as a shooting guard he is far from ideal at 6'3 shooting 41% for his career and 36% from 3.

This is the thing with what you are saying. You basically apologize to a random poster about some fans being unrealistic which is a direct insult to me. Now you say I am "mentioning empty stats." Yet everything I said is a fact. Personally, I probably want Knight off the team more than you do. I do not like him at all. But that does not mean I do not recognize his value in a league where Mathew Dellavedova is getting almost 10 million per season, Dragic is worth two first round picks, and Markieff is worth a lottery pick.

And Dragic was all-NBA? Yeah one time in eight seasons and that was two years ago. He has had one good season in 8 years and dropped off dramatically since that season. The season he was traded he was playing really badly. Dragic has been to how many all-star games? ZERO. And why are you mentioning Nash? What does he have to do with this conversation. Btw, before you even said all this, I already concluded my discussion with the Magic poster by saying the Suns and Magic do not make ideal trading partners for Knight and that is where it stands.

[bwgood77]

Oh I am unrealistic huh? The Suns traded a 28 year old Dragic who publicly demanded a trade, was playing terrible, and was only signed for a few more months, and got back a 2018 top-7 protected pick that becomes unprotected in 2019, AND a 2021 pick completely unprotected. Excuse me for thinking a 24 year old Knight signed for four more seasons at a major bargain and has only spoken very highly of the organization is worth one unprotected or top-3 protected pick. I fail to see where I am being unrealistic. I think it is you that is incredibly undervaluing Knight. The Magic are the team that wants Knight, and if they want him, they do not get to trade the Suns weak assets for a 24 year old guard who averages 20 pts, 5 ast, and 4 rbs.

The Suns themselves traded a far superior Lakers pick to get Knight in the first place, plus Ennis, a rookie taken with the 18th pick, and Plumlee, the team's backup center. You really think they would not demand more for Knight when Markieff got the Suns a top-9 protected pick and Dragic got a top-7 pick and unprotected pick. Give me a break.

We already had this discussion and we disagree. You don't need to keep spouting out this nonsense and mentioning Knight's empty stats. The landscape of the nba is changing and rookie contracts are gold in this new increased cap era so teams will be hesitant to trade first round picks. Dragic was all nba and Nash is a hall of fame player. Knight has never been to an all star game and is not a true pg or an ideal sg. Point guards are abundant in this league and the next draft class is full of them. There are a lot of good shooters in this league and Knight is a guy that can't run the point because he can't even get close to a 2 to 1 ast/to ratio and so as a shooting guard he is far from ideal at 6'3 shooting 41% for his career and 36% from 3.

This is the thing with what you are saying. You basically apologize to a random poster about some fans being unrealistic which is a direct insult to me. Now you say I am "spouting this nonsense and mentioning empty stats." Yet everything I said is a fact. Personally, I probably want Knight off the team more than you do. I do not like him at all. But that does not mean I do not recognize his value in a league where Mathew Dellavedova is getting almost 10 million per season, Dragic is worth two first round picks, and Markieff is worth a lottery pick.

And Dragic was all-NBA? Yeah one time in eight seasons and that was two years ago. He has had one good season in 8 years and dropped off dramatically since that season. The season he was traded he was playing really badly. Dragic has been to how many all-star games? ZERO. And why are you mentioning Nash? What does he have to do with this conversation. Btw, before you even said all this, I already concluded my discussion with the Magic poster by saying the Suns and Magic do not make ideal trading partners for Knight and that is where it stands.

Yes, Dragic was all nba the very season before Miami traded for him. He was thought of highly that year. Knight was traded by two teams in four years for Brandon Jennings and Michael Carter Williams, not too good of players.

I know you had already concluded your conversation with him and I was concluding mine to him, and then you responded to my conclusion to discuss this topic AGAIN. I know you like to discuss the same thing over and over and over again. I generally don't.

[letsgosuns]

We already had this discussion and we disagree. You don't need to keep spouting out this nonsense and mentioning Knight's empty stats. The landscape of the nba is changing and rookie contracts are gold in this new increased cap era so teams will be hesitant to trade first round picks. Dragic was all nba and Nash is a hall of fame player. Knight has never been to an all star game and is not a true pg or an ideal sg. Point guards are abundant in this league and the next draft class is full of them. There are a lot of good shooters in this league and Knight is a guy that can't run the point because he can't even get close to a 2 to 1 ast/to ratio and so as a shooting guard he is far from ideal at 6'3 shooting 41% for his career and 36% from 3.

This is the thing with what you are saying. You basically apologize to a random poster about some fans being unrealistic which is a direct insult to me. Now you say I am "mentioning empty stats." Yet everything I said is a fact. Personally, I probably want Knight off the team more than you do. I do not like him at all. But that does not mean I do not recognize his value in a league where Mathew Dellavedova is getting almost 10 million per season, Dragic is worth two first round picks, and Markieff is worth a lottery pick.

And Dragic was all-NBA? Yeah one time in eight seasons and that was two years ago. He has had one good season in 8 years and dropped off dramatically since that season. The season he was traded he was playing really badly. Dragic has been to how many all-star games? ZERO. And why are you mentioning Nash? What does he have to do with this conversation. Btw, before you even said all this, I already concluded my discussion with the Magic poster by saying the Suns and Magic do not make ideal trading partners for Knight and that is where it stands.

Yes, Dragic was all nba the very season before Miami traded for him. He was thought of highly that year. Knight was traded by two teams in four years for Brandon Jennings and Michael Carter Williams, not too good of players.

I know you had already concluded your conversation with him and I was concluding mine to him, and then you responded to my conclusion to discuss this topic AGAIN. I know you like to discuss the same thing over and over and over again. I generally don't.

When the Pistons traded Knight for Jennings in 2013, Jennings was 23 and coming off a season where he averaged about 18 pts, 7 ast, and 3 rbs per game. He was looked at highly at the time. Not to mention, but Khris Middleton was part of that trade too. Middleton is now a major part of the Bucks' core and he has the same contract as Knight. Is he not good because the player the Pistons got back in the trade for him is not that good? Not at all.

Then the Bucks traded Knight but got back Michael-Carter Williams, who was the 2014 rookie of the year. MCW averaged 17 pts, 6 ast, and 6 rbs his rookie year. Those are good statistics. People were high on him. Plus the Bucks also got Ennis and Plumlee. They obviously must think highly of Plumlee because they just gave him a 4 year, 52 million dollar contract.

If you want to judge Knight on the premise of who he was traded for, go ahead. The Diamondbacks traded Karim Garcia for Luis Gonzalez and cash in 1998. I think everyone can agree that might be the most lopsided trade in Arizona sports history. Hindsight is 20/20. Those players Knight was traded for were highly valued at the time. How they are valued now is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what Knight is doing. Btw, with Knight that season, the Bucks were 30-23. They went 11-18 after they traded him and finished the season 41-41. Last season, their record was 33-49. They were better with Knight. No denying that. If the Suns were willing give up Ennis, Plumlee, and that highly coveted Lakers pick, then they obviously believed in him.

Edit* I forgot to say the reason I responded "again" was because you insulted me and not because the topic warranted further discussion.

[Saberestar]

Regarding Knight I think it's great that he seems to embrace whatever role Watson is gonna give him on the team for next season. That's really important and if he becomes our sixth man he can be one of the best in the entire league.

He can be our Jet Terry / Jamal Crawford type of player coming from the bench but playing nearly 30 mpg.

He isn't my favorite player by any means but I seriously think that he can be effective and valuable on that type of role.

[NTB]

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[bwgood77]

Regarding Knight I think it's great that he seems to embrace whatever role Watson is gonna give him on the team for next season. That's really important and if he becomes our sixth man he can be one of the best in the entire league.

He can be our Jet Terry / Jamal Crawford type of player coming from the bench but playing nearly 30 mpg.

He isn't my favorite player by any means but I seriously think that he can be effective and valuable on that type of role.

That's my hope as well, and I think that would be his best role. Ideally I don't like him as the primary ball handler (I'd even prefer Booker when they share the court or Ulis if he gets out there) but when he does handle the ball to have a little more court awareness and look for others first, yet cut down on turnovers and take the shots he is given. I'd like to not see too much over dribbling.

[Jdiddy701]

Knight coming off the bench is a deadly weapon. If it all works out, Suns have a good thing going on.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[letsgosuns]

Honestly, if you do not understand that what you said is a plain insult, Idk what to tell you.

This is exactly what you said: " Sometimes we do have unrealistic posters regarding how much our players could net." Sounds like an attack on my opinion by you claiming that what I said is wrong just because it disagrees with your opinion. You are virtually telling this poster to ignore my opinion and forget about what I said. Sorry but you are not some authoritative dictator where what you say goes. I explained my reasoning as to why I think what I said is realistic. Plus I gave a few examples of comparable situations where unprotected or low-protected picks changed hands.

If you do not think Knight is worth an unprotected or top-3 protected pick specifically from the Magic (remember I pointed out he was not worth that same type of pick from the 76ers, Lakers, or Nets), then so be it. But why add on to your own conversation with the Magic poster that my opinion is unrealistic. You could have left that out completely.

[bwgood77]

Honestly, if you do not understand that what you said is a plain insult, Idk what to tell you.

This is exactly what you said: " Sometimes we do have unrealistic posters regarding how much our players could net." Sounds like an attack on my opinion by you claiming that what I said is wrong just because it disagrees with your opinion. You are virtually telling this poster to ignore my opinion and forget about what I said. Sorry but you are not some authoritative dictator where what you say goes. I explained my reasoning as to why I think what I said is realistic. Plus I gave a few examples of comparable situations where unprotected or low-protected picks changed hands.

If you do not think Knight is worth an unprotected or top-3 protected pick specifically from the Magic (remember I pointed out he was not worth that same type of pick from the 76ers, Lakers, or Nets), then so be it. But why add on to your own conversation with the Magic poster that my opinion is unrealistic. You could have left that out completely.

I thought his trade proposal was more than reasonable and you kept responding as if you spoke for our whole forum and I didn't think that was the case so I responded as well with my thoughts.

I didn't insult you but simply said I think his deal was one I would do. It looks like in another thread that many agree with you that he is worth an unprotected first and that if he was on another team they'd likely give up an unprotected first for him. That's fine to have an opinion and I welcome all opinions but don't act as if you speak for our whole forum. You stated we wouldn't be good trade partners if they offered a top 10 protected, Elfrid Payton and a deal in which we also got Harkless and Aminu. I disagreed and felt if anything that was an overpay for Knight, particularly with Bledsoe's past injury history and wanting to see mostly Booker at SG and not liking Knight at PG.

[letsgosuns]

Honestly, if you do not understand that what you said is a plain insult, Idk what to tell you.

This is exactly what you said: " Sometimes we do have unrealistic posters regarding how much our players could net." Sounds like an attack on my opinion by you claiming that what I said is wrong just because it disagrees with your opinion. You are virtually telling this poster to ignore my opinion and forget about what I said. Sorry but you are not some authoritative dictator where what you say goes. I explained my reasoning as to why I think what I said is realistic. Plus I gave a few examples of comparable situations where unprotected or low-protected picks changed hands.

If you do not think Knight is worth an unprotected or top-3 protected pick specifically from the Magic (remember I pointed out he was not worth that same type of pick from the 76ers, Lakers, or Nets), then so be it. But why add on to your own conversation with the Magic poster that my opinion is unrealistic. You could have left that out completely.

I was just telling him I thought his trade proposal was more than reasonable and you kept responding as if you spoke for our whole forum and I didn't think that was the case so I responded as well with my thoughts.

I didn't insult you but simply said I think some here may overvalue what he is worth. It looks like in another thread that many agree with you that he is worth an unprotected first and that if he was on another team they'd likely give up an unprotected first for him. That's fine to have an opinion and I welcome all opinions but don't act as if you speak for our whole forum. You stated we wouldn't be good trade partners if they offered a top 10 protected, Elfrid Payton and a deal in which we also got Harkless and Aminu. I disagreed and felt if anything that was an overpay for Knight, particularly with Bledsoe's past injury history and wanting to see mostly Booker at SG and not liking Knight at PG.

I acted like I was speaking for the entire forum? Idk what to say anymore. If that is what you think then you are seriously misinterpreting my posts. Did I ever say something like "Everyone on this forum believes..." Where are you coming off with this. And stop littering this forum with arguments? I do not even post that much. Who am I arguing with? I had a discussion with this poster. We never said anything remotely argumentative. We were analyzing ideas.

This is part of my first response to his proposed trade for Knight:

"Here is another trade that I would rather do. Knight straight up for the Magic's 2017 first round pick unprotected. If that is too risky in case it is the number one pick (I highly doubt that), then do top-3 protected. Top-10 protected is not good enough. Markieff Morris was traded for a top-9 protected pick and Knight is worth far more than him. I personally would demand that no protection be put on the pick because the Suns would be handing the Magic a 24 year old point guard that averages 20 pts, 5 ast, and 4 rbs signed for four more years without taking a player from their roster."

See how I wrote "trade that I would rather do" at the beginning. I did not write this is a trade every Suns fan on this forum wants. No offense but these accusations by you against me that I litter the forum with arguments and act like I am speaking for everyone here are ridiculous. And you are the one that is constantly quoting me. It is as if any time I post on here you feel compelled to respond to everything I say. I rarely if ever quote you unless I am responding to you quoting me in the first place.

Furthermore, my entire point as to why I believe Knight is worth at least one top-3 protected from the Magic is because the Magic are clearly trying to win now. They want an upgrade at the point guard spot, and based on their talent level, should be at worst the seventh pick in the draft. I think Knight is worth the seventh pick. If you make the pick top ten protected, you give up that chance. So I offered top-3 protected because teams either jump into the top three or drop down from their spot.

The Suns traded the 13th pick, the 28th pick, a future second round pick, and Bogdanovich for the 8th pick this year. There were rumors the Suns were going to sell one of their late picks anyway and future second round picks are like whatever. So the trade was really about the 13th pick and Bogdanovich. If that is all it took to get the 8th pick of the draft and draft Chriss, then shouldn't Knight be able to fetch more than that? I think so. It is not like Bogdanovich, who is less than one year younger than Knight and has unimpressive averages in his career so far, has accomplished anything in NBA yet.

[bwgood77]

Lets try and move on and talk about something else. I think we've exhausted this one. This thread is supposed to be about the general off season. A guy asked about a trade, and I had a different opinion about whether or not his offer was reasonable. You said it's not enough and we are not good trade partners then, so I gave my opinion, responding to him, not you. If they want an upgrade at pg, Knight isn't that. Payton is a better passer, defender and only a slightly worse shooter, surprisingly, and on top of that, makes far less.

[letsgosuns]

letsgo, I've said multiple times to drop it, and I'm done trying to reason with you, and I don't think anyone wants to see it anymore. All these posts should go in the specific Brandon Knight thread, but I am tired of it and I imagine many others are as well. This is about the general offseason. A guy offered a trade. You said it's not enough and we are not good trade partners then, so I gave my opinion, responding to him, not you. If they want an upgrade at pg, Knight isn't that. Payton is a better passer, defender and only a slightly worse shooter, surprisingly, and on top of that, makes far less.

This has nothing to do with why you attacked me personally. You seem to either not understand, or do not care, or do not want to admit that you insulted me in your response to him. But whatever, it is clear that you have some sort of issue with me and believe people are tired of me and all I do is argue and dominate the forum even though I do not post that much.

Anyway, here is a general offseason topic. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-russell-westbrook-000000582.html That would be a game changer if the Thunder agree to an extension with Westbrook right now and lock him up.

[bwgood77]

letsgo, I've said multiple times to drop it, and I'm done trying to reason with you, and I don't think anyone wants to see it anymore. All these posts should go in the specific Brandon Knight thread, but I am tired of it and I imagine many others are as well. This is about the general offseason. A guy offered a trade. You said it's not enough and we are not good trade partners then, so I gave my opinion, responding to him, not you. If they want an upgrade at pg, Knight isn't that. Payton is a better passer, defender and only a slightly worse shooter, surprisingly, and on top of that, makes far less.

This has nothing to do with why you attacked me personally. You seem to either not understand, or do not care, or do not want to admit that you insulted me in your response to him. But whatever, it is clear that you have some sort of issue with me and believe people are tired of me and all I do is argue and dominate the forum even though I do not post that much.

Anyway, here is a general offseason topic. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-russell-westbrook-000000582.html That would be a game changer if the Thunder agree to an extension with Westbrook right now and lock him up.

Once again, I did not attack you personally but was addressing the Magic fan and not you and did not mention you or personally attack you or say anything about you but stated my opinion on his trade offer. About Westbrook, it is being discussed in the Around the NBA thread.

I am glad you've changed your tune regarding Knight though. It's quite the turn to demanding an unprotected pick for him from this:

The other four guys, I cannot express how much I loathe the fact they are on the Suns. I would dump Bledsoe, Knight, Markieff, and Tucker for second round picks if I could. I hate the way they play basketball. Career losers.

[bwgood77]

http://www.slamonline.com/the-magazine/features/devin-booker-rookie-season-feature-interview-phoenix-suns/#5U8DJHddx9bjTfXg.97

Just read the whole piece. I had seen the quotes but hadn't read the whole thing yet. Great read.

[kennydorglas]

Oh boy
RWB running solo will be one of the ugliest thing I can ever remember.
With Durant he already jacked a ton of non-sense shots... oh boy

This is Kobe after Shaq left all over again (RWB has a better supporting cast, but he just doesnt care)