Political Roundtable Part XXX

[dobrojim]

PS, the story of abandoned military equipment in A’stan is a lot more
nuanced than your angry diatribe would suggest. Please do some
research starting by googling abandoned military equipment Afghanistan.
As for people, it wasn’t a secret we were leaving. If some folks stayed
behind, it was often a deliberate choice on their part.

[Pointgod]

All of this is made up in your head.

You’ve provided zero evidence for anything that you said and half of that **** isn’t even true or the fault of the Democratic Party. You just want an excuse to mouth off, probably on a burner account, because you can’t intelligently speak about politics.

Really ?? It wasbt your idiot president who left all the artillery and people in Afghanistan?
It's not your idiot president who's threatening Russia?
It's not your idiot presidents that he opened the borders??
You're in denial Einstein

Buddy you’re just writing gibberish without providing any facts. For example inflation isn’t something that Congress has the tools to address, it’s the Federal Reserve that can do it. So why are Republicans blocking Federal Reserve appointments that would help solve the problem that they’re telling about?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/gop-blockade-puts-bidens-fed-nominees-limbo-sparking-democratic-fury-rcna16561

Republicans are blocking votes on President Joe Biden’s five nominees for the Federal Reserve Board, infuriating the White House and creating an impasse when the central bank is under increasing pressure to combat inflation.

“It’s never been more important to have confirmed leadership at the Fed to help continue our recovery and fight inflation,”

Get out of the right wing misinformation bubble it’s literally rotting your brain.

[queridiculo]

Read on Twitter

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Europe is simply paying the price for the United States hawkish foreign policy.

Elaborate please...

The USA has gone back on their word about eastward NATO expansion by using their influence to squeeze Russia out of Europe as a key strategic foreign policy measure.

[Pointgod]

Europe is simply paying the price for the United States hawkish foreign policy.

Elaborate please...

The USA has gone back on their word about eastward NATO expansion by using their influence to squeeze Russia out of Europe as a key strategic foreign policy measure.

That’s a myth and gaslighting from Putin to justify trying to take over a sovereign country.

https://theconversation.com/ukraine-the-history-behind-russias-claim-that-nato-promised-not-to-expand-to-the-east-177085

But the decision to accept former members of the Warsaw Pact, the defensive alliance which included the USSR and several eastern European countries, is being subject to a revisionist history. This is perpetuating a myth that Nato promised not to expand eastwards after the Soviet Union dissolved.

In 2014, the former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev marked the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin wall by noting in an interview that that Nato’s enlargement “was not discussed at all” at the time:

Indeed, the only formal agreement signed between Nato countries and the USSR, before its breakup in December 1991, was the Treaty of Final Settlement with Respect to Germany. The promises made specifically relate to Germany, and the territory of the former GDR, which were on the deployment of non-German Nato forces into eastern Germany and the deployment of nuclear weapons – and these promises have been kept.

https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-to-the-east

[pancakes3]

the part that foxnews fails to mention is that the global supply chain problems are caused by Covid, and exasperated by the lack of infrastructure, two items that Trump undeniably dropped the ball on last term, and Republicans are fighting Biden tooth and nail over now this term.

[queridiculo]

That’s a myth and gaslighting from Putin to justify trying to take over a sovereign country.

Is it?

There's been talk about those assurances being rendered to Russia during the 2+4 meetings that were held to discuss Germany's ambition at a unified East and West Germany but none of them were ever put into writing or any official agreements.

There seems to be ample evidence that points into the direction that those guarantees were in fact made and subsequently ignored.

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/nato-osterweiterung-aktenfund-stuetzt-russische-version-a-1613d467-bd72-4f02-8e16-2cd6d3285295

edit: a more comprehensive overview realizing that not everybody may be aware of the browser translation functions.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Please note on the subject of NATO talks only relating to Germany.

Feb 1, 1990
Source
U.S. Department of State. FOIA Reading Room. Case F-2015 10829

One of the myths about the January and February 1990 discussions of German unification is that these talks occurred so early in the process, with the Warsaw Pact still very much in existence, that no one was thinking about the possibility that Central and European countries, even then members of the Warsaw Pact, could in the future become members of NATO. On the contrary, the West German foreign minister’s Tutzing formula in his speech of January 31, 1990, widely reported in the media in Europe, Washington, and Moscow, explicitly addressed the possibility of NATO expansion, as well as Central and Eastern European membership in NATO – and denied that possibility, as part of his olive garland towards Moscow. This U.S. Embassy Bonn cable reporting back to Washington details both of Hans-Dietrich Genscher’s proposals – that NATO would not expand to the east, and that the former territory of the GDR in a unified Germany would be treated differently from other NATO territory.

[dobrojim]

Bottom line remains Russia cannot reasonably fear a UKR invasion.
Putin simply doesn’t want a better run country on his doorstep as an example.
No one wants to invade Russia.

[doclinkin]

Bottom line remains Russia cannot reasonably fear a UKR invasion.
Putin simply doesn’t want a better run country on his doorstep as an example.
No one wants to invade Russia.

Russia wants to be able to do things like annex Crimea without sanction. Or in this case annex the rest of the Ukraine ,which has always acted as Russia's breadbasket. The Ukraine is the world's 5th largest exporter of wheat. Note that the measures discussed to punish Russia are not military actions but to enact trade blockades etc. Long bread lines were part of what overthrew the Soviet Union due to public discontent.

More recently: Check this chart of Russian imports from the Ukraine over time:

https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/imports/ukraine

Note that in 2014 US the Ukraine elected a pro western US-friendly government (after a campaign during which we naturally promoted and assisted the pro-US slate).

Suddenly Russian imports from UKR were sliced in half, as they sold elsewhere at more advantageous prices.

If you look back at this you understand the fury which which Russia reacted, in turning the tables on the US by enacting a similar campaign to elect their own pet puppet candidate in our body politic. Note that the same year the Ukraine elected less Russo-friendly politicians was the year that the annexation of Crimea took place, with its strategic ports and military control of the Black Sea trade routes.

I would not be surprised to find in a forensic assay of FOXNEWS income, or its celebrity hosts, that Russia was pouring money into their pockets, to purchase a propaganda organization that runs most similarly to their own in-house media empire.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

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[queridiculo]

Read on Twitter

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In essence the Russians are not wrong, although the distortion of facts given the current build up troops is off the charts absurd.

The US has with great consistency done everything in their power to stifle Russia since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

[TGW]

Read on Twitter

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In essence the Russians are not wrong, although the distortion of facts given the current build up troops is off the charts absurd.

The US has with great consistency done everything in their power to stifle Russia since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

This stuff is blatantly obvious to anyone who isn’t a kissass msnbc watching establishment liberal. The US has slowly strategically moved closer and closer to the Russian border, using NATO as their crutch. Russia is simply pushing back because western diplomacy has historically been proven to be complete ****. Unfortunately, Ukraine is caught in the middle, and I feel badly for those people because they’ve had to deal with American and Russian puppet presidents, the CIA, CIA backed neo-nazis, and Russian backed opposition. They were so desperate for a non-politician, they elected a comedian to be their president (sounds familiar).

This is literally the equivalent of our Cuban missile crisis, except in reverse. Putin simply isn’t going to let some NATO backed country (i.e a US satellite) on their doorstep. So yea, they’re going to push back. Duh.

[closg00]

Tulsi Gabbard is speaking at CPAC, if there was any remaining doubt that she is a massive grifter.

[pancakes3]

Read on Twitter

?t=e2H7ktFrJxjWP0_1bMm3pA&s=19

In essence the Russians are not wrong, although the distortion of facts given the current build up troops is off the charts absurd.

The US has with great consistency done everything in their power to stifle Russia since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

This stuff is blatantly obvious to anyone who isn’t a kissass msnbc watching establishment liberal. The US has slowly strategically moved closer and closer to the Russian border, using NATO as their crutch. Russia is simply pushing back because western diplomacy has historically been proven to be complete ****. Unfortunately, Ukraine is caught in the middle, and I feel badly for those people because they’ve had to deal with American and Russian puppet presidents, the CIA, CIA backed neo-nazis, and Russian backed opposition. They were so desperate for a non-politician, they elected a comedian to be their president (sounds familiar).

This is literally the equivalent of our Cuban missile crisis, except in reverse. Putin simply isn’t going to let some NATO backed country (i.e a US satellite) on their doorstep. So yea, they’re going to push back. Duh.

[citation needed]
also
[flagged as nonsensical]

[dobrojim]

This stuff is blatantly obvious to anyone who isn’t a kissass msnbc watching establishment liberal. The US has slowly strategically moved closer and closer to the Russian border, using NATO as their crutch.

Your patronizing insult does nothing to further your argument.

Do you think Russia has a legitimate fear of invasion?

Russia is simply pushing back because western diplomacy has historically been proven to be complete ****.

When has Russia ever been a good faith actor in international affairs?

Unfortunately, Ukraine is caught in the middle, and I feel badly for those people because they’ve had to deal with American and Russian puppet presidents, the CIA, CIA backed neo-nazis, and Russian backed opposition. They were so desperate for a non-politician, they elected a comedian to be their president (sounds familiar).

This is literally the equivalent of our Cuban missile crisis, except in reverse. Putin simply isn’t going to let some NATO backed country (i.e a US satellite) on their doorstep. So yea, they’re going to push back. Duh.

Who is controlling the puppet strings on either Putin or Biden?

I understand Putin doesn't want missiles on their border but I think that is the end of
any legitimate part of your analogy/argument. Russia, really Putin, wants a return to the glory days
of when the USSR was a legitimate military (although clearly not economic) superpower.

The reasons they are not more successful economically (mostly if not entirely) originate
within their own borders.

Putin is arguably the most successful mob boss in the world in terms of accumulating personal
power. It's too bad he so rarely has his country's best interest as a motivating factor in
developing national policy.

If UKR wants to join NATO, why should Putin get a veto over that?
My interpretation is they simply want to exercise sovereignty within their own country.
If they conclude becoming part of NATO gives them greater security, who could
blame them after Russia's invasion of their country.

[Bonscott]

You’ve provided zero evidence for anything that you said and half of that **** isn’t even true or the fault of the Democratic Party. You just want an excuse to mouth off, probably on a burner account, because you can’t intelligently speak about politics.

Really ?? It wasbt your idiot president who left all the artillery and people in Afghanistan?
It's not your idiot president who's threatening Russia?
It's not your idiot presidents that he opened the borders??
You're in denial Einstein

Buddy you’re just writing gibberish without providing any facts. For example inflation isn’t something that Congress has the tools to address, it’s the Federal Reserve that can do it. So why are Republicans blocking Federal Reserve appointments that would help solve the problem that they’re telling about?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/gop-blockade-puts-bidens-fed-nominees-limbo-sparking-democratic-fury-rcna16561

Republicans are blocking votes on President Joe Biden’s five nominees for the Federal Reserve Board, infuriating the White House and creating an impasse when the central bank is under increasing pressure to combat inflation.

“It’s never been more important to have confirmed leadership at the Fed to help continue our recovery and fight inflation,”

Get out of the right wing misinformation bubble it’s literally rotting your brain.

Typical democrat living in denial,your idiot in the white house is destroying the US but you just sit there with your thumb up your ***.I suppose your other hero is Andrew Cuomo

[dobrojim]

We're all still waiting for you (Bonscott) to actually put some meat on the bones
you're tossing out. None seem to be forthcoming. I have some suspicions as to why that is.

PS- Nobody here that I remember defended Cuomo. This would be in stark contrast to
a never ending series of scandals coming from the previous administration that were
typically met with indifference by those staunch, courageous GOP members of Congress,
not to mention that news channel that argued in court no one should believe what they say.

[Zonkerbl]

ARGLE BLARGLE!!!!

Look at me, I'm a conservative! :froth foam:

[pancakes3]

what am i supposed to do in lieu of having my thumb inside me? what actionable steps should i be taking to keep the idiot in the WH from destroying the US? what is the destruction that I'm supposed to be preventing? was i supposed to have joined in storming the capitol bc gas was going to go up a couple nickels?

i think making hollow assertions about voter fraud in the absence of fraud is an actual, material step towards destroying this country. like, if Conservative politicians were actually worried about voter IDs, they would pass legislation to give out voter ID's bc right now there is no such thing as a voter ID. My license to operate a motor vehicle does nothing as far as proving that I am eligible to vote. failing to do that, to me, sounds like empty b*tching with my thumb in my a**. i, as a pretty lib voter, would be 100% on board if the Government decided to give everyone their own voter ID.

[TGW]

In essence the Russians are not wrong, although the distortion of facts given the current build up troops is off the charts absurd.

The US has with great consistency done everything in their power to stifle Russia since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

This stuff is blatantly obvious to anyone who isn’t a kissass msnbc watching establishment liberal. The US has slowly strategically moved closer and closer to the Russian border, using NATO as their crutch. Russia is simply pushing back because western diplomacy has historically been proven to be complete ****. Unfortunately, Ukraine is caught in the middle, and I feel badly for those people because they’ve had to deal with American and Russian puppet presidents, the CIA, CIA backed neo-nazis, and Russian backed opposition. They were so desperate for a non-politician, they elected a comedian to be their president (sounds familiar).

This is literally the equivalent of our Cuban missile crisis, except in reverse. Putin simply isn’t going to let some NATO backed country (i.e a US satellite) on their doorstep. So yea, they’re going to push back. Duh.

[citation needed]
also
[flagged as nonsensical]

I appreciate the debate. Here's some citations for you:

https://jacobinmag.com/2022/01/cia-neo-nazi-training-ukraine-russia-putin-biden-nato

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cia-trained-ukrainian-paramilitaries-may-take-central-role-if-russia-invades-185258008.html

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-1.6248727

https://therealnews.com/the-us-is-arming-and-assisting-neo-nazis-in-ukraine-while-congress-debates-prohibition

I have more coming, just to satisfy your need to be informed. I'm at work right now.

*

Spoiler:

oh and MSNBC commentator and hero Alexander Vindman is one of the spearheads of this Ukranian training program. MSNBC loves to promote CIA propaganda unchecked, and this is just another example.

[Zonkerbl]

This seems like an internal Ukraine problem. I don't think it makes sense for us to abandon our friends in Ukraine because there are people in their military we don't like.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY

Interesting nevertheless. We support Ukraine but we don't support Chechnya. Political context is everything.