The Brandon Jennings Conundrum (Day 30)

[Bucksmaniac]

If he would just distribute the ball, play defense and shoot open 3s, he'd be a damn good player. He has the ability to do all of those things... we've seen him do them. He just has no discipline in his game at all. And no right hand, of course.

All very correctable, although I would argue he does distribute the ball, just not enough and is an adequate defender with room to improve. Point is, all of his "flaws" can be worked out with coaching, practice and determination and this is precisely why I want to keep him.

We've been saying that for four years, though. At what point do you just admit as a fan that he is a very flawed player that can get extremely hot and go on a scoring spree every so often?

[engelmartin]

Jennings was not a better defender as a rookie. He used to crumple getting through screens and would bail out going under all the time. Skiles did get his defensive abilities up and he has improved until last year when the wheels came off a bit with Boylan. Overall Jennings is a better player and is improving YoY in all areas despite the basically static statistics. Once he gets his FG% up by improving his shot selection, the reviews of his game will change dramatically. In addition to improved shot selection will come a higher rate of assists and likely a reduction in turnovers, despite being a pretty solid handler. The extreme negativity around this player is unwarranted imo.

Hey Nebs, as the sole Jennings advocate on this board, what kind of contract do you think would be fair for him?

[FemaleDogPlease]

Having him back on the QO wouldn't be bad, assuming we had the intent to trade him. I doubt he'd veto really any deal at this point.

He'd veto a trade because he wont have bird rights on the team he is traded to. Better to play the year out and leave the option open of a sign and trade.

[engelmartin]

Having him back on the QO wouldn't be bad, assuming we had the intent to trade him. I doubt he'd veto really any deal at this point.

He'd veto a trade because he wont have bird rights on the team he is traded to. Better to play the year out and leave the option open of a sign and trade.

So he's got the power to veto trades? I thought he had a standard rookie deal without any amenities or perks.

[Nebula1]

How did they not have a plan concerning Jennings, im confused.. I thought they handled him perfectly this summer.

They gauged where he was in terms of a contract. He said 15MM per... the Bucks ran away from the table and went to Teague and offered him a contract at the value he is worth... ATL matched. If you overpay Teague you create another problem later on... so Im glad they stayed at the 8.

Back to Jennings, If any team wanted to make him an offer they could have. The Bucks waited to see what his fair market value was and no one even picked up this said player that wanted 15MM (who is 23 still). Im glad that the Bucks let other teams set the market for Brandon instead of bidding against themselves. Ironically, not getting Teague likely means we will get Jennings on a one year 4.3 million dollar deal which honestly is not a bad situation for MKE. They can still offer him a contract next year (if he magically matures) or just cut bait with him all together and start fresh at PG through the 2014 draft or Free agency. At this point, no one really has the cap room or want to go out and get Jennings, the Bucks would be wise to just let him come back, drive the tank, shoot as much as he wants - drive up his value and trade him midseason to a team that has an injury at the PG for draft picks.

In the end, Im glad we didn't get Teague. I think this is a much better spot for the stealth tank to get us into that top 5-9 of this upcoming draft. Having Teague probably would have made our team a bit better and put us in that 10-14 range. Hold the line Hambone... let Jennings come in on a QO, piss him off as much as possible and ride that tank!!!

I agree with some of your stuff, but why do the Bucks need to bring him back pissed off on the the QO? I agree Hammond has done a great job being patient and indirectly setting Jennings' value with the Teague offer, but I think it could work out even better by giving Jennings a fair deal and bringing him back happy, but also ready to prove he is who he thinks he is.

I'd much rather have Hammond say Jennings is part of the future of the Bucks in the same notion Sanders, Henson, etc. are and look forward to watching this team grow together.

I think the Bucks must maintain discipline in drafting well and re-signing our 1st round picks to sensible deals. That's how we build a strong program of continuity and longevity.

[FemaleDogPlease]

Having him back on the QO wouldn't be bad, assuming we had the intent to trade him. I doubt he'd veto really any deal at this point.

He'd veto a trade because he wont have bird rights on the team he is traded to. Better to play the year out and leave the option open of a sign and trade.

So he's got the power to veto trades? I thought he had a standard rookie deal without any amenities or perks.

If he accepts the QO he can veto any trade because he the team receiving him loses his bird rights. So they must have the cap space to sign him outright the next summer.

Bucks are better off signing him now and trading him next summer unless they want to be left with nothing.

[Diggr14]

Jennings isnt getting a 5 year deal from anyone.... Bird rights really wont matter.

[Nebula1]

If he would just distribute the ball, play defense and shoot open 3s, he'd be a damn good player. He has the ability to do all of those things... we've seen him do them. He just has no discipline in his game at all. And no right hand, of course.

All very correctable, although I would argue he does distribute the ball, just not enough and is an adequate defender with room to improve. Point is, all of his "flaws" can be worked out with coaching, practice and determination and this is precisely why I want to keep him.

We've been saying that for four years, though. At what point do you just admit as a fan that he is a very flawed player that can get extremely hot and go on a scoring spree every so often?

I don't think he is "very flawed". I think he has some correctable weaknesses in his game and a maturity issue. Both are easily fixable.

He's also very talented and beyond just getting hot and scoring every so often. He's got a good body (no injuries) and his flashes of brilliance are far more intriguing to me than the flashes of lazy/frustrated play. He's a volatile asset and I'm good with a second contract.

Hey Nebs, as the sole Jennings advocate on this board, what kind of contract do you think would be fair for him?

I've said I'd personally go around 8M per but since it's the NBA could understand 10M per. I also don't believe he demanded 15M, but believe 12M as a negotiation starting point. If he's going to stay in Milwaukee he wants to get a premium, which I can understand considering the lack of endorsement opportunity.

But to answer clearly, I think 6-8M per is FMV, but with an NBA/Milwaukee premium could see it move to the 8-10M per range.

Bucks probably offered 7M and Jennings asked 12M and as they negotiate, Jennings' agent is trying to find the best offer outside Milwaukee. I see no hurry in getting the deal done and the delay actually means Milwaukee is being firm with its number while waiting for a match opportunity. If they can't get there, my guess is QO and Jennings leaving.

[Diggr14]

I agree with some of your stuff, but why do the Bucks need to bring him back pissed off on the the QO? I agree Hammond has done a great job being patient and indirectly setting Jennings' value with the Teague offer, but I think it could work out even better by giving Jennings a fair deal and bringing him back happy, but also ready to prove he is who he thinks he is.

I'd much rather have Hammond say Jennings is part of the future of the Bucks in the same notion Sanders, Henson, etc. are and look forward to watching this team grow together.

I think the Bucks must maintain discipline in drafting well and re-signing our 1st round picks to sensible deals. That's how we build a strong program of continuity and longevity.

Jennings hasnt done much to merit a 3 or a 4 year deal to this point. You bring him back and see how he handles the situation. If he comes back and pouts.. whatever... you reset the PG position in the 2014 draft or Free Agency. Im not committing cap space to a malcontent If I were hambone - unless dude comes back under the QO, magically becomes a team player... and exudes leadership that makes you want to invest in him. We have not seen that over the 4 seasons he has been here, and I just dont think his box of marbles is equipped to becoming a team guy... he is a me first guy and will pout if things dont run his way.

[bwpn gold]

Let's face it. The Bucks and BJ are in sell mode. He is clearly not a long-term piece. I presume that Larry Drew would tell you that over a couple of beers.

I think of BJ as the overpriced house that has been on the market too long. I really want to sell that house, but my spouse won't let me reduce the price. It is getting really stale.

What do you do? You take it off the market and add a coat of paint and maybe wood floors and put it back on the market in 6 months and hope that the market improves.

Doesn't the QO seem inevitable? BJ needs to add that coat of paint and wood floors through much better play.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Jennings isnt getting a 5 year deal from anyone.... Bird rights really wont matter.

teams against the cap could resign him if they have bird rights. those are mostly the competitive large market teams hed want too. bird rights absolutely do matter for brandon if he wants a deal in the 10-12 million range.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

i think the bucks need to compromise here if jennings is willing too as well. i say if jennings can accept a fmv deal at about 4/24.... then we humble ourselves and let the team know hes "the man". "the man on a small make good deal" if you will.

[FemaleDogPlease]

Let's face it. The Bucks and BJ are in sell mode. He is clearly not a long-term piece. I presume that Larry Drew would tell you that over a couple of beers.

I think of BJ as the overpriced house that has been on the market too long. I really want to sell that house, but my spouse won't let me reduce the price. It is getting really stale.

What do you do? You take it off the market and add a coat of paint and maybe wood floors and put it back on the market in 6 months and hope that the market improves.

Doesn't the QO seem inevitable? BJ needs to add that coat of paint and wood floors through much better play.

The QO is the worse possible outcome for the Bucks. They wont be able to trade him without his permission. Assuming he plays well they will lose him for nothing. If he plays well they will likely make the playoffs so that means no high draft pick. So the Bucks would have limited cap space along with a non lottery pick and looking to fill a huge hole at PG.

Makes little sense to lose a prospect you have developed for 4 years for nothing. Better to do like Denver did Affalo and Nene. Sign Jennings to deal of 10-12 million per and try to trade him to get value back at the deadline or over the summer.

[Nebula1]

I can't wait until Sanders' production slips a bit and he remains hot-headed. Then we can start reading about people bitching about Sanders being too old, a bad character, a flawed leader, hasn't improved, blah blah we should offer him only scraps to return.

[SkilesTheLimit]

I can't wait until Sanders' production slips a bit and he remains hot-headed. Then we can start reading about people bitching about Sanders being too old, a bad character, a flawed leader, hasn't improved, blah blah we should offer him only scraps to return.

Sanders has shown improvement (vast improvement) in his game since he was a rookie. Jennings' game has not improved in any way since his rookie season.

[bwpn gold]

Let's face it. The Bucks and BJ are in sell mode. He is clearly not a long-term piece. I presume that Larry Drew would tell you that over a couple of beers.

I think of BJ as the overpriced house that has been on the market too long. I really want to sell that house, but my spouse won't let me reduce the price. It is getting really stale.

What do you do? You take it off the market and add a coat of paint and maybe wood floors and put it back on the market in 6 months and hope that the market improves.

Doesn't the QO seem inevitable? BJ needs to add that coat of paint and wood floors through much better play.

The QO is the worse possible outcome for the Bucks. They wont be able to trade him without his permission. Assuming he plays well they will lose him for nothing. If he plays well they will likely make the playoffs so that means no high draft pick. So the Bucks would have limited cap space along with a non lottery pick and looking to fill a huge hole at PG.

Makes little sense to lose a prospect you have developed for 4 years for nothing. Better to do like Denver did Affalo and Nene. Sign Jennings to deal of 10-12 million per and try to trade him to get value back at the deadline or over the summer.

I agree that it is a terrible outcome, but it beats overpaying BJ when both sides clearly need a break from one another. I just don't see why another team would take on an overpaid (and unhappy) Brandon Jennings.

[HurricaneKid]

All very correctable, although I would argue he does distribute the ball, just not enough and is an adequate defender with room to improve. Point is, all of his "flaws" can be worked out with coaching, practice and determination and this is precisely why I want to keep him.

So a player who was a better defender at 19 and 20 than he was at 21 and 22, a player who has not only NOT DEVELOPED, but actually REGRESSED, should be rewarded due to his upside? That is some crazy rationalizing.

You CAN'T have the highest paid player on your team be a guy who doesn't get better. The example that sets for the team is horrifying.

Jennings was not a better defender as a rookie. He used to crumple getting through screens and would bail out going under all the time. Skiles did get his defensive abilities up and he has improved until last year when the wheels came off a bit with Boylan. Overall Jennings is a better player and is improving YoY in all areas despite the basically static statistics. Once he gets his FG% up by improving his shot selection, the reviews of his game will change dramatically. In addition to improved shot selection will come a higher rate of assists and likely a reduction in turnovers, despite being a pretty solid handler. The extreme negativity around this player is unwarranted imo.

Yes. He was. And significantly better at that. Especially in his second year. Not only is his DRTG a full 5 points lower, his more advanced metrics were significantly better. Last year Milwaukee allowed 99.5pts/48 minutes with him off the floor and 108.7 when he was on it. Considering some of that alternative time was Redick, thats appalling. He was only -.2 in his 2nd season as a 20 yr old. The most mindblowing stat is that not only were they that much worse defensively with him on the floor but they were also 3.8pts worse offensively. In fact, for the season, Milw was -286 with him on the floor and a remarkable +163 with him off it. That is one of the most alarming +/- I have ever seen.

[Ron Swanson]

Let's face it. The Bucks and BJ are in sell mode. He is clearly not a long-term piece. I presume that Larry Drew would tell you that over a couple of beers.

I think of BJ as the overpriced house that has been on the market too long. I really want to sell that house, but my spouse won't let me reduce the price. It is getting really stale.

What do you do? You take it off the market and add a coat of paint and maybe wood floors and put it back on the market in 6 months and hope that the market improves.

Doesn't the QO seem inevitable? BJ needs to add that coat of paint and wood floors through much better play.

The QO is the worse possible outcome for the Bucks. They wont be able to trade him without his permission. Assuming he plays well they will lose him for nothing. If he plays well they will likely make the playoffs so that means no high draft pick. So the Bucks would have limited cap space along with a non lottery pick and looking to fill a huge hole at PG.

Makes little sense to lose a prospect you have developed for 4 years for nothing. Better to do like Denver did Affalo and Nene. Sign Jennings to deal of 10-12 million per and try to trade him to get value back at the deadline or over the summer.

I agree that it is a terrible outcome, but it beats overpaying BJ when both sides clearly need a break from one another. I just don't see why another team would take on an overpaid (and unhappy) Brandon Jennings.

I really think the best case scenario is that we offer him the QO, he takes it, and proceeds to put up some impressive yet empty stats on a team that loses a lot of games (give him the green light every night and hope he gets "hot"), then flip him at the deadline for a draft pick. However, I have next to no faith in Hammond to be able to actually pull off a competent deal at the deadline, so I'd prefer we just cut ties now.

[eagle13]

We can count on 1 team being anxious to unload 1 player at the deadline and would take BJ for him- Dallas- Ellis.

[HurricaneKid]

QO is ideal to me. There obviously isn't any market for him and no one is going to give up assets AND give in to his salary demands. And I sure don't want a guy that takes us from a 2SRS to a -2.5SRS to get a big contract.

So you get him for 1 year where he is highly motivated and you only have to pay 4.5MM. I sure don't see any better options out there at this point.