Around the NBA 2

[1999]

This has to be a joke. He's not even the first player to do what he's doing.

And it's not like he ever does it when it really matters.

Eh I don't think it's that far fetched... He has one of the highest usage rates ever and yet maintains supreme efficiency. Also, when you factor in his passing ability off of that (averaging 8 apg since he's been in a Rocket Uniform with now 1 and a half of those years being spent with one of the greatest passers of all time). The list is pretty low if guys who combine his usage, efficiency and passing ability statistically.

I definitely wouldn't go as far to say that he's definitively the best offensive player ever but IMO it's not ridiculous to say he's top 5.

With that usage rate and system many past greats would have looked tremendous. Harden is no better weapon than Kobe, Jordan, Durant or Shaq and I'm leaving out Magic, Bird, Kareem and Wilt here.
This coming from the Rockets' corner is pure homerism. Give Kobe that many touches and freedom, he's way better.

That said, the eye test suggests that there's never been a more featured player than Harden. 95% of their possessions seem to start with him and run through him. Does that make him better? No.

That’s what I suggested Morey is alluding to in terms of Harden orchestrating nearly everything for Houston. I’ve never seen that from another player before. I don’t think anyone legitimately believes harden is the BEST offensive player in history. But yeah, he’s in that discussion and it holds weight because of the offensive load/burden he carries for the whole team. His usage is ridiculous.


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[whocares1]

This has to be a joke. He's not even the first player to do what he's doing.

And it's not like he ever does it when it really matters.

He doesn’t do it when it matters because the rule book changes in the post season. He also is usually fatigued at that point after carrying the team all season. Harden is a GOAT level scorer period.

If he can't adjust, then he's not the GOAT. Period.

He's up there, but there has definitely been better.

He might not be the greatest but he’s in the conversation and you seem to acknowledge that. It’s hard to compare different eras especially with the way three pointers are put up in today’s game, as well as the pace but Harden is one of the greatest offensive machines in NBA history because of his vast range and isolation ability.

[NoLayupRule]

so Butler is already unhappy in Phili?

daaam

any team that takes a chance on him has to be ready for a bit of a headache apparently

[Cookies4Life]

I wasn't discrediting Harden, I think he's an excellent offensive player for THIS era, it's just out of all the superstars in today's game, his game doesn't seem like it would translate well back in the 80's with the way they were able to defend players. I don't think he'd live on the FT line back than and I also believe his shooting percentages wouldn't be so efficient with guys being able to hand check him from behind the arc.

he has a very unique game and a good portion of his offensive success is centered around him going to the FT line and being able to execute the PnR. Excellent passer and good 3 point shooter, average defender at best.

I think guys like Durant, Lebron (obviously,) AD, Kawhi, Westbrook, Curry would've been dominant in any era. Just not Harden- he seems like an All Star level player at best back than. I can't see him being a top 10 player at that time which is no disrespect to him. The game was so different back than- it was a very physical brand of basketball. I remember watching guys get punched in the face, get fined 2,000 dollars and only suspended for a game. I can only imagine the penalty clause in today's era if they did that.

[NoLayupRule]

I wasn't discrediting Harden, I think he's an excellent offensive player for THIS era, it's just out of all the superstars in today's game, his game doesn't seem like it would translate well back in the 80's with the way they were able to defend players. I don't think he'd live on the FT line back than and I also believe his shooting percentages wouldn't be so efficient with guys being able to hand check him from behind the arc.

he has a very unique game and a good portion of his offensive success is centered around him going to the FT line and being able to execute the PnR. Excellent passer and good 3 point shooter, average defender at best.

I think guys like Durant, Lebron (obviously,) AD, Kawhi, Westbrook, Curry would've been dominant in any era. Just not Harden- he seems like an All Star level player at best back than. I can't see him being a top 10 player at that time which is no disrespect to him. The game was so different back than- it was a very physical brand of basketball. I remember watching guys get punched in the face, get fined 2,000 dollars and only suspended for a game. I can only imagine the penalty clause in today's era if they did that.

I agree

people didn't get to the line the way he does back then. His scoring would have been just as impressive but the defense would have been able to shadow him without calls back then. not to mention the hand check
its just totally different

Harden is an incredible player
unlikable as hell but incredible

[Besart19]

I hope Butler asks for a trade again

We might have a chance to offload both Lee and Timmy... and if Fiz sees an uncoachable player in him you simply wont resign him while freeing enough money for both Durant and a lead duard

[MaseInYourFace]

Is Jimmy Butler worth the drama? I'm starting to think the answer is no.

[Thugger HBC]

Luka really is something special.

[Jeffrey]

LOL ATL you're tanking too hard..

MIL 61 ATL 29 with 3 minutes to go in the first half

[knicks94]

We need to be more worried about the Cavs when it comes to tanking.

[robillionaire]

bulls sent it to OT on a miracle lol

[robillionaire]

and oladipo murdered them in OT

[YouthMovement]

and oladipo murdered them in OT

dunn and lavine got all hype for nothing

[god shammgod]

damn you victor

[TheGreenArrow]

Bad night for the tank.

[wackbone]

Bad night for the tank.

Especially when the Knicks beat the depleted Lakers

[xNewYorkMadex]

If this report is true, Jimmy Butler is so full of shyt. Philly is 16–8 when they acquired him. Hell 2 of those 8 losses Jimmy didn’t even play in. That’s a pretty good record for a team that’s getting used to playing with each other.

Like it’s obvious he just wants to get his stats up and get paid. Wanted out of Minny because they already paid KAT and Wiggins. Now unhappy because he’s now in a free flowing offense and isn’t more of a PnR offense.

Jimmy is turning into a diva. Man the fu** up and keep winning. That team has a legit shot of making it out of the East, but it’s always something with him. 3 different teams and apparently he’s never the problem. Shyt irritates me.

[spree2kawhi]

Eh I don't think it's that far fetched... He has one of the highest usage rates ever and yet maintains supreme efficiency. Also, when you factor in his passing ability off of that (averaging 8 apg since he's been in a Rocket Uniform with now 1 and a half of those years being spent with one of the greatest passers of all time). The list is pretty low if guys who combine his usage, efficiency and passing ability statistically.

I definitely wouldn't go as far to say that he's definitively the best offensive player ever but IMO it's not ridiculous to say he's top 5.

With that usage rate and system many past greats would have looked tremendous. Harden is no better weapon than Kobe, Jordan, Durant or Shaq and I'm leaving out Magic, Bird, Kareem and Wilt here.
This coming from the Rockets' corner is pure homerism. Give Kobe that many touches and freedom, he's way better.

Durant Shaq, Kobe and Jordan all had similar usage rates to Harden. It's not homerism. It's a fact that Harden is one of the best offensive players of all time. I'm not willing to say number 1 but he belongs at least in the conversation.

Using years 23(Hardens first year with Rockets) to 29 (Current season)

Also could be defined as an athlete's peak years.

Below is how the usage rates stack up as a cumulative, True Shooting % and Ast %.

Harden - 32.2% usg 61% TS 32% ast
Kobe - 32.7% usg 56% TS 25% ast
MJ - 33.9% usg 59% TS 27% ast
KD - 30.6% usg 64% TS 23.1% ast
Shaq - 31.9% usg 57% TS 16.8% ast.

Obviously with a new found emphasis on the 3 and efficiency the modern guys are a bit more efficient than the older players but you're kidding yourself if you think those guys would be head and shoulders above Harden.

The numbers above arent the end all be all but it shows that Harden belongs in that pantheon of offensive talent.

That's interesting stuff. But don't you also feel like Harden is used more than the usage rate stat covers?
I mean, fair if you don't, but from watching games, I've never seen a player with more consistent involvement in any action. He's literally never off the ball.

[spree2kawhi]

If this report is true, Jimmy Butler is so full of shyt. Philly is 16–8 when they acquired him. Hell 2 of those 8 losses Jimmy didn’t even play in. That’s a pretty good record for a team that’s getting used to playing with each other.

Like it’s obvious he just wants to get his stats up and get paid. Wanted out of Minny because they already paid KAT and Wiggins. Now unhappy because he’s now in a free flowing offense and isn’t more of a PnR offense.

Jimmy is turning into a diva. Man the fu** up and keep winning. That team has a legit shot of making it out of the East, but it’s always something with him. 3 different teams and apparently he’s never the problem. Shyt irritates me.

It's a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Not for Jimmy though, he's arrogant. I like the player and I think his game translates into wins. But he can't be a team's best player - that's not because of talent level - but because if he is, he seems to create a toxic environment of delusional expectations paired with complacency.

[spree2kawhi]

KCP makes my All-Should-Have-Become-A-Knick-5-Years-Ago-Team.