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Norseman79 wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:
Ok, so we are on the same page. I said realistically it's DD, Dilly, TSJ and a pick if they think Haliburton will be back soon.

And that would be a horrendous trade to get freaking Nembhard. Any trade being proposed for Nembhard would be a horrendous trade. I wouldn't trade DDV or TSJ straight up for Nembhard. He doesn't move any needles IMO.

Just depends on how you view him. I certainly agree with you if you don't see Nembhard as an improvement. Just out of curiosity, who would you want that is realistically attainable?

Norseman79 wrote:

minimus wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:
Moving the needle compared to what we have, not blowing things up to go land a tre young or anything stupid like that.

Nembhard, Sexton, D Murray, etc...

LaMelo Ball, Sexton, D Murray are exactly those players who you trade for while being in panic mode aka desperate

I wouldn't touch Ball if they offered him for a 2nd rounder. I would do a Sexton for DDV swap, and D. Murray if healthy I do Randle for all day. That's me.

KGdaBom wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:And that would be a horrendous trade to get freaking Nembhard. Any trade being proposed for Nembhard would be a horrendous trade. I wouldn't trade DDV or TSJ straight up for Nembhard. He doesn't move any needles IMO.

Just depends on how you view him. I certainly agree with you if you don't see Nembhard as an improvement. Just out of curiosity, who would you want that is realistically attainable?

I don't know. I haven't looked into who is realistically obtainable. Maybe the unicorn of a fully healthy prime DeJounte Murray, but that doesn't exist and likely never will.

minimus wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:

minimus wrote:
LaMelo Ball, Sexton, D Murray are exactly those players who you trade for while being in panic mode aka desperate

I wouldn't touch Ball if they offered him for a 2nd rounder. I would do a Sexton for DDV swap, and D. Murray if healthy I do Randle for all day. That's me.

I dont see MIN succeed with Sexton or Murray. Randle had played under Finch command in NOP, Randle was ASG player, and more importantly offers some positional versatility as slasher, passer and physical player. All three skills helped MIN in playoffs. In some sense Towns - Randle trade gave us minimal continuity. Both Towns and Randle has been elite among bigmen at driving to the rim, while Randle has better AST:TO ratio than Towns when drives to the basket

Neither Sexton nor Murray is a good passer nor decision maker. Both are low efficiency scorers, both are not natural shooters. DJM AAV is 30 (!!!) mil, Sexton AAV is 18 mil. I'd rather have Donte + Rob + Conley instead of DJM, or Donte + Rob instead of Sexton. But that's me.

P.S. Not to mention questionable DJM behaviour off the floor. This alone would give me a strong reason to stay away from him.

Norseman79 wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:
Just depends on how you view him. I certainly agree with you if you don't see Nembhard as an improvement. Just out of curiosity, who would you want that is realistically attainable?

I don't know. I haven't looked into who is realistically obtainable. Maybe the unicorn of a fully healthy prime DeJounte Murray, but that doesn't exist and likely never will.

You are that confident and certain that Mike and Rob are the guy? Cool. I wish I could be as well. I do hope you are right, I just want a championship. Playoffs are nice, but teams with a pulse and halfway decent roster should make it.

Norseman79 wrote:

minimus wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:
I wouldn't touch Ball if they offered him for a 2nd rounder. I would do a Sexton for DDV swap, and D. Murray if healthy I do Randle for all day. That's me.

I dont see MIN succeed with Sexton or Murray. Randle had played under Finch command in NOP, Randle was ASG player, and more importantly offers some positional versatility as slasher, passer and physical player. All three skills helped MIN in playoffs. In some sense Towns - Randle trade gave us minimal continuity. Both Towns and Randle has been elite among bigmen at driving to the rim, while Randle has better AST:TO ratio than Towns when drives to the basket

Neither Sexton nor Murray is a good passer nor decision maker. Both are low efficiency scorers, both are not natural shooters. DJM AAV is 30 (!!!) mil, Sexton AAV is 18 mil. I'd rather have Donte + Rob + Conley instead of DJM, or Donte + Rob instead of Sexton. But that's me.

P.S. Not to mention questionable DJM behaviour off the floor. This alone would give me a strong reason to stay away from him.

And how was Randle at handling pressure while ball handling? Setting up the offense to ensure a good look? Creating looks for other guys? Randle played well, no denying that, but where was this in New York and every other place he played? If Randle can change why not others?

I have no problem ditching Randle, I have no faith in him. Rob looks like a bust. If you didn't know who he was and watched summer league, you would likely think that little guy is pretty quick, he could make the g league team. DDV, again, hopefully he has a better year backing up Edwards, but, as it looks, TSJ should lockdown backup SG/SF spot, though his handle is sketchy.

Fact is simple, our point guards suck. Who people want, who is attainable, who makes sense...all opinion. What's not is if they need to address it. Lots of time though.

Klomp wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:I don't know. I haven't looked into who is realistically obtainable. Maybe the unicorn of a fully healthy prime DeJounte Murray, but that doesn't exist and likely never will.

You are that confident and certain that Mike and Rob are the guy? Cool. I wish I could be as well. I do hope you are right, I just want a championship. Playoffs are nice, but teams with a pulse and halfway decent roster should make it.

Honestly, it's OK to not have "the guy" at every position.

Is Mike "the guy"? No. Is Rob "the guy"? Probably not, and certainly not this year. Does that mean the team should rob Peter to pay Paul, for lack of a better expression? I don't believe so.

I want a championship too. But I don't want to force it, in a way that drastically shifts the team dynamic to where they'd have to blow it back up a year later. Let's continue to grow this thing organically.

minimus wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:

minimus wrote:
I dont see MIN succeed with Sexton or Murray. Randle had played under Finch command in NOP, Randle was ASG player, and more importantly offers some positional versatility as slasher, passer and physical player. All three skills helped MIN in playoffs. In some sense Towns - Randle trade gave us minimal continuity. Both Towns and Randle has been elite among bigmen at driving to the rim, while Randle has better AST:TO ratio than Towns when drives to the basket

Neither Sexton nor Murray is a good passer nor decision maker. Both are low efficiency scorers, both are not natural shooters. DJM AAV is 30 (!!!) mil, Sexton AAV is 18 mil. I'd rather have Donte + Rob + Conley instead of DJM, or Donte + Rob instead of Sexton. But that's me.

P.S. Not to mention questionable DJM behaviour off the floor. This alone would give me a strong reason to stay away from him.

And how was Randle at handling pressure while ball handling? Setting up the offense to ensure a good look? Creating looks for other guys? Randle played well, no denying that, but where was this in New York and every other place he played? If Randle can change why not others?

I have no problem ditching Randle, I have no faith in him. Rob looks like a bust. If you didn't know who he was and watched summer league, you would likely think that little guy is pretty quick, he could make the g league team. DDV, again, hopefully he has a better year backing up Edwards, but, as it looks, TSJ should lockdown backup SG/SF spot, though his handle is sketchy.

Fact is simple, our point guards suck. Who people want, who is attainable, who makes sense...all opinion. What's not is if they need to address it. Lots of time though.

Well. First off all, I am not a big fan of Randle. He is not an ideal player and not an fit here. But he offers some continuity, and positional versatility. I see that you have no problem ditching him, but almost every proposed here trade (including MANY my trade ideas) dont make MIN a better team. Second, I would call Rob a bust after one development year. Finally, I'd NOT do any trade in panic mode, I keep believing in this team. If you trade in panic mode, you lose. From what I see our FO and coaching staff have faith in this guys.

Norseman79 wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:
Just depends on how you view him. I certainly agree with you if you don't see Nembhard as an improvement. Just out of curiosity, who would you want that is realistically attainable?

I don't know. I haven't looked into who is realistically obtainable. Maybe the unicorn of a fully healthy prime DeJounte Murray, but that doesn't exist and likely never will.

You are that confident and certain that Mike and Rob are the guy? Cool. I wish I could be as well. I do hope you are right, I just want a championship. Playoffs are nice, but teams with a pulse and halfway decent roster should make it.

KGdaBom wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:I don't know. I haven't looked into who is realistically obtainable. Maybe the unicorn of a fully healthy prime DeJounte Murray, but that doesn't exist and likely never will.

You are that confident and certain that Mike and Rob are the guy? Cool. I wish I could be as well. I do hope you are right, I just want a championship. Playoffs are nice, but teams with a pulse and halfway decent roster should make it.

I'm not that confident that Dilly and Mike will be as good as I would like, but I'm not going to give away DDV, TSJ, Dilly and Draft picks for a mediocre PG like Nembhard. Even if he Solves our PG "problem" trading those guys and a pick just creates other problems.
Playoffs are 50/50 or better if you count making the play in. Teams that lose in the Conference finals finished in a tie for 3rd out of 30 teams. The top 10%. I want it all, but even making a finals for the first time would be nice.

Klomp wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:
You are that confident and certain that Mike and Rob are the guy? Cool. I wish I could be as well. I do hope you are right, I just want a championship. Playoffs are nice, but teams with a pulse and halfway decent roster should make it.

I'm not that confident that Dilly and Mike will be as good as I would like, but I'm not going to give away DDV, TSJ, Dilly and Draft picks for a mediocre PG like Nembhard. Even if he Solves our PG "problem" trading those guys and a pick just creates other problems.
Playoffs are 50/50 or better if you count making the play in. Teams that lose in the Conference finals finished in a tie for 3rd out of 30 teams. The top 10%. I want it all, but even making a finals for the first time would be nice.

I will say this....I don't think Nembhard is a mediocre PG. I actually really like the Aaron Gordon comparison made elsewhere.

Here's the problem though: Indiana is not Orlando. This wouldn't be a situation of buying a former No. 2 overall pick for a good value price from a floundering team. This would be trading with a NBA Finals team for a home-grown starter and a valuable rotation piece. Nembhard's trade value won't ever get much higher than it is right now, unless he has a Jalen Brunson-like jump this year with Haliburton injured, or if we think he has hidden Jalen Brunson-like star potential. This is the wrong guy to target in a trade, even if he represents the kind of trade we want to make. Like I said previously, it would be like someone trying to trade for Naz Reid or Jaden McDaniels.

Norseman79 wrote:

Klomp wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:I'm not that confident that Dilly and Mike will be as good as I would like, but I'm not going to give away DDV, TSJ, Dilly and Draft picks for a mediocre PG like Nembhard. Even if he Solves our PG "problem" trading those guys and a pick just creates other problems.
Playoffs are 50/50 or better if you count making the play in. Teams that lose in the Conference finals finished in a tie for 3rd out of 30 teams. The top 10%. I want it all, but even making a finals for the first time would be nice.

I will say this....I don't think Nembhard is a mediocre PG. I actually really like the Aaron Gordon comparison made elsewhere.

Here's the problem though: Indiana is not Orlando. This wouldn't be a situation of buying a former No. 2 overall pick for a good value price from a floundering team. This would be trading with a NBA Finals team for a home-grown starter and a valuable rotation piece. Nembhard's trade value won't ever get much higher than it is right now, unless he has a Jalen Brunson-like jump this year with Haliburton injured, or if we think he has hidden Jalen Brunson-like star potential. This is the wrong guy to target in a trade, even if he represents the kind of trade we want to make. Like I said previously, it would be like someone trying to trade for Naz Reid or Jaden McDaniels.

That is a very reasonable take and I agree. I mean, if I liked Randle more and he was 26, I would be thrilled to move Naz for Nembhard, that being said, Ant would not approve nor the fan base. I do actually think Nembhard is about to blow up with Haliburton out.

Curious, do you think DD and Dilly combined would be enough to improve our PG position through a trade? Not for some old ass veteran on his way down either.

Norseman79 wrote:

Klomp wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:I'm not that confident that Dilly and Mike will be as good as I would like, but I'm not going to give away DDV, TSJ, Dilly and Draft picks for a mediocre PG like Nembhard. Even if he Solves our PG "problem" trading those guys and a pick just creates other problems.
Playoffs are 50/50 or better if you count making the play in. Teams that lose in the Conference finals finished in a tie for 3rd out of 30 teams. The top 10%. I want it all, but even making a finals for the first time would be nice.

I will say this....I don't think Nembhard is a mediocre PG. I actually really like the Aaron Gordon comparison made elsewhere.

Here's the problem though: Indiana is not Orlando. This wouldn't be a situation of buying a former No. 2 overall pick for a good value price from a floundering team. This would be trading with a NBA Finals team for a home-grown starter and a valuable rotation piece. Nembhard's trade value won't ever get much higher than it is right now, unless he has a Jalen Brunson-like jump this year with Haliburton injured, or if we think he has hidden Jalen Brunson-like star potential. This is the wrong guy to target in a trade, even if he represents the kind of trade we want to make. Like I said previously, it would be like someone trying to trade for Naz Reid or Jaden McDaniels.

That is a very reasonable take and I agree. I mean, if I liked Randle more and he was 26, I would be thrilled to move Naz for Nembhard, that being said, Ant would not approve nor the fan base. I do actually think Nembhard is about to blow up with Haliburton out.

Curious, do you think DD and Dilly combined would be enough to improve our PG position through a trade? Not for some old ass veteran on his way down either.

KGdaBom wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:

Klomp wrote:I will say this....I don't think Nembhard is a mediocre PG. I actually really like the Aaron Gordon comparison made elsewhere.

Here's the problem though: Indiana is not Orlando. This wouldn't be a situation of buying a former No. 2 overall pick for a good value price from a floundering team. This would be trading with a NBA Finals team for a home-grown starter and a valuable rotation piece. Nembhard's trade value won't ever get much higher than it is right now, unless he has a Jalen Brunson-like jump this year with Haliburton injured, or if we think he has hidden Jalen Brunson-like star potential. This is the wrong guy to target in a trade, even if he represents the kind of trade we want to make. Like I said previously, it would be like someone trying to trade for Naz Reid or Jaden McDaniels.

That is a very reasonable take and I agree. I mean, if I liked Randle more and he was 26, I would be thrilled to move Naz for Nembhard, that being said, Ant would not approve nor the fan base. I do actually think Nembhard is about to blow up with Haliburton out.

Curious, do you think DD and Dilly combined would be enough to improve our PG position through a trade? Not for some old ass veteran on his way down either.

To me DDV is very similar as a player to Naz and is valued around the league similar to Naz. Pretty much 6 of one half dozen of the other.

Klomp wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:
That is a very reasonable take and I agree. I mean, if I liked Randle more and he was 26, I would be thrilled to move Naz for Nembhard, that being said, Ant would not approve nor the fan base. I do actually think Nembhard is about to blow up with Haliburton out.

Curious, do you think DD and Dilly combined would be enough to improve our PG position through a trade? Not for some old ass veteran on his way down either.

To me DDV is very similar as a player to Naz and is valued around the league similar to Naz. Pretty much 6 of one half dozen of the other.

I'm honestly a little shocked at how down the fan base is about him.

There were 26 players who averaged 7.0 or more 3-point attempts per game in 2024-25. Only 5 of them had a better 3-point percentage than DiVincenzo. It's also important to remember that he did that while playing on a contract that's roughly 75% of the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. He represents excellent value.

Norseman79 wrote:I am not down on DDV, I'm down on current roster construction. I think DDV has value and we could miss his shooting.

But....

PG - Conley (24), Dilly (24)
SG - Ant (35), TSJ (13)
SF - McDaniels (35), TSJ (13)
PF - Randle (30), Naz (18)
C. - Gobert (25), Berringer (13), Naz (10)

9 man rotation, DD would be 10....whose minutes does he take? And would he be happy with those minutes?

Klomp wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:I am not down on DDV, I'm down on current roster construction. I think DDV has value and we could miss his shooting.

But....

PG - Conley (24), Dilly (24)
SG - Ant (35), TSJ (13)
SF - McDaniels (35), TSJ (13)
PF - Randle (30), Naz (18)
C. - Gobert (25), Berringer (13), Naz (10)

9 man rotation, DD would be 10....whose minutes does he take? And would he be happy with those minutes?

Giving Dillingham and Shannon each a guaranteed 24 minutes is a good place to start, as is giving Beringer 13 minutes even.

I would probably drop those three from a combined 61 minutes to more like 35 minutes total. Hey look, another 26 minutes became available!

Norseman79 wrote:

minimus wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:
And how was Randle at handling pressure while ball handling? Setting up the offense to ensure a good look? Creating looks for other guys? Randle played well, no denying that, but where was this in New York and every other place he played? If Randle can change why not others?

I have no problem ditching Randle, I have no faith in him. Rob looks like a bust. If you didn't know who he was and watched summer league, you would likely think that little guy is pretty quick, he could make the g league team. DDV, again, hopefully he has a better year backing up Edwards, but, as it looks, TSJ should lockdown backup SG/SF spot, though his handle is sketchy.

Fact is simple, our point guards suck. Who people want, who is attainable, who makes sense...all opinion. What's not is if they need to address it. Lots of time though.

Well. First off all, I am not a big fan of Randle. He is not an ideal player and not an fit here. But he offers some continuity, and positional versatility. I see that you have no problem ditching him, but almost every proposed here trade (including MANY my trade ideas) dont make MIN a better team. Second, I would call Rob a bust after one development year. Finally, I'd NOT do any trade in panic mode, I keep believing in this team. If you trade in panic mode, you lose. From what I see our FO and coaching staff have faith in this guys.

Who is panicking? The current roster is good enough to make the playoffs. If you make the playoffs anything can happen. I just like to maximize a roster and players, I don't think we are doing either by not having better PG play.

minimus wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:

minimus wrote:
Well. First off all, I am not a big fan of Randle. He is not an ideal player and not an fit here. But he offers some continuity, and positional versatility. I see that you have no problem ditching him, but almost every proposed here trade (including MANY my trade ideas) dont make MIN a better team. Second, I would call Rob a bust after one development year. Finally, I'd NOT do any trade in panic mode, I keep believing in this team. If you trade in panic mode, you lose. From what I see our FO and coaching staff have faith in this guys.

Who is panicking? The current roster is good enough to make the playoffs. If you make the playoffs anything can happen. I just like to maximize a roster and players, I don't think we are doing either by not having better PG play.

Trading for someone like Sexton or Murray is, to me, an example of panicking. But the root cause of the debate is really about how people evaluate both our situation and those players.

Here’s my view:

First, neither of them is a true point guard. They’re the same archetype as Jordan Poole or Anfernee Simons: undersized shooting guards with little to no defense.
- Sexton is simply a bad defender.
- Murray used to have an elite defender reputation — but that was a long time ago.
- Just look at Dyson Daniels in ATL: he’s the one who looks like an elite defender there now, while Murray hasn’t impressed.

Second, both are worse players than Randle. Significantly worse.
- Utah literally paid to move Sexton’s contract.
- Murray tore his Achilles, and he doesn’t have the shooting to come back like KD did after his injury.
- Years ago, before that injury, Murray earning $18 million was fine. At $30 million, he’s arguably a negative asset. Although Murray had long injury list even before Achilles torn

So there’s really no good reason to trade for them. I’d much rather invest that time and those minutes into Rob’s development and Randle’s role:

Rob is:
- Very young
- Relatively cheap
- Has the potential to be a better passer and scorer than either Sexton or Murray

Randle is:
- Physical, strong, with legit post-up scoring
- Can create his own shot and make kick-out passes
- Healthy
- On an adequate contract
- Fully bought in to MIN’s defensive and offensive identity
- A true professional with coaches and teammates

Rob and Randle represent the front office’s commitment to continuity — building a competitive, healthy, winning environment to develop players.

DDV is also a winning player on a bargain contract. Even if the fit isn’t perfect, the main idea in MIN is to build something special through adversity.

That’s why I’d rather give a raw, lightning-quick guard (Rob), an unconventional point-forward (Randle as a secondary option), and a gritty combo guard a real chance — instead of tearing down what’s being built to bring in another scorer in a PG’s body.

Sexton and Murray both represent failed development projects from tanking, losing, rebuilding teams. Sure, you can hope they’d look better in MIN — but the price you pay for that gamble is someone like Randle or Dillingham.

And let’s ask honestly:
- How would Dillingham look if he were in UTA right now with a green light to shoot every time?
- And how would 6’1” Sexton get hunted on defense in the playoffs if he were here in MIN?

Norseman79 wrote:

minimus wrote:

Norseman79 wrote:
I wouldn't touch Ball if they offered him for a 2nd rounder. I would do a Sexton for DDV swap, and D. Murray if healthy I do Randle for all day. That's me.

I dont see MIN succeed with Sexton or Murray. Randle had played under Finch command in NOP, Randle was ASG player, and more importantly offers some positional versatility as slasher, passer and physical player. All three skills helped MIN in playoffs. In some sense Towns - Randle trade gave us minimal continuity. Both Towns and Randle has been elite among bigmen at driving to the rim, while Randle has better AST:TO ratio than Towns when drives to the basket

Neither Sexton nor Murray is a good passer nor decision maker. Both are low efficiency scorers, both are not natural shooters. DJM AAV is 30 (!!!) mil, Sexton AAV is 18 mil. I'd rather have Donte + Rob + Conley instead of DJM, or Donte + Rob instead of Sexton. But that's me.

P.S. Not to mention questionable DJM behaviour off the floor. This alone would give me a strong reason to stay away from him.

And how was Randle at handling pressure while ball handling? Setting up the offense to ensure a good look? Creating looks for other guys? Randle played well, no denying that, but where was this in New York and every other place he played? If Randle can change why not others?