Markelle Fultz Discussion III: For Fultz and going forward (see 2017 draft thread for trade discussion)

[phifans]

Just admit it. Its hard to "win" this trade considering how good Tatum looks now in his rookie season.

[LloydFree]

who is to say Tatum can't be a Batman? Or hell Kyrie? Plus we have no clue where that pick will fall...they could get it from that.
I also wish sixers fans would stop acting like our guys have arrived already...Embiid still can't be trusted full time, Simmons has to learn how to shoot and Fultz haven't even played yet.

Again if you are going to believe that Embiid will stay relatively healthy, Simmons will learn how to score more, and Fultz is at the very least a good player...you gotta be fair and take that wait and see approach with other players as well...far too many players get written off waaaay too fast and have their ceilings set for them all because they don't play for your team of choice around these parts and that is some lame ass ****.

As much as I hate to see it because he plays for the Celtics, Tatum has been really dang good, smaller role or not, dude has been a sniper and most importantly shown that he is most than Mr. Iso ONLY as he was often pegged as, not to mention being pretty solid for a 19 year old on the defensive side of the ball. So as much as it sucks because it feeds the trolls against the Sixers, dude has been great for a rookie and we all know damn well if Fultz was doing the exact same ****...no ammount of "bu-but his usage and role doe" would change the fact that we;d be over the moon and gloating haaaaard (self included and I wasn't even a Fultz guy lol)

Its boring but the fact is that nothing is certain right now and the constant acting by so many on these forums is maddening. We all have opinions and it is fun to discuss them but some take it so personally and thus most of said discussion is less about said opinion but more so dick waving about who is wrong and who is right. I'm not going to lie Lonzo's failure early in the year had me lowkey happy but then I realized that was stupid, it was too damn early, and was super unfair to do while I also defended players I did like. Just basically it goes both ways, personally, I worry about Fultz and the trade often...he wasn't my first choice and i'd rather stay at 3 and take Fox/Jackson/or Smith (all 3 guys have been playing like **** too lol), add to the fact that it allows me to troll Bryan if it backfires haaard, and yeah him failing is something I could see happening. But I'd rather give him the same chance I'd give Fox...or I am giving Simmons...to fail and hopefully learn from it and adjust. I think we are all a bit spoiled by Embiid and what we assume should be natural for certain guys but this **** takes time....and guys like Oladipo blossoming after him seemingly hitting his ceiling...or former busts like Dunn getting it together... shows that.

For everyone's sake I hope Fultz is good bare minimum. That way the weird little pissing contest that has been building up will be a bust as neither side can gloat right away and we can watch the normal process of a prospect finidng his way...but alas...that will never happen.

What the heck!? What do you care if some guys on a message board, that you don't even know, gloats? Just hope the dude is a star. I don't get why its important that someone likes every player you like. There are a bunch of players I love, that get killed all of the time on RealGm. It doesn't mean a darn thing to me.

[Ericb5]

No. Let me explain.
Tatum and a big(hopefully) would be more pure talent and a better fit for BOSTON than a PG(Fultz or Lonzo).
So in Boston’s mindset they were getting more talent AND a better fit while giving their main rival less pure talent but a better fit
In PHI mindset they are getting less talent but a better fit while giving their main rival more talent and a better fit.

Hope that made sense. Maybe I’m being a homer idk but that’s my thought process.

That’s true, but the circumstances are very different because the Sixers only need a 3rd best player, but the Celtics still need a best player.

You guys have two Robins and two potential Robins. The Sixers have one Batman, one potential Batman, and one potential Robin.


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Kyrie Irving is in the running for MVP of the entire league. I would say he's Batman more than anyone else on the Sixers right now. (which is in part because Simmons and Embiid are rookies...skies the limit for them , but right now Kyrie is the man)

I think that Kyrie is what Kyrie is, which is a secondary star on a contender. He can be one of the best secondary stars in the league though, but shouldn’t have left LeBron.

I’d take Kyrie over Isaiah Thomas by a hair, and think that the Celtics are improved, but I still don’t think that they beat the Cavs in the playoffs.






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[Ericb5]

who is to say Tatum can't be a Batman? Or hell Kyrie? Plus we have no clue where that pick will fall...they could get it from that.
I also wish sixers fans would stop acting like our guys have arrived already...Embiid still can't be trusted full time, Simmons has to learn how to shoot and Fultz haven't even played yet.

Again if you are going to believe that Embiid will stay relatively healthy, Simmons will learn how to score more, and Fultz is at the very least a good player...you gotta be fair and take that wait and see approach with other players as well...far too many players get written off waaaay too fast and have their ceilings set for them all because they don't play for your team of choice around these parts and that is some lame ass ****.

As much as I hate to see it because he plays for the Celtics, Tatum has been really dang good, smaller role or not, dude has been a sniper and most importantly shown that he is most than Mr. Iso ONLY as he was often pegged as, not to mention being pretty solid for a 19 year old on the defensive side of the ball. So as much as it sucks because it feeds the trolls against the Sixers, dude has been great for a rookie and we all know damn well if Fultz was doing the exact same ****...no ammount of "bu-but his usage and role doe" would change the fact that we;d be over the moon and gloating haaaaard (self included and I wasn't even a Fultz guy lol)

Its boring but the fact is that nothing is certain right now and the constant acting by so many on these forums is maddening. We all have opinions and it is fun to discuss them but some take it so personally and thus most of said discussion is less about said opinion but more so dick waving about who is wrong and who is right. I'm not going to lie Lonzo's failure early in the year had me lowkey happy but then I realized that was stupid, it was too damn early, and was super unfair to do while I also defended players I did like. Just basically it goes both ways, personally, I worry about Fultz and the trade often...he wasn't my first choice and i'd rather stay at 3 and take Fox/Jackson/or Smith (all 3 guys have been playing like **** too lol), add to the fact that it allows me to troll Bryan if it backfires haaard, and yeah him failing is something I could see happening. But I'd rather give him the same chance I'd give Fox...or I am giving Simmons...to fail and hopefully learn from it and adjust. I think we are all a bit spoiled by Embiid and what we assume should be natural for certain guys but this **** takes time....and guys like Oladipo blossoming after him seemingly hitting his ceiling...or former busts like Dunn getting it together... shows that.

For everyone's sake I hope Fultz is good bare minimum. That way the weird little pissing contest that has been building up will be a bust as neither side can gloat right away and we can watch the normal process of a prospect finidng his way...but alas...that will never happen.

Tatum has been great so far. I don’t know how that could be denied.

Embiid has certainly arrived though as one of the best players in the league. Of course we need him to be healthy, but that has always been the case.

Simmons hasn’t arrived yet, but he is as can’t miss as prospects get. He just isn’t a star player on the court right now. He needs major work on his shooting.

The point has never been that the Sixers are a good team yet because their last 10 games show how they definitely aren’t there yet. The point is that they are building something special, and if things continue on the current path we have the highest ceiling of any of the young teams in the league right now.

I don’t know why people make such a big deal about the Celtics. Unless the Sixers get George or LeBron I don’t think we will be contending next year, and 2 years from now I think that the Bucks will be our biggest competition in the east because they have Giannis, who is still improving and is already a dominant player.



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[LloydFree]

Its a good thing for the Celtics Colangelo felt such a deep need to add a "Robin" to his two Batmans, that he traded a "Robin" plus another chance at "Batman" for that "Robin".

[eyeatoma]

Fultz stretching at the Blazers pre-game... He better not **** up that shoulder again with our training staff watching over him...

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Negrodamus]

Fultz stretching at the Blazers pre-game... He better not **** up that shoulder again with our training staff watching over him...

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

OMG HE'S GOING TO SHOOT THE BALL. HE HAS TO!

[cksdayoff]

tj mconnell draining 3s from the corner. the most dangerous weapon

[lpennington]

Pompey's article saying Fultz is out of shape. This kinda irks me. Maybe he means basketball shape but his cardio shape should be great. He should have had miles of running in per day ....

(Also don't understand why JO was out of shape either ... but that's probably more on him).

My other thought: I'm presuming the lack of video of Fultz shooting is a result of a purposeful effort by the Sixers to not let us see his shot. If true, a total shady move and overprotective move by the club. SMH.

[Ericb5]

This clip shows one of the real physical advantages that Fultz has as a guard in the nba.

His arms are really long...

Read on Twitter

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[Lovetron Joe]

who is to say Tatum can't be a Batman? Or hell Kyrie? Plus we have no clue where that pick will fall...they could get it from that.
I also wish sixers fans would stop acting like our guys have arrived already...Embiid still can't be trusted full time, Simmons has to learn how to shoot and Fultz haven't even played yet.

Again if you are going to believe that Embiid will stay relatively healthy, Simmons will learn how to score more, and Fultz is at the very least a good player...you gotta be fair and take that wait and see approach with other players as well...far too many players get written off waaaay too fast and have their ceilings set for them all because they don't play for your team of choice around these parts and that is some lame ass ****.

As much as I hate to see it because he plays for the Celtics, Tatum has been really dang good, smaller role or not, dude has been a sniper and most importantly shown that he is most than Mr. Iso ONLY as he was often pegged as, not to mention being pretty solid for a 19 year old on the defensive side of the ball. So as much as it sucks because it feeds the trolls against the Sixers, dude has been great for a rookie and we all know damn well if Fultz was doing the exact same ****...no ammount of "bu-but his usage and role doe" would change the fact that we;d be over the moon and gloating haaaaard (self included and I wasn't even a Fultz guy lol)

Its boring but the fact is that nothing is certain right now and the constant acting by so many on these forums is maddening. We all have opinions and it is fun to discuss them but some take it so personally and thus most of said discussion is less about said opinion but more so dick waving about who is wrong and who is right. I'm not going to lie Lonzo's failure early in the year had me lowkey happy but then I realized that was stupid, it was too damn early, and was super unfair to do while I also defended players I did like. Just basically it goes both ways, personally, I worry about Fultz and the trade often...he wasn't my first choice and i'd rather stay at 3 and take Fox/Jackson/or Smith (all 3 guys have been playing like **** too lol), add to the fact that it allows me to troll Bryan if it backfires haaard, and yeah him failing is something I could see happening. But I'd rather give him the same chance I'd give Fox...or I am giving Simmons...to fail and hopefully learn from it and adjust. I think we are all a bit spoiled by Embiid and what we assume should be natural for certain guys but this **** takes time....and guys like Oladipo blossoming after him seemingly hitting his ceiling...or former busts like Dunn getting it together... shows that.

For everyone's sake I hope Fultz is good bare minimum. That way the weird little pissing contest that has been building up will be a bust as neither side can gloat right away and we can watch the normal process of a prospect finidng his way...but alas...that will never happen.

Tatum has been great so far. I don’t know how that could be denied.

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Tatum does not pass the ball averaging less than two assists a game. That would put him at 32nd in the league at his position.

He also does not rebound exceptionally well at 5.6 boards a game. HIs PER of 17.5 is slightly above average. I would not call him great.

[PhilasFinest]

Pompey's article saying Fultz is out of shape. This kinda irks me. Maybe he means basketball shape but his cardio shape should be great. He should have had miles of running in per day ....

(Also don't understand why JO was out of shape either ... but that's probably more on him).

My other thought: I'm presuming the lack of video of Fultz shooting is a result of a purposeful effort by the Sixers to not let us see his shot. If true, a total shady move and overprotective move by the club. SMH.

There is a difference between Basketball shape and just running tbh.

[Ericb5]

who is to say Tatum can't be a Batman? Or hell Kyrie? Plus we have no clue where that pick will fall...they could get it from that.
I also wish sixers fans would stop acting like our guys have arrived already...Embiid still can't be trusted full time, Simmons has to learn how to shoot and Fultz haven't even played yet.

Again if you are going to believe that Embiid will stay relatively healthy, Simmons will learn how to score more, and Fultz is at the very least a good player...you gotta be fair and take that wait and see approach with other players as well...far too many players get written off waaaay too fast and have their ceilings set for them all because they don't play for your team of choice around these parts and that is some lame ass ****.

As much as I hate to see it because he plays for the Celtics, Tatum has been really dang good, smaller role or not, dude has been a sniper and most importantly shown that he is most than Mr. Iso ONLY as he was often pegged as, not to mention being pretty solid for a 19 year old on the defensive side of the ball. So as much as it sucks because it feeds the trolls against the Sixers, dude has been great for a rookie and we all know damn well if Fultz was doing the exact same ****...no ammount of "bu-but his usage and role doe" would change the fact that we;d be over the moon and gloating haaaaard (self included and I wasn't even a Fultz guy lol)

Its boring but the fact is that nothing is certain right now and the constant acting by so many on these forums is maddening. We all have opinions and it is fun to discuss them but some take it so personally and thus most of said discussion is less about said opinion but more so dick waving about who is wrong and who is right. I'm not going to lie Lonzo's failure early in the year had me lowkey happy but then I realized that was stupid, it was too damn early, and was super unfair to do while I also defended players I did like. Just basically it goes both ways, personally, I worry about Fultz and the trade often...he wasn't my first choice and i'd rather stay at 3 and take Fox/Jackson/or Smith (all 3 guys have been playing like **** too lol), add to the fact that it allows me to troll Bryan if it backfires haaard, and yeah him failing is something I could see happening. But I'd rather give him the same chance I'd give Fox...or I am giving Simmons...to fail and hopefully learn from it and adjust. I think we are all a bit spoiled by Embiid and what we assume should be natural for certain guys but this **** takes time....and guys like Oladipo blossoming after him seemingly hitting his ceiling...or former busts like Dunn getting it together... shows that.

For everyone's sake I hope Fultz is good bare minimum. That way the weird little pissing contest that has been building up will be a bust as neither side can gloat right away and we can watch the normal process of a prospect finidng his way...but alas...that will never happen.

Tatum has been great so far. I don’t know how that could be denied.

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Tatum does not pass the ball averaging less than two assists a game. That would put him at 32nd in the league at his position.

He also does not rebound exceptionally well at 5.6 boards a game. HIs PER of 17.5 is slightly above average. I would not call him great.

Fair criticisms, but he has still been great as a rookie, and projects as a very high level scorer. His flaws are still his flaws.


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[lpennington]

Agreed ... that's what I meant by " Maybe he means basketball shape." However, this injury should not have limited his ability to maintain *some* form of basketball shape.

Also, I will really call the club out if Markelle cannot participate by shooting during pre-game warmups.

Pompey's article saying Fultz is out of shape. This kinda irks me. Maybe he means basketball shape but his cardio shape should be great. He should have had miles of running in per day ....

(Also don't understand why JO was out of shape either ... but that's probably more on him).

My other thought: I'm presuming the lack of video of Fultz shooting is a result of a purposeful effort by the Sixers to not let us see his shot. If true, a total shady move and overprotective move by the club. SMH.

There is a difference between Basketball shape and just running tbh.

[HankTheTank]

Trust me, the guys who weren’t in favor of drafting, let alone trading up for Fultz, myself included, want nothing more than to be wrong. I hope Fultz becomes a star and I will happily eat crow. I see dbodner chimed in— I hope his analysis is correct.

It’s also ok to be a Sixers fan and admit Ainge made a great trade. He identified his guy, made an unpopular ballsy trade, and nailed it— with another swing at a top pick to come. To not acknowledge that and say “we need to wait 3-5 years to see how it shakes out” is pretty disingenuous.

[Ericb5]

Trust me, the guys who weren’t in favor of drafting, let alone trading up for Fultz, myself included, want nothing more than to be wrong. I hope Fultz becomes a star and I will happily eat crow. I see dbodner chimed in— I hope his analysis is correct.

It’s also ok to be a Sixers fan and admit Ainge made a great trade. He identified his guy, made an unpopular ballsy trade, and nailed it— with another swing at a top pick to come. To not acknowledge that and say “we need to wait 3-5 years to see how it shakes out” is pretty disingenuous.

It was a ninja move for Ainge, but not because he won the trade, but because he got tremendous value for a player he didn’t want.

It will take years to settle the trade for both teams though. A lot can change in 3 years, and as I said before, trades aren’t competitions. It doesn’t matter what the other team’s asset turns into.

The only thing that matters is what the deal was at the time, and what you got out of it compared to making a different deal, or not making a deal at all.




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[GimmeDat]

This is the perspective of an outsider who liked both Tatum and Fultz before the draft - I liked the trade for both and I still like it now.

Fultz was the best prospect in the draft, and beyond that, a great fit with your core. Remember, he was a high level shooter at Washington.

He should be able to play on ball and off, defend and switch multiple positions effectively, provide an alternative ball handler/creator from the perimeter to Simmons, and another athletic open floor guy. He'll be perfect at PG.

The handicapped Fultz we all saw earlier in the season should not resemble a healthy Fultz in any way. Whether he's able to come back in the middle of his rookie season and make an impact/get in to his flow immediately, I'm doubtful, but long term you shouldn't have any regrets yet.

[76ciology]

I think we’re focusing too much on the deal. You need to compare Fultz-Sixers vs Tatum-Sixers. Fultz-Sixers is exactly what we need that its worth to overpay for. Tatum-Sixers is something you get any year on FA or with either LAL/Kings pick.

You cant keep kicking the can down the road. FA and the draft are all high risk gambles. We need certainty after sitting out 3 seasons of Biid and Ben.

[76ciology]

This is the perspective of an outsider who liked both Tatum and Fultz before the draft - I liked the trade for both and I still like it now.

Fultz was the best prospect in the draft, and beyond that, a great fit with your core. Remember, he was a high level shooter at Washington.

He should be able to play on ball and off, defend and switch multiple positions effectively, provide an alternative ball handler/creator from the perimeter to Simmons, and another athletic open floor guy. He'll be perfect at PG.

The handicapped Fultz we all saw earlier in the season should not resemble a healthy Fultz in any way. Whether he's able to come back in the middle of his rookie season and make an impact/get in to his flow immediately, I'm doubtful, but long term you shouldn't have any regrets yet.

Exactly

[ivysixer2000]

I think we’re focusing too much on the deal. You need to compare Fultz-Sixers vs Tatum-Sixers. Fultz-Sixers is exactly what we need that its worth to overpay for. Tatum-Sixers is something you get any year on FA or with either LAL/Kings pick.

You cant keep kicking the can down the road. FA and the draft are all high risk gambles. We need certainty after sitting out 3 seasons of Biid and Ben.

I agree, well one thing that stands out to me about this board since coming back is its always about would've, could've, should've....and not about our actual team. Sure we can have regrets, and I do have alot of them in real life, but at the end of the day you have to move on with what you got regardless.

We sat here for like ever waiting on Ben and Jojo, but Fultz doesn't get that luxury cause we want to win all of a sudden. As your saying, high risk, high reward. But the bottomline is we need a great guard on this team, and that's not Tatum. Its not like this is Portland when they passed on Jordan cause they had Clyde in that spot, they were still close in position so they should've taken Jordan and moved Clyde down to SF. We are talking about a PG and a PF here, especially when most here people who didn't want Fultz were cheering for Ball or Josh....not Tatum.

Our only guards we have right now all are either temporary, back ups, or stink. We needed Fultz for that reason, whether it works, we will have to wait and see.