Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LX Offseason Edition)

[Optimus_Steel]

Young players do have a tendency to get better but that doesn't mean we aren't the worst team of the 4. Basically, our best hope of getting better is to draft well over the next few years. By most accounts our best player is Harris and he had nothing to do with the trade. Saying we won that trade is like saying the Cavs won the luke walton for Ramon Sessions trade because the Cavs still have Walton and Sessions left the Lakers within months. No one thinks that do they? From your point of view, we might not have lost yet, but we definitely haven't won.

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I disagree. Its obvious to see that we are in a better position compared to the other 3 teams considering the assets that were involved in the trade. Dwight left LA for nothing back and they lost a draft pick. Philly lost one of the best young centers in the game, a young swingman with talent, and draft picks plus being stock with Jason Richardson knee, nothing to show for Bynum, Den let Iggy go in FA and lost draft picks. We still have young assets with value that we can keep and watch them grow or use in trades, as well as more draft picks.

Unless those assets and lost assets start correlating to wins and losses, all we have to go on is what has happened since the trade. We lost the biggest asset in the trade (whether he wanted to be here or not) and had the worst team last year. We might finish closer to the Sixers this year, but unless you think the Harkless and Vucevic are responsible for 20 wins by themselves this year, it isn't really fair to say we came out the victors. The point is to win games still.

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Apparently you haven't realized that we are not trying to win games right now. We are building, acquiring assets for long term success. If we were trying to win right away we would have taken on Bynum like Philly did or we would have traded for Lopez and Gerald Wallace. That's why you cant use wins and losses to define this trade on the Magic side. The Magic knew they would be bad for a couple of years when this trade was made and it was made on purpose. We went from having very few young assets and no flexibility at all to having several talented young pieces, draft picks, as well as flexibility to make moves. Otis left his team a serious mess with very limited to no room to improve, being stuck in cap hell, in less than a year that has changed completely.

[OrlandoNed]

That trade was a victory. Everybody thought we got ripped off in that deal where we were absolutely handcuffed by Dwight running his mouth constantly to "sources". In the end we are the only team better for that deal. That's a win.

You keep saying that it doesn't matter what we got for the best asset in the deal (dwight). He was guaranteed to leave! Would you rather let him walk for nothing? We were gonna suck as a team either way, trade or no trade! Without the trade Orlando would be stuck with a bunch of scrubs and washed up has-beens on horrible contracts and we would of been what the Suns were at the start of last season. I'd rather be where we are now with a handful of young talent with tons of potential on rookie deals, tradeable assets, cap space in a year or two and a handful of first round picks.

Now what would you rather Hennigan have done last year?

[KingRobb02]

That trade was a victory. Everybody thought we got ripped off in that deal where we were absolutely handcuffed by Dwight running his mouth constantly to "sources". In the end we are the only team better for that deal. That's a win.

You keep saying that it doesn't matter what we got for the best asset in the deal (dwight). He was guaranteed to leave! Would you rather let him walk for nothing? We were gonna suck as a team either way, trade or no trade! Without the trade Orlando would be stuck with a bunch of scrubs and washed up has-beens on horrible contracts and we would of been what the Suns were at the start of last season. I'd rather be where we are now with a handful of young talent with tons of potential on rookie deals, tradeable assets, cap space in a year or two and a handful of first round picks.

Now what would you rather Hennigan of done last year?

I don't think I ever said that it doesn't matter what we got. I just think it's silly that the worst team in the trade won according to most people. If our best players turn out to be Tobes and Oladipo, does that man we won? It's not like those two had anything to do with the trade. We're also the only team that didn't get a huge expiring contract out of the situation. In my opinion, dumping us with Afflalo and Harrington's bad contracts while getting a year of Andre Igoudala and having the best season in team history seems good for the Nuggets. If the Lakers can convert the money freed up by Dwight's expiring into Lebron, that seems like a win. I'm not saying Hennigan made a mistake, and I'm not second guessing the trade. I just don't think we are the clear cut winners.

[OrlChamps2030]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jItWYVGBur8[/youtube]

Great interview as a whole if you're a fan of The Wire, WHERES WALLACE, STRING!

Skip to 37:10 though for Oladipo, they talk about him for a few minutes which is pretty cool. Wallace was saying how he didn't want to say it since it'll be controversial, but thinks Dipo has a the moxie of a young Jordan.

Wow cool interview.. Can't watch the whole thing right now but I love The Wire and I'm actually re-watching it again right now (on season 3).

WHERES WALLACE STRING

[XonezIOIzenoX]

That trade was a victory. Everybody thought we got ripped off in that deal where we were absolutely handcuffed by Dwight running his mouth constantly to "sources". In the end we are the only team better for that deal. That's a win.

You keep saying that it doesn't matter what we got for the best asset in the deal (dwight). He was guaranteed to leave! Would you rather let him walk for nothing? We were gonna suck as a team either way, trade or no trade! Without the trade Orlando would be stuck with a bunch of scrubs and washed up has-beens on horrible contracts and we would of been what the Suns were at the start of last season. I'd rather be where we are now with a handful of young talent with tons of potential on rookie deals, tradeable assets, cap space in a year or two and a handful of first round picks.

Now what would you rather Hennigan of done last year?

I don't think I ever said that it doesn't matter what we got. I just think it's silly that the worst team in the trade won according to most people. If our best players turn out to be Tobes and Oladipo, does that man we won? It's not like those two had anything to do with the trade. We're also the only team that didn't get a huge expiring contract out of the situation. In my opinion, dumping us with Afflalo and Harrington's bad contracts while getting a year of Andre Igoudala and having the best season in team history seems good for the Nuggets. If the Lakers can convert the money freed up by Dwight's expiring into Lebron, that seems like a win. I'm not saying Hennigan made a mistake, and I'm not second guessing the trade. I just don't think we are the clear cut winners.

Hey I respect your post here because I can understand what you mean on our returns from this trade and tobias-Oladipo not part of those trade, etc. Well I for one believe that we won that trade simply because the other teams on their returns didn't stay for them (Iggy left Denver, Bynum didn't play and still left, Dwight left LA Lakers). You have to look into that perspective instead of what if's on who our trade partner could of been. How about this, Bynum didn't play all year and what if the trade never went down with the Magic, would the LA LAKERS re-sign Bynum? If so, then would a cap space be in place for Lebron James? Stuff like this is what you can't really miss out if we go by the what if's.

We made a great trade in my honest opinion. Dwight Howard was a gonner so we trade him for young promising players-assetts-1st round picks while ridding off 1 bad player+bad contract in jrich and duhon. Denver has no more Iggy, La Lakers lost Dwight, and 76ers team seem to have exploded. We staying in course for perhaps another bad season, a potential pick for a potential superstar in upcoming draft, more trades can come in, young core to grow with, etc. That to me is success for a rebuild.

[flying_mollusk]

I think youre mixing up a trade where both sides make an equal exchange for short term results (Shaq for Butler, Odom, Grant) WITH a trade that clear has short term analysis along with long term implications. This was not a one star for another star trade, with one team coming out better right away. It was a superstar future FA for prospects trade, with all sides taking on risk.

It's silly to analyze this type trade based on short term results. Even utilizing your short term only analysis, I still think you are wrong. If the players we got had no value today and showed no potential that would also make him valuable, you might have a point. Except Nikola Vucevic is a 22 year old center who put up 13 ppg and 12 rpg. We acquired him for a player that was 100% going to leave after 1 season and over a center with terrible knees. Given what actually happened, every team in that trade would have taken our package over the package they got. You cant deny that.

Look at it this way-which is the best package:

Vucevic (under contract and easily extended), Harkless (under contract and easily extended), draft picks.

1 year of Dwight, then leaving via FA.

1 year of Bynum, then leaving via FA.

1 year of Iggy, then leaving via FA.

Which of those packages do you take?

Id be curious to see-what reasonable return from that trade would you say would result in you saying we won that trade?

[OrlChamps2030]

If Philly gets Wiggins do they win the trade?

[TDJacksonville]

If Philly gets Wiggins do they win the trade?

what if Philly doesnt Land Wiggins and has to settle with 1 Late Lottery pick and 1 Playoff Pick. do they win the trade?

[OrlChamps2030]

If Philly gets Wiggins do they win the trade?

what if Philly doesnt Land Wiggins and has to settle with 1 Late Lottery pick and 1 Playoff Pick. do they win the trade?

No

[OrlandoNed]

That trade was a victory. Everybody thought we got ripped off in that deal where we were absolutely handcuffed by Dwight running his mouth constantly to "sources". In the end we are the only team better for that deal. That's a win.

You keep saying that it doesn't matter what we got for the best asset in the deal (dwight). He was guaranteed to leave! Would you rather let him walk for nothing? We were gonna suck as a team either way, trade or no trade! Without the trade Orlando would be stuck with a bunch of scrubs and washed up has-beens on horrible contracts and we would of been what the Suns were at the start of last season. I'd rather be where we are now with a handful of young talent with tons of potential on rookie deals, tradeable assets, cap space in a year or two and a handful of first round picks.

Now what would you rather Hennigan of done last year?

I don't think I ever said that it doesn't matter what we got. I just think it's silly that the worst team in the trade won according to most people. If our best players turn out to be Tobes and Oladipo, does that man we won? It's not like those two had anything to do with the trade. We're also the only team that didn't get a huge expiring contract out of the situation. In my opinion, dumping us with Afflalo and Harrington's bad contracts while getting a year of Andre Igoudala and having the best season in team history seems good for the Nuggets. If the Lakers can convert the money freed up by Dwight's expiring into Lebron, that seems like a win. I'm not saying Hennigan made a mistake, and I'm not second guessing the trade. I just don't think we are the clear cut winners.

Winning a trade is a matter of perspective.

The Lakers got Dwight thinking they'd be the favorite to win the title with their next great big man. They had a nightmare season with coaching changes, injuries and bad chemistry. All of that just to barely make the playoffs and then get swept. That is a loss in the eyes of the Lakers. Yes, they still are in the Lebron sweepstakes, but they would of anyway; without the trade or dwight staying or dwight leaving. Dwight was Plan 1A, Lebron Plan 1A and/or B.

For Denver the trade was great at first. They were the 3rd seed in the West, and were looking to make a deep run in the playoffs. Then they got blasted by the Warriors in the first round then Iggy left. For the team who just eliminated them no less. The Nuggets had every intention of keeping Iggy to stay as a contender but he took less money to leave, but they got randy foye in the sign-and-trade. Whoop-di-do. That's a loss to them. Now they have Darell Arthur, Foye and JJ Hickson to replace Iggy, Brewer and Koufos, and they are stuck trying to make the playoffs instead of competing for the title.

The Sixers got Bynum thinking they could compete with the Heat and go deep in the playoffs. He never played a second for them,they are stuck with J Rich and his crap contract and Harkless and Vucevic ended up looking like studs for the Magic. Oh and they blew up their team and are in a better position to out-tank us this season. Last year, they were thinking deep playoff run. Now they are thinking 1st pick in the 2014 draft. They lost that trade so bad.

Orlando got a jumpstart on their rebuild and they will be back to contention a year or two sooner rather than later. Also Afflalo does not have a bad contract. That is a very fair contract. Harrington had to be included to make the salaries match up to make the trade work, and he can be cut for half of his contract so its not hurting our cap that much. We were in a bad spot before the trade and we came out looking in great shape in the longterm. Everyone else had there Plan A's explode in their face and all they got was expirings for their best players. Orlando's plan A was to get what we ended up with. That's a win.

When it comes to trades, winning it is all about perspective.

[yoyojw17]

then get the Bucks to give Larry Sanders then for BBD

Sadly....the Bucks may never trade again with us.....even it's obvious that they will be the winner of the trade....a thought will linger...."We might be getting screwed!" haha

i wouldnt say Never because we never know wat the bucks are planning on doing

Just being facetious.... since everyone talks about raped them in the JJ/Harris deal.

[Bensational]

The problem is that your standard of measurment for who "won" the trade isn't shared by many others. Did OKC "win" the Harden trade because OKC had a better record than Houston? I don't think so.

The Magic got the best of the Howard trade because of the value they got in return for the value they sent out in the short term and the long term. I don't think it makes sense to evaluate trades only on the season in which the trade occured, otherwise GM's should never trade a player for a draft pick - even a lotto pick - because the lotto pick is indeterminite and can't help the team win games right then.

Furthermore, the Magic's record before BBD's injury was very respectable so even by your evaluation the Magic could make a strong claim for getting the best out of the trade.

Maybe there is no winner sometimes, but I really think it's silly to say that the team who was worst last year and will be worst again this year won a trade. If people want to re-visit the analysis in a couple years when Vucevic and Harkless are all-stars and Afflalo breaks the 3PT record, I'm cool with that. But saying we won because we have pieces that might be something one day seems illogical.

I guess it depends on how highly you value youth and prospects. The potential is value in and of itself. Wins will come once the players reach their prime, but right now Vuc is a league leading rebounder with an inside/outside game. Harkless is an athletic wing with good defensive capabilities and a developing outside shot. Afflalo is.... well, he's a finished player, but he's a great 4th option on a contending team.

In that trade, in terms of assets each team put in, LA gave up a quality big man (although I don't rate him at all just because of his health) for Dwight. Their record got worse, and they lost Dwight for no return. I think it's fair to say they came out of the ordeal with a negative result. Philly gave up Iggy, Vucevic and Harkless whilst taking on JRich for a gamble on Bynum, who never played a game for them, and their team got worse. Negative result. Denver gave up AA and Harrington for Iggy, who left them for nothing. They got the advantage of shedding Harrington's deal, but lost an otherwise long term asset in AA. Negative result/break even.

We gave up the best big man in the game who had given every indication he wanted out, and we've still got Vuc, Harkless, AA and draft picks to come. Our record sucks, but we're rebuilding, so it's to be expected. None of the other teams expected their records to get worse. Best of all, our guys have the potential to improve. That's a positive return in my book.

[RickB-Orlando]

The problem is that your standard of measurment for who "won" the trade isn't shared by many others. Did OKC "win" the Harden trade because OKC had a better record than Houston? I don't think so.

The Magic got the best of the Howard trade because of the value they got in return for the value they sent out in the short term and the long term. I don't think it makes sense to evaluate trades only on the season in which the trade occured, otherwise GM's should never trade a player for a draft pick - even a lotto pick - because the lotto pick is indeterminite and can't help the team win games right then.

Furthermore, the Magic's record before BBD's injury was very respectable so even by your evaluation the Magic could make a strong claim for getting the best out of the trade.

Maybe there is no winner sometimes, but I really think it's silly to say that the team who was worst last year and will be worst again this year won a trade. If people want to re-visit the analysis in a couple years when Vucevic and Harkless are all-stars and Afflalo breaks the 3PT record, I'm cool with that. But saying we won because we have pieces that might be something one day seems illogical.

Given the ages of assets that were exchange, of course this is a deal that can only begin to be fully evaluated in two to three years if that soon. It will take atleast that long to see Vuc and Harkless to evolve into their real
potential, and we still won't know what impact if any those three picks might have-whether that means picks we make or are flipped for other assets. This was a Iong term deal for us that will be reviewed and evaluated repeatedly for years to come. Looking at the current state of the assets, We appear to have wound up with the best assets to come out of the deal.

[TDJacksonville]

anyone have an Idea when the Ultimate Base Roster Mod comes out for NBA 2k13?

[orlando1214]

Here are the new Pelican uniforms, what does everybody on here think of them? Can't say I really like them very much at all. The side design is alright, but apart from that I don't like anything about them. I think the font is way too small and I don't like the number design at all. They just look so simple and boring to me. I know a lot of teams want to have the clean and simple look, but I personally like jerseys to stand out and be unique. I guess this also means that the Magic are officially the only team with pinstripes now since the Bobcats got rid of them last offseason and the Pelicans got rid of them this offseason, so that's pretty awesome if you ask me.

[RickB-Orlando]

Here are the new Pelican uniforms, what does everybody on here think of them? Can't say I really like them very much at all. The side design is alright, but apart from that I don't like anything about them. I think the font is way too small and I don't like the number design at all. They just look so simple and boring to me. I know a lot of teams want to have the clean and simple look, but I personally like jerseys to stand out and be unique. I guess this also means that the Magic are officially the only team with pinstripes now since the Bobcats got rid of them last offseason and the Pelicans got rid of them this offseason, so that's pretty awesome if you ask me.

I find it interesting that the word Pelicans doesn't actually seen to be there anywhere. I guess those are the away Unis.

I'd expect the team name or logo to be on home uniforms.

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[Optimus_Steel]

The pics at first make it seem like they look good but when they actually showed the players wearing them they didn't look good at all.

[Parts Unknown]

I feel like I could've made those unis in any do-it-yourself shirt store on Colonial.

[MagicStarwipe]

They could have come up with something more interesting. And it sucks that v-neck jersey's are still in vogue.

On the subject of jerseys... man these are clean!



We need to go back to these and call it a day. Nobody's topping that design.

[KingRobb02]

anyone have an Idea when the Ultimate Base Roster Mod comes out for NBA 2k13?

what's that?